I'm so sick of these new stupid, peppy, hippy-like Prius commercials with the annoying ass song and the computer-generated thousands of people dressed up in flower, grass, and plant costumes. What a bunch of fucking wankers. I definitely wouldn't EVER want to buy a Prius as a man after seeing one of those homosexual, Californian, hippy commercials. It just fuels the stereotype for the wankers that drive those lunch boxes.
[/rant]
I have never seen those Prius commercials (Toyota doesn't even bother much to advertise the car here) but... :hesaid: :thumbsup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq4nrmnqY9o
:facepalm:
Californian? :facepalm:
Lots of liberal environmentalist nutjobs out there.
:huh:
giant_mtb, I couldn't agree more. I guess they have their demographic figured out, and it sure doesn't include men, other than those on the other team. I don't think I've seen such a heavy-handed feminine commercial before, even for cars deemed to be 'chick cars.'
Definitely...they really targeted the demographic with those commercials. But perhaps they've alienated others that are not in that specific demographic that were thinking about purchasing a Prius. Before, I was "meh" about them. After those commercials...I wouldn't be caught dead buying one.
:facepalm:
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 07, 2009, 12:55:39 PM
Lots of liberal environmentalist nutjobs out there.
:huh:
There are a lot of hicks in Michigan, and for that matter, there are a LOT of hicks in New York state. Generalization=bad.
Those liberal environmentalist "nutjobs" are from coastal California. Inland California is not quite liberal.
Besides, I'm all for environmental preservation. That said, it is a stupid ad.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 07, 2009, 01:05:30 PM
Definitely...they really targeted the demographic with those commercials. But perhaps they've alienated others that are not in that specific demographic that were thinking about purchasing a Prius. Before, I was "meh" about them. After those commercials...I wouldn't be caught dead buying one.
:facepalm:
I imagine that the typical male buyer was turned off to Priuses even before this commercial, so Toyota must figure they won't be further alienated because they wouldn't have bought the car in the first place.
I've always thought of the Prius as a weenie car, not necessarily for gay buyers, per se, but for guys who cowtow to liberal causes and don't like to assert their masculinity too much because that whole liberal-enviro crowd finds masculinity vaguely offensive. Many, in fact most, of these guys probably aren't gay, but they buy into that whole liberal agenda that often includes acceptance of the notion that men are oppressive, cause most of the world's problems, etc., and that masculinity is a problem that needs to be controlled rather than a positive part of the world. Many of these guys are out to prove that men don't have to be as terrible as the liberal feminists say we are, and that we believe we must make amends for the thousands of years of abuse and oppression that we have singlehandedly inflicted upon the world. This commercial just confirms and ratchets up that perception.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 01:13:53 PM
I imagine that the typical male buyer was turned off to Priuses even before this commercial, so Toyota must figure they won't be further alienated because they wouldn't have bought the car in the first place.
I've always thought of the Prius as a weenie car, not necessarily for gay buyers, per se, but for guys who cowtow to liberal causes and don't like to assert their masculinity too much because that whole liberal-enviro crowd finds masculinity vaguely offensive. Many, in fact most, of these guys probably aren't gay, but they buy into that whole liberal agenda that often includes acceptance of the notion that men are oppressive, cause most of the world's problems, etc., and that masculinity is a problem that needs to be controlled rather than a positive part of the world. Many of these guys are out to prove that men don't have to be as terrible as the liberal feminists say we are, and that we believe we must make amends for the thousands of years of abuse and oppression that we have singlehandedly inflicted upon the world. This commercial just confirms and ratchets up that perception.
What a ridiculous generalization.
Quote from: ifcar on June 07, 2009, 01:15:10 PM
What a ridiculous generalization.
On the contrary, I think it contains a lot of truth. Is it 100% accurate? Of course not. But there's some truth there.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 01:16:13 PM
On the contrary, I think it contains a lot of truth. Is it 100% accurate? Of course not. But there's some truth there.
Only as much truth as "BMW drivers are jerks."
Quote from: ifcar on June 07, 2009, 01:18:11 PM
Only as much truth as "BMW drivers are jerks."
Many BMW drivers are jerks. I've never denied that. And the whole premise of the marketing is targeted to 'jerks' in a lot of ways. BMW certainly doesn't discourage the purchase of their cars by obnoxious 'badge hunters' who want to announce their success to the world.
Marketing is based upon making generalizations about buyers and groups of buyers that, while not true 100% of the time, are true enough of the time to produce good sales, and not alienate large numbers of potential buyers. This commercial proves that I'm right in what I say is the general profile of the male Prius buyer.
Quote from: ifcar on June 07, 2009, 01:18:11 PM
Only as much truth as "BMW drivers are jerks."
Except that the Prius' is kinda
for buyers like what Dazzle described and is marked and aimed towards them too, whereas BMWs aren't primarily aimed towards jerks.
You know I don't see all that big a deal about this add. It's about what I'd expect for a car like this. Is it my cup of tea? No, not really.
Is it targeted at the people who will want one? Probably.
I don't give a shit about a tv add anyway. I still drive a Mazda after all those lame ass Zoom Zoom ones. And even with that hot ass Jill Wagner woman in the Mercury adds I still don't want one.
And who really uses the word "wanker?"
Quote from: Onslaught on June 07, 2009, 01:25:24 PM
You know I don't see all that big a deal about this add. It's about what I'd expect for a car like this. Is it my cup of tea? No, not really.
Is it targeted at the people who will want one? Probably.
I don't give a shit about a tv add anyway. I still drive a Mazda after all those lame ass Zoom Zoom ones. And even with that hot ass Jill Wagner woman in the Mercury adds I still don't want one.
And who really uses the word "wanker?"
Wanker is more of a British term, I thought, but I've heard it used to a limited extent here in the US. Maybe it's not popular in the south.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 01:28:33 PM
Wanker is more of a British term, I thought, but I've heard it used to a limited extent here in the US. Maybe it's not popular in the south.
I know of it and who uses it. I've just never seen it on this site I don't think. Is he a limey?
Quote from: Onslaught on June 07, 2009, 01:31:53 PM
I know of it and who uses it. I've just never seen it on this site I don't think. Is he a limey?
I don't think so. I think he's from Michigan.
I find the term "wanker" sort of humorous, actually. There's another term "wank" which means to pleasure yourself. I heard that used once by an Australian, but I never heard it any other time.
Quote from: Onslaught on June 07, 2009, 01:31:53 PM
I know of it and who uses it. I've just never seen it on this site I don't think. Is he a limey?
I've seen it on this site but nowhere else from Americans. I think it spread from Clarkson to a few influential members here.
I say it as a joke myself sometimes. Just because it's different and kind of funny sounding. But I'd use other words to describe something I really didn't like.
I did have an American in a mini call me a wanker one time. I thought he was some kind of loser trying to be British.
Haha, I was wondering how long it would take for this thread to happen.
I find an illogical hatred for hybrids from "Car guys" myself. I don't really want one or like the ones out now. But I don't give a fuck that other people do like them.
I don't have a problem with hybrids, though I think they're overhyped. And there's some question as to whether the disposal problems related to their batteries outweigh the benefit from their better gas mileage. They're not quite as clean and green as they're billed to be.
My problem with them is more the sort of people who buy them -- phony, hypocritial, self-congratulatory posturers, in a lot of cases. Many people buy them because they want to be part of a certain crowd, can't really think for themselves, and don't know or care whether the car really lives up to its environmmental billing.
I haven't seen this comercial personally, but I do kind of like the Insight ones.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 02:17:22 PM
I don't have a problem with hybrids, though I think they're overhyped. And there's some question as to whether the disposal problems related to their batteries outweigh the benefit from their better gas mileage. They're not quite as clean and green as they're billed to be.
My problem with them is more the sort of people who buy them -- phony, hypocritial, self-congratulatory posturers, in a lot of cases. Many people buy them because they want to be part of a certain crowd, can't really think for themselves, and don't know or care whether the car really lives up to its environmmental billing.
My understanding was that the batteries are recyclable?
As for the people, I know what you're saying. But then again some sports car fans are just as bad as the green people.
Quote from: Xer0 on June 07, 2009, 02:26:27 PM
I haven't seen this comercial personally, but I do kind of like the Insight ones.
Hint: Click the YouTube link in the 3rd post of this thread. :lol:
Quote from: Onslaught on June 07, 2009, 01:31:53 PM
I know of it and who uses it. I've just never seen it on this site I don't think. Is he a limey?
It was a rant. And in my furious typing, the word "wanker" came out. My apologies. :huh:
What the heck's a limey? Michigan.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 07, 2009, 03:55:05 PM
It was a rant. And in my furious typing, the word "wanker" came out. My apologies. :huh:
What the heck's a limey? Michigan.
No apologies necessary.
A "Limey" is a slang word used to describe the British. They used Limes to help prevent scurvy in the British Navy for a long time. So our navy started calling them "Limeys."
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 07, 2009, 03:53:56 PM
Hint: Click the YouTube link in the 3rd post of this thread. :lol:
I know but I'm at work and this is about the only site that isn't blocked :lol:
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 02:17:22 PM
My problem with them is more the sort of people who buy them -- phony, hypocritial, self-congratulatory posturers, in a lot of cases. Many people buy them because they want to be part of a certain crowd, can't really think for themselves, and don't know or care whether the car really lives up to its environmmental billing.
That's exactly how I feel about it. The Prius is the "in" thing to do. While other hybrids will do the job, nobody will notice that you're "saving the planet."
Oddly enough, whenever I see a Prius, I think about that South Park episode where all Prius drivers loved the smell of their own farts.
(http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/south_park_smug.jpg)
The hatchback's nice...
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 01:13:53 PM
I imagine that the typical male buyer was turned off to Priuses even before this commercial, so Toyota must figure they won't be further alienated because they wouldn't have bought the car in the first place.
I've always thought of the Prius as a weenie car, not necessarily for gay buyers, per se, but for guys who cowtow to liberal causes and don't like to assert their masculinity too much because that whole liberal-enviro crowd finds masculinity vaguely offensive. Many, in fact most, of these guys probably aren't gay, but they buy into that whole liberal agenda that often includes acceptance of the notion that men are oppressive, cause most of the world's problems, etc., and that masculinity is a problem that needs to be controlled rather than a positive part of the world. Many of these guys are out to prove that men don't have to be as terrible as the liberal feminists say we are, and that we believe we must make amends for the thousands of years of abuse and oppression that we have singlehandedly inflicted upon the world. This commercial just confirms and ratchets up that perception.
I never thought of the Prius ads as "masculine" or "feminine". Really, It's just a regular, upbeat ad.
Take another look at that ad, Kevin. It's suffocatingly feminine.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 05:40:27 PM
Take another look at that ad, Kevin. It's suffocatingly feminine.
Yet again: a nice, upbeat and colorful ad.
If you say so...:rolleyes:
A feminine add is probably the right one. Most of the people I see in a Prius are females.
Females and weenie males...the ad is probably perfect for the target audience -- which isn't any of us.
Quote from: Onslaught on June 07, 2009, 06:02:00 PM
A feminine add is probably the right one. Most of the people I see in a Prius are females.
Or dudes that have definetly checked their man card out.
The only Prius owner I know well is a male engineer who also has an old GTI. He treats his Prius like a nifty new electronic gadget.
I've seen this commercial probably half a dozen times but haven't really paid any attention to it. I didn't even notice there were people inside those flowers and stuff! Yeah, it struck me as a pretty hippy-dippy commercial but that's the demographic this car is pitched at.
This is the only Prius driver I whom I actually like.......
(http://i.treehugger.com/files/family-guy-prius-01.jpg)
Cheers,
Madman of the People
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 02:17:22 PM
I don't have a problem with hybrids, though I think they're overhyped. And there's some question as to whether the disposal problems related to their batteries outweigh the benefit from their better gas mileage. They're not quite as clean and green as they're billed to be.
My problem with them is more the sort of people who buy them -- phony, hypocritial, self-congratulatory posturers, in a lot of cases. Many people buy them because they want to be part of a certain crowd, can't really think for themselves, and don't know or care whether the car really lives up to its environmmental billing.
I've never met one of those Prius drivers...
Quote from: Psilos on June 07, 2009, 07:10:38 PM
I've never met one of those Prius drivers...
Don't bore me with the facts..... :lol:
I'm sure not every Prius driver is like that, but that's the image they have.
It might be the image, but that's not their problem. I know three people who have Priuses, and all three are very intelligent, rational, logical, etc. One is an old geology prof, one is an old family friend, and one is my boss (and his wife). None of them fit any of the stereotypes you have for them, other than being liberal and environmentalists. In fact, I have never encountered any of the common Prius stereotypes (bad drivers, arrogant, gay or female, wussy, buying into the hype, etc.).
It's the same as calling BMW drivers dickheads, mentioned above, Miata owners gay, Subaru drivers lesbians, minivan drivers boring, 1979 Monte Carlo owners poor...
The stereotype fits to a tee - especially that of hypocrite - for if they truly believed the green hype they'd simply buy a used compact.
This is called "broken morality." And yes Psilos, you can use that without cite.
Oh, Cougs, I knew you'd understand.
Quote from: Psilos on June 07, 2009, 10:37:15 PM
It's the same as calling BMW drivers dickheads, mentioned above, Miata owners gay, Subaru drivers lesbians, minivan drivers boring, 1979 Monte Carlo owners poor...
Man those are all true!
Now where are my gold chains... I took them off to wash my mullet.
:lol:
I didn't find that commerical that bad, at least it was somewhat unique and memorable. It's better than the usual forgettable car commerical where you get some artsy shots of a car driving around and some suave man's voice talking about how one trivial feature is awesome. Also at least it's out to sell a product (and a rather successful product). Also it sure beats the new GM ad where they show a string of non car related events while apologizing. They don't even sell a product. They waste what is basically tax payer money on a commerical that does nothing but apologize for messing up and wasting a ton of taxpayer money. :rolleyes:
Quote from: GoCougs on June 08, 2009, 12:10:38 AM
The stereotype fits to a tee - especially that of hypocrite - for if they truly believed the green hype they'd simply buy a used compact.
This is called "broken morality." And yes Psilos, you can use that without cite.
I don't think I've seen a single person buy it to "save the enviornment". Many people opt to buy them over a similar midsizer to save gas.
I'm a limey, and yes, Priuses are for wankers.
Quote from: Psilos on June 07, 2009, 10:37:15 PM
It might be the image, but that's not their problem. I know three people who have Priuses, and all three are very intelligent, rational, logical, etc. One is an old geology prof, one is an old family friend, and one is my boss (and his wife). None of them fit any of the stereotypes you have for them, other than being liberal and environmentalists. In fact, I have never encountered any of the common Prius stereotypes (bad drivers, arrogant, gay or female, wussy, buying into the hype, etc.).
It's the same as calling BMW drivers dickheads, mentioned above, Miata owners gay, Subaru drivers lesbians, minivan drivers boring, 1979 Monte Carlo owners poor...
2 geologists? Funny, the only Prius owner I know is also a geologist. Must be something in the water...
Wait, you drive a Corvette, right? :nono:
Quote from: 565 on June 08, 2009, 12:17:53 AM
Man those are all true!
Now where are my gold chains... I took them off to wash my mullet comb-over.
There. Fixed.
Quote from: Cobra93 on June 08, 2009, 12:54:55 PM
Wait, you drive a Corvette, right? :nono:
There. Fixed.
:lol:
Quote from: ifcar on June 07, 2009, 01:18:11 PM
Only as much truth as "BMW drivers are jerks."
We are.
Quote from: Psilos on June 07, 2009, 10:37:15 PM
It's the same as calling BMW drivers dickheads, mentioned above, Miata owners gay, Subaru drivers lesbians, minivan drivers boring, 1979 Monte Carlo owners poor...
Is it possible for me to even be a lesbian? If you mean to like women, sure. I guess I'm a lesbian.
But BMW owners are dickheads. That's irrefutable.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 07, 2009, 05:44:01 PM
Yet again: a nice, upbeat and colorful ad.
Sure, more upbeat than pictures of a nickel mine, I guess.
(http://www.hemscott.com/static/cms/1/3/4/binary/3116989831/321562.jpg)
That's the environmental impact of your Toyota Pious. Enjoy.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 07, 2009, 05:44:01 PM
Yet again: a nice, upbeat and colorful ad.
Are you gay? :mask:
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 01:33:32 PM
I don't think so. I think he's from Michigan.
I find the term "wanker" sort of humorous, actually. There's another term "wank" which means to pleasure yourself. I heard that used once by an Australian, but I never heard it any other time.
Wanker is a very common term amongst the commonfolk here. Do substitute tosser, prick, fucktard et. al. as required.
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on June 08, 2009, 07:12:39 PM
:lol:
Those are some shiny shorts in that sig clip......
I know a guy who drives a Prius- he's married, a little different, I dunno.
BUT Don't those electric motors make a TON of TORQUE?!?!?!?!!!!
We need to get on modding some of them for dragging...
Quote from: Onslaught on June 07, 2009, 01:25:24 PM
You know I don't see all that big a deal about this add. It's about what I'd expect for a car like this. Is it my cup of tea? No, not really.
Is it targeted at the people who will want one? Probably.
I don't give a shit about a tv add anyway. I still drive a Mazda after all those lame ass Zoom Zoom ones. And even with that hot ass Jill Wagner woman in the Mercury adds I still don't want one.
And who really uses the word "wanker?"
Before I clicked it, I really expected something a lot more smug and over the top self-righteous to get Chris in such a frenzy. But in reality, it's just a stupid ad.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 07, 2009, 02:17:22 PM
I don't have a problem with hybrids, though I think they're overhyped. And there's some question as to whether the disposal problems related to their batteries outweigh the benefit from their better gas mileage. They're not quite as clean and green as they're billed to be.
My problem with them is more the sort of people who buy them -- phony, hypocritial, self-congratulatory posturers, in a lot of cases. Many people buy them because they want to be part of a certain crowd, can't really think for themselves, and don't know or care whether the car really lives up to its environmmental billing.
People buy that hybrids are the saviors of mankind and the environment when they're just not so. And they don't usually save anyone any money either.
Although, at the low pricepoint of the Insight, they're becoming slightly more viable. The true problem lies not with these smugmobiles, but with the next generation of smugmobiles: full electrics.
Quote from: omicron on June 09, 2009, 08:23:32 AM
Wanker is a very common term amongst the commonfolk here. Do substitute tosser, prick, fucktard et. al. as required.
I quite like the term tosser. Wanker never caught on with me.
I contend that anyone who doesn't want people to drive hybrids is:
a.) An idiot
b.) In the oil business
c.) Chrysler
Would it make you morons feel better if everyone drove 10 mpg Vipers so that gas could be $7 a gallon?
Guess what, not everybody likes cars! If you don't like cars, I'd like you to drive the most fuel efficient car possible. That means more for me and less for OPEC.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 11, 2009, 07:24:02 AM
I contend that anyone who doesn't want people to drive hybrids is:
a.) An idiot
b.) In the oil business
c.) Chrysler
Would it make you morons feel better if everyone drove 10 mpg Vipers so that gas could be $7 a gallon?
Guess what, not everybody likes cars! If you don't like cars, I'd like you to drive the most fuel efficient car possible. That means more for me and less for OPEC.
d.) Wants better fuel efficient cars. A Prius gets only around 8% better fuel economy than a Panda 100HP, yet costs 100% more (in the UK).
Quote from: Raza on June 11, 2009, 07:28:27 AM
d.) Wants better fuel efficient cars. A Prius gets only around 8% better fuel economy than a Panda 100HP, yet costs 100% more (in the UK).
Well, we don't really have them.
I'd rather have someone go out and buy a Prius instead of a Tahoe.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 11, 2009, 07:32:51 AM
Well, we don't really have them.
I'd rather have someone go out and buy a Prius instead of a Tahoe.
So would I. Unless they really needed a Tahoe. Like my local cops. Idling by the side of a road requires the Tahoe's something ability.
Anyway, that's an aside. But yeah, while many people can find cars like the Tahoe useful (for what it's worth, I don't hate SUVs, and am going to buy one in the future), they drive them everyday when, they're really occasional use vehicles. That comes down to people not being able to afford to run two cars (why don't you see people driving Ferraris to work everyday? Because Ferrari owners can afford not to) or making the decision to buy permanently instead of renting temporarily. Apparently the hassle of renting is worse than the hassle of filling up four times a week.
I'm sorry, I kind of rambled there.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=18870.msg1080424#msg1080424 date=1244726907
d.) Wants better fuel efficient cars. A Prius gets only around 8% better fuel economy than a Panda 100HP, yet costs 100% more (in the UK).
The Panda is also an A-segment car, whereas the Prius is a D-segment car. The Prius has much more space inside.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 11, 2009, 07:24:02 AM
I contend that anyone who doesn't want people to drive hybrids is:
a.) An idiot
b.) In the oil business
c.) Chrysler
Would it make you morons feel better if everyone drove 10 mpg Vipers so that gas could be $7 a gallon?
Guess what, not everybody likes cars! If you don't like cars, I'd like you to drive the most fuel efficient car possible. That means more for me and less for OPEC.
Yes, actually, and F-150s, and Escalades and Tundras and...
If hybrid owners really cared about the environment and/or their pocketbook they'd simply be a used Civic or Corolla.
Hybrids are a socio-political statement (= fail).
Quote from: GoCougs on June 11, 2009, 10:02:44 AM
Yes, actually, and F-150s, and Escalades and Tundras and...
If hybrid owners really cared about the environment and/or their pocketbook they'd simply be a used Civic or Corolla.
Hybrids are a socio-political statement (= fail).
You're an idiot and buy into the stereotype that is commonly associated with Hybrids.
People typically buy hybrids (versus a Midsizer of similar cost) to cut down on fuel costs.
You really would like people to drive inefficient, ill-handling, pigs just to stick it to the man?
You really need to stop smoking that happy crack............ :rastaman:
Quote from: 2o6 on June 11, 2009, 09:53:32 AM
The Panda is also an A-segment car, whereas the Prius is a D-segment car. The Prius has much more space inside.
Not that much more.
I'll dig up the comparison.
I think hybrids are a much bigger neurosis in the United States than other countries, where they are allowed to use diesels.
Quote from: Tave on June 08, 2009, 12:44:48 PM
2 geologists? Funny, the only Prius owner I know is also a geologist. Must be something in the water...
Well, the geology prof is obviously a geologist, and my boss has a geomorphology degree or two (I think), and, actually, the family friend has a geology degree, too.
That's 4/4!
Quote from: the Teuton on June 08, 2009, 08:38:44 PM
Is it possible for me to even be a lesbian? If you mean to like women, sure. I guess I'm a lesbian.
But BMW owners are dickheads. That's irrefutable.
Yes; you're a woman.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 11, 2009, 10:06:54 AM
You're an idiot and buy into the stereotype that is commonly associated with Hybrids.
People typically buy hybrids (versus a Midsizer of similar cost) to cut down on fuel costs.
You really would like people to drive inefficient, ill-handling, pigs just to stick it to the man?
There are no midsizers of similar cost.
Every hybrid on the market costs several thousands more than a vehicle of similar dimensions and performance. A base trim Prius costs almost $6k more than a Corolla XLE, just going off MSRP. That's a lot for a 12mpg advantage. To be nice I'll use the CA avg. gas price which was $2.92/gal last week. That's still 210,240 miles to drive before you break even. And you'll be lucky if the battery lasts that long.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 11, 2009, 10:02:44 AM
Yes, actually, and F-150s, and Escalades and Tundras and...
If hybrid owners really cared about the environment and/or their pocketbook they'd simply be a used Civic or Corolla.
Hybrids are a socio-political statement (= fail).
Cougs, the market has spoken. And hybrids are a success.
Quote from: sandertheshark on June 11, 2009, 06:09:27 PM
There are no midsizers of similar cost.
Every hybrid on the market costs several thousands more than a vehicle of similar dimensions and performance. A base trim Prius costs almost $6k more than a Corolla XLE, just going off MSRP. That's a lot for a 12mpg advantage. To be nice I'll use the CA avg. gas price which was $2.92/gal last week. That's still 210,240 miles to drive before you break even. And you'll be lucky if the battery lasts that long.
Yes there is:
The Camry starts at 19K, the Prius at 22K. Yes, the Prius is a bit smaller inside, but it still is classified as a Midsizer.
The Insight (although not a midsizer) is almost 2K cheaper than the Accord.
Quote from: Raza on June 11, 2009, 11:16:24 AM
Not that much more.
I'll dig up the comparison.
A lot more space. For starters, the Panda only has four seats.
No one uses the fifth seat anyway.
Quote from: Onslaught on June 11, 2009, 06:18:23 PM
Cougs, the market has spoken. And hybrids are a success.
Fair enough, but actually, only
one hybrid is a success, and as we all know only because it looks different (i.e., easy means of self-validation).
The hybrid versions of the Camry, Highlander, Civic, Escape are market footnotes.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 11, 2009, 06:56:27 PM
Yes there is:
The Camry starts at 19K, the Prius at 22K. Yes, the Prius is a bit smaller inside, but it still is classified as a Midsizer.
"A bit"? Have you ever tried crawling in and out of the back seat of a Prius? I have. My own birth was more comfortable.
The Prius is a compact, I don't care what anyone says. THAT'S WHY TOYOTA MAKES A CAMRY HYBRID. For $26k. Dumbass.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 11, 2009, 07:24:02 AM
I contend that anyone who doesn't want people to drive hybrids is:
a.) An idiot
b.) In the oil business
c.) Chrysler
Would it make you morons feel better if everyone drove 10 mpg Vipers so that gas could be $7 a gallon?
Guess what, not everybody likes cars! If you don't like cars, I'd like you to drive the most fuel efficient car possible. That means more for me and less for OPEC.
That makes no sense.
You do know Chrysler was in the process of coming up with decent hybrids just like everyone else. They just ran out of money before they could do much.
Had the Aspen come along with about 2,000lbs more towing capacity in their hybrid I would have traded my Durango in on one.
They are also putting a Ram hybrid out, among others.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 11, 2009, 10:58:29 PM
Fair enough, but actually, only one hybrid is a success, and as we all know only because it looks different (i.e., easy means of self-validation).
The hybrid versions of the Camry, Highlander, Civic, Escape are market footnotes.
Go ahead and add the new Honda Insight. We all know it will do well after car sales start to improve.
Quote from: Onslaught on June 12, 2009, 05:51:15 AM
Go ahead and add the new Honda Insight. We all know it will do well after car sales start to improve.
The Insight is actually affordable though, right?
Quote from: Raza link=topic=18870.msg1081708#msg1081708 date=1244824864
The Insight is actually affordable though, right?
They're both affordable. The Prius is 22K, the Insight is 19K.
Quote from: Onslaught on June 11, 2009, 06:18:23 PM
Cougs, the market has spoken. And hybrids are a success.
Only if Toyota is making money on them and I am not convinced that they are. I think it's probably more of a marketing statement than anything, to distract people from all those SUVs and trucks they sell.
Quote from: TBR on June 12, 2009, 04:08:25 PM
Only if Toyota is making money on them and I am not convinced that they are. I think it's probably more of a marketing statement than anything, to distract people from all those SUVs and trucks they sell.
Toyota is making a fair amount of money on each one. The 2nd Gens (Echo-like ones) IIRC were sold at a loss.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 12, 2009, 04:10:08 PM
Toyota is making a fair amount of money on each one. The 2nd Gens (Echo-like ones) IIRC were sold at a loss.
Source?
Here:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/28/honda-toyota-make-3-100-profit-on-each-hybrid-sold/
Quote from: 2o6 on June 12, 2009, 04:11:24 PM
Ok, ifcar.
You can't just make a statement and expect people to believe you.
Quote from: TBR on June 12, 2009, 04:12:54 PM
You can't just make a statement and expect people to believe you.
Check it out.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 12, 2009, 04:13:40 PM
Check it out.
That isn't how it works. You made the statement, not me. (and, you definitely didn't check it so at best you're working of memories that could be faulty)
Quote from: TBR on June 12, 2009, 04:16:35 PM
That isn't how it works. You made the statement, not me. (and, you definitely didn't check it so at best you're working of memories that could be faulty)
Did you click the link? No matter: another one.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/report-honda-toyota-earning-profits-on-hybrids.html
Quote from: 2o6 on June 12, 2009, 04:18:22 PM
Did you click the link? No matter: another one.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/report-honda-toyota-earning-profits-on-hybrids.html
Sorry, I didn't see it as you posted it after I had already applied to your prior post. Regardless, I am relatively certain that those numbers don't take the rather significant development costs into effect, however; I'll concede the point anyway: Toyota does make money on the Prius.
I don't see what the big deal about this commercial is. Yeah, it's a quirky, somewhat queer commercial but it's geared towards the same people a Prius is geared to. I personally would not buy a Prius, but if I did want to this commercial wouldn't have any negative impact on that decision.
I agree that hybrids make little if any economic sense. Most of the people who buy Priuses wouldn't be caught dead in a traditional economy car, and that's why the Prius exists.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 12, 2009, 04:18:22 PM
Did you click the link? No matter: another one.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/04/report-honda-toyota-earning-profits-on-hybrids.html
I'm pleased Honda and Toyota are making money by ripping off their consumers with slow shitboxes that clog up the carpool lanes.
Wait, no, pleased isn't the right word. "Violently angry" is what I was looking for.
Quote from: sandertheshark on June 13, 2009, 12:10:21 AM
I'm pleased Honda and Toyota are making money by ripping off their consumers with slow shitboxes that clog up the carpool lanes.
Wait, no, pleased isn't the right word. "Violently angry" is what I was looking for.
And SUV's don't? Not only do those things go slow but I can't see anything in front of them too. It's not the car but the person driving it that's the problem.
Quote from: TBR on June 12, 2009, 04:08:25 PM
Only if Toyota is making money on them and I am not convinced that they are. I think it's probably more of a marketing statement than anything, to distract people from all those SUVs and trucks they sell.
Toyota claims that the Prius is not a profit-making car in its current sales numbers. That's why they're increasing production.
Quote from: Onslaught on June 11, 2009, 06:18:23 PM
Cougs, the market has spoken. And hybrids are a success.
No
Quote from: Onslaught on June 12, 2009, 05:51:15 AM
Go ahead and add the new Honda Insight. We all know it will do well after car sales start to improve.
But also remember the US market in 2008 was ~16,000,000 cars yet all hyrbid sales combined were 315,000 (0.3%).
The market has spoken, but with a veru small voice (1.9%) I don't think overall success beyond the Prius and be claimed just yet.
Remove Prius sales of 160,000 (which we all know that it sells because it is an easily recognizable socio-political statement) and market share falls to less than 1%.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 13, 2009, 10:08:26 AM
No
But also remember the US market in 2008 was ~16,000,000 cars yet all hyrbid sales combined were 315,000 (0.3%).
The market has spoken, but with a veru small voice (1.9%) I don't think overall success beyond the Prius and be claimed just yet.
Remove Prius sales of 160,000 (which we all know that it sells because it is an easily recognizable socio-political statement) and market share falls to less than 1%.
I don't even have a retort to this. Your logic is so skewed and backwards, there's no way to reason with you.
Quote from: sandertheshark on June 13, 2009, 12:10:21 AM
I'm pleased Honda and Toyota are making money by ripping off their consumers with slow shitboxes that clog up the carpool lanes.
Wait, no, pleased isn't the right word. "Violently angry" is what I was looking for.
Since when is taking a profit ripping consumers off? I am amazed how quickly some people are willing to throw the free market out of the window when they simply don't like the product in question.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 13, 2009, 12:22:09 PM
I don't even have a retort to this. Your logic is so skewed and backwards, there's no way to reason with you.
How is Cougs wrong here, Kevin? The truth is that hybrids have been very hyped up, and don't command a big share of the market. That doesn't mean that they won't in the future, but to argue that as of now, they're a smashing success simply isn't true. If you believe that, you've swallowed some propaganda whole.
Quote from: TBR on June 13, 2009, 12:24:33 PM
Since when is taking a profit ripping consumers off? I am amazed how quickly some people are willing to throw the free market out of the window when they simply don't like the product in question.
I agree. Nobody is ripped off if they buy something voluntary. If they didn't get a good value for what they bought, it's their own fault. It doesn't mean they were ripped off. Ripping off implies that they paid for something that they didn't get, but if they knew, or had reason to know, what attributes a car has, and overpaid for it (by some subjective measure), they were not ripped off.
Quote from: TBR on June 13, 2009, 12:24:33 PM
Since when is taking a profit ripping consumers off? I am amazed how quickly some people are willing to throw the free market out of the window when they simply don't like the product in question.
+a lot
Sure, things can inherently be "ripoffs," but if people go for the bait voluntarily, they didn't really get ripped off.
As long as people are still willing to pay $50,000 for a dressed-up $20,000 truck, hybrids will make sense to me.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 13, 2009, 12:51:19 PM
I agree. Nobody is ripped off if they buy something voluntary. If they didn't get a good value for what they bought, it's their own fault. It doesn't mean they were ripped off. Ripping off implies that they paid for something that they didn't get, but if they knew, or had reason to know, what attributes a car has, and overpaid for it (by some subjective measure), they were not ripped off.
Although I don't know what profit margins typically are in the auto industry, 15% sans development and tooling costs hardly strikes me as excessive either.
Quote from: TBR on June 13, 2009, 12:58:55 PM
Although I don't know what profit margins typically are in the auto industry, 15% sans development and tooling costs hardly strikes me as excessive either.
Actually, profit margins are irrelevant. If a person can make a 1000% profit margin selling something honestly to a willing buyer, then he's done nothing wrong.
Quote from: dazzleman on June 13, 2009, 01:03:00 PM
Actually, profit margins are irrelevant. If a person can make a 1000% profit margin selling something honestly to a willing buyer, then he's done nothing wrong.
Right, I was just addressing any argument sanders might have.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 13, 2009, 12:22:09 PM
I don't even have a retort to this. Your logic is so skewed and backwards, there's no way to reason with you.
I'm not surprised; for what can be said as a counter?
I would not be surprised to see hybrid market share fall this year, as the unattractive financial aspect asserts itself in these tougher times.
Actually hybrid buyers are being ripped off, if you have a certain way of thinking about it. They have been brainwashed into thinking it will save the world if they buy a hybrid, so they pay a premium.
Quote from: hotrodalex on June 13, 2009, 02:32:16 PM
Actually hybrid buyers are being ripped off, if you have a certain way of thinking about it. They have been brainwashed into thinking it will save the world if they buy a hybrid, so they pay a premium.
But not by Toyota and Honda.
Quote from: TBR on June 13, 2009, 02:33:41 PM
But not by Toyota and Honda.
That commercial sure gives a "green-save-the-earth" subliminal message.
Quote from: hotrodalex on June 13, 2009, 04:15:09 PM
That commercial sure gives a "green-save-the-earth" subliminal message.
Of course, marketing is supposed to reinforce positive preconceptions.
So they are contributing to the brainwashing.
Quote from: hotrodalex on June 13, 2009, 04:35:24 PM
So they are contributing to the brainwashing.
No more so than pretty much any company that markets their product
Quote from: dazzleman on June 13, 2009, 12:49:48 PM
How is Cougs wrong here, Kevin? The truth is that hybrids have been very hyped up, and don't command a big share of the market. That doesn't mean that they won't in the future, but to argue that as of now, they're a smashing success simply isn't true. If you believe that, you've swallowed some propaganda whole.
I'm not saying that they're a vivid success, but they're a relative success. They've taken a sizable chunk out of the market for regular cars. Granted, they can't really penetrate the Pickup market (and logically, they can't) they have created a segment that is fast growing as a whole, even if there are percentage of sales drops.
I'm not sure how you define 'sizable.'. They're right now a very small segment of the car market.
And I'm not convinced that their better gas mileage isn't offset by the additional purchase/maintenance costs of having the large battery, not to mention ultimate disposal of the toxic substances in the battery.
I'm not a hybrid basher and I think it's good to develop new technology but it's not good for the ultimate health of anything to overhype it, because that leads to a backlash when reality sets in.
Quote from: TBR on June 13, 2009, 08:46:48 PM
No more so than pretty much any company that markets their product
And all other companies who wrongly state that their product is "green" and will save the world can be considered ripping off customers too. :lol:
(I'm not really serious here, just being a little devil's advocate and tossing ideas around)
Quote from: dazzleman on June 14, 2009, 04:23:36 AM
I'm not a hybrid basher and I think it's good to develop new technology but it's not good for the ultimate health of anything to overhype it, because that leads to a backlash when reality sets in.
:hesaid:
I also think that we should continue to develop technology to find something better than hybrids, since they are just a band-aid for the problem.
Quote from: hotrodalex on June 14, 2009, 08:55:01 AM
:hesaid:
I also think that we should continue to develop technology to find something better than hybrids, since they are just a band-aid for the problem.
I agree. They are, at their best, an intermediate solution. Intermediate solutions are required and they're better than nothing, but I don't think it makes sense to overhype them because some Hollywood asshole wants to assauge his guilt for flying around in private jets by having a Prius he rarely drives (since the limo driver usually takes him around) in his driveway.
Quote from: hotrodalex on June 14, 2009, 08:53:41 AM
And all other companies who wrongly state that their product is "green" and will save the world can be considered ripping off customers too. :lol:
(I'm not really serious here, just being a little devil's advocate and tossing ideas around)
Hell, the green side blames global warming on GM's marketing department, so this isn't any less reasonable.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 13, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
As long as people are still willing to pay $50,000 for a dressed-up $20,000 truck, hybrids will make sense to me.
They both make sense, and for the exact same reason: People will pay up for image.
http://adage.com/article?article_id=137386