Car Chat

Started by FoMoJo, August 26, 2014, 05:59:31 AM

12,000 RPM

Fair enough. No need to pain yourself with rationalizations of wholly subjective preferences though.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

veeman

Like a labtop or smartphone, I don't think these new virtual dashboards are designed to go 15 plus years.  10 years is probably pushing it. 

Raza

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 19, 2016, 08:32:39 AM
Fair enough. No need to pain yourself with rationalizations of wholly subjective preferences though.

Well, I had preconceived notions that were debunked. We're all better for it. You didn't change my mind, but I no longer have unfounded concerns.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

12,000 RPM

It would be pretty funny for a manufacturer to put a big dot matrix screen in a dash. Maybe they will enable that as a dash skin.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

SJ_GTI

For me what I liked about the virtual dash is the flexibilty and (limited) abilty to individualize the layout. With Audi you also get your nav screen right in front of you instead of off to the right.

Plus they are just cool tech imho. I am actually not super picky when it comes gauge layout, though I do tend to prefer symmetry.

ifcar

The downside to the nav in the gauge cluster is that it's so horizontal that most of the map is showing what's to your sides instead of what's ahead of you. But it's a fun gimmick.

A number of electronically rendered gauge clusters really don't explore the full potential, and just have plain ordinary gauges. Audi was far more creative.

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: 68_427 on August 19, 2016, 05:45:34 AM
I don't think the 2005 Mustang Automatically changed backlighting color depending on how bright it is outside.

Sorry, I meant the body.
New mustang reminds of old but looks new. This reminds me of the late 80s BMW gauges.
Will

MexicoCityM3

#1057
Well, I passed on the X4 M40i today to another club member before we have to return it to BMW tomorrow.

Overall, I really liked it. I think the main point about it is usability while still being sporty and a lot of fun to drive. The usability point is very important. Keep in mind that for my needs here in Mexico City where traffic can be hellish and a lot of streets are in bad shape, the added height and ground clearance of the X4 helps a lot with "not worrying" about potholes, speed bumps, etc.

Drivetrain. BMW still makes fantastic drivetrains. This car has a slightly detuned version of the new M2's engine. Which is a tuned N55 basically. In this application it has 360hp. The sound of the engine is nice, with backfiring on the overrun and that sweet inline 6 typical BMW sound. As far as I could tell, I didn't notice any artificial engine sounds - it may have them however. Acceleration is about on par with my 1M which is excellent for an SUV. The gearbox (ZF 8 speed here) is a gem. With shifts that are 98% close to a DCT. It responds instantly for all it matters.

Ride. The previous club tester warned me that he found ride was too choppy. I didn't find it so. This X4 was equipped with optional 20 inch wheels with Michelin PSS low profile non-RFT tires. Both me and the wife found the ride very acceptable. It can get slightly choppy on side to side surface breaks. I'd say it's almost as comfortable as the M5 on comfort mode. Softer than all our other cars including the MINI. I'd probably get it with the standard 19 inch wheels and replace the RFT tires with normal ones to improve things a bit. Overall, the car feels built very solidly - bank vault like. No rattles or noises at all. I loved that.

Handling/Steering The steering feels "electric" which is to say devoid of feel. Not a huge negative for the kind of car. Still precise. Damping is great and the limits seem to be very high. I only drove it in the city so I got nowhere near the limit of it.

Interior/Space I really liked the interior quality of most everything but I think the general dashboard plastic could be better. Interior leather looked very nice and the current M sport steering wheel is fantastic. The car feels airy and space is great in the front. Baby fit in the rear-facing child seat in the back with no problems behind Monika. If he had been behind me it would have been a bit tight for me. The trunk is big enough for the stroller and some leftover space.

Gadgetry Being a BMW demo this was almost fully loaded. I found the stereo (Haraman/Kardon) great sounding. The bird's eye view camera was cool. I loved the new HUD. Overall, the gadgetry made my cars feel a bit ancient. I do like the gadgets in general, even the driver assist and Eco-Pro stuff. I find them fun.

Conclusion For a place like Mexico City (or most anywhere in this country), this car would be a great DD. It does have a very noticeable edge over a "standard" X3. The stronger engine, drivetrain, and suspension tuning make a very noticeable difference. I could see myself in one. But, other priorities come first and as the family's main SUV, an X5 makes a lot more sense. Sad!

Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
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'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

AutobahnSHO

Will

BimmerM3

Quote from: veeman on August 19, 2016, 08:37:58 AM
Like a labtop or smartphone, I don't think these new virtual dashboards are designed to go 15 plus years.  10 years is probably pushing it. 

wut

Smartphones and laptops get outdated because of other capabilities (mostly battery, RAM, and processor), not because their screens die.

Plenty of LCD TVs and computer monitors have lasted 10+ years. I still use a 2009 Vaio laptop that doesn't have a single dead pixel. There's no reason that a brand new example shouldn't last even longer.

Soup DeVille

To be fair, in an automotive interior that freezes in the winter, bakes in the summer and is generally exposed to more vibration and dust than the average laptop, 10 years is probably pushing the average life expectancy of a typical display.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

BimmerM3

Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 22, 2016, 10:13:37 PM
To be fair, in an automotive interior that freezes in the winter, bakes in the summer and is generally exposed to more vibration and dust than the average laptop, 10 years is probably pushing the average life expectancy of a typical display.

I doubt it. I would expect an average display to work WELL over 10 years at this point under good conditions. My dad's 2007 5er's iDrive screen is as good as new. :huh:

Soup DeVille

Quote from: BimmerM3 on August 22, 2016, 10:17:53 PM
I doubt it. I would expect an average display to work WELL over 10 years at this point under good conditions. My dad's 2007 5er's iDrive screen is as good as new. :huh:

"Average." "Pushing it."

"Good conditions."
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

BimmerM3

Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 22, 2016, 10:27:50 PM
"Average." "Pushing it."

"Good conditions."

Yes. Those were words we said.

I also said "WELL over 10 years."

There are plenty of 10 year old cars with nav systems that still work just fine. There's no reason why a brand new example wouldn't be even better.

giant_mtb

#1064
Drove and detailed a 2016 Lacrosse today. Super nice ride, super quiet, numb steering, really liked the HUD.

But the door panels drove me bonkers. The window switch panel is angled toward the driver so far, and so is the door handle.  The door handle is like...past vertical.  And the pocket to get your fingers in to open it is super shallow...not glove friendly.  Also the the spot for your elbow is so narrow and you can't rest it up on the window sill because that's at like neck level. 

Overall, really nice though.


Soup DeVille

Quote from: BimmerM3 on August 22, 2016, 10:46:07 PM
Yes. Those were words we said.

I also said "WELL over 10 years."

There are plenty of 10 year old cars with nav systems that still work just fine. There's no reason why a brand new example wouldn't be even better.

And my wife's crapped out at 3 years. According to the dealer, it's not an uncommon replacement either. Okay, GM isn't BMW; and my anecdotal evidence is about as meaningful as yours: but neither of those companies actually produce the screens either.

I'll put it his way; there's no reason for a manufacturer to expect or even want their equipment to have an exceedingly long mean time to failure. I'm not saying they're he only thing you can expect to fail, or that older systems were necessarily more reliable (already went through that once). But, I would expect to seems significant failure rate in 10 year old vehicles.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Soup DeVille

Quote from: giant_mtb on August 22, 2016, 10:56:02 PM
Drove and detailed a 2016 Lacrosse today. Super nice ride, super quiet, numb steering, really liked the HUD.

But the door panels drove me bonkers. The window switch panel is angled toward the driver so far, and so is the door handle.  The door handle is like...past vertical.  And the pocket to get your fingers in to open it is super shallow...not glove friendly.  Also the the spot for your elbow is so narrow and you can't rest it up on the window sill because that's at like neck level. 

Overall, really nice, though.



Nice, but apparently not made for human arms with normal joints. Cool.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

ifcar


BimmerM3

#1068
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 22, 2016, 10:59:04 PM
And my wife's crapped out at 3 years. According to the dealer, it's not an uncommon replacement either. Okay, GM isn't BMW; and my anecdotal evidence is about as meaningful as yours: but neither of those companies actually produce the screens either.

I'll put it his way; there's no reason for a manufacturer to expect or even want their equipment to have an exceedingly long mean time to failure. I'm not saying they're he only thing you can expect to fail, or that older systems were necessarily more reliable (already went through that once). But, I would expect to seems significant failure rate in 10 year old vehicles.

Fair enough. I still think that saying "10 years is probably pushing the average" is a bit strong, but I get where you're coming from. I wouldn't expect an individual unit to fail necessarily, but I can see how it'd be a higher than average replacement item.

FWIW, though still anecdotal, my 2006 Explorer's touch screen display doesn't have any issues either (other than outdated software). I'm pretty sure it was babied by it's first owner (fully maintained a dealership up to 88k miles and 9 years old, and just better interior condition than any other Explorer of that age I'd seen), but I've been driving it on some rougher roads (hiking trail heads - it got it's first real test last weekend :lol:), so we'll see if it starts to have issues.

68_427

Quote from: giant_mtb on August 22, 2016, 10:56:02 PM
Drove and detailed a 2016 Lacrosse today. Super nice ride, super quiet, numb steering, really liked the HUD.

But the door panels drove me bonkers. The window switch panel is angled toward the driver so far, and so is the door handle.  The door handle is like...past vertical.  And the pocket to get your fingers in to open it is super shallow...not glove friendly.  Also the the spot for your elbow is so narrow and you can't rest it up on the window sill because that's at like neck level. 

Overall, really nice though.



The arm rest and window switch issue look to be addressed with the new model



plus it looks much better IMO

Quotewhere were you when automotive dream died
i was sat at home drinking brake fluid when wife ring
'racecar is die'
no


giant_mtb

Quote from: ifcar on August 22, 2016, 11:14:46 PM


It kinda made it feel claustrophobic.  Why are all the buttons and handles leaning at me?  Why do I need to rotate my wrist weird to open a damn window.

giant_mtb

Quote from: 68_427 on August 22, 2016, 11:40:06 PM
The arm rest and window switch issue look to be addressed with the new model



plus it looks much better IMO



That does look nice. This is the newest of this car I've seen yet (it only had 9,900 miles on it).  I usually lag a couple years behind since a lot of people besides old people don't really take good care of their cars when they're brand new because it's a clean slate.

Loved this red, though.  Brand new paint is just soooo nice.




ifcar

Quote from: giant_mtb on August 23, 2016, 12:48:45 AM
It kinda made it feel claustrophobic.  Why are all the buttons and handles leaning at me?  Why do I need to rotate my wrist weird to open a damn window.

Because GM decided that was *more stylish*! Some designer put together a concept, then passed it along to the implementation folks and said "here, see where you can stick a window switch."

On another note, have you ever tried getting a steady business relationship with a car dealership (either new or used)?

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: 68_427 on August 22, 2016, 11:40:06 PM
The arm rest and window switch issue look to be addressed with the new model




Is that one of them new-fangled "death shifters" ??
Will

ifcar

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on August 23, 2016, 07:14:57 AM
Is that one of them new-fangled "death shifters" ??

The issue with Chrysler's is that it's confusing to get into Park. Most of these shifters, including Buick's, have a button that you push for Park. So no death.

12,000 RPM

Re: display life

A 10 year old car with in dash navigation is pretty run of the mill.... I think they will be fine. You have to figure, just designing around the extreme temperature variations a car cabin faces will basically guarantee against failure 99.999999% of the time for the usable life of the car. Plus that virtual cockpit doesn't have touch capability which removes another parameter to design for. Should be fine.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

giant_mtb

#1076
Quote from: ifcar on August 23, 2016, 06:56:06 AM
Because GM decided that was *more stylish*! Some designer put together a concept, then passed it along to the implementation folks and said "here, see where you can stick a window switch."

On another note, have you ever tried getting a steady business relationship with a car dealership (either new or used)?


I've done some overflow work for a local dealership before, but AFAIK basically all dealers do their own detailing.  Would be cool if I could get steady work from one, but I also have reservations about doing things for dealerships.  They want it done yesterday and it takes a week to get paid. 

I'd also add that I'm usually plenty busy during the summer without any contract work.  Though, it wouldn't be a bad thing to do some work for dealers over the winter slow season...hmmmm.  granted, winter is probably their slow season, too, so I dunno.

Raza

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

veeman

I remember the Shaq commercial where he sat comfortably behind the wheel of a Buick LaCrosse.  I think that car was modified :lol:


MrH

Future Father in law ordered a 2017 Chevy SS :rockon:

Blue, 6 speed manual, no sunroof, spare tire.  Pretty much exactly how I'd order it, except maybe Jungle Green instead.  He claims he's going to daily drive it except in the winter, when he'll use his Pilot.  He doesn't drive a ton of miles though.  He's 65 years old, so if he gets tired of driving a manual every day, I know just the guy who would buy it off of him :praise:
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV