Symmetrical All Wheel Fail

[r0tor]

So apparently new Subarus with CVTs are utter garbage offroad... Best is all the butthurt Subaru fan comments

https://youtu.be/WjmIke01KqE

(for reference a number of CUVs have made it up the course rather easily)

[12,000 RPM]

The only people taking Japanese CUVs offroad are people who make videos like this

There was a Forester in the intermediate group at the track day...... should we start doing CUV track tests too

[r0tor]

No excuses for a company that has been touting its awd for 3 decades now ... The XC40, eclipse cross whatever, and even a CRV has made it up that trail.

Subaru has cheaped out with their lousy cvt

[GoCougs]

Nah, no fail - it's a car with w/out low range (and not a lot of power) - just wasn't built for this. 

[Galaxy]

Nah, no fail - it's a car with w/out low range (and not a lot of power) - just wasn't built for this. 

It seemed to be so concerned with preventing wheel spin, that it ended it braking all 4 wheels.

Btw, the Jeep had open diffs?

[93JC]

A limited-slip rear diff was optional in some years, but most Cherokees had open front and rear diffs, yes.

[r0tor]

Nah, no fail - it's a car with w/out low range (and not a lot of power) - just wasn't built for this. 

No, it has plenty of power to do the job... Subaru cuts power at all cost to protect the cvt

[giant_mtb]

I see they went with the Rugged Radios version of the Baofeng handie-talkie...pfff, 2x the price for a different sticker and blue shell.

[MX793]

Subarus have never had a reputation for being off-road monsters (rally racing excluded, but that's a different kind of off-road).

Few CUVs make it to the top of that hill.  Even some better equipped (e.g. locking center diffs) than the Outback have failed.  The Highlander didn't make it as far as the Outback (despite locking center diff) and the Honda Pilot (advanced terrain management system and a locking center diff, IIRC) made it about as far.  The current generation Nissan Pathfinder (also a CVT) made it about as far.  A Dodge Durango failed to make it up stage 3 (not that I really consider it a "crossover", nor the XJ nor latest LR Disco for that matter...  Unibody != crossover).  The Hyundai Kona barely made it up stage 2, and threw a transmission overheat warning twice just trying to make it that far.

[Soup DeVille]

Yeah, Subarus are what I call "trailhead vehicles.". They're great at bringing bikes or kayaks or gear to the trailhead, down rough unimproved roads- that can still be called roads. Older ones can do a bit more in a pinch,  but they're cars, man; not mud trucks.

That being said, I've seen more than one Subie go places that trucks can't.

[r0tor]

Subarus have never had a reputation for being off-road monsters (rally racing excluded, but that's a different kind of off-road).

Few CUVs make it to the top of that hill.  Even some better equipped (e.g. locking center diffs) than the Outback have failed.  The Highlander didn't make it as far as the Outback (despite locking center diff) and the Honda Pilot (advanced terrain management system and a locking center diff, IIRC) made it about as far.  The current generation Nissan Pathfinder (also a CVT) made it about as far.  A Dodge Durango failed to make it up stage 3 (not that I really consider it a "crossover", nor the XJ nor latest LR Disco for that matter...  Unibody != crossover).  The Hyundai Kona barely made it up stage 2, and threw a transmission overheat warning twice just trying to make it that far.

Yes, it's well established most CUVs suck

Also the locking center diff on the Highlander and older Honda products is complete bullshit because they disengage and 15mph or ~20% peak torque because the rear driveline is not engineered for more then 20% of the peak torque.

[giant_mtb]

Yes, it's well established most CUVs suck

Also the locking center diff on the Highlander and older Honda products is complete bullshit because they disengage and 15mph or ~20% peak torque because the rear driveline is not engineered for more then 20% of the peak torque.

Betcha a Roxor would idle right up that hill with its silly low range bullshit and pathetic torque.

[2o6]

These systems are really just for getting you unstuck from mud and snow. Pretty sure an Active Drive I Jeep something or other would do just as "badly".



I honestly don't see the big deal. No one is really rock crawling with these things.

[MX793]

Also, the AWD System Subaru uses in the 4AT and CVT models is inferior to the system they use with other powertrains.  This system is front biased (60/40) and supposedly can go to 50/50 on demand (and apparently the clutch can "lock" it at 50/50).  MT-equipped Subies have a full-time 50/50 split and can shift up to 80% to either axle.

I suspect the reason the Eclipse Cross made it was because it could put more than 50% to either axle (up to 60% to the rear).

[12,000 RPM]

Yes, it's well established most CUVs suck

Then why are 3 of the top 5 selling vehicles in the US CVT equipped CUVs? Could it be that absolutely nobody is buying them to go offroad, or is it something more r0torish like "amrecia car buyr poopie hed"?

[MX793]

Yes, it's well established most CUVs suck

Also the locking center diff on the Highlander and older Honda products is complete bullshit because they disengage and 15mph or ~20% peak torque because the rear driveline is not engineered for more then 20% of the peak torque.

What does an older Honda product have to do with a late-model Pilot?  Toyota's system disengages at 25 mph.  The older VTM-4 Honda system in the Ridgeline deactivated at 18.  Nobody is hammering up narrow goat trails like the ones in the video at anywhere near those speeds.  Pretty sure they weren't going more than 10 mph at any point on that trail.  Probably weren't even going 5 at the 2nd and 3rd stages.

I can find literally nothing about the current Toyota Highlander/Rav system that indicates that it disengages at 20% peak engine torque output.  The lock disengages when 25 mph has been reached or if the brakes are applied.  Nor for the iVTM4 system in the Honda Pilot (which is the system used in the Ridgeline, not the same as the CR-V).

[GoCougs]

It seemed to be so concerned with preventing wheel spin, that it ended it braking all 4 wheels.

Btw, the Jeep had open diffs?

No, it has plenty of power to do the job... Subaru cuts power at all cost to protect the cvt

I'm gonna say no. Wheels were turning a bit and the engine was revving - why brake all 4 wheels instead of cutting throttle and why cut power but let the engine rev and strain?

At only 175 hp and car gearing, an Outback just can't put the power down.

[Soup DeVille]

I'm gonna say no. Wheels were turning a bit and the engine was revving - why brake all 4 wheels instead of cutting throttle and why cut power but let the engine rev and strain?

At only 175 hp and car gearing, an Outback just can't put the power down.

Oh no, there was no point on that trail that required more than 175 HP. Hell, there was no point that required more than about 50.

It was pretty clear the system was fighting itself.

[r0tor]

I'm gonna say no. Wheels were turning a bit and the engine was revving - why brake all 4 wheels instead of cutting throttle and why cut power but let the engine rev and strain?

At only 175 hp and car gearing, an Outback just can't put the power down.

... It did cut power...

[r0tor]

These systems are really just for getting you unstuck from mud and snow. Pretty sure an Active Drive I Jeep something or other would do just as "badly".



I honestly don't see the big deal. No one is really rock crawling with these things.

Nope
https://youtu.be/oYjwG4sFyhM

[r0tor]

Then why are 3 of the top 5 selling vehicles in the US CVT equipped CUVs? Could it be that absolutely nobody is buying them to go offroad, or is it something more r0torish like "amrecia car buyr poopie hed"?

These videos also explain why most CUVs are absolutely terrible in even small snow storms... The average American buyer has no idea what they are even buying

[2o6]

Nope
https://youtu.be/oYjwG4sFyhM

The Renegade Trailhawk isn't Active Drive I, it's active drive Low,


Yet and still. Who cares?

[MrH]

r0tor is on a crusade to prove Jeep is superior to other brands because their garbage cross overs can rock climb better than Subaru...???

[Soup DeVille]

Then why are 3 of the top 5 selling vehicles in the US CVT equipped CUVs? Could it be that absolutely nobody is buying them to go offroad, or is it something more r0torish like "amrecia car buyr poopie hed"?

These videos also explain why most CUVs are absolutely terrible in even small snow storms... The average American buyer has no idea what they are even buying

lol, yep.

[Soup DeVille]

To be fair, my wife's relatives did not understand the difference between the Pilot and the Land Cruiser.

"I don't get it, you said the one you had before wasn't very good off road"

"Well, that was a Honda, this is a Toyota, and even then it was mostly good enough."

"If you want real 4WD you have to get yourself something American and stop playing with that Jap stuff."

"yeah, sure."

[Laconian]

I rented a Jeep for two weeks. If driving like complete garbage is the price for going up extreme trails, then the Jeep can have it. I'll keep the Subaru.

[12,000 RPM]

These videos also explain why most CUVs are absolutely terrible in even small snow storms... The average American buyer has no idea what they are even buying

Never change r0tor. You are probably the last person on Google Earth who still thinks people are buying CR-Vs to hit the trails

[Lebowski]

Never change r0tor. You are probably the last person on Google Earth who still thinks people are buying CR-Vs to hit the trails

Why else would they buy one?  It has less interior space than a compact sedan.

[12,000 RPM]

Good god no not again

*has roomy crossover*
*forces family into compact sedan to make point to CarSPIN*

[GoCougs]

Oh no, there was no point on that trail that required more than 175 HP. Hell, there was no point that required more than about 50.

It was pretty clear the system was fighting itself.

Correct; without 4Lo the Subaru can't put the power down because the gearing is too tall.

Subaru isn't going to design a system that "fights itself" by letting the driver strain the motor against the brakes or CVT.