Can ZAP Move $1 Billion in smarts?
U.S. car customizer ZAP shocked DaimlerChrysler by placing an order for $1 billion worth of smart fortwo minicars from DaimlerChrysler.
While Mercedes-Benz has tabled its plans to launch smart in the U.S. because of a bleak profit forecast, the cost of federalizing the cars and iffy demand, California-based ZAP has figured a way to economically handle the safety and environmental adjustments so well that Mercedes sent engineers to the company earlier this year to see how they managed it. "ZAP placed the purchase order directly to the DaimlerChrysler Group in an effort to expedite delivery of U.S. compliant smart cars to consumers. ZAP is still waiting for confirmation that smart GmbH will fulfill the purchase order," the Santa Rosa, Calif., company said in a statement. The order was for 76,500 cars at a total price of $1.03 billion. Zap said it has received more than $1 billion in orders from U.S. dealers for Americanized versions of the smart. Whether DaimlerChrysler fills the order remains to be seen.
The company is torn between booking the income and conceding the launch of the brand in the U.S. to a company it doesn't control.
Conventional wisdom says that U.S. drivers would not a car as small as the smart fortwo, especially because of the explosion in big SUVs on American roads. But there is demand from environmentalists, individualists, companies who want to use the easily parkable cars in big cities like New York, San Francisco, Chicago and Boston, as well as companies that want to turn the funny-looking minicars into rolling advertising placards.
Mercedes executives have speculated that there may be a market of 10,000 fortwos a year in the U.S. Dealers, it seems, disagree.
If I had the money I'd buy one...just for fun, though. Cool that they're bringing them to the US.
I bet they could sell them. They would have REALLY target key regions though. I highly doubt many people in the south or "flyover country" would have much use for such a vehicle. But the big cities of the east coast could prove profitable.
QuoteI bet they could sell them. They would have REALLY target key regions though. I highly doubt many people in the south or "flyover country" would have much use for such a vehicle. But the big cities of the east coast could prove profitable.
I'd say a fair number of California ex-hippies would be willing to take them on as well. <_<
There would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out. The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.
QuoteThere would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out. The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.
The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.
QuoteQuoteThere would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out. The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.
The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.
You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?
QuoteQuoteQuoteThere would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out. The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.
The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.
You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?
I've never driven it, but from what Wimmer has said, it isn't at all (unless your idea of fun is getting a nice parking space and getting stares while driving).
High, narrow car with a short wheelbase isn't exactly a winning formula for nimble handling.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThere would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out.? The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.
The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.
You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?
I've never driven it, but from what Wimmer has said, it isn't at all (unless your idea of fun is getting a nice parking space and getting stares while driving).
High, narrow car with a short wheelbase isn't exactly a winning formula for nimble handling.
I didnt realize it was like that...I thought a nice, small, car with a small wheelbase should have excellent handling. But I didnt realize it was so tall and narrow.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThere would be a tremednous demand for them....kind of like the Mini when it came out. The Smart would be the new 'in' thing, which many people would buy.
The Mini had the benefit of being fun-to-drive, and still came with a back seat.
You dont think the Smart is fun to drive?
I've never driven it, but from what Wimmer has said, it isn't at all (unless your idea of fun is getting a nice parking space and getting stares while driving).
High, narrow car with a short wheelbase isn't exactly a winning formula for nimble handling.
I didnt realize it was like that...I thought a nice, small, car with a small wheelbase should have excellent handling. But I didnt realize it was so tall and narrow.
When the wheelbase is that small, it does more harm than good, in handling anyway.
I've seen four or five of these in Ottawa, and I don't really see what is so great about them, other than the size and the fuel economy. ;)
I've seen lots of them around Calgary. At least 30, which is a lot for a brand new car. There's one that occasionally parks down the street from my house.
Conceptually they're a great idea, as is the case with most of the "city-cars" ever made. In practice they are far too expensive for what they are. Had they been priced at or below $10,000 they'd sell a whole hell of a lot more of them. As it is they're subcompacts priced comparably to compacts, and on the higher end begin to infringe on base-model midsizers.
I can understand the reasoning behind the pricing: they're imported from Europe. I'm sure that adds a substantial amount to their price. But in the end they're still $20,000 cars that feel like they should be $10,000 or less. They're expensive to buy, but they're made from the cheapest materials out there. Fit is okay, but finish is atrocious.
To top it all off they're not fun to drive like you'd expect. They understeer like a mo' fo'. This is probably a design choice in order to prevent snap-oversteer, but it's still annoying. The semi-automatic transmission shifts very slowly and with pronounced jerking, sucking more fun out of it.
I wish Zap good luck. They're going to need it.
I think its taller than a Crown Vic! :o
but it's a cool car. Rear engine, RWD. :praise:
QuoteI think its taller than a Crown Vic! :o
but it's a cool car. Rear engine, RWD. :praise:
Is a CV supposed to be incredible tall? And its not a fun car, (as I learned from Ifcar) since its way to high.
What is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
QuoteQuoteI think its taller than a Crown Vic! :o
but it's a cool car. Rear engine, RWD. :praise:
Is a CV supposed to be incredible tall? And its not a fun car, (as I learned from Ifcar) since its way to high.
it's about average for the large car class, and a smart is a micro car, so it's very tall!
QuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
QuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
i'm pretty sure it doesn't have a diesel.
QuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....
QuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.
Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....
It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....
It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.
yes, but wouldn't the car be incredibly noisy going at top speed? the engine and vibrations, etc. :blink:
QuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.
Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.
nice. you know the performance and curbweight specs?
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....
It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.
yes, but wouldn't the car be incredibly noisy going at top speed? the engine and vibrations, etc. :blink:
You can't tell that sort of thing from specs, only from driving it, or at least reading a reveiw.
I have another question: since the car is so tall, and is nearly as wide as it's tall, woldn't it be incredible unstable at highspeeds?
QuoteI have another question: since the car is so tall, and is nearly as wide as it's tall, woldn't it be incredible unstable at highspeeds?
Most probably. Which is why it would be best to use it for what its meant for...a cute little city roundabout.
QuoteI have another question: since the car is so tall, and is nearly as wide as it's tall, woldn't it be incredible unstable at highspeeds?
Not too bad with the right suspension tuning, and I believe it has standard stability control.
QuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.
Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.
That sounds very adequet. I bet ZAP will be able to sell most of the ForTwo's. They're "cute" which will REALLY help, and the added bonus of really good fuel economy will help greatly.
another question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink: :( :o
Quoteanother question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink: :( :o
Probably not good.
Quoteanother question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink: :( :o
They've got a very strong structure, apparently. There are large vehicles in Europe too. ;)
QuoteQuoteanother question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink: :( :o
Probably not good.
SUV owner: Damn, another Smart to pick out of my grille! :lol:
of course, it's not a laughing matter, but im questioning if they're safe for the SUV laden roads of the USA.
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.
Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.
nice. you know the performance and curbweight specs?
0-100km/h (~62mph) in 19.8 seconds and a curb weight of 730kg (1609lbs) for the coup? and 740kg (1631lbs) for the cabriolet.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed in a Canadian-market fortwo is electronically limited to 135km/h, or 81mph.
Canadian-market fortwos come with a 40hp 0.8L I3 turbodiesel, but Zap's order is for the 60hp turbocharged gasoline engine sold only in Europe. It meets all emissions standards, including California's.
nice. you know the performance and curbweight specs?
0-100km/h (~62mph) in 19.8 seconds and a curb weight of 730kg (1609lbs) for the coup? and 740kg (1631lbs) for the cabriolet.
wow. do you have to floor it just to keep up with traffic from a red light??/
QuoteQuoteQuoteanother question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink:? :(? :o
Probably not good.
SUV owner: Damn, another Smart to pick out of my grille! :lol:
of course, it's not a laughing matter, but im questioning if they're safe for the SUV laden roads of the USA.
Supposedly it is very safe. (link) (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/traffic.cfm)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....
It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.
You must not get out much, 70 mph is the speed limit on most typical interstates and 75 mph isn't very unusual.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteanother question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink: :( :o
Probably not good.
SUV owner: Damn, another Smart to pick out of my grille! :lol:
of course, it's not a laughing matter, but im questioning if they're safe for the SUV laden roads of the USA.
Supposedly it is very safe. (link) (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/traffic.cfm)
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/crash.jpg)
WTF?? that looks very fake.
Quotewow. do you have to floor it just to keep up with traffic from a red light??/
Don't know. I've never driven one myself. The version sold by Zap is 50% more powerful, and it is a 0-6
2mph time, so 19.8s might be a misleading figure. I'd imagine it keeps up just fine in city traffic.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....
It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.
You must not get out much, 70 mph is the speed limit on most typical interstates and 75 mph isn't very unusual.
Perhaps out on the rural interstates, but the Smart definitely wasn't designed with road tripping in mind.
Quote(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/crash.jpg)
WTF?? that looks very fake.
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c6b.jpg)
It isn't.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat is the top speed in those things, and they have a diesel right? Would the fact that the emissions laws are getting strictor hinder their ability to sell them all? I am a bit skeptical about their success in the U.S.
Top speed is probably around 80 mph, maybe 70 mph.
well, that sucks. 70mph isn't enough for us highways....
It most certainly is. The highest speed limit that I'm aware of is 65, so it can do the speed limit in the right lane and get along just fine.
You must not get out much, 70 mph is the speed limit on most typical interstates and 75 mph isn't very unusual.
Perhaps out on the rural interstates, but the Smart definitely wasn't designed with road tripping in mind.
Excellent point, I didn't even think about that.
QuoteQuote(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/crash.jpg)
WTF?? that looks very fake.
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c6b.jpg)
It isn't.
ahh. i see. i didn't see that view. and actually, that looks quite painful, so i think i'll steer clear of smarts for now.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteanother question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink: :( :o
Probably not good.
SUV owner: Damn, another Smart to pick out of my grille! :lol:
of course, it's not a laughing matter, but im questioning if they're safe for the SUV laden roads of the USA.
Supposedly it is very safe. (link) (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/traffic.cfm)
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/crash.jpg)
WTF?? that looks very fake.
That is because it was taken after the actual collision once the cars had settled.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteanother question: are these things safe?? they're PUNY, plus the engine is out in the rear. I don't wanna know what a head on with an SUV would look like. :blink: :( :o
Probably not good.
SUV owner: Damn, another Smart to pick out of my grille! :lol:
of course, it's not a laughing matter, but im questioning if they're safe for the SUV laden roads of the USA.
Supposedly it is very safe. (link) (http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/traffic.cfm)
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/crash.jpg)
WTF?? that looks very fake.
That is because it was taken after the actual collision once the cars had settled.
no, it looked fake because the front part of the smart that's visible in the pic looks undamaged, so it looked like the merc had taken all the damage, and the smart had just bumped off (if you see what i mean).
Quoteno, it looked fake because the front part of the smart that's visible in the pic looks undamaged, so it looked like the merc had taken all the damage, and the smart had just bumped off (if you see what i mean).
That's basically what happened.
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c10b.jpg)
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c11b.jpg)
Rest assured the smart is not a deathtrap.
QuoteQuoteno, it looked fake because the front part of the smart that's visible in the pic looks undamaged, so it looked like the merc had taken all the damage, and the smart had just bumped off (if you see what i mean).
That's basically what happened.
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c10b.jpg)
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c11b.jpg)
Rest assured the smart is not a deathtrap.
So one bounce off a car into a ditch and the car is finished.
QuoteQuoteno, it looked fake because the front part of the smart that's visible in the pic looks undamaged, so it looked like the merc had taken all the damage, and the smart had just bumped off (if you see what i mean).
That's basically what happened.
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c10b.jpg)
(http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/images/c11b.jpg)
Rest assured the smart is not a deathtrap.
was this a 40mph crash?
The damage to the E-Class looks so bad because it has a sizeable crumple zone, while the Smart doesn't. What speed was this collision?
QuoteThe damage to the E-Class looks so bad because it has a sizeable crumple zone, while the Smart doesn't. What speed was this collision?
It looks to be at least 40mph.
I don't know what speed it is. Go to the link I provided and find out for yourselves.
QuoteI don't know what speed it is. Go to the link I provided and find out for yourselves.
I went. Looks to be about 40mph from the video. The Smart got crumpled in the front!
Watch the overhead view...the Smart just wraps around the E Class.
But overall, the Smart did really well.
Me and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
QuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
QuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
QuoteQuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
they're practical.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
they're practical.
Theyre really small, so I dont know how practical they really are. Whats the storage capacity?
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
they're practical.
Theyre really small, so I dont know how practical they really are. Whats the storage capacity?
There are different types of practicality. Interior/cargo space makes a car practical to some, and easy parking, a tight turning radius, and excellent fuel economy make it practical for others. The Smart would be practical for the latter people, but not the former.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
they're practical.
Theyre really small, so I dont know how practical they really are. Whats the storage capacity?
There are different types of practicality. Interior/cargo space makes a car practical to some, and easy parking, a tight turning radius, and excellent fuel economy make it practical for others. The Smart would be practical for the latter people, but not the former.
Thats basically what I'm saying...if you want to make a trip to your local Wal Mart, this isnt the car to take.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
they're practical.
Theyre really small, so I dont know how practical they really are. Whats the storage capacity?
There are different types of practicality. Interior/cargo space makes a car practical to some, and easy parking, a tight turning radius, and excellent fuel economy make it practical for others. The Smart would be practical for the latter people, but not the former.
Thats basically what I'm saying...if you want to make a trip to your local Wal Mart, this isnt the car to take.
This is a city car, and city folk traditionally hate Wal-Mart. ;)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
they're practical.
Theyre really small, so I dont know how practical they really are. Whats the storage capacity?
There are different types of practicality. Interior/cargo space makes a car practical to some, and easy parking, a tight turning radius, and excellent fuel economy make it practical for others. The Smart would be practical for the latter people, but not the former.
Thats basically what I'm saying...if you want to make a trip to your local Wal Mart, this isnt the car to take.
This is a city car, and city folk traditionally hate Wal-Mart. ;)
I didnt realize that ;)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteMe and my sister couldn't stop laughing at those things when we were in Italy...
why?
I guess they look kind of comical, and they are so small that they fit in anywhere.
they're practical.
Theyre really small, so I dont know how practical they really are. Whats the storage capacity?
There are different types of practicality. Interior/cargo space makes a car practical to some, and easy parking, a tight turning radius, and excellent fuel economy make it practical for others. The Smart would be practical for the latter people, but not the former.
Thats basically what I'm saying...if you want to make a trip to your local Wal Mart, this isnt the car to take.
but in sf or nyc, where parking is limited, the smart would be like a dream. it's only as long as a motorcycle, so you can park it perpendicular to the curb and not have it stick out on the street.