CarSPIN Forums

Auto Talk => ⚡ Electric Power ⚡ => Topic started by: Payman on June 14, 2021, 11:26:37 AM

Title: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Payman on June 14, 2021, 11:26:37 AM
I don't think this surprises anyone here...

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/lordstown-doesn-t-have-money-to-build-endurance-ev-pickup-top-execs-resign/ar-AAKQmiJ?ocid=msedgntp
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.

I really don't understand all these EV pickup startups.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Laconian on June 14, 2021, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.

I really don't understand all these EV pickup startups.

They get $
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Submariner on June 14, 2021, 04:33:13 PM
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.

I really don't understand all these EV pickup startups.

EV is a hot commodity, and EV trucks are going to be a necessity in the "economy of the future".

Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 04:44:37 PM
Quote from: Submariner on June 14, 2021, 04:33:13 PM
EV is a hot commodity, and EV trucks are going to be a necessity in the "economy of the future".
Seems to me like the dot com market, all the little guys trying to come up with something that the big guys buy into...only on a less frenetic scale.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: GoCougs on June 14, 2021, 08:32:24 PM
Not a surprise at all - they'll ALL fail if left to their own (retail) devices. The closest they're gonna get at viability is as a sole source provider (i.e., Amazon funding Rivian, USPS funding Oshkosh, etc.).
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: MrH on June 15, 2021, 07:22:24 AM
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.


No, that's the exact problem.  Elon inspired all sorts of EV fraud (Lordstown, Nikola, Workforce, etc).  When the regulators don't do their job, this is the end result.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: GoCougs on June 15, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
Quote from: MrH on June 15, 2021, 07:22:24 AM
No, that's the exact problem.  Elon inspired all sorts of EV fraud (Lordstown, Nikola, Workforce, etc).  When the regulators don't do their job, this is the end result.

That's definitely part of it, but there's also a whole lot of pan and general irrational exuberance desperate for The Next Big Thing.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Laconian on June 15, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on June 15, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
That's definitely part of it, but there's also a whole lot of pan and general irrational exuberance desperate for The Next Big Thing.

Way too much dumb money sloshing around in the market.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Payman on June 15, 2021, 11:56:29 AM
Quote from: Laconian on June 15, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Way too much dumb money sloshing around in the market.

The Juicero crowd is rotten with cash.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Payman on June 15, 2021, 05:19:16 PM
Checked in on the Elio Owners Group. Oh my, what a sad and lonely place.  :lol:
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: AutobahnSHO on June 16, 2021, 08:27:39 PM
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 04:44:37 PM
Seems to me like the dot com market, all the little guys trying to come up with something that the big guys buy into...only on a less frenetic scale.


Quote from: GoCougs on June 15, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
That's definitely part of it, but there's also a whole lot of pan and general irrational exuberance desperate for The Next Big Thing.

Yup.

Buzzword of two years ago was "blockchain".
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Submariner on June 16, 2021, 10:23:40 PM
Quote from: Rockraven on June 15, 2021, 05:19:16 PM
Checked in on the Elio Owners Group. Oh my, what a sad and lonely place.  :lol:

Wasn't there a former 'Spinner who worked/used to work there?
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Laconian on June 16, 2021, 11:43:22 PM
Quote from: Submariner on June 16, 2021, 10:23:40 PM
Wasn't there a former 'Spinner who worked/used to work there?

Teuton used to do PR at Faraday Future, which was a hilarious EV horrorshow.
Then he moved to Mazda.
Now he works at Audi.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Payman on June 17, 2021, 10:44:13 AM
Quote from: Laconian on June 16, 2021, 11:43:22 PM
Teuton used to do PR at Faraday Future, which was a hilarious EV horrorshow.
Then he moved to Mazda.
Now he works at Audi.

I thought Faraday was after Mazda?
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: AutobahnSHO on June 18, 2021, 06:23:41 PM
Lol I forgot about Faraday
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: AutobahnSHO on June 18, 2021, 06:25:55 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-faraday-future-m-a-property-solutions/electric-vehicle-firm-faraday-future-to-go-public-via-3-4-billion-spac-deal-idUSKBN29X15T
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: Morris Minor on June 24, 2021, 06:34:31 AM
It's a mini dot-com boom/bust, like 1999: lots of silly money chasing no-hopers. Like 1999, the underlying tech will eventually take off, but capital will flow to just a small handful of big players who will have gobbled that tiny number of startups with ideas/innovations that have actual worth, leaving the trash to face prosecutors, lawsuits & bankruptcy.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: r0tor on June 25, 2021, 08:00:42 AM
Quote from: Rockraven on June 15, 2021, 05:19:16 PM
Checked in on the Elio Owners Group. Oh my, what a sad and lonely place.  :lol:

Ugh... I had a coworker that drank that koolaid and had a deposit.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: r0tor on June 25, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
Quote from: Morris Minor on June 24, 2021, 06:34:31 AM
It's a mini dot-com boom/bust, like 1999: lots of silly money chasing no-hopers. Like 1999, the underlying tech will eventually take off, but capital will flow to just a small handful of big players who will have gobbled that tiny number of startups with ideas/innovations that have actual worth, leaving the trash to face prosecutors, lawsuits & bankruptcy.

It's actually more like the auto industry 100 years ago with tons of small startups tinkering with the new technology.  Which is fitting since an EV is pretty much a different ball game as several established auto makers have finally figured out.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: GoCougs on June 28, 2021, 07:11:17 AM
Quote from: r0tor on June 25, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
It's actually more like the auto industry 100 years ago with tons of small startups tinkering with the new technology.  Which is fitting since an EV is pretty much a different ball game as several established auto makers have finally figured out.

No, not really. EVs have been in widespread industrial use for decades. There ain't any new tech new under the sun. What's new actually is the shocking levels of exuberance and government force in trying to invent a business out of EVs.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: r0tor on June 28, 2021, 07:31:36 AM
Yes, we have had powerwheels and electric golf carts for decades... No, we have not had cars with ranged of 300 miles, fantastic performance, and relative affordability until a few years ago.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: CaminoRacer on June 28, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
EVs are a thing now and are much more popular (more market share + public knowledge/awareness) than ever before, I don't know how you can still be an EV denier.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: GoCougs on June 28, 2021, 11:23:01 AM
Quote from: r0tor on June 28, 2021, 07:31:36 AM
Yes, we have had powerwheels and electric golf carts for decades... No, we have not had cars with ranged of 300 miles, fantastic performance, and relative affordability until a few years ago.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 28, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
EVs are a thing now and are much more popular (more market share + public knowledge/awareness) than ever before, I don't know how you can still be an EV denier.

Not quite. It's all about facts, data and logic.

Telsa's been pumping out its Model S wares for 9 years now, and here we are, little closer to parity with ICE, including making a business case out of it.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: r0tor on June 28, 2021, 06:58:55 PM
The Mustang Mach E is outselling the Mustang.  The model 3 is the best selling sports sedan.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: GoCougs on June 28, 2021, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: r0tor on June 28, 2021, 06:58:55 PM
The Mustang Mach E is outselling the Mustang.  The model 3 is the best selling sports sedan.

Great, but revenue alone does not a business make hence the money-losing proposition of Tesla, Bolt, and any other EV ever sold (but I repeat myself).
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: AutobahnSHO on June 29, 2021, 08:14:29 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on June 28, 2021, 08:31:23 PM
Great, but revenue alone does not a business make hence the money-losing proposition of Tesla, Bolt, and any other EV ever sold (but I repeat myself).

There are plenty of HYUGE businesses which do not make money. Our entire farming industry would fall apart without subsidies.
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: r0tor on June 29, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
Oil industry would have ended decades ago
Title: Re: The Dogs of Lordstown
Post by: AutobahnSHO on June 29, 2021, 06:06:15 PM
Quote from: r0tor on June 29, 2021, 10:31:03 AM
Oil industry would have ended decades ago

yup