New Cars No Longer Desirable?

Started by Colonel Cadillac, November 07, 2008, 10:48:27 AM

Colonel Cadillac

J86 made a great point in a recent post, that Audi puts out some of the few new cars he actually lusts for. I have started feeling exactly the same way. While the number of new cars has gone drastically up, want fewer and fewer of those new cars. For example, my favorite car a few years back was the 996 Turbo--it had incredible speed, AWD for snow and that sort, great style, great handling, but it had a fare share of flaws; it was prone to understeer, the interior was pretty low-quality, and there might have been a few more things wrong. However, the new 997 Turbo just does not do it for me. It seems too perfect (maybe not next to a GTR, but you get the picture). Cars these days are entirely too perfect and they're becoming less challenging and therefore less exciting. Describing the 996 GT3, R&T or C&D said, "A person with ADD would not be able to drive this car" or something along those lines, and I just don't see that anymore.  The E46 M3 did not have 40 different suspension/engine/transmission settings, you just got in the car and drove it fast. The E90/2 M3 has a ridiculous amount of technology to make the car work perfectly around the track provided you are not an idiot. I want the challenge back in driving.

This goes in line also with the fact that cars are too fast these days. Before my sister took the TSX for herself (my dad would "consider" a car for me for christmas, but no longer is that a possibility unless I can somehow get the Allroad), I would be able to drive around and regularly put my foot to the floor on the gas pedal--it's a pretty quick car, but it only has 200HP and something like 165 lb. ft. of torque. This summer, I drove my dad's Infiniti M35x everywhere and that is a very fast car, getting on the highway from a stop sign at the end of an onramp is great fun, trust me. However, around town, redlining or hitting the gas hard causes me to end up driving much too fast. In the TSX, I could drive the car pretty hard and still be driving at reasonable speed. It's more fun to be able to drive a car nearer to its limits, and cars these days have limits so high that it is becoming mundane or boring to drive.

Vinsanity

I believe you're going to be in the minority here. If you've ever had a 1984 tank of a Volvo that only had ~120 hp to get it going on its 14" whitewall tires, then complaining about having too much power or grip seems just as silly as complaining about having too much money.

the Teuton

I disagree, Vin. 

Drive an E46 M3 back-to-back with an E9x M3.  The new one feels like it will rip the old one apart on a straight line, but the old one just "fits."  It's like a glove. 

That, and the N54's torque makes the new V8 seem really undesirable to me especially considering that it doesn't have much of an exhaust note either when compared to the older M3s.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

Colonel Cadillac

Quote from: Vinsanity on November 07, 2008, 11:00:10 AM
I believe you're going to be in the minority here. If you've ever had a 1984 tank of a Volvo that only had ~120 hp to get it going on its 14" whitewall tires, then complaining about having too much power or grip seems just as silly as complaining about having too much money.

I suppose I should have specified. Really old cars with really not a lot of power still suck.

Vinsanity

Well, I do agree that there comes a point to which more power and sporting ability falls under the rule of diminishing returns, but IMO, sports cars are purpose-built machines designed to extract a maximum amount of performance for a given situation. I know there are cars like the Miata where the focus is more upon driver enjoyment, but you don't stop trying to improve upon your product because the existing standard is "good enough".

BimmerM3

I've driven some pretty quick cars (E46 M3, S2000, SRT-4, E60 535i), and I've never thought that they are/were too quick. I think the true problem here is the lack of driver/machine connection.

Soup DeVille

Yeah, I have to agree with that sentiment. Maybe I'm just becoming an old codger that's scared of change, but cars today seem to pack in so many things that I don't care about or flat out don't want.

Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Cookie Monster

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 07, 2008, 03:35:13 PM
Yeah, I have to agree with that sentiment. Maybe I'm just becoming an old codger that's scared of change, but cars today seem to pack in so many things that I don't care about or flat out don't want.


+1.

Only electronics I'd like in my car is a stereo with a decent sub. I don't care about the rest.
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

TBR

Quote from: thecarnut on November 07, 2008, 05:04:03 PM
+1.

Only electronics I'd like in my car is a stereo with a decent sub. I don't care about the rest.

I don't know, I rather like EFI.

Cookie Monster

Quote from: TBR on November 07, 2008, 05:11:44 PM
I don't know, I rather like EFI.
You know what I meant. :rage:

I would like to own a car with a carburetter engine though.
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

Soup DeVille

Quote from: TBR on November 07, 2008, 05:11:44 PM
I don't know, I rather like EFI.

Oh, definitely, but I was talking more about the "for your convienience" electro-nannies that will fold your mirrors, heat your coffee, cool your ass and call for help for you.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

TBR

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 07, 2008, 05:14:15 PM
Oh, definitely, but I was talking more about the "for your convienience" electro-nannies that will fold your mirrors, heat your coffee, cool your ass and call for help for you.

Power mirrors are very convenient for cars shared by multiple drivers. I don't really care for the rest though.

Secret Chimp

Quote from: thecarnut on November 07, 2008, 05:13:14 PM

I would like to own a car with a carburetter engine though.

Unless it is a fine sports automobile with Webers, no you wouldn't.


Quote from: BENZ BOY15 on January 02, 2014, 02:40:13 PM
That's a great local brewery that we have. Do I drink their beer? No.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: Secret Chimp on November 07, 2008, 05:24:06 PM
Unless it is a fine sports automobile with Webers, no you wouldn't.

Webers are pretty, but tempermental. In all honesty, I'd rather have a decent performance Q-jet.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Soup DeVille

Quote from: TBR on November 07, 2008, 05:23:28 PM
Power mirrors are very convenient for cars shared by multiple drivers. I don't really care for the rest though.

Not power adjustable mirrors, power folding mirrors.

They're just plain silly.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

TBR

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 07, 2008, 05:29:02 PM
Not power adjustable mirrors, power folding mirrors.

They're just plain silly.

Well that's true.

the Teuton

Here's what I'd keep or desire:

-Power windows (though not necessary)
-Power door locks (they're great, especially with full hands)
-Power mirrors (Because parallel parking without them on a curb sucks ass)
-AC (I used to have it and I loved it)
-Defrosters/heater (Duh...)
-Stereo with half-decent speakers and a CD player
-Heated seats would rock, but I don't need one

That being said, a turn of the century car would suit me just fine.  A lot of new cars just don't do it for me, either, especially with the high-belt styling.
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

GoCougs

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 07, 2008, 05:28:19 PM
Webers are pretty, but tempermental. In all honesty, I'd rather have a decent performance Q-jet.

That's even worse than the Chrysler/Carter Thermoquad.

The Carter AFB is about as good as a total package carb gets IMO.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: GoCougs on November 07, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
That's even worse than the Chrysler/Carter Thermoquad.

The Carter AFB is about as good as a total package carb gets IMO.

Q-jets have a bad rep because of the way they were setup from the factory. The design is sound.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

GoCougs

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 07, 2008, 07:08:44 PM
Q-jets have a bad rep because of the way they were setup from the factory. The design is sound.

You're better at it than I then - I've owned both Q-Jets and T-bogs, and no one could ever tune them worth a hoot. The AFB swap out was a dream.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: GoCougs on November 07, 2008, 07:13:58 PM
You're better at it than I then - I've owned both Q-Jets and T-bogs, and no one could ever tune them worth a hoot. The AFB swap out was a dream.

OK, so there is one big problem with the design- the primary throttle shafts leak vacuum. Putting bushings on that made a world of difference.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Rupert

Quote from: the Teuton on November 07, 2008, 06:06:17 PM
Here's what I'd keep or desire:

-Power windows (though not necessary)
-Power door locks (they're great, especially with full hands)
-Power mirrors (Because parallel parking without them on a curb sucks ass)
-AC (I used to have it and I loved it)
-Defrosters/heater (Duh...)
-Stereo with half-decent speakers and a CD player
-Heated seats would rock, but I don't need one

That being said, a turn of the century car would suit me just fine.  A lot of new cars just don't do it for me, either, especially with the high-belt styling.

You're weak, Teuton. Only time I've used power mirrors to parallel park has been while driving a giant crew-cab 2500. ;)

I like a heater/defroster and a stereo. If the car has more than two doors, I like power mirrors, but meh. AC is nice if I've got to make a bunch of trips across the desert in the summer (as recently). Power steering is good for lots of things, bad for others. The hell with airbags and all that safety crap.

Imagine how much better mileage you could get out of a car today if you could really make it lightweight and use a modern economy engine...
Novarolla-Miata-Trooper-Jeep-Volvo-Trooper-Ranger-MGB-Explorer-944-Fiat-Alfa-XTerra

13 cars, 60 cylinders, 52 manual forward gears and 9 automatic, 2 FWD, 42 doors, 1988 average year of manufacture, 3 convertibles, 22 average mpg, and no wheel covers.
PRO TENACIA NULLA VIA EST INVIA

Secret Chimp

I would like to point out that you don't need power mirrors, power windows, or power locks when your passenger side door is accessible just by leaning over :P


Quote from: BENZ BOY15 on January 02, 2014, 02:40:13 PM
That's a great local brewery that we have. Do I drink their beer? No.

hotrodalex

I'm fine with go cart-like sophistication, as long as it goes and it goes fast.

the Teuton

Quote from: Secret Chimp on November 07, 2008, 08:33:52 PM
I would like to point out that you don't need power mirrors, power windows, or power locks when your passenger side door is accessible just by leaning over :P

Hardy har har!
2. 1995 Saturn SL2 5-speed, 126,500 miles. 5,000 miles in two and a half months. That works out to 24,000 miles per year if I can keep up the pace.

Quote from: CJ on April 06, 2010, 10:48:54 PM
I don't care about all that shit.  I'll be going to college to get an education at a cost to my parents.  I'm not going to fool around.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2011, 01:13:53 PM
She'll hate diesel passenger cars, all things Ford, and fiat currency.  They will masturbate to old interviews of Ayn Rand an youtube together.
You can take the troll out of the Subaru, but you can't take the Subaru out of the troll!

SVT666

The biggest reason I'm such a Mustang whore is that it's still old school.  It's not packed with electronic nannies, adjustable suspensions, adjustable differentials, programmable this and that, 14 settings for the transmission, etc, etc.  It's got traction control that's 100% defeatable with the push of a button.  It's got soul and character that most other cars don't have because they are so sanitized and overly sophisticated.

S204STi

I can go either way on the topic... I love classic cars, and there are some truly iconic cars that either aren't for sale anymore or their successor wasn't as desireable for some reason.  Or their successor was desireable enough to knock the value down to a level I could afford.

There are also occasionally new cars that I like... but in general I am not thrilled with the direction that automakers are taking lately, with every car pushing the boundaries of size in the segment, and interior design and build quality basically on a plateau at this point, etc.  Generally the new cars always look uglier, weight more, and are not always better-performing than the previous model.

The only thing new cars have going for them are progressively better crash safety standards and equipment.  Take out the electronic nannies please, but leave the airbags and super-strong frames.

hotrodalex

I'm having a problem with the design of new cars. I guess companies feel the need to be "different" now and are designing weird cars. They need to learn that simple is the best way. Have one or two elegant/muscular/sporty/whatever design elements and let the rest of the car evolve around that. When you start adding in a ton of styling elements, the car looks too busy or flat out weird. I noticed this on the new Maxima. I just saw one today for the first time and it's horrible. There's too many lines going in every direction. Even with the odd headlights, they could have made it look a lot better had they made it flow better.

3.0L V6

Quote from: GoCougs on November 07, 2008, 07:07:25 PM
That's even worse than the Chrysler/Carter Thermoquad.

The Carter AFB is about as good as a total package carb gets IMO.

The Thermoquad was a decent setup....when it worked.

sportyaccordy

Jesus Christ you guys sure know how to cry.

There are a lot of awesome new cars.

IF you don't like them, buy an old one.