Symmetrical All Wheel Fail

Started by r0tor, August 24, 2018, 07:11:06 PM

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2018, 06:50:21 AM
Well, because they don't fit down most trails, were 90 grand when new, and just don't make a lot of sense as daily drivers.

That being said, I do tag along with a couple of military vehicle groups (the MVPA being the big one), and yeah; they are.

(on the power argument, they're also 6000 lb vehicles with 190 Hp- but proper gearing- which makes them a real power house when being chased around by 13,000 lb M35s with 120 HP)

Besides the stupid availability of parts, Humvees would be great for the wider areas. I'm sure a lot of Humvees are up for auction recently.
Will

MX793

#61
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2018, 06:50:21 AM
Well, because they don't fit down most trails, were 90 grand when new, and just don't make a lot of sense as daily drivers.

That being said, I do tag along with a couple of military vehicle groups (the MVPA being the big one), and yeah; they are.

(on the power argument, they're also 6000 lb vehicles with 190 Hp- but proper gearing- which makes them a real power house when being chased around by 13,000 lb M35s with 120 HP)

The old WWI "Landship" heavy battle tanks the Brits used only had about 100 hp and weighed near 60,000 lbs.  Didn't go much over walking pace, but they'd roll over anything in their path.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Soup DeVille

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on August 27, 2018, 10:12:33 AM
Besides the stupid availability of parts, Humvees would be great for the wider areas. I'm sure a lot of Humvees are up for auction recently.

They are (check Gov Planet), and many are going for under 10 grand in near-serviceable condition. But they're rough, and many of them have blown out their transmissions (not a huge deal as they're basically beefed up TH400s, and cheap).

Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

CaminoRacer

Quote from: MX793 on August 27, 2018, 09:52:48 AM
It doesn't have the suspension setup to tackle rough terrain at speed.  Mahindra governs these to 45 mph (in America) and I saw one video reviewer say he wouldn't want to go faster than that off of pavement because the vehicle was rather "bouncy" and would tend to buck front to back, making it both very difficult to control and cause sea-sickness.

Not surprised. I've seen those videos of WW2 Jeeps bouncing all over the place
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on August 27, 2018, 05:31:58 AM
...The Roxor has 60hp...

And a bunch of torque and low range. That's the point.  Low grunt and gearing are importanté.

r0tor

Quote from: giant_mtb on August 27, 2018, 11:08:06 AM
And a bunch of torque and low range. That's the point.  Low grunt and gearing are importanté.

If you want to putz around at garden tractor speed - then yes, power is not that important
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

12,000 RPM

So are you attacking courses like this like a baja truck? :wtf:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

CaminoRacer

2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

r0tor

Only on carspin will people go to ends of the intertards to defend spending $20k on an indian copy of a 60 year old jeep
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

12,000 RPM

Quote from: r0tor on August 27, 2018, 02:34:07 PM
Only on carspin will people go to ends of the intertards to defend spending $20k on an indian copy of a 60 year old jeep



You are the SPIN's top "go to the ends of the intertards to argue/defend stupid shit" enthusiast

Do we need to recap your greatest hits??? My favorite was you completely losing your shit over Lebowski casually tossing your dream car.... like the star quarterback one nighting the dweeb's dream girl :lol:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

r0tor

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

I should also add after what like 1 or 2 years later the "winner" still has a wickedly sore ass  :popcorn: :muffin:
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

Trying to decide what is more pathetic... A Subaru that shuts off all power, or a Toyota diff "lock" AWD that sends power to exactly 1 wheel

Hmmm  :hmm:
https://youtu.be/7mUtiJgBTnU

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Soup DeVille

Well, clearly if you want to park your car diagonally on a shipping dock ramp, you need a humvee.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

r0tor

Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2018, 06:58:13 PM
Well, clearly if you want to park your car diagonally on a shipping dock ramp, you need a humvee.

Or maybe at least a bmw
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

MrH

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 27, 2018, 03:40:51 PM


Do we need to recap your greatest hits??? My favorite was you completely losing your shit over Lebowski casually tossing your dream car.... like the star quarterback one nighting the dweeb's dream girl :lol:

Holy shit that analogy was spot on hahaha
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

MX793

Quote from: r0tor on August 27, 2018, 05:51:44 PM
Trying to decide what is more pathetic... A Subaru that shuts off all power, or a Toyota diff "lock" AWD that sends power to exactly 1 wheel

Hmmm  :hmm:
https://youtu.be/7mUtiJgBTnU



@ ~2:00 - Based on the amount o fdust coming from under the car and the patch of freshly churned dirt, I'm going to say it was spinning 1 front and 1 rear wheel, which is what you'd get with a 4x4 with open front and rear diffs.  Seems like the center lock is doing what it's supposed to.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

GoCougs

Quote from: r0tor on August 27, 2018, 05:51:44 PM
Trying to decide what is more pathetic... A Subaru that shuts off all power, or a Toyota diff "lock" AWD that sends power to exactly 1 wheel

Hmmm  :hmm:
https://youtu.be/7mUtiJgBTnU



Posting these videos isn't going so well...

It's peg legging F & R (see 2:29 - 3:30) - it's never spinning only one tire. This is common for 4WD vehicles with open differentials F & R, which a Highlander is bound to have.

Also, the driver purposefully chose to stop on off camber situations and add to that relatively low profile street tires at street pressure, and you get lousy off road performance.


giant_mtb

#78
Quote from: r0tor on August 27, 2018, 01:04:47 PM
If you want to putz around at garden tractor speed - then yes, power is not that important

What, uhhh...but...what were they doing on this course in the Subaru?  Oh, that's right. Tractoring. I know your high strung sports coupé doesn't understand it, but.

I know you have absolutely no concept of ever driving off road, but please stop trying. You haven't a clue, and you make it more obvious every day.

r0tor

Quote from: GoCougs on August 27, 2018, 09:38:16 PM
Posting these videos isn't going so well...

It's peg legging F & R (see 2:29 - 3:30) - it's never spinning only one tire. This is common for 4WD vehicles with open differentials F & R, which a Highlander is bound to have.

Also, the driver purposefully chose to stop on off camber situations and add to that relatively low profile street tires at street pressure, and you get lousy off road performance.



No, it's just a turd

https://youtu.be/47oZFQqxPU8
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

#80
Quote from: MX793 on August 27, 2018, 09:29:04 PM
@ ~2:00 - Based on the amount o fdust coming from under the car and the patch of freshly churned dirt, I'm going to say it was spinning 1 front and 1 rear wheel, which is what you'd get with a 4x4 with open front and rear diffs.  Seems like the center lock is doing what it's supposed to.

So why bother with a "diff lock" if you can't even get basic traction control figured out?


Just basic marketing fluff for another CUV as capable as a fwd sedan
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

Quote from: giant_mtb on August 27, 2018, 10:27:51 PM
What, uhhh...but...what were they doing on this course in the Subaru?  Oh, that's right. Tractoring. I know your high strung sports coupé doesn't understand it, but.

I know you have absolutely no concept of ever driving off road, but please stop trying. You haven't a clue, and you make it more obvious every day.

Yes, please justify $20k for something able to putz along at garden tractor speed and incapable of doing any technical crawling due to open diffs vs its competition where you can do the same plus actually have some higher speed fun when things open up...

... Or just buying an actual wrangler which is capable of driving itself to the trail...
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

MX793

Quote from: r0tor on August 28, 2018, 05:32:01 AM
Yes, please justify $20k for something able to putz along at garden tractor speed and incapable of doing any technical crawling due to open diffs vs its competition where you can do the same plus actually have some higher speed fun when things open up...

... Or just buying an actual wrangler which is capable of driving itself to the trail...

1.  What are you considering the "competition"?  This is a utility SBS, not a sport SBS.  It doesn't compete with the RZR and similar.  It competes with the Gator and Mule.  Both are similarly or less powerful and slower (Gators can only do like 32 mph).  Also less capable both on a trail and as a workhorse (Roxor can tow over 3000 lbs, useful for moving farm wagons and equipment).  Mule, Gator, Ranger, etc all cost about the same as the Roxor.

2.  Wrangler is too wide to be operated on many/most public ATV trails.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

GoCougs

Quote from: r0tor on August 28, 2018, 05:25:30 AM
No, it's just a turd

https://youtu.be/47oZFQqxPU8


That X1 does not have open diffs (or in the least has torque vectoring) and it's also a more expensive vehicle.

But these videos aren't helping you. The reaction time of the X1 is so slow it's really not that much more capable off road vs. the Highlander.

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on August 28, 2018, 05:32:01 AM
Yes, please justify $20k for something able to putz along at garden tractor speed and incapable of doing any technical crawling due to open diffs vs its competition where you can do the same plus actually have some higher speed fun when things open up...

... Or just buying an actual wrangler which is capable of driving itself to the trail...

You'd be amazed what you can get away with without lockers. With low range and grunt. ;)

r0tor

#85
Quote from: GoCougs on August 28, 2018, 09:26:02 AM
That X1 does not have open diffs (or in the least has torque vectoring) and it's also a more expensive vehicle.

But these videos aren't helping you. The reaction time of the X1 is so slow it's really not that much more capable off road vs. the Highlander.

Lol.. Yea it has open diffs and no, no torque vectoring... It's just not a piece a crap

Even Kia has their shit together better
https://youtu.be/Ail1jaVgovY
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

Quote from: MX793 on August 28, 2018, 06:17:40 AM
1.  What are you considering the "competition"?  This is a utility SBS, not a sport SBS.  It doesn't compete with the RZR and similar.  It competes with the Gator and Mule.  Both are similarly or less powerful and slower (Gators can only do like 32 mph).  Also less capable both on a trail and as a workhorse (Roxor can tow over 3000 lbs, useful for moving farm wagons and equipment).  Mule, Gator, Ranger, etc all cost about the same as the Roxor.

2.  Wrangler is too wide to be operated on many/most public ATV trails.

Mules and Gators can be had for less than 1/2 the price. 

Why the hell would a farmer buy a $20k Roxor to move 3000 lbs of farm equipment when they could just get a beater truck to move 3x that?

In an atv trail I'd rather be on an atv or something that can keep up with one.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

2o6


Soup DeVille

Quote from: giant_mtb on August 28, 2018, 09:35:38 AM
You'd be amazed what you can get away with without lockers. With low range and grunt. ;)

Lockers were a relative rarity on the trails until a decade or so ago, and many vehicles did just fine without them. Yes, you often had to be smart and choose your line carefully; instead of like these videos where the driver chooses the worst line and the worst techniques in order to prove a point.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Soup DeVille

Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator