http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304419104579324932370762274 (http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304419104579324932370762274)
QuoteLuxury Auto Makers Fill Lineups With Dizzying Array of Models
BMW, Audi, Lexus and Others Are Producing So Many Variations That Dealers Can't Stock Them All
Want a BMW ? Go to one of the German car maker's showrooms and you might not find what you want because there are so many models that few dealers carry them all.
BMW AG this week unveiled the 2 Series, filling the only gap between its 1 and 7 Series, excluding SUV and coupe derivatives. Fifteen years ago, the Bavarian auto maker essentially offered just five different vehicles—the 3, 5 and 7 Series sedans, the X5 SUV and Z4 roadster.
There are so many today that BMW is advising dealers to remove sales cubicles to make more room for cars. The company also wants to use flat-screen displays to help customers understand the dizzying array of choices. BMW is looking to set up centralized fleets so shoppers can test-drive them all. The idea: dealers won't have to stock each version.
"The physical environment is not capable of handling all of the product portfolio," explained Ian Robertson, BMW's global sales and marketing chief.
In pursuit of higher sales and younger customers, BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota Motor Corp. have shifted into overdrive, at least in the proliferation of models lines, variations and the alphanumeric names.
Toyota's Lexus brand this year will add a sporty coupe, the RC. In Detroit this week, it showed an RC F high-performance version with a 500-horsepower engine. So, too, Nissan Motor Co. 's Infiniti brand presented a new small car, the Q30. A concept car with a 500-horsepower engine signaled Infiniti soon could be rolling out high-powered versions of its line. Bentley Motors Ltd., the British upper crust brand, used the Detroit show to present a new version of its Continental GT, the V8 S, not to be confused with the Continental GT V8.
But few car makers are revving up new models as fast as the Germans. Audi added a Q3 small SUV. A concept car shown in Detroit suggests a Q1 is on the way, too. Mercedes-Benz is adding a small SUV, the GLA. On the drawing board are a sleek, coupe version of its flagship S-class sedan, and new Mercedes Maybach to compete in the class of cars priced at $150,000 and above.
It is a risky game. Sometimes what seems like a great idea flops in the market. One example: Mercedes's R-Class, a luxury minivan introduced in 2006 and now no longer sold in the U.S.
"It's kind of overwhelming," said Derrick Oxender, of Ann Arbor, Mich., who has been looking at Audi's SUVs. "The Q7 is probably too big, so we're looking at the Q5. Not sure if we want diesel or gas. I'm going down to the auto show next week to take a look at them."
Asked about the smaller Q3, he replied: "There's a Q3? I'll have to check that out, too."
Mercedes, BMW and Audi all now offer small, midsize and large sedans, two-door coupe variants of those, plus several SUVs—all available in standard as well as high-performance form.
BMW designates its extra muscle cars with the letter M, Audi with S and R, and Mercedes with AMG.
All told, BMW has 100 different models and versions—about double what it sold two years ago. Porsche, in addition to its dozen Cayenne versions, makes the 911 sports car in 15 different forms, including turbo, convertible and a new Targa with a head-turning automated sunroof.
"We work with this question of proliferation all the time," Porsche Chief Executive Matthias Mueller said. In view of Porsche's U.S. sales, a record 162,000 cars in 2013, he said the decision to expand has been on the mark so far.
Steve Cannon, head of Mercedes-Benz U.S.A., said all the variants help upscale brands attract the highly coveted under-34 "Gen Y" generation. They aren't necessarily wowed by the sedans that traditionally populate the model lines of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi and others, he noted.
"You have to get them with something new," he said. "Then give them other options to stay with your brand."
Mr. Cannon's boss, Andreas Renschler, said the expansion in the brand's product lineup is driven by the market, and the diversity of customer needs and the pressure to offer something new. "After two years," he said, "a car is old."
Lot of marketing :facepalm: in here, though I think the point about plain jane sedans not appealing to "Gen Y"ers is legit. Aside from the 3 series segment, nobody besides Mr. H in my age group is interested in those land yachts. An E class is something for a mom with teenage kids to drive. S Class is a Fortune 500 livery. Bad thing though is cars can't change dramatically every year like clothes or phones. And people aren't switching cars like clothes or phones. So it seems kind of silly.
Under 34 crowd has never been into those "traditional land yachts" simply because they've never been able to afford a new E Class, 5er, etc.
Meh, I see a puff piece to justify the lol/SMH/ :facepalm: existence of the the new (and awful) ultra poseur class (CLA, A3, 2 series, etc.).
Not down at all for CLA or A3 (but I'm with the S3), but I have a hankering for a 2-series
As the former owner of an E class, I wouldn't go near a car that unnecessarily big again, unless I had kids or worried about status.
Nowhere in tha article does it say that too much choice is a "bad thing". And considering the sales and profits of the german automakers, I don't see any complaining from the people that really matter: their shareholders.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 29, 2014, 08:20:59 PM
Under 34 crowd has never been into those "traditional land yachts" simply because they've never been able to afford a new E Class, 5er, etc.
Meh, I see a puff piece to justify the lol/SMH/ :facepalm: existence of the the new (and awful) ultra poseur class (CLA, A3, 2 series, etc.).
The poseur/poor-man's argument is tired and stupid.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on November 30, 2014, 12:18:03 PM
Nowhere in tha article does it say that too much choice is a "bad thing". And considering the sales and profits of the german automakers, I don't see any complaining from the people that really matter: their shareholders.
I'm saying its a bad thing. And the Germans are the forefathers of the most profitable automotive segment where brand cachet is crucial. Plus they know and steer their market. But that doesnt mean everything they are doing is perfect.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 29, 2014, 02:17:04 PM
http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304419104579324932370762274 (http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304419104579324932370762274)
Lot of marketing :facepalm: in here, though I think the point about plain jane sedans not appealing to "Gen Y"ers is legit. Aside from the 3 series segment, nobody besides Mr. H in my age group is interested in those land yachts. An E class is something for a mom with teenage kids to drive. S Class is a Fortune 500 livery. Bad thing though is cars can't change dramatically every year like clothes or phones. And people aren't switching cars like clothes or phones. So it seems kind of silly.
Get on my level sporty. Get a VIP'ed out S-class :lol:
Naw I gotta stay low. Aint tryna go out like OG Double D (R.I.P.) (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/suspect-named-in-2013-maybach-murder/nfhYc/)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 30, 2014, 04:10:34 PM
I'm saying its a bad thing. And the Germans are the forefathers of the most profitable automotive segment where brand cachet is crucial. Plus they know and steer their market. But that doesnt mean everything they are doing is perfect.
They still sell in strong enough numbers where a profit is turned and their clientele is better served.
I'm all for new product in which the Indistrial designers focus more attention to solve the needs of more minute market segments and demographics.
There's nothing wrong with more choices.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 01, 2014, 10:34:07 AM
They still sell in strong enough numbers where a profit is turned and their clientele is better served.
I'm all for new product in which the Indistrial designers focus more attention to solve the needs of more minute market segments and demographics.
There's nothing wrong with more choices.
What needs do the 4 series GC/3GT/X3/X4/3 wagon serve that isn't served by another model in the range
U could prob cut a 3rd of BMW's model range and still have a solid high volume lineup.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2014, 10:55:12 AM
What needs do the 4 series GC/3GT/X3/X4/3 wagon serve that isn't served by another model in the range
U could prob cut a 3rd of BMW's model range and still have a solid high volume lineup.
Why do you want to cut product that is serving and creating clientele?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2014, 10:55:12 AM
What needs do the 4 series GC/3GT/X3/X4/3 wagon serve that isn't served by another model in the range
U could prob cut a 3rd of BMW's model range and still have a solid high volume lineup.
Let's see:
- GC : A stylish 3 series that enough people are willing to pay extra for @ very low incremental manufacturing cost for BMW = more profits.
- X3 : Really? You don't understand why an SUV is profitable for a large automaker these days?
- X4 : See GC above.
- 3 GT : People who want more space but don't care that much about style, again at minimal additional cost.
- 3 Wagon : People in Europe and in fantasy, enthusiasts in the US that don't really exist to justify it.
Really Sporty, this armchairing the industry from an everyman's pespective has gone too far. I'm not saying everything the germans do is necessarily right, but if these niche products weren't profitable they wouldn't keep chugging along at the same strategy. Point is with manufacturing advances it doesn't cost that much - relatively - to bring out these variants on the same platform.
We sell a surprising amount of 3 GT's at my job. Many people are intimidated by an SUV.
Also, the 3GT is packaged differently, and sits taller and more upright and has a bigger back seat than the 3 series sedan and wagon.
You have to admit at least the concept of the 4 GC is fucking stupid. It's the sedan version of the coupe version of the sedan. I don't want the sedan, so I'll pay more for the coupe version. But I want the practicality of four doors, so I'll pay slightly less, but still more than the sedan, for the sedan version of the coupe version!
I think the 4GC is the best 3 series. Most practical form & best looking too.
How is it the most practical form?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 06:07:49 AM
I think the 4GC is the best 3 series. Most practical form & best looking too.
Huh? The 4GC is smaller on almost every interior dimension than the 3 series and slightly worse highway gas mileage (probably due the the extra width that's there for no reason).
Now you can say that the 4GC's extra price is absorbed by the standard leather seats with adjustable lumbar and standard HIDs, but it's definitely not more practical.
And I don't know how you can say it's better looking, since it looks exactly like a 3 series with some mild ricing. If it weren't for that vent, other than side by side I wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 06:07:49 AM
I think the 4GC is the best 3 series. Most practical form & best looking too.
Maybe you're thinking of the 3-series gran turismo? That's the really really practical one. Huge back seat room, really versatile cargo area, etc.
Gran Coupe is a bit tighter than the standard 3-series sedan.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 06:07:49 AM
I think the 4GC is the best 3 series. Most practical form & best looking too.
It's the least practical form! Rear seat room is compromised, and the doors are tiny. The Liftback shape adds almost nothing to practicality. I'd rate it less practical than Regular coupe.
Also, it looks weird.
GT is a damn SUV. 3 series Rondo. 4GC is a hatchback so it wins. Didnt know the back seat was tighter but eh
Both the 4/6 GC and 3/5 GT are goofy, ugly vehicles IMO. Blurring lines between categories that didn't need to be combined and confusing as far as product lineup. Same goes for the X4 and X6.
As long as the dealers aren't forced to stock everything, I don't see the problem. Each individual dealer can learn which products its own customers are interested in. And I'm sure this already happens with particular options, like northern BMW dealers stocking all AWD instead of RWD cars, or some dealers doing brisk trade with Z4s while others won't touch them.
Besides regional variation within the US, the same is true worldwide. The 4-Series Gran Coupe is the most similar to an Audi A5 Sportback and will probably be more popular than the sedan in Europe, while the 3-Series and A4 sedans will dominate in the US. They're already building both anyway, so why not offer them both in the US?
It's only the automaker, not the customer, who suffers from excess choice -- at some point they risk spending money on products to appeal to buyers who'd have bought something else from them anyway. But it doesn't seem that BMW is having too much trouble with this.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 03, 2014, 01:01:01 PM
GT is a damn SUV. 3 series Rondo. 4GC is a hatchback so it wins. Didnt know the back seat was tighter but eh
So you're just talking shit and don't actually know?
The 3GT is not an SUV nor it as tall as an SUV. The 3 and 4 series is actually comparatively low slung.
And they're both hatchbacks. The 4GC has a big ass console splitting the floor pam and rear seats, and the roofline is lower than the 3-series.
It's not practical.
Quote from: Lebowski on December 04, 2014, 05:27:49 AM
Both the 4/6 GC and 3/5 GT are goofy, ugly vehicles IMO. Blurring lines between categories that didn't need to be combined and confusing as far as product lineup. Same goes for the X4 and X6.
We sell more 6GC's rather than 6 coupes.
My boss has a 4GC. It looks really nice and from inside you can't even tell it's a 4 banger while driving/riding around in it.
It always struck me as weird as to how small it is inside compared to it's external size.
More choice is a good thing because it hastens the demise of the dealership model. I believe in Europe you can get a VW golf for example in one of 36 different colors.
It's like Amazon vs (Circuit City or CompUSA and only a matter of time BestBuy).
The 4GC looks good, but BMW totally fucked up their naming scheme with it and the 6GC. Odd numbers = 4 doors, and even numbers = 2 doors.
Quote from: SVT666 on December 04, 2014, 08:14:28 AM
The 4GC looks good, but BMW totally fucked up their naming scheme with it and the 6GC. Odd numbers = 4 doors, and even numbers = 2 doors.
Not quite.
I don't think they could call it 5-series or 3-series
Quote from: veeman on December 04, 2014, 08:13:48 AM
More choice is a good thing because it hastens the demise of the dealership model. I believe in Europe you can get a VW golf for example in one of 36 different colors.
It's like Amazon vs (Circuit City or CompUSA and only a matter of time BestBuy).
Amazon's business model is shit for workers though. Plus there will always be the used market.
I'm fine with the model proliferation.
Here in Mexico however, BMW's pricing has gotten out of hand in the last 3 years or so. While inflation has been low, BMW and to some extent the other euro premium brands have gone wild with increases.
I paid $780,000 pesos for both my E90 M3 and my 1M. The M4 today goes for TWICE that, and the M235i is as expensive as the 1M was. They added a 3rd year of warranty and free service since I got my cars but it's insane.
The 4er Gran Coupe looks so much better than the current 3er sedan. Sleeker, sexier and sportier. The 3er looks totally bland next to a 4er Gran Coupe IMO.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on December 04, 2014, 08:43:46 AM
The 4er Gran Coupe looks so much better than the current 3er sedan. Sleeker, sexier and sportier. The 3er looks totally bland next to a 4er Gran Coupe IMO.
I agree that it's the best looking variant. A pity that it's also one of the heaviest.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 04, 2014, 08:52:47 AM
I agree that it's the best looking variant. A pity that it's also one of the heaviest.
If BMW can make an X5 M and X6 M handle like a sports car, then the extra weight of the 4er Gran Coupe shouldn't be a problem IMO.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 04, 2014, 08:52:47 AM
I agree that it's the best looking variant. A pity that it's also one of the heaviest.
I like the 3 touring the best in regards to style.
Ironically, I'm not sure what place the 2 series actually has. It's probably the most pointless model
2 series is what the 3 series once was. A no bullshit sports coupe. Once my kids are of front facing seat age I want an M235i. They will be cheap enough by then.
No one really buys this model
Nobody really buys any of the 3 variants anywhere near as much as they do the sedan
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 04, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
I'm fine with the model proliferation.
Here in Mexico however, BMW's pricing has gotten out of hand in the last 3 years or so. While inflation has been low, BMW and to some extent the other euro premium brands have gone wild with increases.
I paid $780,000 pesos for both my E90 M3 and my 1M. The M4 today goes for TWICE that, and the M235i is as expensive as the 1M was. They added a 3rd year of warranty and free service since I got my cars but it's insane.
What's the value of the Peso relative to the Euro done during that period?
Quote from: CLKid on December 04, 2014, 10:13:06 AM
What's the value of the Peso relative to the Euro done during that period?
Stable!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 04, 2014, 10:04:14 AM
Nobody really buys any of the 3 variants anywhere near as much as they do the sedan
But sales of the 2-series is far smaller
Quote from: Lebowski on December 04, 2014, 05:27:49 AM
Both the 4/6 GC and 3/5 GT are goofy, ugly vehicles IMO. Blurring lines between categories that didn't need to be combined and confusing as far as product lineup. Same goes for the X4 and X6.
We finally agree on something! It hasn't happened in years.
Quote from: thecarnut on December 04, 2014, 06:53:25 AM
My boss has a 4GC. It looks really nice and from inside you can't even tell it's a 4 banger while driving/riding around in it.
It always struck me as weird as to how small it is inside compared to it's external size.
The name-only coupes are often like that. When my friends and I would go some place together, we almost always took my Jetta over their CC, since my Jetta felt roomier.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on December 04, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
I'm fine with the model proliferation.
Here in Mexico however, BMW's pricing has gotten out of hand in the last 3 years or so. While inflation has been low, BMW and to some extent the other euro premium brands have gone wild with increases.
I paid $780,000 pesos for both my E90 M3 and my 1M. The M4 today goes for TWICE that, and the M235i is as expensive as the 1M was. They added a 3rd year of warranty and free service since I got my cars but it's insane.
That's shitty. Price gouging. <1% of population can afford a BMW over there and so they're banking on this <1% still ponying up the cash. Is the coffee at the dealership at least gourmet? :)
Quote from: veeman on December 04, 2014, 12:20:15 PM
That's shitty. Price gouging. <1% of population can afford a BMW over there and so they're banking on this <1% still ponying up the cash. Is the coffee at the dealership at least gourmet? :)
If those cars get much more expensive, they'll be packing them in coffee to get them through customs.