We hear them all the time. The myths, anecdotes, and plain old nonsense surrounding cars, particularly from "non-car" people. What are some of the common myths you hear concerning cars?
I'll get the ball rolling with this myth I hear time and time again...
Myth: "Toyotas and Hondas are the only reliable cars and everything else is garbage."
Seriously, I hear this one from an alarming number of people who should know better. Because I am known as the "Car Guy" among my circle of friends, acquaintances, relatives, and coworkers, I am often asked to give my opinion on someone's potential car purchasing decisions. More often than not, I find they really don't want my suggestions or advice, they really only want me to validate the choice they have already made. That choice, typically, is either a Toyota or a Honda. On many occasions when I have suggested alternatives which may have offered better value or is better suited their needs, I get a response that goes something like "Oh, I would never consider anything other than a Toyota or Honda. Other cars just break down all the time."
This is why I no longer give car buying advice to anyone and, if they ask why, I will tell them.
Over to you guys. What are the common automotive myths you hear on a regular basis?
"They said my car would be protected forever if I paid them $2,000 for the Super Duper Bullshit Protection Package when I bought my new car."
*pukes in detailer*
"New cars are better than used cars..."
This is really a myth. Some cars offer more technology than older/used vehicles, but they are not inherently better for a variety of reasons. Unless someone plans on putting down I believe 20% down on a new vehicle, they are going to be committing more resources than they would if they bought used monthly. That peace of mind can be nice while the warranty is running, but in some cases, the amount of down payment (20% on a 40k would be 8k). You can invest 8k into a variety of nicely, gently used vehicles between 15-20k, have a lower monthly payment, and not have huge ticket repairs as some older cars are much easier to work on and have lower maintenance costs.
Bottom Line: A "new" car is not always the best financial decision and a "new" car is not always better for your needs.
Manual transmission cars use less gas than automatics. With electronically-controlled multi-ratio auto transmissions... not true anymore.
Save brakes by always dropping to a low gear going downhill. Now only partially true, maybe on long steep descents, but modern disc brakes are far more effective than before, and it now takes serious work to induce brake fade.
I need an SUV because I feel more secure, give space for the kids, so I can see what's going on, and because they're better off road. Buy a minivan and raise your fucking seat height, you'll still be cocooned in airbags, minivans give you much more kid space and have a nice low center of gravity. And you never drive off road.
I need AWD for wet & snowy weather. Just no. The AWD will engage maybe twice in five years. And on the remote chance that you'll actually be out driving in snow, stick to 2WD & buy some decent snow tires. They'll be on sale because of low demand... what with global warming.
I do need a big truck so I can stand a chance to win against speeding traffic. I am more safe, until I roll over.
I do need 4WD to get over the snow mountain that the plows leave at the end of my driveway. Otherwise, it is useless weight and drivetrain losses.
Toyotas are the most reliable. Or, at least, they were for a long time.
I save my brakes by not coming to a dead sudden stop after high speed braking (by paying attention and planning well in advance, duh). That's what burns pad material into the rotor (or whatever) and causes runout ("warping").
Turbocharging = free power and better MPG.
EVs are better for the environment.
Higher octane fuel = higher quality fuel.
MPGe actually represents a way to compare EVs to ICE
Quote from: r0tor on September 20, 2023, 01:02:15 PMMPGe actually represents a way to compare EVs to ICE
This one drives me nuts. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
I think a better sticker would indicate the number of miles driven before the car becomes more efficient than a comparable ICE counterpart? e.g. "This MIDSIZE SUV will have lower overall emissions than a gasoline equivalent after _35,000_ miles."
Quote from: Laconian on September 20, 2023, 01:15:57 PMThis one drives me nuts. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
I think a better sticker would indicate the number of miles driven before the car becomes more efficient than a comparable ICE counterpart? e.g. "This MIDSIZE SUV will have lower overall emissions than a gasoline equivalent after _35,000_ miles."
The MPGe calc should reflect not how many KWs are the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gas, but overall in the US on average how many KWs of fuel was burned to deliver the equivalent KW of that 1 gallon of gas.
If you treat nuclear fuel rods and renewables as free energy, my guess is MPGe numbers get cut by 30-40%. So a 100MPGe EV is probably more like 65 MPGe actual.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 20, 2023, 12:31:08 PMTurbocharging = free power and better MPG.
EVs are better for the environment.
Higher octane fuel = higher quality fuel.
The turbocharging comment is right on the money. I can personally attest to this.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 20, 2023, 03:30:41 PMThe turbocharging comment is right on the money. I can personally attest to this.
I think every turbocharged owner can. Any MPG improvement that may be seen is due to weight savings and ancillary items such as better aero and more tranny speeds.
For example, in the excellent video below, GM's 2.7T strategy is explored. In short, it will replace the base 5.3L V8 - it will get better MPG but because it is a much smaller and lighter package. Similarly, the 2.7T will be used in many applications - work trucks, sports sedans, pickups, etc. All variations, from 230 hp to 320 hp, will use the same block and internals, cylinder head and turbo. What differs is the externals such as water pump, transmission and engine tuning. Such scale is impossible with a N/A mill (GM's pooprod V8 differed wildly between vehicles and applications, despite overall design sameness).
Don't know, my 320hp terwbow 4 AWD family sedan gets 38mpg on trips... seems to work for me
So you're saying I should turbo TUNDRA... for the MPG.
Quote from: r0tor on September 20, 2023, 04:46:27 PMDon't know, my 320hp terwbow 4 AWD family sedan gets 38mpg on trips... seems to work for me
Uh, if only: 24.8 mpg: https://www.fuelly.com/car/alfa_romeo/giulia/2018?engineconfig_id=13&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=
Quote from: GoCougs on September 20, 2023, 06:39:35 PMUh, if only: 24.8 mpg: https://www.fuelly.com/car/alfa_romeo/giulia/2018?engineconfig_id=13&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=
If it's on the internet - it must be true
Quote from: GoCougs on September 20, 2023, 04:06:13 PMI think every turbocharged owner can. Any MPG improvement that may be seen is due to weight savings and ancillary items such as better aero and more tranny speeds.
For example, in the excellent video below, GM's 2.7T strategy is explored. In short, it will replace the base 5.3L V8 - it will get better MPG but because it is a much smaller and lighter package. Similarly, the 2.7T will be used in many applications - work trucks, sports sedans, pickups, etc. All variations, from 230 hp to 320 hp, will use the same block and internals, cylinder head and turbo. What differs is the externals such as water pump, transmission and engine tuning. Such scale is impossible with a N/A mill (GM's pooprod V8 differed wildly between vehicles and applications, despite overall design sameness).
The NA CX-5 I'm renting here in California is a more pleasant drive than my own turbocharged one, despite being well down on power and torques. It uses substantially less petrol too.
But on the occasions when I feel a bit yobbish, my one is nice for bolting past slowpokes on rural roads.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 20, 2023, 10:47:41 PMThe NA CX-5 I'm renting here in California is a more pleasant drive than my own turbocharged one, despite being well down on power and torques. It uses substantially less petrol too.
But on the occasions when I feel a bit yobbish, my one is nice for bolting past slowpokes on rural roads.
A few months ago I drove my parents new-ish Outback w/the base N/A 4. Dat throttle response - holy hell it was like I was driving an F1 car compared to the SQ5. So much more sprightly in the first 1/4 of throttle travel despite having only a fraction of the power.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 20, 2023, 10:54:07 PMA few months ago I drove my parents new-ish Outback w/the base N/A 4. Dat throttle response - holy hell it was like I was driving an F1 car compared to the SQ5. So much more sprightly in the first 1/4 of throttle travel despite having only a fraction of the power.
You should try a TUNDRA. Car next to you runs over a piece of newspaper, your right foot twitches imperceptibly, and TUNDRA's traction control is already kicking in.
pedal response and "feel" don't always equate to "better" or "fast".
Currently driving my parents' 2-3yr old Pilot. On paper it has quite a bit more power than our Honda minivan but you really have to push the pedal to get it to go.
VERY opposite the twitchy at the beginning feel on the Toyotas I've driven.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 21, 2023, 06:35:13 AMpedal response and "feel" don't always equate to "better" or "fast".
Currently driving my parents' 2-3yr old Pilot. On paper it has quite a bit more power than our Honda minivan but you really have to push the pedal to get it to go.
VERY opposite the twitchy at the beginning feel on the Toyotas I've driven.
Most newer cars that I've driven have very slow throttle tip-in. I assume it is for the MPGEEZ. I am fine with that. There is no EFI engine that can match the natural throttle response of a well-tuned carburetor, though.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 20, 2023, 10:54:07 PMA few months ago I drove my parents new-ish Outback w/the base N/A 4. Dat throttle response - holy hell it was like I was driving an F1 car compared to the SQ5. So much more sprightly in the first 1/4 of throttle travel despite having only a fraction of the power.
I don't think I could call anything attached to that CVT responsive :lol:
In general, I prefer the throttle response of an N/A motor over the outright power of a turboed car. Give me an EV for daily commuting appliance, and a manual + N/A motor for fun. Down with automatics, DSGs, and CVTs!
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 21, 2023, 06:35:13 AMpedal response and "feel" don't always equate to "better" or "fast".
Currently driving my parents' 2-3yr old Pilot. On paper it has quite a bit more power than our Honda minivan but you really have to push the pedal to get it to go.
VERY opposite the twitchy at the beginning feel on the Toyotas I've driven.
Welcome in the massive amounts of village idiots that buy pedal tuners thinking it somehow makes their car faster when 30% throttle is WOT
Quote from: r0tor on September 21, 2023, 08:06:52 AMWelcome in the massive amounts of village idiots that buy pedal tuners thinking it somehow makes their car faster when 30% throttle is WOT
I want a pedal tuner to detune my pedal, but all of them do what you're saying. I don't like it.
Quote from: r0tor on September 21, 2023, 08:06:52 AMWelcome in the massive amounts of village idiots that buy pedal tuners thinking it somehow makes their car faster when 30% throttle is WOT
Yup.
Mav has different "modes" of driving. What's obnoxious is that it doesn't remember anything you select next time you turn the truck on.
-Normal is pretty good on average.
-Eco gets more aggressive with regen, and slower to turn on the ICE. Feels more like I imagine "one pedal driving" would be. But you also have to mash the pedal more to accelerate faster.
-Slippery is actually much less regen and REALLY have to mash the pedal to get brisk acceleration. People report getting best mpgeez on this one, because you control regen with braking and can coast more.
-Sport keeps the ICE on ready for acceleration more.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 21, 2023, 08:54:33 AMI want a pedal tuner to detune my pedal, but all of them do what you're saying. I don't like it.
Is it just rewriting CAN bus messages...?
Quote from: MrH on September 21, 2023, 07:11:59 AMI don't think I could call anything attached to that CVT responsive :lol:
In general, I prefer the throttle response of an N/A motor over the outright power of a turboed car. Give me an EV for daily commuting appliance, and a manual + N/A motor for fun. Down with automatics, DSGs, and CVTs!
It shocked me. And it was mostly taking off from a stop is where I really noticed it. Maybe not so much when under way, but took me quite a few starts to recalibrate.
For me, personal ownership-wise, it's Accord > G37 >> SQ5. The Outback was on par with the Accord. And note the SQ5 has a tune whereby the throttle mapping is more aggressive.
Quote from: Laconian on September 21, 2023, 01:11:36 PMIs it just rewriting CAN bus messages...?
That's too advanced... most are just programmable resistance boxes
Quote from: r0tor on September 21, 2023, 01:43:54 PMThat's too advanced... most are just programmable resistance boxes
Yeah, since the throttle pedal is connected by wires nowadays instead of a cable!
This is a nice threat topic Madman.
1) off road tires are good for winter driving on paved roads
2) big cars from several decades ago are safer in an accident than modern cars
3) it is better when traveling at a fast speed to swerve to avoid hitting an animal rather than slamming the brakes and aiming the center of the car right at the animal
4) if you end up in a lake you should wait for the water outside the car to equilibrate with the water inside of the car before attempting to open the door
5) the best way to avoid getting killed in an active road rage incidence is to ignore the road rager. (You are better off making eye contact and apologizing)
6) keeping an older high mileage car running is usually wiser than replacing with a newer low mileage car (Not always. Your time has a lot of value to).
7) you should teach your wife or daughter to change a flat tire (No. They should call you and/or your insurance company/roadside assistance and not risk getting hit by another vehicle while changing the tire. If they are stuck on the road, they should leave the car and get safely away from the road).
8) if you need to stop on the highway, you are safe if your car is on the shoulder (You should be halfway or even more on the grass beyond the shoulder)
9) bicycling on public roads shared with cars is a healthy form of exercise (You are far more likely to die or get maimed).
10) EV will become the dominant mode of personal vehicle transportation in the U.S. within the next decade.
My fave myth probably: Diesels are any sort of appropriate in a retail vehicle.
Quote from: veeman on September 22, 2023, 06:51:10 AMThis is a nice threat topic Madman.
6) keeping an older high mileage car running is usually wiser than replacing with a newer low mileage car (Not always. Your time has a lot of value to).
I think the argument is that it is less expensive to maintain an older car than buy a new one and that has been proven to be true many times. The problem is that most people don't maintain their vehicles so they end up with major unplanned repairs that cost them both time and money
7) you should teach your wife or daughter to change a flat tire (No. They should call you and/or your insurance company/roadside assistance and not risk getting hit by another vehicle while changing the tire. If they are stuck on the road, they should leave the car and get safely away from the road).
Knowledge is always a good thing. Part of that knowledge is knowing the best way to handle a situation. I have taught my wife and daughters how to change a tire but I have also taught them that if they get a flat tire on a busy road they should drive slowly to a place where they can safely get off of the road. I would rather pay the cost of a tire and wheel than risk their lives. I have also taught them to call me once they are in a safe place to do so.
As long as I'm in one of my cars, I'm braking and swerving at all cost to dodge deer...
Have you ever seen one of those things go through a windshield? I have and it wasn't pretty.
Especially on a car forum, most people say maintaining an older high mileage car is a wise move.
Anecdotally from my personal life experiences and hearing from many other friends and family members I have not found this to be true at least half the time. A couple of important caveats:
Most people don't have the knowledge and tools to fix broken things or even do basic maintenance. Many people on a car forum, on the other hand, enjoy working on their cars. Some actually do it or have done it for a living.
Most people don't want to spend the time, often a chunk of a Saturday, going to the dealership or independent shop to do the above and much more of the above is needed on a high mileage older car compared with a newer low mileage car.
I know well a few people who drive their cars until the wheels fall off. One dude I know put 300 thousand miles plus on a Jeep Grand Cherokee. He liked that car so much he even had it professionally painted at over 200 thousand miles.
I also know well a few people who sell their car as soon as it hits 70 thousand miles. They get oil changes and occasionally need a brake job. They get good money on trade in and enjoy a new car every 3 years.
I will also say you can maintain a German luxury car by the book and it will still cost you an arm and a leg to maintain it after warranty runs out, which is typically 4 years/50 thousand miles.
Quote from: r0tor on September 22, 2023, 10:34:48 AMAs long as I'm in one of my cars, I'm braking and swerving at all cost to dodge deer...
Have you ever seen one of those things go through a windshield? I have and it wasn't pretty.
Depends. Going 50 mph on a two lane road, with traffic moving in opposite directions, you're probably better off slamming the brakes and aiming the center of your car for the deer. Especially if there's a ditch on one end and a blind spot for oncoming traffic in the other lane. You swerve at that speed you will often lose control.
By googling almost all publications say never swerve for a deer. Slam the brakes and hit the deer.
The common advice of buying a gently used car instead of a new car has generally been bad advice for the past ~2 years, if you can get the new car without dealer markup. Better off buying the new car at MSRP with a warranty than overpaying for a used car. (Frequently priced the same as the new car for popular Toyota/Honda models)
I swerved for a deer in Kentucky once. It was right by my house, on a 2 lane road. There was a tiny 1 lane road off to the side that I veered down at the last second. I was actually quite impressed with my reaction time.
Personally just for me I can think of almost no reason why I would want my wife or daughter to change a flat tire on the side of a road or even a mall parking lot.
I've done it myself a few times. If they wanted to know, I'll show them but I'm not offering it. Last thing I want is the car to roll off the jack and crush my wife or daughter. A lot of things can go wrong especially for a novice with horrible consequences.
Why I say wife or daughter and not son? I guess I'm not woke enough. I'll also make my son snow plow our driveway but not my daughter.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 22, 2023, 11:21:40 AMI swerved for a deer in Kentucky once. It was right by my house, on a 2 lane road. There was a tiny 1 lane road off to the side that I veered down at the last second. I was actually quite impressed with my reaction time.
I would have wrecked multiple times if I didn't swerve for deer.
I hate how many people pull off on the shoulder when they could easily make it to the next exit and change the tire in a safe parking lot or gas station
Of course most tire blowouts are due to lack of maintenance. Getting a nail in your tire usually leads to a slow leak which is easily fixed. The blowouts are usually from improper pressure over months/years. Or wearing them down too far
Or a big sharp piece of black metal lying in wait in a puddle! RIP that CrossClimate
Quote from: Laconian on September 22, 2023, 12:48:09 PMOr a big sharp piece of black metal lying in wait in a puddle! RIP that CrossClimate
oof.
A few weeks ago there were multiple 5 gallon buckets on the highway. Everyone had to slalom around them. One truck couldn't avoid one and hit it with the bumper and started dragging it along, so he pulled over. (Doubt there was any damage to the truck, maybe a light scratch on the bumper)
Quote from: veeman on September 22, 2023, 11:01:46 AMEspecially on a car forum, most people say maintaining an older high mileage car is a wise move.
Anecdotally from my personal life experiences and hearing from many other friends and family members I have not found this to be true at least half the time. A couple of important caveats:
Most people don't have the knowledge and tools to fix broken things or even do basic maintenance. Many people on a car forum, on the other hand, enjoy working on their cars. Some actually do it or have done it for a living.
Most people don't want to spend the time, often a chunk of a Saturday, going to the dealership or independent shop to do the above and much more of the above is needed on a high mileage older car compared with a newer low mileage car.
I know well a few people who drive their cars until the wheels fall off. One dude I know put 300 thousand miles plus on a Jeep Grand Cherokee. He liked that car so much he even had it professionally painted at over 200 thousand miles.
I also know well a few people who sell their car as soon as it hits 70 thousand miles. They get oil changes and occasionally need a brake job. They get good money on trade in and enjoy a new car every 3 years.
I will also say you can maintain a German luxury car by the book and it will still cost you an arm and a leg to maintain it after warranty runs out, which is typically 4 years/50 thousand miles.
Generally, I agree - maintaining an older vehicle is usually a bad idea if driven regularly/normally. Hondas, Toyotas, some Nissans? One can probably go 10-15 years. Most anything else, mos def less.
Finances is a big part of it. A new $5k engine in a vehicle worth $5k when running is not worth $10k - still only worth $5k with the new engine, maybe a smidge more. Then let's say the transmission goes 6 months later - another $5k. Now you've spent $10k keeping a $5k vehicle on the road.
The other issue is availability. Getting stranded late at night in a snow storm, being without a vehicle due to length repairs, or being late for work. All bad.
The last issue is safety. Vehicle safety improves each year such that a vehicle ~10-15 years old is notably less safe than a new vehicle.
IME, 10 years in age and 150,000-180,000 miles is about the sweet spot with Japanese cars, preferably having purchased 1-2 years old with less then 20,000 miles. My plan for the SQ5 was/is less than 5 years and less than 100,000 miles (currently at 2.5 years and 60,000 miles, and so far so good!).
Quote from: veeman on September 22, 2023, 11:08:42 AMDepends. Going 50 mph on a two lane road, with traffic moving in opposite directions, you're probably better off slamming the brakes and aiming the center of your car for the deer. Especially if there's a ditch on one end and a blind spot for oncoming traffic in the other lane. You swerve at that speed you will often lose control.
By googling almost all publications say never swerve for a deer. Slam the brakes and hit the deer.
Correct - never swerve, unless of course it's obvious one can (going super slow, wide open highway) but that is almost never the case. Those fuckers can't resist just running out onto the road with little if any warning.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 22, 2023, 01:38:49 PMGenerally, I agree - maintaining an older vehicle is usually a bad idea if driven regularly/normally. Hondas, Toyotas, some Nissans? One can probably go 10-15 years. Most anything else, mos def less.
Finances is a big part of it. A new $5k engine in a vehicle worth $5k when running is not worth $10k - still only worth $5k with the new engine, maybe a smidge more. Then let's say the transmission goes 6 months later - another $5k. Now you've spent $10k keeping a $5k vehicle on the road.
The other issue is availability. Getting stranded late at night in a snow storm, being without a vehicle due to length repairs, or being late for work. All bad.
The last issue is safety. Vehicle safety improves each year such that a vehicle ~10-15 years old is notably less safe than a new vehicle.
IME, 10 years in age and 150,000-180,000 miles is about the sweet spot with Japanese cars, preferably having purchased 1-2 years old with less then 20,000 miles. My plan for the SQ5 was/is less than 5 years and less than 100,000 miles (currently at 2.5 years and 60,000 miles, and so far so good!).
With the cheapest new car right now costing $20,000, a 60 month loan will be in the ballpark of $400/month. If you drop a new engine in a car for $5000 you would pay off that engine in 12 months. I have been driving for 40 years and I have never had the bad luck of losing an engine and transmission in a car in the same year.
How about "never" "never" anything. Swerve or brake, whatever the situation calls for. Usually not both, but not "never".
Quote from: veeman on September 22, 2023, 11:08:42 AMDepends. Going 50 mph on a two lane road, with traffic moving in opposite directions, you're probably better off slamming the brakes and aiming the center of your car for the deer. Especially if there's a ditch on one end and a blind spot for oncoming traffic in the other lane. You swerve at that speed you will often lose control.
By googling almost all publications say never swerve for a deer. Slam the brakes and hit the deer.
A). No. Cars these days have ABS and stability control. The chance of losing control over a swerve is minimal.
B). You always try to swerve towards their ass as it scooches them quicker in that direction. Aim towards their center and they freeze, aim towards their front and they try to spin around and wipe out and become a barrier.
...living in this area I would probably be in an accident every 1-2 years not dodging deer...
I'm just going to get a giant steel plate bumper to destroy deer. No brakes or swerving.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 22, 2023, 06:09:42 PMI'm just going to get a giant steel plate bumper to destroy deer. No brakes or swerving.
As a kid a deer got wacked by a truck going probably 60mph in front of our house... the truck kept going, most of the deer landed about 150 feet away... the deer's innards remained at the point of impact and our mailbox was bright red
:Puke:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on September 22, 2023, 06:09:42 PMI'm just going to get a giant steel plate bumper to destroy deer. No brakes or swerving.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nrCQWZtV/Zeus-2012.jpg)
Quote1) off road tires are good for winter driving on paved roads
Off-road tires are de rigueur in the brodozer community for paved road driving in
any season. High-decibel droning road noise plus loud pipes are must-haves for the wispy-beard lifestyle.
Quote from: r0tor on September 22, 2023, 02:59:45 PMA). No. Cars these days have ABS and stability control. The chance of losing control over a swerve is minimal.
B). You always try to swerve towards their ass as it scooches them quicker in that direction. Aim towards their center and they freeze, aim towards their front and they try to spin around and wipe out and become a barrier.
...living in this area I would probably be in an accident every 1-2 years not dodging deer...
In defensive driving school, to cope with deer etc., or the proverbial refrigerator falling of the truck in front, my kids were taught to both stamp as hard as they could on the brakes ("try to break off the pedal") AND swerve.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 24, 2023, 05:13:50 AMOff-road tires are de rigueur in the brodozer community for paved road driving in any season. High-decibel droning road noise plus loud pipes are must-haves for the wispy-beard lifestyle.
The noise might scare away the deer... hmm
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 24, 2023, 05:13:50 AMOff-road tires are de rigueur in the brodozer community for paved road driving in any season. High-decibel droning road noise plus loud pipes are must-haves for the wispy-beard lifestyle.
I see them also a lot on Ford Broncos and Jeep Wranglers driven in wealthy suburbs by white collar mom and dads.
I don't mind them at all because the cars don't make loud noises and the drivers don't drive like hooligans. I just chuckle to myself because the drivers think their huge ass off road tires are great in the rain and ice on paved roads when I know my small diameter dedicated winter tires on steelies on my compact Veloster are better in the cold.
Quote from: veeman on September 24, 2023, 08:33:50 AMI see them also a lot on Ford Broncos and Jeep Wranglers driven in wealthy suburbs by white collar mom and dads.
I don't mind them at all because the cars don't make loud noises and the drivers don't drive like hooligans. I just chuckle to myself because the drivers think their huge ass off road tires are great in the rain and ice on paved roads when I know my small diameter dedicated winter tires on steelies on my compact Veloster are better in the cold.
Which one of those white collar moms or dads said to you "my offroad tires are great in the snow?"
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 24, 2023, 07:08:12 PMWhich one of those white collar moms or dads said to you "my offroad tires are great in the snow?"
It's a generalization which anecdotally, in my life experience, has been correct regarding those white collar Moms and Dads who drive Ford Broncos and Jeep Wranglers on large all terrain tires but don't use their cars for any off roading. And I've had a few conversations with these Dads, all of whom love their Jeeps and Broncos.
10 years ago after I gave my Sonata to my nephew, I almost bought a Jeep Wrangler. I wanted a Jeep Wrangler unlimited (that's the stretched out one) in Chief Blue color and would have gotten one. I test drove it. Found out the 4WD is part time only and 99% of the time the car is driven on paved roads in RWD mode. Found out those awesome looking all terrain tires did not have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol on them. I still would have gotten that Jeep but the highway ride and handling at 70 mph plus really sucked.
I'm sure the current Jeep Wrangler is much much better and I'm sure the Ford Bronco is excellent in the winter on paved roads with their all terrain tires. Some of these all terrain tires even have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol on them.
But there's a reason police Ford Explorers in the winter use skinny winter tires and not wide all terrain tires. They're better on icy and light snow covered paved roads.
explorer.jpg
^ Totally. Yuppies in their Wranglers and Broncos and such are out there, with brodozers and nuevo rich family teens in 4Runner and Tacomas, during the first snow, screwing around.
A/T and off road tires are generally not good in the snow that is some measure of driveable (i.e., not feet deep). No only due to their typical width, but their tread compound; esp. the knobbies; is rather hard in order to resist abuse from rocks and roots and such (which is the exact opposite of what you want in snow and ice).
That people read the owner manual.
Screenshot_20230925-045649.jpg
Yes it's the jack.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 24, 2023, 05:13:50 AMOff-road tires are de rigueur in the brodozer community for paved road driving in any season. High-decibel droning road noise plus loud pipes are must-haves for the wispy-beard lifestyle.
:lol:!
I got premium touring tires on my 4x4 TRD. It can corner slightly faster than a school bus.
Quote from: veeman on September 24, 2023, 08:56:51 PMIt's a generalization which anecdotally, in my life experience, has been correct regarding those white collar Moms and Dads who drive Ford Broncos and Jeep Wranglers on large all terrain tires but don't use their cars for any off roading. And I've had a few conversations with these Dads, all of whom love their Jeeps and Broncos.
10 years ago after I gave my Sonata to my nephew, I almost bought a Jeep Wrangler. I wanted a Jeep Wrangler unlimited (that's the stretched out one) in Chief Blue color and would have gotten one. I test drove it. Found out the 4WD is part time only and 99% of the time the car is driven on paved roads in RWD mode. Found out those awesome looking all terrain tires did not have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol on them. I still would have gotten that Jeep but the highway ride and handling at 70 mph plus really sucked.
I'm sure the current Jeep Wrangler is much much better and I'm sure the Ford Bronco is excellent in the winter on paved roads with their all terrain tires. Some of these all terrain tires even have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol on them.
But there's a reason police Ford Explorers in the winter use skinny winter tires and not wide all terrain tires. They're better on icy and light snow covered paved roads.
explorer.jpg
No shit that dedicated snow tires are going to be better than all-terrain/all-season.
One of the most popular A/T tires of all time is 3PMS rated...the BFG KO2. Wrangler DuraTracs are 3PMS. Falken Wildpeak AT3W's are 3PMS. Toyo Open Country AT III's are 3PMS.
IOW, some of the most popular "cool-looking" A/T tires are 3PMS rated. Are they better than a dedicated snow tire? Well, no...but two truck tires cost as much as your entire set for your car. Many people get by just fine with one tire set.
If you're getting into M/T tires...then yeah, those are pretty useless in on-road snow conditions. They're stiff/hard and way too blocky.
My snow belt-dwelling in-laws had a setup with their tire shop. They paid the shop to store whichever sets of tires were not in use: renting space basically. They'd show up when the season changed, & the dealer took care of the swap.
FWD cars - no fancy 4WD - never had a problem in the snow.
There was a honkin' big gas heater hung from the ceiling in their garage. Got the cars toasty before heading off to work.
I never put snow tires on our JGC and it's just fine in any amount of snow that's below the hood
Quote from: r0tor on September 29, 2023, 10:59:37 AMI never put snow tires on our JGC and it's just fine in any amount of snow that's below the hood
Ground clearance and proper 4WD is king when it comes to (real) snow. :rockon: