(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--cpW0rA4z--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/jvtjeljgkxmbxuc3tyz6.jpg)
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--XISct5hp--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/hyl20tkx453ysyirjluq.jpg)
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--HNhS2ugk--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/k2xvybyrtjmi029xyi4f.jpg)
http://jalopnik.com/the-100-000-lexus-lc-500-is-the-most-badass-lexus-sinc-1752278150 (http://jalopnik.com/the-100-000-lexus-lc-500-is-the-most-badass-lexus-sinc-1752278150)
New RWD platform, uses the 5.0 V8 out of the RC F, new 10 speed automatic (will need it to stay in powerband)
Mixed feels but I want to hear what other people think first.
Looks sweet. Aside from the taillight treatment that is. However, I fail to understand what is sporting about a 10 speed auto.
Looks good both in and out but $100k is a ton for a car that doesn't have any more motor than a $40k Camaro SS or $60k Corvette.
I dunno - Lexus is definitely on a mission sticking with these N/A -F cars. Could be they're going after driving experience rather than all-out performance? I mean, an M5 or E63 is a hoot to drive I'm sure, but you gotta suffer with turbos and in many cases mandatory AWD to put all that power down, whereas the GS-F is still pretty damned fast for public roads, and will sound glorious and have stellar throttle response.
Is that the production body?
What is with the flying buttress going into the dash?
Just looked and fck yessss
Ooof. Yea, Nakamichi tape deck interior aside, I'm seeing this thing having problems getting away from a Stingray. Can't really hang a hat on the "driving experience" claim with a 10 speed auto. Is it weird to say this is what the RC should have been?
Seeing a bit of Alpine/Renault GTA 610 and maybe some SVX in the rear 3/4. I'm torn on this one.
Looks good IMHO. Seems like a legit 911 competitor. not something I would buy but I can see some rich folks buying this over an equivalent german car.
I don't think the power is that big of an issue. I mean...its auto only (and slushbox auto at that), I don't think all out performance is the goal.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 11, 2016, 01:03:43 PM
Looks good IMHO. Seems like a legit 911 competitor. not something I would buy but I can see some rich folks buying this over an equivalent german car.
I don't think the power is that big of an issue. I mean...its auto only (and slushbox auto at that), I don't think all out performance is the goal.
It'll only be a 911 competitor if they can keep the weight. Somehow, Lexus made the RC significantly heavier than the IS. IIRC, the RCF is 2 tons.
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 01:16:35 PM
It'll only be a 911 competitor if they can keep the weight. Somehow, Lexus made the RC significantly heavier than the IS. IIRC, the RCF is 2 tons.
I guess that's true. For some reason I always think of the 911 as more of a GT car, event though you are right it is pretty light for its size (relative to other new cars, anyway).
Do you know how many 6 series I've driven? That's what this car is aimed at, not the corvette or anything like it. If you're comparing it on sheer stats alone, you're missing the point.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2016, 01:27:42 PM
Do you know how many 6 series I've driven? That's what this car is aimed at, not the corvette or anything like it. If you're comparing it on sheer stats alone, you're missing the point.
Agreed. I really like this thing.
The new age of slushies (see ZF and GM 8 sp) is upon us whereas their performance engagement comes close to a DSG and there is little if any performance or engagement lost to a traditional M/T/. Also, just in general, very few people want a M/T these days, esp. in a Lexus or this class of car.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 11, 2016, 01:03:43 PM
Looks good IMHO. Seems like a legit 911 competitor. not something I would buy but I can see some rich folks buying this over an equivalent german car.
I don't think the power is that big of an issue. I mean...its auto only (and slushbox auto at that), I don't think all out performance is the goal.
Er...it's not really supposed to be a 911 competitor. This is shooting at the S-coupe/6-series segment.
I'm sort of curious as to why they decided to introduce this new platform with this rather than a new LS. The LS has definitely been outgunned to the point where it's no longer relevant, a real shame considering it was a class leader.
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 01:16:35 PM
It'll only be a 911 competitor if they can keep the weight. Somehow, Lexus made the RC significantly heavier than the IS. IIRC, the RCF is 2 tons.
IIRC, RC is more a GS coupe than it is an IS coupe
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2016, 01:41:53 PM
The new age of slushies (see ZF and GM 8 sp) is upon us whereas their performance engagement comes close to a DSG and there is little if any performance or engagement lost to a traditional M/T/. Also, just in general, very few people want a M/T these days, esp. in a Lexus or this class of car.
I drove an A4 with the ZF 8-speed. It felt like a normal automatic. Have driven plenty of DSG VW/Audi's and they are not the same. Other than missing a third pedal DSG feels just like a manual (because it is, for the most part). The 8-speed auto does not.
Granted, I'm sure most people prefer the ZF. That slight disconnect between engine RPM and acceleration/deceleration is part of what makes them so smooth, but you lose some connection to the machine itself (IMHO). I would take a 6-speed DSG/DCT over an 8/9/10 speed automatic any day.
All that being said, I don't think the auto in this car is a drawback. I don't think this car is built to maximize driver engagement. Its meant to be fun to drive (which I am sure it is), fast, good looking, and reasonably comfortable.
If it is going against the 6 then the engine is out of place. Def needs turbos
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 11, 2016, 01:55:21 PM
If it is going against the 6 then the engine is out of place. Def needs turbos
WTF?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2016, 01:41:53 PM
The new age of slushies (see ZF and GM 8 sp) is upon us whereas their performance engagement comes close to a DSG and there is little if any performance or engagement lost to a traditional M/T/. Also, just in general, very few people want a M/T these days, esp. in a Lexus or this class of car.
DSGs aren't any more engaging than automatics. They just shift quicker.
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 02:25:15 PM
DSGs aren't any more engaging than automatics. They just shift quicker.
Not sure what you mean. You have a Jetta so I am assuming you have driven both (auto and DSG).
With DSG's the RPM's don't drop up an down unless the car is accelerating or decelerating (or shifting). The ZF 8-speed works just like a normal automatic.
I am not an engineer but they feel different. Driving a manual in 1st gear without shifting feels different then driving an automatic in 1st gear without shifting. The automatic will accelerate/decelerate smoother, but is less immediate. Once its in gear DSG feels like a manual.
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 02:25:15 PM
DSGs aren't any more engaging than automatics. They just shift quicker.
Wrong. A DSG feels much better than an auto.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Wrong. A DSG feels much better than an auto.
Have you driven anything with the ZF 8AT?
Also, just because it feels better when it shifts doesn't make it any more engaging. The steps required to operate (engage) a DSG are identical to those required to operate (engage) a slushbox.
In a slushy AT there is no mechanical coupling between engine and tranny - it's a fluid (soft) coupling via the torque converter. This means there is going to be some slip (tranny RPM will slightly lag engine RPM) and absorption of drive train feedback (note: at times there the torque converter will lock such as cruising on the freeway but by and large it's not locked at low RPM, WOT and when shifting).
In a DSG there is direct mechanical coupling between engine and transmission - it's a hard coupling courtesy of wet clutches. There is no slip or absorption of drive train feedback.
The differences are noticeable and why IMO a DSG is definitely more engaging than a traditional slushy AT - it doesn't slip nor absorb drive train feedback. The new breed of slushie ATs perform very well what with quick upshifts and quick rev-matching down shifts, but at the end of the day it's still a "slushy" fluid coupling.
It's going to age terribly, just like the Lexus's entire current lineup.
I disagree. Yeah, some of the details are a tad overwrought, but the silhouette is classic.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 11, 2016, 04:33:30 PM
I disagree. Yeah, some of the details are a tad overwrought, but the silhouette is classic.
Some? Pretty much every styling detail on that car has been taken to an extreme.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2016, 02:51:32 PM
Wrong. A DSG feels much better than an auto.
From a "driver engagement" standpoint, a DSG is just a very crisp automatic with paddle shifters. It does not engage the driver any more than an automatic. Put it in D and it will shift automatically. Flip a paddle/button and it will change up or down a gear. Driver involvement is the same. The DSG is better than a torque converter auto, but it doesn't engage the driver any more than a traditional slushy. They certainly don't offer the same level of driver engagement as a traditional MT. DSG is a nice alternative to a traditional slushy, IMO.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2016, 02:25:14 PM
WTF?
Someone buying a luxocoupe is not looking to rev to 8K to merge onto the highway. The demands of the engine from the user are at odds with the intended purpose of the car.
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 04:40:10 PM
From a "driver engagement" standpoint, a DSG is just a very crisp automatic with paddle shifters. It does not engage the driver any more than an automatic. Put it in D and it will shift automatically. Flip a paddle/button and it will change up or down a gear. Driver involvement is the same. The DSG is better than a torque converter auto, but it doesn't engage the driver any more than a traditional slushy. They certainly don't offer the same level of driver engagement as a traditional MT. DSG is a nice alternative to a traditional slushy, IMO.
This is exactly what I mean
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 11, 2016, 04:54:50 PM
Someone buying a luxocoupe is not looking to rev to 8K to merge onto the highway. The demands of the engine from the user are at odds with the intended purpose of the car.
So it should have turbos?
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 04:40:10 PM
From a "driver engagement" standpoint, a DSG is just a very crisp automatic with paddle shifters. It does not engage the driver any more than an automatic. Put it in D and it will shift automatically. Flip a paddle/button and it will change up or down a gear. Driver involvement is the same. The DSG is better than a torque converter auto, but it doesn't engage the driver any more than a traditional slushy. They certainly don't offer the same level of driver engagement as a traditional MT. DSG is a nice alternative to a traditional slushy, IMO.
If it shifts as soon as I pull the paddle, then it's automatically more engaging.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 11, 2016, 02:39:47 PM
Not sure what you mean. You have a Jetta so I am assuming you have driven both (auto and DSG).
With DSG's the RPM's don't drop up an down unless the car is accelerating or decelerating (or shifting). The ZF 8-speed works just like a normal automatic.
I am not an engineer but they feel different. Driving a manual in 1st gear without shifting feels different then driving an automatic in 1st gear without shifting. The automatic will accelerate/decelerate smoother, but is less immediate. Once its in gear DSG feels like a manual.
I've not driven the ZF box in question, but I've driven a DSG and several different slushy ATs with manual shift modes, including one that I currently own.
In my Jetta, in Tiptronic mode, the torque converter locks in gear as soon as you are above stall speed. Pressing down on the gas at 20 mph in 2nd gear feels like doing the same with a DSG or regular MT. Speed and RPMs move in together in a fixed ratio. Put it in D, and it will unlock the torque converter under certain engine load conditions rather than just downshift. Stab the gas when it's unlocked and the RPMs will rise without a commensurate rise in speed. This is that classic "slushy" feeling that DSGs don't exhibit unless they are malfunctioning.
From 100 feet away, and if I squint, I find the profile attractive. Looking closer, I find nothing attractive about this car at all. That's not necessarily bad though. Nobody ever called Boba Fett attractive, but he's a badass.
This car is Boba Fett.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2016, 03:58:54 PM
In a slushy AT there is no mechanical coupling between engine and tranny - it's a fluid (soft) coupling via the torque converter. This means there is going to be some slip (tranny RPM will slightly lag engine RPM) and absorption of drive train feedback (note: at times there the torque converter will lock such as cruising on the freeway but by and large it's not locked at low RPM, WOT and when shifting).
In a DSG there is direct mechanical coupling between engine and transmission - it's a hard coupling courtesy of wet clutches. There is no slip or absorption of drive train feedback.
The differences are noticeable and why IMO a DSG is definitely more engaging than a traditional slushy AT - it doesn't slip nor absorb drive train feedback. The new breed of slushie ATs perform very well what with quick upshifts and quick rev-matching down shifts, but at the end of the day it's still a "slushy" fluid coupling.
ATs lock up a lot more than they used to. I think Mazda said they lock their transmissions up like 90% of the time. They only slush it up from a stop and during shifts. Acura uses the same principle on their T/C equipped DSG.
I think DSGs have their place and this car would probably benefit from it. They make sense on cars beyond a certain speed threshold (I would say mid 13 1/4s) built to a certain purpose (track day specials or "sport" versions of luxury cars). For example I think a DSG would be a cool option for a GT350. So it would probably fit here. It would fool its buyers into thinking the car was a lot sportier than it actually is, which is probably the point.
But on something slow DSG is kind of silly. DSG worked really well in the GTI I drove but it added nothing to the experience. In slow cars stickshift gives you something to do while you are waiting for the car to accelerate :lol:
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 04:40:10 PM
From a "driver engagement" standpoint, a DSG is just a very crisp automatic with paddle shifters. It does not engage the driver any more than an automatic. Put it in D and it will shift automatically. Flip a paddle/button and it will change up or down a gear. Driver involvement is the same. The DSG is better than a torque converter auto, but it doesn't engage the driver any more than a traditional slushy. They certainly don't offer the same level of driver engagement as a traditional MT. DSG is a nice alternative to a traditional slushy, IMO.
I'd rather have a regular auto, to be honest. But maybe I just need to drive better DSG cars.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2016, 05:00:45 PM
If it shifts as soon as I pull the paddle, then it's automatically more engaging.
Most hi po/well programmed auto boxes do this, just not with as much drama (read: roughness).
And yea this thing should have turbos. Its look had me thinking it was a sports car but it's really a GT. It's going to be heavy, it's going to be soft, it's going to be competing with the likes of the 6 series and Benz SL, not the 911s and AMG GTs.
I like this car a lot, especially the interior. Not a racecar, but looks like a great roadtripper.
Manual. Every time. I'll never buy a sports/GT car with an automatic, no matter how well it drives itself and removes the human element with its sorcery. "But but it's faster and can shift faster than you can!"
Don't give a flying fuck.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 11, 2016, 05:16:59 PM
I like this car a lot, especially the interior. Not a racecar, but looks like a great roadtripper.
The interior looks like you've fallen into a vat of caramel in the Wonka factory. The design is interesting though. I'd like to see it in black leather with contrasting stitching.
I don't understand why anyone is complaining about the engine when
- This isn't an F-sport model
- BMW has been sharing engines in the 6-series with the 3 and 5 series for years and no one has given a shit.
This car is aimed squarely at the 650i in concept, price, sizing, and output.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 11, 2016, 05:20:09 PM
The interior looks like you've fallen into a vat of caramel in the Wonka factory. The design is interesting though. I'd like to see it in black leather with contrasting stitching.
I'd like to see a tan/cocoa color combo.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 11, 2016, 05:15:45 PM
Most hi po/well programmed auto boxes do this, just not with as much drama (read: roughness).
And yea this thing should have turbos. Its look had me thinking it was a sports car but it's really a GT. It's going to be heavy, it's going to be soft, it's going to be competing with the likes of the 6 series and Benz SL, not the 911s and AMG GTs.
Explain why it should have turbos. Nothing NEEDS turbos when a naturally aspirated engine can produce enough power.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 11, 2016, 02:39:47 PM
Not sure what you mean. You have a Jetta so I am assuming you have driven both (auto and DSG).
With DSG's the RPM's don't drop up an down unless the car is accelerating or decelerating (or shifting). The ZF 8-speed works just like a normal automatic.
I am not an engineer but they feel different. Driving a manual in 1st gear without shifting feels different then driving an automatic in 1st gear without shifting. The automatic will accelerate/decelerate smoother, but is less immediate. Once its in gear DSG feels like a manual.
They fee pretty much the exact same to me. Though it has been a long time since I've driven a car with a regular automatic.
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2016, 04:40:10 PM
From a "driver engagement" standpoint, a DSG is just a very crisp automatic with paddle shifters. It does not engage the driver any more than an automatic. Put it in D and it will shift automatically. Flip a paddle/button and it will change up or down a gear. Driver involvement is the same. The DSG is better than a torque converter auto, but it doesn't engage the driver any more than a traditional slushy. They certainly don't offer the same level of driver engagement as a traditional MT. DSG is a nice alternative to a traditional slushy, IMO.
Agree completely.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2016, 05:00:45 PM
If it shifts as soon as I pull the paddle, then it's automatically more engaging.
Not only more responsive but can skip gears on down shifting and has legit launch control.
All in all noticeably more engaging.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2016, 06:53:07 PM
Explain why it should have turbos. Nothing NEEDS turbos when a naturally aspirated engine can produce enough power.
Let me put it like this
Here is a dyno from an IS-F
(http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/is-f-2008-2014/133114d1225572688-stock-is-f-dyno-results-vs-is350-isf-vs-stock-is350-vs-modded-is350.jpg)
Here is a dyno from a 650i
(http://www.dragtimes.com/images_dyno/23763-2012-BMW-650i-Dyno.jpg)
RC-F makes more power up top but not much has changed. BMW will be much faster on the street as well as less strained. These aren't track specials. Obviously 470 or 500 or w/e HP will make for fast car, but the way that HP is made is at odds with this car's purpose in the context of its competition. If they want to go up against ze Germans they need turbos.
Def not turbos. Camaro SS 6sp. vs. M4 6sp. tells you all you need to know, including mpg ;). Gear it right and have a decent power band and you're set.
????
M4 is faster (by a hair) and gets better gas mileage (by an MPG)
No matter though, as great as the SBC is pooprods are not an option. Truthfully neither is more displacement for this Lexus lump (I'm sure it's huge). If they want to go up against the Germans they need turbos. They already have the heads ready from their new little 2.0T. Its only a matter of time
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 11, 2016, 07:39:26 PM
Let me put it like this
Here is a dyno from an IS-F
(http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachments/is-f-2008-2014/133114d1225572688-stock-is-f-dyno-results-vs-is350-isf-vs-stock-is350-vs-modded-is350.jpg)
Here is a dyno from a 650i
(http://www.dragtimes.com/images_dyno/23763-2012-BMW-650i-Dyno.jpg)
RC-F makes more power up top but not much has changed. BMW will be much faster on the street as well as less strained. These aren't track specials. Obviously 470 or 500 or w/e HP will make for fast car, but the way that HP is made is at odds with this car's purpose in the context of its competition. If they want to go up against ze Germans they need turbos.
So you have gone from being pro-turbo to anti-turbo, and now back to pro-turbo?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 11, 2016, 08:34:08 PM
????
M4 is faster (by a hair) and gets better gas mileage (by an MPG)
No matter though, as great as the SBC is pooprods are not an option. Truthfully neither is more displacement for this Lexus lump (I'm sure it's huge). If they want to go up against the Germans they need turbos. They already have the heads ready from their new little 2.0T. Its only a matter of time
Fine, I'll raise you the Corvette for game/set/match ;).
If they they do the transmission and driving experience right no one will care that an M6 or SLxx or w/e is much quicker. That this will/should be in the upper 12s is fast enough for the segment.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2016, 10:07:55 PM
So you have gone from being pro-turbo to anti-turbo, and now back to pro-turbo?
I am pro-whatever makes sense for a car's purpose and market. This car is not for me, even if I could afford it- most likely will be too heavy, no stickshift, annoying powerband for the street compared to its competition. FWIW Im not really a fan of that whole segment but thats another discussion.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2016, 11:22:57 PM
Fine, I'll raise you the Corvette for game/set/match ;).
If they they do the transmission and driving experience right no one will care that an M6 or SLxx or w/e is much quicker. That this will/should be in the upper 12s is fast enough for the segment.
Not really fair to compare a 2+2 GT to a sports car. And engagement/high effort is a detriment in this segment. Nobody is buying a 4400lb 650i because they want a driver's car.... lets just be honest. GT-R, 911, Z06, Viper are the driver's choices at that price point. So yea it will run 12s if you rev it to the moon, but unless you flog it it won't feel anywhere near as fast as 500 HP.
The 650i wont run 12s unless you rev it out either dude.
Obviously, but again unless you are running WOT all the time the 650i will feel and be much faster 99% of the time. Thats how people in this segment drive and is what they want
So now the argument is which one is faster not at WOT? That's just throttle programming..
The exterior is pretty interesting and daring. This and the RC are some of the better-looking Lexus products out there.
Not feeling the interior (from that shot). Seems kind of "underwhelming" compared to the in-your-face exterior.
I don't know, I kinda dig the interior.
My Robert Cumberford design analysis...
- the trademark Lexus front grille is still hideous. I'd hate cleaning all the dead bugs from the front of this car.
- I like the headlight design. Very original and menacing. Get rid of the stupid Nike swooshes.
- the way the front fenders rise up and blend into the A pillars looks awkward, and ruins an otherwise nice profile.
- the interior looks too busy in light colours. Black with contrasting stitching would look great.
- the roof/C-pillar treatment doesn't seem appropriate for a GT car. It's something you see on a CUV.
- the rear end looks cool... like a Transformer's face. Tail lights are very original and compliment the headlights.
Verdict: will no doubt appeal to young anime and Marvel enthusiasts, but they're not the ones with $100,000 to spend on a sports car. Not too many buyers of the BMW 6 series or Jaguar F-Type will be swayed by this Toyota.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 14, 2016, 10:56:09 AM
My Robert Cumberford design analysis...
- the trademark Lexus front grille is still hideous. I'd hate cleaning all the dead bugs from the front of this car.
- I like the headlight design. Very original and menacing. Get rid of the stupid Nike swooshes.
- the way the front fenders rise up and blend into the A pillars looks awkward, and ruins an otherwise nice profile.
- the interior looks too busy in light colours. Black with contrasting stitching would look great.
- the roof/C-pillar treatment doesn't seem appropriate for a GT car. It's something you see on a CUV.
- the rear end looks cool... like a Transformer's face. Tail lights are very original and compliment the headlights.
Verdict: will no doubt appeal to young anime and Marvel enthusiasts, but they're not the ones with $100,000 to spend on a sports car. Not too many buyers of the BMW 6 series or Jaguar F-Type will be swayed by this Toyota.
- The grille has grown on me, but I agree with you about cleaning it.
- I think the Nike swooshes are what makes the headlights look menacing.
- Disagree. I think they did a good job with the way the fenders flow into the A-pillar.
- I'm starting to really really like the interior. I just think it would be a bitch to clean.
- I hate this new trend for the C pillars. Fuck you Nissan!
- I like the rear except for the way the taillight housing droops down.
Verdict: I agree with your verdict.
The windshield looks way too small compared to the rest of the glass on the car, especially in the first picture.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 14, 2016, 11:16:52 AM
The windshield looks way too small compared to the rest of the glass on the car, especially in the first picture.
Agree. The windshield looks 5-6" higher than the side glass.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--cpW0rA4z--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/jvtjeljgkxmbxuc3tyz6.jpg)
Quote from: thecarnut on January 14, 2016, 11:16:52 AM
The windshield looks way too small compared to the rest of the glass on the car, especially in the first picture.
Agree. The windshield looks 5-6" higher than the side glass.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--cpW0rA4z--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/jvtjeljgkxmbxuc3tyz6.jpg)
^ I absolutely hate how the side windows are so much lower than the windshield. The entire A pillar area is a clusterfuck.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 14, 2016, 10:34:13 AM
I don't know, I kinda dig the interior.
I'm not sure if its the colors or the design. It's always best to see these things in person to make a final call, but from the photo the interior design looks rather "bland" or "tries to hard" in my book. I also don't think that a beige-brown interior is fitting for the emotionally red exterior. The cabin needs to be like black or dark grey for more effect IMO.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on January 14, 2016, 11:32:21 AM
I'm not sure if its the colors or the design. It's always best to see these things in person to make a final call, but from the photo the interior design looks rather "bland" or "tries to hard" in my book. I also don't think that a beige-brown interior is fitting for the emotionally red exterior. The cabin needs to be like black or dark grey for more effect IMO.
So is it bland or trying too hard? Kinda contradicting yourself...
Quote from: thecarnut on January 14, 2016, 12:09:29 PM
So is it bland or trying too hard? Kinda contradicting yourself...
I get what he's saying. It's bland in the lack of contrasting materials. Beige leather everywhere. Trying too hard in the different shapes and designs.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 14, 2016, 12:09:29 PM
So is it bland or trying too hard? Kinda contradicting yourself...
That interior from a design perspective doesn't excite or sway me. It comes across as underwhelming, or bland, if you will.
Keep in mind that these are my observations based on a photo from a particular angle. In real life maybe I'll be blown away and actually like it.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2016, 08:34:56 AM
So now the argument is which one is faster not at WOT? That's just throttle programming..
You can't simulate 50% more torque at low RPMs through "throttle programming" man. An engine can't give what it doesn't have.
Cleaning that grille is probably about as annoying as cleaning these horrible, horrible vents GM insisted on creating.
(http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/SPcAAOSwT6pV5zdz/s-l225.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 14, 2016, 01:31:56 PM
You can't simulate 50% more torque at low RPMs through "throttle programming" man. An engine can't give what it doesn't have.
So then the lexus is at full throttle...?
From Autoblog:
QuoteI drove a few laps in the Lexus and then followed those up with the benchmarked cars: BMW 650i, Lexus GS F, and Maserati GranTurismo. Dynamically, the Lexus didn't seem too bad. It was a bit soft, with over-assisted steering, but the chassis gave good feedback and it seemed to handle the parking lot bumps well. The V8 sounded gorgeous, but that 10-speed auto was very new and quite rough, with harsh changes and oddly spaced ratios. At the debrief, we all agreed that Sato wanted the new LC to follow in the steps of the LFA sports coupe, not its less well-received RC F.
The last event was at Willow Springs International Raceway, where the much modified Lexus prototype was now packing the latest changes to the suspension including new geometry and ball joints for the front wishbones, longer uprights, and revised air suspension settings – plus a rear steering system, which I understand will be optional for production.
It all felt much improved. I thought the rear steering required more programming work at high side forces where it seemed to fight against the car's natural balance, and that the front felt too soft. Dynamically, the competitive Porsche 911 Lexus brought along felt more at home on the track, its rear engine helping turn-in, but the LC 500 wasn't horribly outclassed and it compared really well with BMW's 6 Series.
QuoteIn the next few months as the LC 500 gets near its late-spring engineering sign off, Sato's prototypes will become more like the production cars, with carbon-fiber body parts including the roof, which will reduce the prototype's weight by 330 pounds to give a curb weight of 3,968 pounds and alter the center of gravity and the handling.
O boy.
Jeebus, hard to believe it is that heavy.
"We wanted it to feel more like the LFA instead of the RC-F, so we built a car even heavier than the RC-F with the same powertrain."
Seriously, is Lexus using all-iron motors?
Hey, a BMW 6-Series is 4,000 pounds. These are big automobiles.
"...but the LC 500 wasn't horribly outclassed and it compared really well with BMW's 6 Series."
Way to shoot for the stars, Lexus.
Quote from: ifcar on January 19, 2016, 06:35:31 AM
Hey, a BMW 6-Series is 4,000 pounds. These are big automobiles.
Yup, big GT's.
Quote from: ifcar on January 19, 2016, 06:35:31 AM
Hey, a BMW 6-Series is 4,000 pounds. These are big automobiles.
True, though the 6 series is based on a platform derived from the 5 and 7 series sedans. This Lexus is supposedly on a new, bespoke platform with "extensive use of aluminum and composite materials".
For whatever its worth the V8 F Type is also like 4000lbs and it is only a 2 seater.
I enjoy saying "I told you so" so... I told you so
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 12, 2016, 04:24:38 AM
most likely will be too heavy, no stickshift, annoying powerband for the street compared to its competition.
And as great as that V8 is it puts it at a distinct disadvantage to the competition. Lets see if Lexus screws first year buyers and comes back with the 4.0TT V8 this thing should have had in the first place :popcorn:
The F Type's weight is a complete enigma to me. It's practically all aluminum and the size of a 911. Sure, the new ones are AWD, but it's still a tank.
500+ lbft = a ton of metal for reinforcement. Ironic part is reviewers seem to all agree that the slower, lighter V6 versions are the better driving cars. The V8 ones are just for laughs and penis grafts. But the market is never wrong I suppose.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 19, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
500+ lbft = a ton of metal for reinforcement. Ironic part is reviewers seem to all agree that the slower, lighter V6 versions are the better driving cars. The V8 ones are just for laughs and penis grafts. But the market is never wrong I suppose.
Even the V6 is over 3700 lbs.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 19, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
500+ lbft = a ton of metal for reinforcement. Ironic part is reviewers seem to all agree that the slower, lighter V6 versions are the better driving cars. The V8 ones are just for laughs and penis grafts. But the market is never wrong I suppose.
Just because someone likes giant V8 engines does not mean they are compensating for something. :rolleyes:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 19, 2016, 01:22:05 PM
Just because someone likes giant V8 engines does not mean they are compensating for something. :rolleyes:
In the case of the F Type that's up for debate. It makes the car worse to drive.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 19, 2016, 01:45:26 PM
In the case of the F Type that's up for debate. It makes the car worse to drive.
Worse to drive at super illegal speeds. The V8 improves noise, acceleration, and changes the character to a more muscle car like personality. Some people prefer that to a sports car. I like both.
4,000 lbs sounds like a lot but the GS-F has about those power and weight stats and it's getting rave reviews for the driving experience, even though it is leagues behind in all-out acceleration stats (still runs in the upper 12s though). The performance of an M5 or RS7 or E63 sounds neato but you gotta suffer through turbo lag, AWD and an add'l 300-400 lbs.
The V8 in the F-Type is supercharged and has AWD standard, and that is a lot of added weight.
Is the standard AWD a recent thing? Because that's lame.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 19, 2016, 05:17:34 PM
4,000 lbs sounds like a lot but the GS-F has about those power and weight stats and it's getting rave reviews for the driving experience, even though it is leagues behind in all-out acceleration stats (still runs in the upper 12s though). The performance of an M5 or RS7 or E63 sounds neato but you gotta suffer through turbo lag, AWD and an add'l 300-400 lbs.
Oh please. Werent you just dumping on the GT350 for not being fast enough compared to its competition? I guess heavy boosted cars are OK when GM does it. Now all of a sudden you are Mr Naturally Aspirated Back Road Driving Experience. Please :pee:
Did someone say this thing does the quarter in 12.9
All of its German competition is deep in the 11s :wtf:
For the 3700lb muscle cars straight line performance is king but for 4000lb+ luxury behemots now its all about dynamics :banghead:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 19, 2016, 06:40:16 PM
Did someone say this thing does the quarter in 12.9
All of its German competition is deep in the 11s :wtf:
For the 3700lb muscle cars straight line performance is king but for 4000lb+ luxury behemots now its all about dynamics :banghead:
It's got 10 gears to get through.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 19, 2016, 06:40:16 PM
Did someone say this thing does the quarter in 12.9
All of its German competition is deep in the 11s :wtf:
For the 3700lb muscle cars straight line performance is king but for 4000lb+ luxury behemots now its all about dynamics :banghead:
Which ones are deep into the 11s?
Yep. 11.6, 11.7, and 11.6.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-5-2 (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-5-2)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 19, 2016, 05:57:02 PM
Is the standard AWD a recent thing? Because that's lame.
Relatively recent for V8 F Types. 2015 model year, I think. Maybe 2016. It supposedly makes the car much more manageable. The RWD V8s were reportedly a handful.
O its not as bad as I thought. F type V6 is like 3450 lbs. XF V6 is 3800. Still way heavy for an aluminum car but not as heavy as I thought.
I think the 911 Carrera has finally broken its <3100lb restriction with the turbos :(
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 19, 2016, 06:40:16 PM
Did someone say this thing does the quarter in 12.9
All of its German competition is deep in the 11s :wtf:
For the 3700lb muscle cars straight line performance is king but for 4000lb+ luxury behemots now its all about dynamics :banghead:
I know you are sniping at GoCougs but the funny thing with this Lexus is that even the dynamics don't sound particularly good (compared to its competition). So its not particularly fast nor does it handle particularly well.
But it looks interesting I guess. And it sounds like it might be more comfortable than the better performers. I can see it finding a niche.
It will have a "better driving experience". Whatever that means.
I really wish you guys would shut the fuck up about this car; it's not really meant to be anything more than a big GT car directly comparable to the 650i...and so far it looks like it does that. The technical, armchair, bench racing is fucking stupid
Also, the 650i does it in 12.9 seconds. They're not "deep into the 11's" and if you've driven a 6 series you'd know that most don't give a shit.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 20, 2016, 08:05:15 AM
I really wish you guys would shut the fuck up about this car; it's not really meant to be anything more than a big GT car directly comparable to the 650i...and so far it looks like it does that. The technical, armchair, bench racing is fucking stupid
Also, the 650i does it in 12.9 seconds. They're not "deep into the 11's" and if you've driven a 6 series you'd know that most don't give a shit.
It's ugly, it's heavy, it's overpriced, it does nothing better than its intended competition, and if you click on this link, you'll see its competition is much faster in the quarter mile.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-5-2 (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-5-2)
The M6 and the sports trims of these cars are a lot different than this; Lexus benchmarked the regular variants (6 series instead of M6)
If this is supposed to compete agains the 650i then Lexus has an even bigger problem on its hands. I cant imagine anyone spending $10-15K more to get this over the 6. Its priced like the performance variants
Design may, and pricing hasnt been finalized. Hell, production hasn't been finalized.
I'm liking it. Much better looking than anything in its theorized class, and a better motor too. Thing is the Japanese are behind ze Germans and Americans (GM) in hi-po slushy ATs so a Japanese 10 sp AT sounds sorta gooey and fidgety.
Your next ride, Koogz?
Nah, I still need a four door w/AWD.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 19, 2016, 08:15:22 AM
500+ lbft = a ton of metal for reinforcement. Ironic part is reviewers seem to all agree that the slower, lighter V6 versions are the better driving cars. The V8 ones are just for laughs and penis grafts. But the market is never wrong I suppose.
Perhaps, but while the V6 sounds great, the V8 makes me hard. One of the best non-supercar engines I've ever heard.
No doubt..... it's a phenomenal engine. But it's in search of a deserving chassis and transmission.
There is nothing wrong with the Jag F-Type chassis. It is what it is and is unapologetic for it. The F-Type is the first car I'm buying when (not if) I win the lottery. :rockon:
It's as heavy as an old GT500 or ZL1, but it's all aluminum and doesn't have a back seat. It could lose a couple hundred lbs
The F-Type is way too heavy. And the roof is very slow--over 10 seconds slower to stow than my Z4's roof, if I recall correctly. But I still love it. V6 6MT Roadster please.
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They got to drive on in the March issue of M/T. Lexus themselves told M/T curb weight is (now) ~4,300 lbs. Jesus, what that hell is going on inside to get to that weight? The GS-F (same motor and tranny, plus four doors, and ~6" longer) is only ~188" long (same as a Camaro or G37 sedan).
Lol keeps getting better and better. The fucking 10 year old LS460's curb weight is <4300lbs in its latest form. Jesus Christ Lexus.
Maybe they're putting lead shot in the frame so the car rides better. Like Cadillac used to do in their golden era.
Did they insulate the cars with asbestos too?
Iblike it, and that 10 speed will make sure it's always on point.
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QuoteFollowing the world premiere of the V8-powered LC 500, Lexus introduces the all-new Lexus LC 500h which features the world's first Multi Stage Hybrid System, the next generation of hybrid powertrains specifically designed for performance vehicles.
First revealed by Akio Toyoda at the 2016 North America International Auto Show, the styling, performance and craftsmanship of the new Lexus LC 500 clearly position it as the flagship coupe of the Lexus lineup. Inspired by the acclaimed LF-LC concept that debuted in 2012, the LC represents a shift in Lexus' engineering processes and design direction, and marks the beginning of a new phase for the Lexus brand.
Seduction & Technology Design
Combining avant garde elegance with dynamic coupe proportions, the seductive form of the new Lexus LC 500h remains remarkably true to the key design elements, proportions and visual dynamism of the award-winning LF-LC concept car that inspired it.
The Lexus LC 500h is enveloped by a glamorous exterior which represents a uniquely evocative, more fluid interpretation of Lexus' L-finesse design philosophy. With a long 2,870 mm (112.9 in) wheelbase, compact 920 mm (36.2 in) front and 970 mm (38.2 in) rear overhangs and a notably low bonnet line, the coupe's athletic profile is characterised by a sweeping roofline which tapers from the central position of the occupants, creating a uniquely human-centred silhouette.
Front and rear wings that house wide, large diameter wheels flare away from the centre position of the occupants, whilst the door sides are pulled inwards to create a powerfully three-dimensional form—in plan view, a new spindle architecture shape which mirrors Lexus' signature spindle grille. To the front, the latest interpretation of that spindle grille motif features chrome trim and a radical new mesh design of varying visual tension. The Lexus LC 500h's unique lighting signature combines independent, arrowhead Daytime Running Lights (DRL) with a triple LED headlamp unit, the ultra-compact engineering of which has helped to maintain the coupe's low bonnet line and short front overhang.
To the rear, the sweeping cabin roofline tapers between broad, muscular rear wheel arches to reinforce the Lexus LC 500h's wide, stable stance. The rear lamp signature is equally unique, a sequence of increasingly strongly lit L-shaped LED lamps that creates an exceptional three-dimensional impression. The outstanding driving dynamics of the Lexus LC 500h are also reflected in subtle yet functional aerodynamic measures. Front and rear wheel arch venting improves high speed stability, and a rear diffuser and active rear spoiler further manage airflow during performance driving.
The new Lexus LC 500h will be available with a choice of bespoke, 20" cast and 20" and 21" forged aluminium alloy wheels.
Driving Pleasure & Comfort
The all-new interior design of the Lexus LC 500h reflects the exterior design theme of dynamic luxury with a cabin that combines all the elegance, quality and sophistication of a Lexus premium coupe with high driving pleasure and comfort for passenger. Whilst the front passenger area is shaped to spread out towards the front, creating a comfortable and welcoming space, the driving position has been painstakingly created to invite spirited driving, and promote driver confidence through an intuitive control layout and ergonomic excellence.
The driver's hip point has been engineered to be as close as possible to the coupe's centre of gravity, maximising feedback from the vehicle to the driver. And the holding performance of the seats has been enhanced through a renewed focus on the cross-section design. Particular attention has been paid to the design of a new steering wheel, which features a change in cross-sectional shape throughout the rim circumference to accommodate variations in grip and the twisting of the wrist during operation. And new, larger magnesium alloy paddle shifters have been shaped for easier reach and a more positive action.
All information displays have been carefully arranged in order of importance by their proximity to the driver's sight line. The instrument binnacle itself houses a variation of the innovative driver's meter with moving centre ring from the LFA, and the centre console features a next-generation touch pad for the Remote Touch Interface (RTI).
The 2017 Lexus multimedia package debuts with the LC, and features faster, more flexible software enabling future enhancements and an updated graphic user interface. Listeners will also be treated to an exceptional audio experience inside the cabin: in addition to the available audiophile-worthy Mark Levinson audio package, a new premium Pioneer audio system comes as standard equipment.
Throughout the new interior, the quality and finish of upholstery, hand-stitched leather centre console and dash pad, and drape forming Alcantara door trim, reflect a level of Takumi craftsmanship and attention to detail for which Lexus is globally renowned.
Multi Stage Hybrid System
The Multi Stage Hybrid System was developed with opposing goals in mind: to create a hybrid with a more sporting and engaging driving experience by closely aligning engine speed with throttle inputs, and to achieve the best possible balance of power and fuel consumption.
The new Multi Stage Hybrid System marries the elements of a traditional full hybrid powertrain -including a 3.5 litre V6 petrol engine, a powerful electric motor and a lithium-ion battery pack to a 4-speed automatic gearbox mounted at the rear of the hybrid transmission. The electric motor generates better acceleration feel than a conventional engine, and adding physical gears more closely aligns engine rpm with the driver's inputs. The result is a much more direct connection between the accelerator pedal and vehicle acceleration, and 0-100 km/h times well into the sub-5 second range
The Lexus Multi Stage Hybrid System also features 'M' Mode—the first driver-initiated gear shifts offered on a Lexus full hybrid powertrain. 'M' Mode gives drivers the ability to initiate direct and responsive gear shifts for the most sporting and engaging drive yet from a Lexus hybrid. A new lightweight and compact electric motor and a lithium-ion battery offset the weight of the added automatic transmission, and so the Multi Stage Hybrid System weighs the same as the current hybrid powertrain—an amazing feat of engineering.
All-New Platform
Heralding a new generation of more engaging and responsive vehicles, the new Lexus LC 500h has been designed to offer customers a significantly sharper, more refined driving experience. It combines the superior ride quality befitting a flagship luxury sports coupe with an engaging, dynamic drive and a depth of character unlike that of any previous Lexus.
The Lexus LC 500h is the first Lexus to benefit from the company's all-new, premium rear-wheel drive platform; part of a new corporate global architecture for luxury vehicles (GA-L). The underpinnings of this new coupe will become the blueprint for future front-engine/rear-wheel drive Lexus models.
Platform design is fundamental to dynamic handling characteristics. At the outset, Lexus engineers focused on what they refer to as the Lexus LC 500h's "inertia specification", placing most of the vehicle mass, including the engine and occupants, as low and centralised as possible within the chassis.
The powertrain mass is located behind the front axle line creating a "front mid-ship" layout while very short front and rear overhangs push the large diameter tyres to the vehicle extremities. The wheels are shod with run-flat tyres that eliminate the weight and weight-distribution penalty of a full-size spare tyre, while driver hip and heel points have been substantially lowered.
The centre of gravity has been further lowered by the introduction of numerous technical innovations which reduce the body weight of the Lexus LC 500h. These include aluminium front hood and fenders, aluminium door skins mounted on a carbon fibre structure, a carbon and glass composite boot lid, aluminium front suspension towers, ultra-compact LED headlamps, available forged alloy wheels and carbon fibre roof.
The extensive use of strategically located high-tensile steel body structures reduces weight, improves weight-distribution and increases body rigidity, all of which promote consistent, predictable handling behaviour and sharper steering responses.
Particular attention has been paid to the development of the Lexus LC 500h's multi-link front suspension system, adopted to allow for the vehicle's large diameter wheels while at the same time accommodating a very low bonnet line.
The system features two upper and two lower control arms, with double ball joints on each arm. This arrangement optimises suspension geometry to facilitate precise control from driver inputs and road conditions, creating a more precise steering response.
Optimising the sharpness in both steering and suspension movement, sprung weight has been reduced as much as possible through the extensive use of lightweight, forged aluminium componentry. And the system demonstrates exceptional rigidity under lateral g loading.
In combination, these chassis and suspension development measures offer an entirely natural, non-taxing driving experience which combines sharp responses, exceptional handing balance and straight line stability with the ride comfort appropriate to a Lexus flagship coupe.
Class-Leading Safety Standards
The new Lexus LC 500h is fitted, as standard, with the Lexus Safety System +, a newly developed portfolio of active safety technologies designed to help prevent or mitigate collisions across a wide range of traffic situations.
Combining a camera and millimetre-wave radar for a high level of detection performance, the Lexus Safety System+ features a Pre-Crash Safety (PCS) system with a pedestrian detection function, which helps prevent or mitigate the severity of collisions, All-speed Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane-Keeping Assist (LKA), and Automatic High Beam (AHB) headlamp technology.
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Interesting concept. Truthfully I prefer the concept of a performance hybrid to turbocharging.
"In the new Lexus LC500 hybrid, we have married the stirring V6 engine and electric motor from the exciting RX400h hybrid to a state of the art 4 speed automatic gearbox to provide the ultimate driver experience."
Wait..... I thought that was just for the hybrid side. Is that for everything? O me o my Lexus what are u doing.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 18, 2016, 06:21:34 AM
Wait..... I thought that was just for the hybrid side. Is that for everything? O me o my Lexus what are u doing.
I was under the impression they coupled a 4AT to their standard Synergy Drive (which is a CVT by necessity to tie the two electric motors and gas motor together). I would guess that the CVT is programmed to hold a fixed ratio when gear changes are commanded of the secondary gearbox to provide similar feel to a finite ratio box.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 18, 2016, 05:48:59 AM
Interesting concept. Truthfully I prefer the concept of a performance hybrid to turbocharging.
:nutty:
Quote from: MX793 on February 18, 2016, 06:29:39 AM
I was under the impression they coupled a 4AT to their standard Synergy Drive (which is a CVT by necessity to tie the two electric motors and gas motor together). I would guess that the CVT is programmed to hold a fixed ratio when gear changes are commanded of the secondary gearbox to provide similar feel to a finite ratio box.
There's no traditional auto or traditional CVT in the PSD, last I checked. It's a direct drive that used electric assist in lieu of gearing. There's only one speed.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 18, 2016, 10:02:54 AM
There's no traditional auto or traditional CVT in the PSD, last I checked. It's a direct drive that used electric assist in lieu of gearing. There's only one speed.
Synergy drive, as implemented in the Prius and every other Toyota hybrid to date, has a type of CVT that connects two motor/generators, the combustion engine, and drive wheels together. The way the gearbox works, the second motor generator controls the effective gear ratio based on its output speed and direction. The wiki article on how it works has a decent description with figures.
Quote from: thecarnut on February 18, 2016, 10:54:30 AM
Turbo > hybrid
Really? La Ferrari < P1? No.
A good NA + hybrid system > a good turbo. Hybrid tech just hasn't been developed well enough for performance yet. But with the LF/P1/918 it's clear things have changed for the better in the performance hybrid realm. Won't be long.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 18, 2016, 11:14:38 AM
Really? La Ferrari < P1? No.
A good NA + hybrid system > a good turbo. Hybrid tech just hasn't been developed well enough for performance yet. But with the LF/P1/918 it's clear things have changed for the better in the performance hybrid realm. Won't be long.
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't even like turbos but there's no way I'd want anything with a hybrid system.
Quote from: thecarnut on February 18, 2016, 11:28:39 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree then. I don't even like turbos but there's no way I'd want anything with a hybrid system.
Why? Not even a KERS type system?
I am not talking about a big heavy system. I am thinking something like a motor between the clutch and diff and a lightish battery. For 100lb or w/e that would help with emissions, low end torque etc as well as weight distribution. Prius battery is ~100lb and that's down from 167lbs in the original. There's potential there.
As power adders go, I'd put hybrid systems, including KERS, about equal with NOS. Both can be depleted while driving if used heavily. Hybrid has the benefit of self-replenishing, but adds considerable weight when compared to Nitrous.
Quote from: MX793 on February 18, 2016, 06:29:39 AM
I was under the impression they coupled a 4AT to their standard Synergy Drive (which is a CVT by necessity to tie the two electric motors and gas motor together). I would guess that the CVT is programmed to hold a fixed ratio when gear changes are commanded of the secondary gearbox to provide similar feel to a finite ratio box.
The way I understand it is the 4spd is added to expand the range/spread of the cvt
I love this thing. It's ridiculously good looking in person. Who gives a shit how much it weighs? That's not the point of this car.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 18, 2016, 07:03:49 AM
NA > turbo
Turbo is better than hybrid, you unthusiast. 911 Turbo vs. Prius C.
Electric power sucks and is stupid.
Quote from: Raza on February 18, 2016, 03:33:48 PM
Turbo is better than hybrid, you unthusiast. 911 Turbo vs. Prius C.
Electric power sucks and is stupid.
LaFerrari vs anything turbo. No. Not that simple.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 18, 2016, 06:30:22 PM
LaFerrari vs anything turbo. No. Not that simple.
Trying to convince me with the LaFerrari won't work. Ferrari LaFastPrius.
Quote from: MX793 on February 18, 2016, 06:29:39 AM
I was under the impression they coupled a 4AT to their standard Synergy Drive (which is a CVT by necessity to tie the two electric motors and gas motor together). I would guess that the CVT is programmed to hold a fixed ratio when gear changes are commanded of the secondary gearbox to provide similar feel to a finite ratio box.
C&D's preview writeup confirmed my suspicion. They adapted their Synergy Drive hybrid setup (with 2 electric motors and CVT) to a RWD platform and then slapped a 4AT to the output of the CVT. In "sport" mode, the 4AT and CVT combine to create/simulate a 10 speed gearbox. In regular mode, it drives like a CVT. Based on reported output, the V6 and electric motors appear to be lifted straight from the RX400h (~350 total peak power). I find their claim of sub-5 seconds to 60 in a car that will weigh well over two tons to be a bit optimistic unless that transmission is magic.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2018-lexus-lc500h-hybrid-coupe-photos-and-info-news (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2018-lexus-lc500h-hybrid-coupe-photos-and-info-news)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 18, 2016, 06:45:52 PM
F40.
I saw one in LA last week. One of the best sounding cars I've ever heard.
http://youtu.be/GJCJsAeHJnc (http://youtu.be/GJCJsAeHJnc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci_ESngxFEY
Love this thing
Quote from: 68_427 on February 20, 2017, 05:17:46 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci_ESngxFEY
Love this thing
He is a fucktard
Quote from: r0tor on February 20, 2017, 03:45:35 PM
He is a fucktard
a bit
I can't believe people let him drive their cars.
OTOH, he's better than many of his kind.
Quote from: r0tor on February 20, 2017, 03:45:35 PM
He is a fucktard
I'll wait for your review then :ohyeah:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 20, 2017, 03:50:55 PM
a bit
I can't believe people let him drive their cars.
OTOH, he's better than many of his kind.
His whole shtick is people get give him their car for fame and then there is a 10 min video of some canyon road driving going "wow this is great"
Why is he a fucktard for that....? :confused:
Quote from: r0tor on February 20, 2017, 04:31:57 PM
His whole shtick is people get give him their car for fame and then there is a 10 min video of some canyon road driving going "wow this is great"
Aside from the fame thing, this is how car reviews generally work
Your jealousy is palpable man, JFC :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on February 20, 2017, 03:45:35 PM
He is a fucktard
Quote from: r0tor on February 20, 2017, 04:31:57 PM
His whole shtick is people get give him their car for fame and then there is a 10 min video of some canyon road driving going "wow this is great"
Who does he think he is, producing all that free content for you? And he has the nerve to enjoy it too! What a lunatic.
NA V8? Hmm, give it a real transmission and I'd be all over it! It's got a bicycle gearbox now, hand-actuated 10 speed?
Also, I can't tell for sure 100%, and I don't know what you guys think of him, and I didn't watch the whole video (though is this the same guy from the Boxster vid? They're a bit blah, if that's the one), but I have to give him some props. I'm pretty sure that is a vintage steel Rolex GMT Master II Pepsi bezel. Can't tell for sure because I can't get a good look at the crown, but it seems to have the more delicate lugs of the older model as opposed to the more squared off lugs of the newer white gold version. Pretty desirable version. I was expecting some huge look-at-me monstrosity akin to what Guy Fieri wears on D, D, and D, but that shows some taste.
Quote from: Raza on February 20, 2017, 11:36:36 PM
NA V8? Hmm, give it a real transmission and I'd be all over it! It's got a bicycle gearbox now, hand-actuated 10 speed?
Also, I can't tell for sure 100%, and I don't know what you guys think of him, and I didn't watch the whole video (though is this the same guy from the Boxster vid? They're a bit blah, if that's the one), but I have to give him some props. I'm pretty sure that is a vintage steel Rolex GMT Master II Pepsi bezel. Can't tell for sure because I can't get a good look at the crown, but it seems to have the more delicate lugs of the older model as opposed to the more squared off lugs of the newer white gold version. Pretty desirable version. I was expecting some huge look-at-me monstrosity akin to what Guy Fieri wears on D, D, and D, but that shows some taste.
Matt's a watch guy like yourself. He's posted some things on his Instagram periodically. And it's a regular auto but with paddle shifters.
Quote from: Raza on February 20, 2017, 11:36:36 PM
NA V8? Hmm, give it a real transmission and I'd be all over it! It's got a bicycle gearbox now, hand-actuated 10 speed?
Also, I can't tell for sure 100%, and I don't know what you guys think of him, and I didn't watch the whole video (though is this the same guy from the Boxster vid? They're a bit blah, if that's the one), but I have to give him some props. I'm pretty sure that is a vintage steel Rolex GMT Master II Pepsi bezel. Can't tell for sure because I can't get a good look at the crown, but it seems to have the more delicate lugs of the older model as opposed to the more squared off lugs of the newer white gold version. Pretty desirable version. I was expecting some huge look-at-me monstrosity akin to what Guy Fieri wears on D, D, and D, but that shows some taste.
If you like youtube car reviews he's one of the better ones. His signature format is his "one takes," where he ad-libs a review on the spot while driving canyons. He's not the harshest reviewer but that just seems to be his personality. He also reviews a lot of older cars, built cars, and customs, which is nice change of pace from the cookie-cutter format of a lot of these guys.
About ~1/2 of his reviews are done with owners. Some are a little awkward, but even the socially inept owners tend to open up and give neat insights into their rides.
This one turned the cringe up to 11.... I literally could not sit through this video, this owner was too annoying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue4GwMsMkAw
That is definitely one of the most interesting aspects of the channel. I feel like mine would be really interesting :lol:
I hate the damn shift paddles that turn with the wheel. Why the fuck.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 20, 2017, 06:27:09 PM
Aside from the fame thing, this is how car reviews generally work
Your jealousy is palpable man, JFC :lol:
Not jealous... Just the fact that he brings absolutely no ideas, info, or insight in practically any review. All he literally does for 10 min on every review is go "oh wow that's great. Wow"
Quote from: Tave on February 20, 2017, 10:54:30 PM
Who does he think he is, producing all that free content for you? And he has the nerve to enjoy it too! What a lunatic.
He is making some nice $$$ for making those videos in exchange for YouTube tracking me and subjecting me to advertisement - far from free content
...:confused: It's free for you. Money is not leaving your pocket every time you watch a video.
You're also free to just not watch? I'm so confused by all this pent up anger at a free youtube channel :lol:
Quote from: Tave on February 21, 2017, 07:08:45 AM
If you like youtube car reviews he's one of the better ones. His signature format is his "one takes," where he ad-libs a review on the spot while driving canyons. He's not the harshest reviewer but that just seems to be his personality. He also reviews a lot of older cars, built cars, and customs, which is nice change of pace from the cookie-cutter format of a lot of these guys.
About ~1/2 of his reviews are done with owners. Some are a little awkward, but even the socially inept owners tend to open up and give neat insights into their rides.
Love the One Take vids. Matt's a pretty cool cat.
Unfortunately I think he has a big wreck coming. Some of those cars are way over powered.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 21, 2017, 08:42:50 AM
I hate the damn shift paddles that turn with the wheel. Why the fuck.
Because, like the race cars they are patterned after, it allows you to shift while turning without moving your hand position on the wheel.
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 11:09:18 AM
Because, like the race cars they are patterned after, it allows you to shift while turning without moving your hand position on the wheel.
I doubt this car's steering ratio is such that it can be driven without ever removing your hands from the wheel, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 21, 2017, 11:16:50 AM
I doubt this car's steering ratio is such that it can be driven without ever removing your hands from the wheel, but I could be wrong.
You won't go around parking lots with both hands firmly on the wheel, but you WILL go down twisty roads that way. IN fact, most twisty roads and race tracks don't require full lock cornering when taken properly. Try it. Go to your favorite twisty backroad and, other than shifting, see how much steering angle you really ever have to feed in. You'll be surprised how little steering angle you actually have to use. Which makes paddle shifters moving with the wheel perfectly acceptable.
Matt Farah is probably my favorite reviewer this side of Chris Harris (who is also practically my idol). I love the LC and would totally own one.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 21, 2017, 11:02:13 AM
Love the One Take vids. Matt's a pretty cool cat.
Unfortunately I think he has a big wreck coming. Some of those cars are way over powered.
Agreed on all accounts
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 11:20:15 AM
You won't go around parking lots with both hands firmly on the wheel, but you WILL go down twisty roads that way. IN fact, most twisty roads and race tracks don't require full lock cornering when taken properly. Try it. Go to your favorite twisty backroad and, other than shifting, see how much steering angle you really ever have to feed in. You'll be surprised how little steering angle you actually have to use. Which makes paddle shifters moving with the wheel perfectly acceptable.
I prefer always knowing where the shift paddle is instead of having it move with the wheel. Just my preference.
I drove an E46 M3 with the paddles on the wheel and didn't like it.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on February 21, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
I prefer always knowing where the shift paddle is instead of having it move with the wheel. Just my preference.
When you're halfway through a corner, and your hands are at 90 degrees to straight, and you need to shift, having it at your fingertips is nice. It's a learning curve, but it's much faster shifting when you don't have to remove your hands from the wheel mid corner.
Quote from: MrH on February 21, 2017, 10:57:26 AM
...:confused: It's free for you. Money is not leaving your pocket every time you watch a video.
You're also free to just not watch? I'm so confused by all this pent up anger at a free youtube channel :lol:
I haven't watched his channel in a long time... Utter click bait crap
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 11:38:40 AM
When you're halfway through a corner, and your hands are at 90 degrees to straight, and you need to shift, having it at your fingertips is nice. It's a learning curve, but it's much faster shifting when you don't have to remove your hands from the wheel mid corner.
Shifting mid corner is generally frowned upon
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 11:38:40 AM
When you're halfway through a corner, and your hands are at 90 degrees to straight, and you need to shift, having it at your fingertips is nice. It's a learning curve, but it's much faster shifting when you don't have to remove your hands from the wheel mid corner.
So what are you doing shifting mid corner? ;)
Most cars' wheel-mounted paddles are smaller such that hands have to be at or fairly near 9 and 3 in order to shift. Column mounted paddles tend to be much larger which gives more flexibility on hand position. However, what with the explosion of dash graphics and the like, proper (large) column-mounted shifters are a PITA to package.
I much prefer column-mounted paddles - my experience comes from, amazingly, given how much the rest of the car is ho-hum, the Infiniti Q50.
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 11:20:15 AM
You won't go around parking lots with both hands firmly on the wheel, but you WILL go down twisty roads that way. IN fact, most twisty roads and race tracks don't require full lock cornering when taken properly. Try it. Go to your favorite twisty backroad and, other than shifting, see how much steering angle you really ever have to feed in. You'll be surprised how little steering angle you actually have to use. Which makes paddle shifters moving with the wheel perfectly acceptable.
I guess autox or reverse 180s are out of the question. What a bunch of bullshit.
And I drive a Versa. You'd be surprised how much sturring angle it requires.
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 11:38:40 AM
When you're halfway through a corner, and your hands are at 90 degrees to straight, and you need to shift, having it at your fingertips is nice. It's a learning curve, but it's much faster shifting when you don't have to remove your hands from the wheel mid corner.
I've never shifted halfway through a tight corner that required the wheel to be 90 degrees from straight. A sweeper, sure, but then the wheel is only tilted a few degrees off center, making large column mounted paddles still easy to reach.
Ferrari and Lamborghini mount their paddles to the column.
I've driven BMW's and Audi's with shift paddles. IIRC both had the paddles on the wheel? Ergonmics of having the paddle of the wheel seemed fine at the time. I guess I'd have to try a car with paddles on the column to get a feel for the difference.
Increasing or decreasing radius sweepers get shifting in the corner, so can cloverleaf on or offramps, especially as you feed in throttle after the apex. Autocross is lower speed and usually done primarily in one gear (second) once you actually get started. So it's not an issue there, either. Ergonomically it just works to have the shifter match your hand position. Ferrari street cars have column mounted paddles that are extremely long so you can catch them at nearly any point, but if you're crossed up in an autocross in one of them you'll still have issues getting to the paddle, so your argument is specious.
And the race cars?
(http://img.tomshardware.com/uk/2005/06/27/thg_at_the_races/sauber_steeringwheel2_page6.jpg)
Lol, yes, the LC500 is just like an F1 car, so the paddles should be on the wheel. Strong argument.
Wheel mounted is clearly superior. For starters F1 + LMP1 + GT3 = wheel mounted. Naturally the day I come home to some BS worthy of a debunking video Forza needs a 1.5 GB update.... but we will debunk this shortly.
Quote from: GoCougs on February 21, 2017, 11:58:11 AM
Most cars' wheel-mounted paddles are smaller such that hands have to be at or fairly near 9 and 3 in order to shift.
Where else would your hands be while driving at the track :confused:
Quote from: MrH on February 21, 2017, 03:41:18 PM
Lol, yes, the LC500 is just like an F1 car, so the paddles should be on the wheel. Strong argument.
What functional advantage do column mounted paddles have? And why have paddles at all if you are going to hamper their function, regardless of the car they are in :confused:
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Increasing or decreasing radius sweepers get shifting in the corner, so can cloverleaf on or offramps, especially as you feed in throttle after the apex. Autocross is lower speed and usually done primarily in one gear (second) once you actually get started. So it's not an issue there, either. Ergonomically it just works to have the shifter match your hand position. Ferrari street cars have column mounted paddles that are extremely long so you can catch them at nearly any point, but if you're crossed up in an autocross in one of them you'll still have issues getting to the paddle, so your argument is specious.
And the race cars?
(http://img.tomshardware.com/uk/2005/06/27/thg_at_the_races/sauber_steeringwheel2_page6.jpg)
I thought you just said you wouldn't need to change gears in an autocross course, so what's with this whole "getting crossed up and not being able to find the paddles" thing? And what kind of sweepers are you driving on that require 90 degrees or more of wheel input?
Steering mounted paddles your hands in a specific spot. Long column mounted paddles allow you a lot more freedom with hand placement while still being able to hit the paddles.
In the end, neither one is a deal breaker. As I said, I just prefer the column mounted ones.
In the end, it's just a Lexus that old men will buy and leave in auto mode, so the paddles don't even fucking matter.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 03:43:11 PM
What functional advantage do column mounted paddles have? And why have paddles at all if you are going to hamper their function, regardless of the car they are in :confused:
Most street cars don't have steering racks quick enough to be able to keep your hands at a single position on the wheel for day to day driving. For that reason, I prefer large column mounted paddles.
Quote from: MrH on February 21, 2017, 04:19:52 PM
Most street cars don't have steering racks quick enough to be able to keep your hands at a single position on the wheel for day to day driving. For that reason, I prefer large column mounted paddles.
I'm still not quite buying it.... when are you shifting gears with the wheel turned >120 or so degrees?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE5UJa2q2js
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 05:54:19 PM
I'm still not quite buying it.... when are you shifting gears with the wheel turned >120 or so degrees?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE5UJa2q2js
When you're not playing video games.
Quote from: ChrisV on February 21, 2017, 03:39:32 PM
Increasing or decreasing radius sweepers get shifting in the corner, so can cloverleaf on or offramps, especially as you feed in throttle after the apex. Autocross is lower speed and usually done primarily in one gear (second) once you actually get started. So it's not an issue there, either. Ergonomically it just works to have the shifter match your hand position. Ferrari street cars have column mounted paddles that are extremely long so you can catch them at nearly any point, but if you're crossed up in an autocross in one of them you'll still have issues getting to the paddle, so your argument is specious.
And the race cars?
(http://img.tomshardware.com/uk/2005/06/27/thg_at_the_races/sauber_steeringwheel2_page6.jpg)
That's not a steering wheel, that's a steering yoke for a race car - hands have only one position to exist and the steering rack is super high ratio.
Sweepers have a large turn radius, so even on a street car, this means steering wheel input is small.
Column mounted FTW. Anytime you're gonna get confused where they are, you will also get confused with wheel-mounted ones. But you shouldn't be confused where the column ones are mounted, since they're always in the same spot.
If you are confused by paddles you shouldn't be driving imo
I don't think I can even tell you (yet) where the shifter paddles on the Merc are mounted. To be fair, I've only taken it on a twisty road exactly once. And even then, I had to turn back around after 10 minutes because there were stopped cars up ahead due to weather conditions.
I do use them to downshift coming to a red light, though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
If you are confused by paddles you shouldn't be driving imo
Primary controls should not spin around to end up in different locations, upside down, inaccessible, or requiring the use of alternating hands depending on steering angle. This is not an F1 car with a half turn lock-to-lock. This is a street car. There should be no question as to whether or not a primary control is confusing, and steering wheel shifters are. The only reason manufacturers get away with this lazy solution is because there is an automatic mode and/or a console shifer.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
If you are confused by paddles you shouldn't be driving imo
So I'm assuming you'd like steering mounted turn signals as well? :hammerhead:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 21, 2017, 07:31:47 PM
Primary controls should not spin around to end up in different locations, upside down, inaccessible, or requiring the use of alternating hands depending on steering angle. This is not an F1 car with a half turn lock-to-lock. This is a street car. There should be no question as to whether or not a primary control is confusing, and steering wheel shifters are. The only reason manufacturers get away with this lazy solution is because there is an automatic mode and/or a console shifer.
Paddle shifters in a street car are not primary controls. For example you can't go into reverse with paddle shifters. They're in the same category as shit like radio controls or cruise control.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on February 21, 2017, 07:40:47 PM
So I'm assuming you'd like steering mounted turn signals as well? :hammerhead:
You operate your turn signals in the middle of a turn? :confused:
Well they are called TURN signals...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 07:47:10 PM
You operate your turn signals in the middle of a turn? :confused:
Yeah.
I get steering mounted paddles for track driving. If it's a high performance car, the wheel shouldn't be any more than 90* and the hands don't need to be moved around
On the street though, not everyone has their hands at 9-3, especially if a shift is needed when pulling out of a 90* turn to assist in minimizing wheelspin or maximizing wheelspin, parking lots.. plenty of examples where the hand positions need to be adjusted away from 9-3, but a shift may be wanted.
Luckily this car has 10 gears so chances are unless you're a dumbass whatever gear you're in should be fine. Oh you wanted 4th gear? Meh 5th will do
Quote from: Rich on February 21, 2017, 11:06:18 PM
Yeah.
I get steering mounted paddles for track driving. If it's a high performance car, the wheel shouldn't be any more than 90* and the hands don't need to be moved around
On the street though, not everyone has their hands at 9-3, especially if a shift is needed when pulling out of a 90* turn to assist in minimizing wheelspin or maximizing wheelspin, parking lots.. plenty of examples where the hand positions need to be adjusted away from 9-3, but a shift may be wanted.
This kind of wheelspin can be managed with patience.....
I would like to try driving a 13-speed tractor-trailer with steering wheel paddles.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 05:54:19 PM
I'm still not quite buying it.... when are you shifting gears with the wheel turned >120 or so degrees?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE5UJa2q2js
:lol:! You driving a video game on a track is not a good representation of what we're talking about at all.
Quote from: 68_427 on February 21, 2017, 05:48:22 AM
Matt's a watch guy like yourself. He's posted some things on his Instagram periodically. And it's a regular auto but with paddle shifters.
Nice. I posted the vid over at my watch forum, and people seem to be in consensus that it's the vintage steel GMT with the anodized aluminum bezel and not the current model in white gold with a ceramic bezel. That's taste. Those old Pepsi GMTs are sought after. The new ones aren't as appetizing, partly because the white gold makes it feel less of a usable watch (and really increases the weight, if my experience with solid gold watches is consistent), and it also pushes the price up to around $39,000. Which is a lot, when the steel version (not offered in that color anymore) costs $8,300 for the all black bezel (getting blue/black pushes the price to $9,900, which is a similarly ridiculous price increase just for a two color bezel. I mean, $1,600 just for a a bit of blue on the bezel? That's insane; you can get a whole, very good watch for $1600).
Quote from: Tave on February 21, 2017, 07:08:45 AM
If you like youtube car reviews he's one of the better ones. His signature format is his "one takes," where he ad-libs a review on the spot while driving canyons. He's not the harshest reviewer but that just seems to be his personality. He also reviews a lot of older cars, built cars, and customs, which is nice change of pace from the cookie-cutter format of a lot of these guys.
About ~1/2 of his reviews are done with owners. Some are a little awkward, but even the socially inept owners tend to open up and give neat insights into their rides.
That's cool. These days, I tend to be like those guys who sit around and watch ESPN Classic all day. I mostly just watch old episodes of Top Gear. But I'll give this guy a try. Not everyone needs to be the Simon Cowell of their given profession.
Quote from: Raza on February 22, 2017, 10:06:43 AM
Nice. I posted the vid over at my watch forum, and people seem to be in consensus that it's the vintage steel GMT with the anodized aluminum bezel and not the current model in white gold with a ceramic bezel. That's taste. Those old Pepsi GMTs are sought after. The new ones aren't as appetizing, partly because the white gold makes it feel less of a usable watch (and really increases the weight, if my experience with solid gold watches is consistent), and it also pushes the price up to around $39,000. Which is a lot, when the steel version (not offered in that color anymore) costs $8,300 for the all black bezel (getting blue/black pushes the price to $9,900, which is a similarly ridiculous price increase just for a two color bezel. I mean, $1,600 just for a a bit of blue on the bezel? That's insane; you can get a whole, very good watch for $1600).
I find the GMT to be hit or miss in many categories, but do prefer the early GMT 400 as the best compromise between technology and serviceability.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 05:54:19 PM
I'm still not quite buying it.... when are you shifting gears with the wheel turned >120 or so degrees?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE5UJa2q2js
You wobbly ass motherfucker.....
I generally prefer column-mounted paddles, because I think they're more practical more of the time. I mean, I prefer no paddles and three pedals instead, but increasingly that's just me. For track driving, maybe it makes sense to have them wheel mounted. But I did notice that you actually did shift your hands on the wheel quite a bit. Seems like your natural driving position is more like 10 and 2, but you had to shuffle down to 9 and 3 for shifting. Not a big thing, but I saw that.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 22, 2017, 10:13:36 AM
I find the GMT to be hit or miss in many categories, but do prefer the early GMT 400 as the best compromise between technology and serviceability.
The GMT400 is a good all around piece of equipment.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2017, 05:54:19 PM
I'm still not quite buying it.... when are you shifting gears with the wheel turned >120 or so degrees?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE5UJa2q2js
"Ohhhh fuck" :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Raza on February 22, 2017, 10:16:38 AM
You wobbly ass motherfucker.....
I generally prefer column-mounted paddles, because I think they're more practical more of the time. I mean, I prefer no paddles and three pedals instead, but increasingly that's just me. For track driving, maybe it makes sense to have them wheel mounted. But I did notice that you actually did shift your hands on the wheel quite a bit. Seems like your natural driving position is more like 10 and 2, but you had to shuffle down to 9 and 3 for shifting. Not a big thing, but I saw that.
Triangulation :huh:.
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 22, 2017, 02:01:46 PM
Triangulation :huh:.
I drive at 9 and 3. I never found 10 and 2 all that comfortable.
Quote from: Raza on February 22, 2017, 02:13:09 PM
I drive at 9 and 3. I never found 10 and 2 all that comfortable.
10 and 2 is more more conservative drivers. 9 and 3 drivers are more aggressive, in my experience.
I switch according to mood. When I am in a more sedate mood, I do 10 and 2. When I want to open it up, I lean to 9 and 3.
I drive at all times.
The G37xS has them on the column, and I originally thought these would be the way to go, but after using them for a few years, I much prefer wheel mounted ones. Column mounted ones seem better in theory because they are always in the same place, but in real life they are annoying to use unless the wheel is dead straight, and when you are driving hard, rarely is the steering wheel perfectly straight. You are always hunting/thinking about where the paddles are in relation to your wheel because mostly your hands don't leave their positions on the wheel. The GT-R recently went from column mounted ones to wheel mounted ones because the column mounted ones were not popular.
Quote from: dazzleman on February 22, 2017, 02:33:33 PM
But you're a shity driver... :evildude:
You can't count my go kart times. Those things are rigged. :rage:
Quote from: Raza on February 22, 2017, 02:13:09 PM
I drive at 9 and 3. I never found 10 and 2 all that comfortable.
I meant to fix his rickety frame holding the steering wheel.
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 22, 2017, 03:56:43 PM
I meant to fix his rickety frame holding the steering wheel.
Oh. I thought you were tracking his cell phone. :lol: