All-New 2019 Mazda3 Looks Sleek Inside And Out In Best Photos Yet

[MrH]

So they can retune the hell out of the 2.0i for the Miata but they can't retune the 2.5T for an MS3? Lol

Are the German brands less mature than Mazda?

Let me be nice.

What 2.0 did they "retune"?

[93JC]

What 2.0 did they "retune"?

He's saying the MX-5 has 181 hp, and the 3 has only 155 hp, so if they can find an extra 25 hp in the naturally-aspirated 2.0 L how come they can't squeeze more power out of the 2.5 turbo (which has very deliberately been tuned for torque more than peak power)?

[MrH]

The engine in the miata now is totally different than the one in the Mazda 3.  All new crankshaft, pistons, connecting rods, and valve train. The only thing shared between them is the block I think.

It was way more extensive than just a tune.

[Submariner]

The Car industry has a parallel with the movie industry. No one wants to make anything that won't make money (I know, not a big revelation).

It seems as though none of the major manufacturers want to make "speed" products for the masses as there is no money there. It seems that most of the tuning will end up aftermarket. I would say if that is your schtick, then why not just buy something used and tune it if that's what you want to do.

Most mainstreamers have V6 options that make them way, way faster than in house "tuner" models of just 10 years ago.

[MX793]

Most mainstreamers have V6 options that make them way, way faster than in house "tuner" models of just 10 years ago.

Everyone except Toyota has dropped their V6.

[12,000 RPM]

The engine in the miata now is totally different than the one in the Mazda 3.  All new crankshaft, pistons, connecting rods, and valve train. The only thing shared between them is the block I think.

It was way more extensive than just a tune.

Tuning isn't just limited to ECU programming

But the changes needed to make the 2.5T MS3 grade wouldn't need to be anywhere near as extensive as what Mazda did with the 2.0.

[MX793]

Tuning isn't just limited to ECU programming

But the changes needed to make the 2.5T MS3 grade wouldn't need to be anywhere near as extensive as what Mazda did with the 2.0.

Depends on where the power restriction is.  If you look at guys who tune Ford ST and RS models, tunes get them more peak torque (and low end power), but do very little to improve peak power because the turbo is already maxed out at higher RPM.  I'm guessing that if the Mazda 2.5T was tuned for low end, it's a similar story.  So you're looking at a bigger turbo, for starters.  That may necessitate bigger injectors, which may prompt a higher volume HPFP.  Intercooler may be undersized, so that could very well require replacement to a higher flow version.  Maybe new cams and larger valves.  Given that it's GDI, they may not need to change the compression ratio, but they might need sturdier rods.  Possibly a forged crankshaft.

Shit ripples, brah.

Also keep in mind that unlike your shade-tree tuner, the OEM needs to make sure these things run reliably for the long haul.

[MrH]

Depends on where the power restriction is.  If you look at guys who tune Ford ST and RS models, tunes get them more peak torque (and low end power), but do very little to improve peak power because the turbo is already maxed out at higher RPM.  I'm guessing that if the Mazda 2.5T was tuned for low end, it's a similar story.  So you're looking at a bigger turbo, for starters.  That may necessitate bigger injectors, which may prompt a higher volume HPFP.  Intercooler may be undersized, so that could very well require replacement to a higher flow version.  Maybe new cams and larger valves.  Given that it's GDI, they may not need to change the compression ratio, but they might need sturdier rods.  Possibly a forged crankshaft.

Shit ripples, brah.

Also keep in mind that unlike your shade-tree tuner, the OEM needs to make sure these things run reliably for the long haul.

Not only that, but putting it in a car like a Mazda 3 represents a whole new challenge. There might be multiple things in the drivetrain that would be totally overwhelmed by the 2.5T. All of a sudden, it gets really expensive really fast when you have to redevelop tons of things over the base.

Mazda is best off getting SkyActive X out in as many applications as fast as they can.

[12,000 RPM]

3, CX-5, 6 and CX-9 are all on the Skyactiv platform

CX-5, 6 and CX-9 have the 2.5T

I really don't think Mazda would have to move mountains to get the 2.5T in the 3. We are acting as if Mazda doesn't have a standalone RWD chassis with an engine some consider all new. As great as the Miata is, the MS3 makes much more sense, especially in the context of Mazda's platforms and lineup

And truthfully, as geeky and holy grailish as Skyactiv-X is, I'm skeptical. Immensely complex system for marginal gains. And I hear it's gonna be a mild hybrid system now. Why not just leverage the Toyota partnership and do a simple full hybrid?

[MX793]

3, CX-5, 6 and CX-9 are all on the Skyactiv platform

CX-5, 6 and CX-9 have the 2.5T

I really don't think Mazda would have to move mountains to get the 2.5T in the 3. We are acting as if Mazda doesn't have a standalone RWD chassis with an engine some consider all new. As great as the Miata is, the MS3 makes much more sense, especially in the context of Mazda's platforms and lineup

And truthfully, as geeky and holy grailish as Skyactiv-X is, I'm skeptical. Immensely complex system for marginal gains. And I hear it's gonna be a mild hybrid system now. Why not just leverage the Toyota partnership and do a simple full hybrid?

A lot of the Miata development was co-founded by Fiat.

The Speed3 was much lower volume than the Miata.  Mazda only sold 5k MS3s per year in the US.  Prior to the recession, they were moving 11k-12k Miatas annually in the US.  They dropped to around 6k per year during the recession but have picked back up to 10k-11k since the ND came out.

[12,000 RPM]

Sure an MS3 wouldn't sell as much as a Miata. But it wouldn't take anywhere near as much effort to develop either. If there's a business case for a Miata there's a business case for an MS3. Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Subaru, Volkswagen etc. all make it work

[MX793]

Sure an MS3 wouldn't sell as much as a Miata. But it wouldn't take anywhere near as much effort to develop either. If there's a business case for a Miata there's a business case for an MS3. Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Subaru, Volkswagen etc. all make it work

Honda, H/K, VW, etc are all much larger than Mazda.  Mazda put whatever niche segment money they had into the Miata (and even then had to partner with a larger company to foot the bill).

[MrH]

3, CX-5, 6 and CX-9 are all on the Skyactiv platform

CX-5, 6 and CX-9 have the 2.5T

I really don't think Mazda would have to move mountains to get the 2.5T in the 3. We are acting as if Mazda doesn't have a standalone RWD chassis with an engine some consider all new. As great as the Miata is, the MS3 makes much more sense, especially in the context of Mazda's platforms and lineup

And truthfully, as geeky and holy grailish as Skyactiv-X is, I'm skeptical. Immensely complex system for marginal gains. And I hear it's gonna be a mild hybrid system now. Why not just leverage the Toyota partnership and do a simple full hybrid?

I mean, you think you've really gone in depth more than Mazda on what makes sense for their lineup?  Just seems weird you want to Monday morning quarterback every decision as if you hold the keys to the information and not them.

[BimmerM3]

As great as the Miata is, the MS3 makes much more sense, especially in the context of Mazda's platforms and lineup

The Miata is essentially their flagship vehicle. They've built their entire brand around its success.

[Rich]

I mean, you think you've really gone in depth more than Mazda on what makes sense for their lineup?  Just seems weird you want to Monday morning quarterback every decision as if you hold the keys to the information and not them.

You do the same with Tesla

If someone would have only done the same with GM way back they may not have gone bankrupt.

[12,000 RPM]

I mean, you think you've really gone in depth more than Mazda on what makes sense for their lineup?  Just seems weird you want to Monday morning quarterback every decision as if you hold the keys to the information and not them.

Oh brother. You are just arguing to argue. No I don't think I've gone more in depth than Mazda, just like I'm sure you haven't. I'm just offering my opinion based on the info I have available, just like you are. Get off corporate analyst nuts for once, you and me put our legs on one leg at a time like everyone else.

You and MX793 are making an MS3 sound like the moon landing, as if Mazda didn't

- design and launch a brand new turbocharged engine
- "create a new engine" for the Miata (in your opinion)
- bring a compression ignition gasoline engine to market (!!!!)

All in the last ~3 years. Taking and tweaking an engine they already made and putting it in a car on a platform they already developed to utilize said engine doesn't compare to any of that. IMO it's more likely to be a branding or product planning decision more than a lack of resources.... but ultimately none of us know (even you amazingly)

[MX793]

Oh brother. You are just arguing to argue. No I don't think I've gone more in depth than Mazda, just like I'm sure you haven't. I'm just offering my opinion based on the info I have available, just like you are. Get off corporate analyst nuts for once, you and me put our legs on one leg at a time like everyone else.

You and MX793 are making an MS3 sound like the moon landing, as if Mazda didn't

- design and launch a brand new turbocharged engine
- "create a new engine" for the Miata (in your opinion)
- bring a compression ignition gasoline engine to market (!!!!)

All in the last ~3 years. Taking and tweaking an engine they already made and putting it in a car on a platform they already developed to utilize said engine doesn't compare to any of that. IMO it's more likely to be a branding or product planning decision more than a lack of resources.... but ultimately none of us know (even you amazingly)

Does Mazda have infinite funds?  As noted, Mazda just dropped considerable money developing a multiple new engines.  What makes you think they have enough additional cash to develop a Mazdaspeed3 right now?
 
Did you rush out to buy new cars for you and the Mrs the same month you closed on and made a down payment on your house?  Why not?  Buying a car or two is a drop in the bucket compared to buying a whole house...

[12,000 RPM]

Does Mazda have infinite funds?  As noted, Mazda just dropped considerable money developing a multiple new engines.  What makes you think they have enough additional cash to develop a Mazdaspeed3 right now?
 
Did you rush out to buy new cars for you and the Mrs the same month you closed on and made a down payment on your house?  Why not?  Buying a car or two is a drop in the bucket compared to buying a whole house...

Who the fuck knows man.

[Laconian]

What's this about the SkyActiv X being hybrid!?

IIRC their hype has been "who needs hybrid?"

[Laconian]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/mazda-skyactiv-x-engine-range-gain-plug-hybrid-variant-2021

"variant" - as in, not all X's
"from 2021" - as in, not *now*

[BimmerM3]

Oh brother. You are just arguing to argue. No I don't think I've gone more in depth than Mazda, just like I'm sure you haven't. I'm just offering my opinion based on the info I have available, just like you are. Get off corporate analyst nuts for once, you and me put our legs on one leg at a time like everyone else.

You and MX793 are making an MS3 sound like the moon landing, as if Mazda didn't

Bruh, they're just giving you a bunch of possible reasons why Mazda didn't do it. Seems to me like you're the one that's arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Raza]

To settle the argument, I called up my contact at Mazda, a fellow named Billy Mazda (yes, he's the grandson of the founder Ahura Mazda and secret CEO, don't bother looking him up) and he said that the Mazdaspeed3 is coming in 2021. It's a JV with GM and will have AWD and two LT5 Corvette engines for a total of 1,510 horsepower and a hybrid drive from the Chevy Volt adding another 90, for a total of 1600hp. Estimated top speed is 350mph and it can run fully on electric power for 10 miles before needing to switch over to the gas engines. It'll be priced at less than a GTI and offer fully automated parking, a Tesla-like self driving feature called SkyDriveInactiveDriverHappyFunTime, and comes with automatic dimming mirrors as standard. 

[SJ_GTI]

To settle the argument, I called up my contact at Mazda, a fellow named Billy Mazda (yes, he's the grandson of the founder Ahura Mazda and secret CEO, don't bother looking him up) and he said that the Mazdaspeed3 is coming in 2021. It's a JV with GM and will have AWD and two LT5 Corvette engines for a total of 1,510 horsepower and a hybrid drive from the Chevy Volt adding another 90, for a total of 1600hp. Estimated top speed is 350mph and it can run fully on electric power for 10 miles before needing to switch over to the gas engines. It'll be priced at less than a GTI and offer fully automated parking, a Tesla-like self driving feature called SkyDriveInactiveDriverHappyFunTime, and comes with automatic dimming mirrors as standard.

No manuel, no care.

[93JC]

To settle the argument, I called up my contact at Mazda, a fellow named Billy Mazda (yes, he's the grandson of the founder Ahura Mazda and secret CEO, don't bother looking him up) and he said that the Mazdaspeed3 is coming in 2021. It's a JV with GM and will have AWD and two LT5 Corvette engines for a total of 1,510 horsepower and a hybrid drive from the Chevy Volt adding another 90, for a total of 1600hp. Estimated top speed is 350mph and it can run fully on electric power for 10 miles before needing to switch over to the gas engines. It'll be priced at less than a GTI and offer fully automated parking, a Tesla-like self driving feature called SkyDriveInactiveDriverHappyFunTime, and comes with automatic dimming mirrors as standard. 

[SJ_GTI]

[MrH]

To settle the argument, I called up my contact at Mazda, a fellow named Billy Mazda (yes, he's the grandson of the founder Ahura Mazda and secret CEO, don't bother looking him up) and he said that the Mazdaspeed3 is coming in 2021. It's a JV with GM and will have AWD and two LT5 Corvette engines for a total of 1,510 horsepower and a hybrid drive from the Chevy Volt adding another 90, for a total of 1600hp. Estimated top speed is 350mph and it can run fully on electric power for 10 miles before needing to switch over to the gas engines. It'll be priced at less than a GTI and offer fully automated parking, a Tesla-like self driving feature called SkyDriveInactiveDriverHappyFunTime, and comes with automatic dimming mirrors as standard. 

  This was the best part.  That's a pretty convincing name from a Japanese OEM.

[Soup DeVille]

  This was the best part.  That's a pretty convincing name from a Japanese OEM.

Right in line with "Every Joy Pop Turbo" and the Suzuki Lapin's floormats that read "Life saying is first at home place."

[Eye of the Tiger]

Right in line with "Every Joy Pop Turbo" and the Suzuki Lapin's floormats that read "Life saying is first at home place."

wat

[AutobahnSHO]

Mazda never did advertise the Speed very well. Not as well known as the Ford high performance monikers, or STI or WRX or .......

[FoMoJo]

Mazda never did advertise the Speed very well. Not as well known as the Ford high performance monikers, or STI or WRX or .......

Mazda/Mazda Speed has had some success in racing, but does not match the involvement and history of the likes of Ford or even Subaru; especially on the WRC circuit.