Well it turns out the front pads on my Z have all kinds of hairline fractures in them. I'm not sure why they did this, but I think that age and heat were factors. The pins that the pads are supposed to slide on got rusty and seized up, which is where the heat comes from.
Those cracks may also explain the very loud barking/squeeling when I got on the brakes.
Anyway, I need to pick out new ones. I do ocassionally autocross with this car, but I don't rack up many miles. My wheels are painted gunmetal gray, so dust isn't an issue. I want a high performance, yet perfectly streetable compound.
Of course I don't want the fronts to grip so good that the rear shoes can't keep up, so a matching set of shoes would be great, but I don't know if I can get those.
Here's what I found at tirerack:
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/results.jsp?autoMake=Datsun&autoModel=280Z&autoYear=1976&autoModClar=
My uncle owns a CarQuest store, so if anyone knows anything about their pads and shoes I could get a discount.
Hawk Pads are nice, they are what I will be putting on my car shortly. Does CarQuest sell EBC? They are decent as well.
I'm only going off of what I have experience with, but I've been happy with both Hawks and EBC Green Stuff pads.
I currently use EBC RedStuff. I've used the Green Stuff in the past as well, but like the extra bite I get from the RedStuff. If you ever need rotors though, never get the EBC rotors. They are complete junk. I've heard good things about the Hawk pads as well.
I'm also looking at Porterfield front and rear brake pads/shoes in the R-4S compound:
Porterfield R4-S 1976 NISSAN 280Z AP114 $ 69.95 SHOE480 $ 79.95
brake pads are very application specific... usually street pads have great initial bite (which you need for emergency stopping on the street) while race pads don't stop for crap until they heat up.
So with that in mind, just make sure you get a performance street compound - and I think you'll find in this category there is little performance advantage of one good name company over the other good company.... like Hawk, EBC, Portfield, Satisfied, ect.
Let's face it, they are all probably made in the same factory in China anyway.
Different packaging though.
:lol:
Depends on what you want. There are all sorts of different compounds available.
You can get pads with a lot of bite, but they will wear quicker.
When I replaced the pads on my Escape I went with Raybestos dustless pads. I noticed a slight difference in "bite. They didn't bite as well as the factory pads which created all kinds of unsightly brake dust but the car has power brakes and I have a strong right leg so it really didn't make much difference.
Quote from: The Pirate on December 20, 2006, 10:15:29 PM
Let's face it, they are all probably made in the same factory in China anyway.
Different packaging though.
:lol:
Haha, I can picture some dude at the end of the production line adding different food colorings to the brake pads :lol:
Nah that's not true.
There are many different kinds of pads and they do make a difference. There's metallic, semi-metallic, organic, ceramic, etc.
Sounds like the Porterfield R4S is a little too noisy, even for my intents and puposes. I'm about to head on over to my uncle's store to see if he has those EBC pads you guys were talking about.
Like I said, I don't care how many miles I get out of these pads. I bought the car in 2003 at ~28,000 and now it reads ~31,000, I think.
I put Axxis Ultimates in the Miata, and those were great. Dusty, but quiet.
The best thing you can do is replace with stock rubber hoses with stainless steels.
I've heard mixed opinions about that...
Quote from: Psilos on December 21, 2006, 11:55:00 PM
I've heard mixed opinions about that...
Me too. You make the pedal stiffer which may or may not make them more difficult to modulate and therefore make them easier to lock up.
What I generally do is have midgets ride great danes behind me, and when I give them a shout, they pull back and stop me when I need it. It works surprisingly well.
Quote from: Raza on December 22, 2006, 12:24:41 AM
What I generally do is have midgets ride great danes behind me, and when I give them a shout, they pull back and stop me when I need it. It works surprisingly well.
Drunk again?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on December 21, 2006, 01:32:00 PM
Nah that's not true.
There are many different kinds of pads and they do make a difference. There's metallic, semi-metallic, organic, ceramic, etc.
I know, the imagery was pretty funny tho. :ohyeah:
I did some research and I think the BEST option is actually to get Porterfield R4S pads/shoes at all four corners.
The problem with upgrading the fronts and putting crap shoes on the rear drums is that the balance will be thrown off. It's probably best to find matching shoes and pads and the only way I can get them to match is to buy Porterfields.
The only problem is that they're $80 for the front and $70 for the rear shoes. :mask: Those pads probably offer the best braking you can get without on a Z car without some really sticky tires.
BTW, the rear drums on my Z work great. As long as you can lock 'em up and they don't fade too much, you have enough brake.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 21, 2006, 10:26:57 PM
The best thing you can do is replace with stock rubber hoses with stainless steels.
Typically those are a silicone (or other other plastic) tube encased in a braided stainless steel tube. One problem I have heard of is abrasion between the two leading to brake line leakage, on the front brakes because the hose moves whenever you turn the steering wheel. I don't know how likely that is but it is worth considering. For street use the brake lines work just fine.
I decided to get Hawk HPS brake pads. They came today and look much better than the crap that was on there.
Turns out that 3/4 pistons were seized up in the front calipers, so I need new ones. No wonder it was a bitch and a half to push around in the garage.
Here's what I'm pouring into my brakes:
Hawk HPS performance brake pads $60 shipped
Bendix rebuilt front calipers $70
Rear wheel cylinder seal kit $8
Carquest premium rear shoes $20
Nissan front brake hardware kit $35 shipped
New DOT 4 fluid (hopefully nothing assuming we have enough)
I didn't plan on putting so much into my brakes, but I didn't think they were this bad! :confused:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on December 22, 2006, 12:13:17 AM
Me too. You make the pedal stiffer which may or may not make them more difficult to modulate and therefore make them easier to lock up.
It does make the pedal stiffer, and it may make very light braking modulating more difficult (like when backing for instance), but it makes modulation at the heavier end more predictable. You don't get the same amount of stroke, but you know when you're on the brakes.
It may take a little while to get used to, but when you do (if you ever try it) you'll agree with me.
Quote from: etypeJohn on December 22, 2006, 06:40:55 AM
Typically those are a silicone (or other other plastic) tube encased in a braided stainless steel tube.? One problem I have heard of is abrasion between the two leading to brake line leakage, on the front brakes because the hose moves whenever you turn the steering wheel.? ?I don't know how likely that is but it is worth considering.? For street use the brake lines work just fine.
Usually its teflon; and I've never had that problem. I suppose it may be a possibility.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 02, 2007, 11:00:31 PM
I decided to get Hawk HPS brake pads. They came today and look much better than the crap that was on there.
Turns out that 3/4 pistons were seized up in the front calipers, so I need new ones. No wonder it was a bitch and a half to push around in the garage.
Here's what I'm pouring into my brakes:
Hawk HPS performance brake pads $60 shipped
Bendix rebuilt front calipers $70
Rear wheel cylinder seal kit $8
Carquest premium rear shoes $20
Nissan front brake hardware kit $35 shipped
New DOT 4 fluid (hopefully nothing assuming we have enough)
I didn't plan on putting so much into my brakes, but I didn't think they were this bad! :confused:
You're not planning on using brake fluid from an open container you have sitting around, are you?
All that expensive new stuff and you think I'm using old brake fluid?
I'm not that dumb! :lol:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 02, 2007, 11:19:35 PM
All that expensive new stuff and you think I'm using old brake fluid?
I'm not that dumb! :lol:
Sorry, there's just something about the words 'free' and 'new' being in the same sentence that tripped a breaker somewhere in my noggin'.
Soup, which brand SS lines did you go with?
Quote from: R-inge on January 04, 2007, 07:31:55 PM
Soup, which brand SS lines did you go with?
Goodrich.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 04, 2007, 07:42:15 PM
Goodrich.
Ok. I saw those on TireRack for my Scoob and was contemplating them. Wanted to make sure before i bought them though, and if you haven't had any problems in a number of miles they're probably ok. How many miles approx have you been running them?
Quote from: R-inge on January 04, 2007, 11:05:08 PM
Ok.? I saw those on TireRack for my Scoob and was contemplating them.? Wanted to make sure before i bought them though, and if you haven't had any problems in a number of miles they're probably ok.? How many miles approx have you been running them?
About 15,000.
I just put new stuff on my car I put on Brembo OE rotors and Hawk Performance Ceracmic pads and they are really powerful. I really like them plus they don't make hardly any dust and they are QUIET not like the OE ones- but they were bad so ?? They were about 280 for rotors and about 250 for pads plus hardware package front and rear install. I added PBR calipers too for a few dollars more.
Quote from: rohan on January 05, 2007, 11:39:48 AM
I just put new stuff on my car I put on Brembo OE rotors and Hawk Performance Ceracmic pads and they are really powerful. I really like them plus they don't make hardly any dust and they are QUIET not like the OE ones- but they were bad so ?? They were about 280 for rotors and about 250 for pads plus hardware package front and rear install. I added PBR calipers too for a few dollars more.
Um, PBR calipers for a few dollars? You already have PBR brake calipers if it's the GTO in your pic.
UPDATE:
My dad and I started working on the rear drums today. We rebuilt the cylinders, but I'm not sure if I should replace the hardware.
The springs are really rusty and old, but is it a good idea to replace them? My dad thinks they're fine, but since I'm replacing everything else, what's another $20.95? Should I replace the springs, pins, shims, etc?
I've also decided to get stainless steel brake hoses since mine are pretty old and the rubber is split open. They are $67 from Motorsport.
I replace the hardware, but usually it is included with the rear shoes.
But if your dad is spending the money...let him make the call. :lol:
I'd replace the hardware as well, if only for the sole fact that if one of those springs craps the bed in the next couple of months, you don't want to pulling apart your brakes again so soon. In the grand scheme of things, $20 for a spring kit isn't a bad deal at all.
Let us know what you think of the steel brake lines too, I might be putting those on my car come nice weather.
Nope. I pay the bill.
I didn't get that with the shoes. I'm a little concerned as I found one of my springs disconnected from the shoe and the shoe was just dragging on the drum, but my dad thinks he may have just installed it wrong last time we were in there.
I don't know much about metallurgy (yet) but it seems to me 30 years and tons of corrosion can make springs wear out.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on December 20, 2006, 06:01:22 PM
I'm also looking at Porterfield front and rear brake pads/shoes in the R-4S compound:
Porterfield R4-S 1976 NISSAN 280Z AP114 $ 69.95 SHOE480 $ 79.95
Good you found that. Porterfield is one of the few companies that makes performance brake
shoes.
Hawk HP+ pads bite really good cold and hot, but they might be too much even for the Porterfield shoes. They also make a lot of dust. You don't want really good pads on one end and stock ones on the other... as I found out the hard way when setting up my 91 Civic for autox. I put HP+ pads on the front, and some stock semi-metallic shoes in the rear, and I had mojor problems with locking up the front wheels.
Hawk HPS pads are excellent on a street car. I put a set on the front of my friend's Saturn SL1 (with stock drums in the rear), along with a new set of 195 Bridgestone G009 tires, and I couldn't believe how well that car stopped. It was just awesome, I really couldn't believe that car would have such strong brakes.
It's been about 40,000 miles now, and the pads are only half gone, if that, so they do last long time as well.
Quote from: R-inge on January 05, 2007, 01:11:09 PM
Um, PBR calipers for a few dollars?? You already have PBR brake calipers if it's the GTO in your pic.
I was being smartass.? Yes I know it had them but the front two were rusted up and one wouldn't open all the way and the other wouldn't close all the way. either needed to be rebuilt or replaced so I just replaced them.? I guess I shoulda been more clear sorry. :huh: :(
I've put on about 2500 miles since I got these brakes and I love em.? They don't squeal and make almost no dust on the rims.? Plus I was going slightly? ;) :rolleyes: above the speedlimit of 55 the other day and had a deer run out and I made a dead stop from _ _ _ mph and they didn't warp or burn the rotors!? If that were a Crown Vic police car I'ld need new brakes now.
Quote from: rohan on January 21, 2007, 09:19:52 AM
I was being smartass. Yes I know it had them but the front two were rusted up and one wouldn't open all the way and the other wouldn't close all the way. either needed to be rebuilt or replaced so I just replaced them. I guess I shoulda been more clear sorry. :huh: :(
Haha, sorry. :lol:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 20, 2007, 10:36:05 PM
Nope. I pay the bill.
I didn't get that with the shoes. I'm a little concerned as I found one of my springs disconnected from the shoe and the shoe was just dragging on the drum, but my dad thinks he may have just installed it wrong last time we were in there.
I don't know much about metallurgy (yet) but it seems to me 30 years and tons of corrosion can make springs wear out.
All metals have fatigue life, and corrosion with effectively reduce it.
Quote from: R-inge on January 21, 2007, 09:36:44 AM
Haha, sorry. :lol:
No need to be sorry- I suck at the being funny ovcer the internet thing and should probably stop it! :nono: