Does GM build anything you want?

[Beau Tie]

Sigh. I guess if you want to play those games.

Sorry, but domestic cars are not substandard or inferior to imports. They were up until a few years ago. Believe me, I know. We traded in our 2003 Grand Prix (end of the lease) for a 2007 Toyota Camry LE. MISTAKE. The Camry has been inferior to our Grand Prix. Cornering and handling are worse on they Toyota Camry. The steering is loose, the dash creaks in the winter AND summer. No traction control and similar gas mileage for an engine with 2 less cylinders. All for a price that is more than our Grand Prix was. We got much less for our money.

We went out and test drove a equally equipped 2008 Malibu last month, and it was better than our Camry in every department. 

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Taking this conversation any furthur would be a waste of time with such a die hard blind to reality fan like yourself.

You want to change the parameters to fit your outcome, that sadly doesn't work in the real world(this isn't GM fantasy land).

From the WSJ, here's the link, click on the "Sales and share of total market by manufactuer" link and look at the chart. There you will find all the numbers.

All are 0ctober 08 numbers
GM 19.9
Ford 15.3
chyrsler 11.3

Add those up and you get 46.5, which is less than 50. Which makes the statement that the domestics sell LESS vehicles than imports in the US accurate.

Here is the facts, you're an idiot, don't bother responding.

[MX793]

Do I know that the G8 is imported from Holden in Australia, a General Motors company? No...do tell 

Because you chose the G8 (a car engineered, designed and built in Australia) over the Charger (a car engineered, designed and built in North America) whilst commenting how you would choose a domestic vehicle over its imported competition.

[Beau Tie]

Taking this conversation any furthur would be a waste of time with such a die hard blind to reality fan like yourself. Here is the facts, you're an idiot, don't bother responding.

Only a troll, such as yourself would resort to name calling and pass the same post above showing I bought a new 2007 Camry. Facts are, you have no reading comprehension skills. Don't bother typing until you read previous posts. I was speaking of the top 3 imports (Nissan, Toyota, Honda) vs. Ford, GM and Chrysler (the ones that compete against each other).

Work on your grammar and spelling as well. It's horrid. 

October 2008

GM: 168,719
Ford: 132,278
Chrysler: 94530
Total: 395,527

Toyota: 152,101
Honda: 85,864
Nissan: 56,945
Total: 294,910


Like most normal people and places, these are the brands that are compared. Oh, and yes, GM is still the number one selling brand in America. Not a single car manufacturer sold more cars than General Motors in October.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27516318/

That said, with your childish reply, you have lost credibility.

Because you chose the G8 (a car engineered, designed and built in Australia) over the Charger (a car engineered, designed and built in North America) whilst commenting how you would choose a domestic vehicle over its imported competition.

Who owns Holden? What is the subject line of this thread? Hint (Does GM build anything you want?).

This might help you polish up on Holden:

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/corporateinfo/companyprofile/companyprofile.jsp

http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/jsp/corporateinfo/enquiries/enquiries.jsp

http://www.holdencampaign.com.au/holdenhistory/

[2o6]

Beau Tie has a point.......you never said GM of america products.


That being said:

[Beau Tie]

Beau Tie has a point.......you never said GM of america products.


That being said:

Yup..love those cars too. I wouldn't mind getting this Park Ave:



Or this Caprice:

[SVT666]

Beau Tie has a point.......you never said GM of america products.

I think it goes without saying that I meant the North American market.  This is where we live after all.

[SVT666]

They do, unless you are using a blanket statement of all combined manufacturers in the U.S. As in Hyundai+Toyota+Nissan+Honda+Ferrari+Porsche+Kia+etc.

What else would I use?  Nowhere did you state you were talking about the top 3 imports until after we proved you wrong.  There is no way you can dismiss imports like Hyundai, Kia, VW, BMW, etc. since they all sell a significant amount of cars.  You said the majority of the buying public buys more domestics then they do imports.  That statement is totally and completely false.

And don't even try to call me a troll.  I am a big fan of a lot of GM's cars like the Malibu, G8, Cobalt SS, Corvette, CTS, Saab 9-3, Solstice, Sky, Astra, Yukon, Enclave, etc, but the problem is that in almost every case (not all), there is a more desirable product available from a different manufacturer.

[Beau Tie]

I think it goes without saying that I meant the North American market.  This is where we live after all.

It doesn't go without saying. And not everyone on this forum lives in NA. I provided GM cars (as requested in the thread title).

[SVT666]

Sorry, but domestic cars are not substandard or inferior to imports. They were up until a few years ago. Believe me, I know. We traded in our 2003 Grand Prix (end of the lease) for a 2007 Toyota Camry LE. MISTAKE. The Camry has been inferior to our Grand Prix. Cornering and handling are worse on they Toyota Camry. The steering is loose, the dash creaks in the winter AND summer. No traction control and similar gas mileage for an engine with 2 less cylinders. All for a price that is more than our Grand Prix was. We got much less for our money.

Sounds like you weren't very smart in your car buying.  If I test drove a vehicle and found all the problems you noted, I wouldn't have bought it.

[SVT666]

It doesn't go without saying. And not everyone on this forum lives in NA. I provided GM cars (as requested in the thread title).

For someone who just showed up on this board you are awfully argumentative.  It seems that the only two people on this board who didn't understand what I meant were you and 2o6.

[Beau Tie]

What else would I use?  Nowhere did you state you were talking about the top 3 imports until after we proved you wrong.

Well, we use Nissan, Honda and Toyota as the comparison of competition vs. the domestic cars in the U.S. overall. What else would I use to compare stats against? Even the article I posted only mention those 6 auto manufacturers.

There is no way you can dismiss imports like Hyundai, Kia, VW, BMW, etc. since they all sell a significant amount of cars. 

Significant?

838,156 cars were sold in the U.S. last month. 700,000 of those were Nissans, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Ford and Honda. 138,000 were Hyundai, Kia, VW, BMW, Jag, Mercedes, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche and others.

Just because you elect to disregard my figures in regards to the normal competition (where domestics are outselling their competition) isn't my problem.

And don't even try to call me a troll. 

I wouldn't care if you owned 5 billion domestic vehicles or liked them all. Anyone who resorts to name calling is a troll, and can't offer a mature debate. That means you have less credibility.

[Beau Tie]

For someone who just showed up on this board you are awfully argumentative.  It seems that the only two people on this board who didn't understand what I meant were you and 2o6.

I have been here since March. How did I "just show up"?

The only two? There are only 2 people disagreeing with me. Please, you are just trying to flamebait and troll for no apparent reason, other than to feel better about yourself. Let's have a mature debate.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Even if you were to use just the top 3 imports to show domestic superiority I wouldn't get to excited about the results. At the current rate things are going it's only a matter of months before even that cooked statistic will favor the imports.

As i type this GM is realeasing profit reports for the 3rd quarter, another statistic that no doubt contains a negetive symbol and the word Billion.

[Beau Tie]

Sounds like you weren't very smart in your car buying.  If I test drove a vehicle and found all the problems you noted, I wouldn't have bought it.

The problems were not as apparent when we first bought it. It wasn't snowing when we bought it, so we had no idea it was going to drive horrible in the winter. When we bought it, the dash didn't have any creaks in it. When we bought it, the steering was much tighter, as was the suspension. Over the past year and a half, those loosened up to the point of being about as agile as a Mercury Grand Marquis.

Tell me how we are supposed to know that stuff in advance. We can't, but you just elected to throw more flamebait out there. 

[Beau Tie]

Even if you were to use just the top 3 imports to show domestic superiority I wouldn't get to excited about the results. At the current rate things are going it's only a matter of months before even that cooked statistic will favor the imports.

As i type this GM is realeasing profit reports for the 3rd quarter, another statistic that no doubt contains a negetive symbol and the word Billion.

How could we be excited about them losing marketshare or those results? Unless of course you are encouraging domestic car makers to go out of business. I thought the debate here as that imports are more reliable and desirable than domestic cars?

Maybe it's just me, but Toyota was down 25% last month as well, and Honda over 30%. And Honda is also talking about looking at getting a loan to help bail them out of this crisis.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/eyeonasia/archives/2008/11/will_japans_car.html

Eye on Asia
Will Japan's carmakers catch bailout fever?
Posted by: Ian Rowley on November 06

Yet more grim earnings news in Japan today. Toyota, the last of Japan?s automakers to post its half-year results, has slashed its operating profit outlook by over 70% to $6.1 billion for its fiscal year which ends in March. Given it made $5.9 billion in the six months through Sept. 30, that means it will likely make only around $200 million in the second half of the year. Toyota exec Mitsuo Kinoshita said things were so bad that Toyota has formed an ?Emergency Profit Improvement Committee,? headed by CEO Katsuaki Watanabe.

Honda, Nissan and others have already slashed forecasts, albeit by smaller margins, but citing similar problems. Among them: the U.S sales slump, high raw materials costs and, for the Japanese makers, the soaring yen.

Of course, with no one yet projecting losses, the problems aren?t in the U.S. Big Three?s league, as Ford and GM?s results on Nov. 7 will no doubt highlight. Still, that didn?t stop Honda chief Takeo Fukui calling for the Japanese authorities to intervene to weaken the yen earlier today. Speaking at a the launch of the Honda Life, a minicar for the Japanese market, Fukui told reporters the government should step in after the yen?s recent surge against the dollar and other currencies. ?Of course (the government) should intervene,? Reuters reported Fukui as saying. Fukui?s comments were before Toyota?s weak forecasts.

To some extent, Fukui, who isn?t against the U.S. government aiding U.S. automakers, has a point. On Oct. 27, the yen surged to 90 to the dollar and is currently at 98. Back in 2003, when it was at a relatively weak 103, Japan stepped in to ease the pain. Against the euro and other currencies the rise has been even more pronounced. And there is little doubt the speed of the current surge is painful. In Toyota?s case, analysts say a one-yen appreciation of the Japanese currency against the dollar reduces earnings by around $450 million; a one yen appreciation against the euro costs $80 million. The numbers aren?t as brutal at smaller Honda but they still have a big impact.

Whether Fukui?s comments were well timed is another matter. As grim as things are getting for Japan?s car makers?not to mention Japan?s economy which will likely experience a recession?most analysts point out that with plenty of cash, ample fuel sippers and profits they?re in a strong position to capitalize from rivals? woes. And at a time when GM, Ford and Chrysler are all in serious trouble, asking for help in the currency markets is unlikely to go down with customers in the U.S., Honda?s most profitable market.

[SVT666]

Well, we use Nissan, Honda and Toyota as the comparison of competition vs. the domestic cars in the U.S. overall. What else would I use to compare stats against? Even the article I posted only mention those 6 auto manufacturers.

Significant?

838,156 cars were sold in the U.S. last month. 700,000 of those were Nissans, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Ford and Honda. 138,000 were Hyundai, Kia, VW, BMW, Jag, Mercedes, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche and others.

That is hardly an insignificant number of cars.  That's 16.5% of the total car sales.  How can you possibly ignore that?

Just because you elect to disregard my figures in regards to the normal competition (where domestics are outselling their competition) isn't my problem.

Your figures are skewed.  They only take into account enough of the imports to prove something that isn't true.  Nobody here wants the domestics to fail, but what we don't want is for misinformation to be used as fact in a discussion.

I wouldn't care if you owned 5 billion domestic vehicles or liked them all. Anyone who resorts to name calling is a troll, and can't offer a mature debate. That means you have less credibility.

I never called you names, and I'm not the one who is trolling here.

[Beau Tie]

I never called you names, and I'm not the one who is trolling here.

You are correct. It was not you. My bad, I apologize. I got my quotes messed up. It was FlatBlackCaddy that was trolling.

[SVT666]

You are correct. It was not you. My bad, I apologize. I got my quotes messed up. It was FlatBlackCaddy that was trolling.

Last I checked, calling someone names isn't trolling.  Anyone who expresses his BLIND love for a specific car company or model all the damn time is a troll...like Teuton with Subarus, me with Mustangs, Raza with Porsches, Beau Tie with Chevy.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Last I checked, calling someone names isn't trolling.  Anyone who expresses his BLIND love for a specific car company or model all the damn time is a troll...like Teuton with Subarus, me with Mustangs, Raza with Porsches, Beau Tie with Chevy.

And not every troll is bad, the ones that are completely blind and manipulate data to fuel their own fantasy are the ones that are worthless. Only one on the above list fits that description.

[Beau Tie]

And not every troll is bad, the ones that are completely blind and manipulate data to fuel their own fantasy are the ones that are worthless. Only one on the above list fits that description.

Don't be so hard on yourself 

Good thing I don't have blind love or faith for GM. Beau Tie is for my love of the Corvette. My favorite cars are from BMW, Mercedes, GM (including Opel and Holden), Porsche, Ferrari and Toyota.

I dislike Honda, Ford, Chrysler, Hyundai and Kia.

The only fantasy is the one that Flat just made up.

[2o6]

Last I checked, calling someone names isn't trolling.  Anyone who expresses his BLIND love for a specific car company or model all the damn time is a troll...like Teuton with Subarus, me with Mustangs, Raza with Porsches, Beau Tie with Chevy.

Oh no.......am I a troll?

[Beau Tie]

Oh no.......am I a troll?

Of course not. You have 4884 posts!

[SVT666]

Oh no.......am I a troll?

Yes.  Sorry for leaving you off the list 2o6.  You are a troll for anything Chinese and ugly.

[SVT666]

Of course not. You have 4884 posts!

What does post count have to do with it?  Raza has 3 million posts and he's a Porsche troll.  You have 3 posts and you are a troll.

[SVT666]

Good thing I don't have blind love or faith for GM.

You could've fooled me.

[2o6]

Yes.  Sorry for leaving you off the list 2o6.  You are a troll for anything Chinese and ugly.

NOoooooooo!!!!!!!!!! 

[Beau Tie]

Last I checked, calling someone names isn't trolling. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_(trolling)

Baiting is similar to trolling, baiters try to elicit a response from other users. The response is supposed to be embarrassing to the user in question, and humorous to others. Baiters frequently concentrate on unpopular groups (in that forum), such as pedophiles, fraudsters (often 419 fraudsters), religious fundamentalists and racists. Baiters do not need to make sense, and is often simply written to baffle the baitee, and to produce an interesting result. Baiting is similar to telephone prank calls, but often much more elaborate.

On Internet forums, baiting is sometimes used in attempts to empty forums or reduce a forum's usage. This type of baiting is usually done to make the atmosphere of a forum appear unpleasant or to make forum owners, moderators and long-time users look foolish. A person using this kind of baiting may post comments to elicit rude responses from prominent members of a forum, thus making the responding member or members appear as trolls or flamers to bystanders. As a result, forum users in general may become disgusted and leave the forum.

Yup, Flat falls into that.

[Beau Tie]

What does post count have to do with it?  Raza has 3 million posts and he's a Porsche troll.  You have 3 posts and you are a troll.

And you have 12,000 troll posts? At least your honest. 

Could have fooled you, but I didn't...cuz I set the record straight (which is important).

[Beau Tie]

What does post count have to do with it?

Exactly, which is why you assumed I was new here..because of my post count, though that has nothing to do with it. I am not new here.