Living with Speed Limits - HOW???

[cawimmer430]

I seriously need to ask this question.

With a Green-led government in Germany becoming very likely at the end of September, us car guys have to get used to even more bans, fault finding and of course massively higher fuel prices. The worst part will be that the Greens want to enforce a nationwide 130 km/h speed limit on the entire Autobahn network. They claim it's better for the environment (climate bla bla bla bla) and "safer" - which is all bullshit on their part as any halfway serious car expert can tell you.

Personally, I find cruising at 130 km/h for longer periods to be an absolute nightmare.

Why?

First of all, this speed is really slow. It's not speeding as far as I am concerned - it's crawling.  Then there's the fact that I drive a car with a lot of power and which at its top speed of 250 km/h (155 mph) is still very stable and well-planted. For such a car, driving at 130 km/h is nothing special at all - and you as the driver feel it. It's boring and comes across as slow, because I don't feel like I am going fast at 130 km/h in my car.

Second, for long periods, this sustained 130 km/h speed actually makes me become sleepy and my mood becomes aggressive. You're driving on a road which has been engineered for higher speeds and you're forced to drive at a pathetic 130 km/h. The new Autobahn from Munich to Mühldorf had for a short time a 40 km long section that was limited to 120 km/h (thankfully that's gone now). Whenever I drove here, I set my cruise control to 125 km/h and became utterly enraged and pissed off after not even a kilometer. This speed is slow. Really slow. Pathetically slow.

Without trying to sound arrogant, I am a good driver. I follow the rules (mostly). My situational awareness is very good - I never drive in a way that hinders or angers motorists behind me for example. I know my limits and the limits of my car. And - I am at my best when I am driving fast. That's where my concentration is at its best.

Also, it's not like I drive fast all the time. For longer journeys I actually like to cruise at a comfortable speed - which for me is 150-160 km/h - with the occasional burst into the 200 km/h+ zone for shorter periods. I've tried forcing myself to cruise at 120-130 km/h for some periods and I just can't... I always end up driving faster and feeling better and like I am actually getting somewhere on time.

For me, the point of a highway is for you to get as quickly and comfortably from A to B. And when I am cruising at 150-160 km/h, I find that speed to be quick (and my car is still quite fuel efficient at that speed) and comfortable. 120-130 km/h is slow and uncomfortable to me, primarily because my emotions turn sour and I become aggressive, moody and after awhile sleepy.

So, any tips on how to deal with the boredom and sleepiness that will come when the Greens win and we're penalized with pathetic 130 km/h (or even slower!) speed limits are greatly appreciated! How do you guys cope with speed limits on a long road trip across the vastness of your nation? That would interest me!

And yeah, the cops-will-clock-you argument does not count. That's a given if speed limits are in place.

And yeah, I listen to good music which relaxes me - good old 1970s and 1980s pop music! Kenny Loggins "DANGER ZONE" is especially thrilling at 250 km/h! 

[MX793]

Americans generally fly a lot to get to other parts of America rather than drive.

Munich to Mühldorf is only like 80km.  Hardly a long drive, even at only 120 km/h.

[r0tor]

Americans just ignore speed limits

[Laconian]

How do I cope? Adaptive cruise control and resigning to the fact that A) most people are terrible, distracted drivers and B) it's far easier to enact killjoy laws than it is to deal with the driver skill deficit.

[CaminoRacer]

130 km/h is 80 mph and us Americans are THRILLED when the speed limit is that high. It's only 80 mph in western states when you're driving through rural/desert areas. And 80 mph speed limit means you're pretty safe going 90 mph (144 km/h)

Although we ignore the 70 mph (112 km/h) limits and go 80 mph most of the time anyway. I see no need to go more than 80 mph frequently, and certainly don't want idiot drivers around me all going 100 mph. They crash & flip their giant trucks enough at 70-80 mph.

I did get more tickets when I lived around Cincinnati, because the speed limits were typically 55-65 mph and I like going 70-80 mph.

[GoCougs]

I just drive however the hell I want to, and don't worry about it. I generally do the speed limit (or ~5 mph over which is basically the same thing far as I'm concerned) and follow other common traffic laws on surface streets. Generally, I keep it to 130 kph/80 mph on freeways. Sometimes I'm up to 145 kph/90 mph on occasion. The last number of times I've gotten tickets I had lawyers get them dropped and have had 100% success - I view it as a driving fee, and one over the course of my driving career is just a few pennies a day. Well worth it (i.e., this is how I live with it).

One does have to be mindful - getting popped for 200 kph/125 mph in the US is probably criminal offense (arrest, jail time, car impounded, big fines, insurance penalties) and what with car black boxes and smart phones excess speeding WILL be used against you in criminal and civil court cases should you be involved in a crash. Also, outside that my bet is 99% of our freeways are not designed for 200 kph/125 mph even absent traffic - from the curves, to crowning, to ruts, to road surface. I'd say that 80% of our freeways are not even designed for speeds above 130 kph / 80 mph

[CaminoRacer]

I just drive however the hell I want to, and don't worry about it. I generally do the speed limit (or ~5 mph over which is basically the same thing far as I'm concerned) and follow other common traffic laws on surface streets. Generally, I keep it to 130 kph/80 mph on freeways. Sometimes I'm up to 145 kph/90 mph on occasion. The last number of times I've gotten tickets I had lawyers get them dropped and have had 100% success - I view it as a driving fee, and one over the course of my driving career is just a few pennies a day. Well worth it (i.e., this is how I live with it).

One does have to be mindful - getting popped for 200 kph/125 mph in the US is probably criminal offense (arrest, jail time, car impounded, big fines, insurance penalties) and what with car black boxes and smart phones excess speeding WILL be used against you in criminal and civil court cases should you be involved in a crash. Also, outside that my bet is 99% of our freeways are not designed for 200 kph/125 mph even absent traffic - from the curves, to crowning, to ruts, to road surface. I'd say that 80% of our freeways are not even designed for speeds above 130 kph / 80 mph

Road design is probably a big difference between us and Wimmer. If he's driving on autobahns built for easy 130 mph cruising, yeah he'll feel like 80 mph is slow. Even little things like the length of the road lines influence the visual feeling of speed.

[cawimmer430]

Americans generally fly a lot to get to other parts of America rather than drive.

In a Green-run Germany that won't be possible for many since they want to ban domestic flights. First they will tax the shit out of kerosene in order to prevent the masses from enjoying affordable flights.

Rail is not an alternative if you ask me. The German rail system is overrated, unreliable, slow, overpriced, prone to delays and breakdowns (or the occasional suicide on a track which means hours of delay...), malfunctioning A/Cs during the summer, malfunctioning heaters during the winters and since 2015 unsafe.

The Japanese are doing it right. The Shinkansen system is phenomenal, especially since those trains can theoretically reach 400 km/h or more and actually drive at those speeds.

Munich to Mühldorf is only like 80km.  Hardly a long drive, even at only 120 km/h.

The route I take is around 95 km, but even then I find driving at a steady 120 km/h to be incredibly agitating and infuriating. I know it's because of the German car feel I am spoiled by. The ex-BMW 118i and current A250 AMG Line are very stable at higher speeds, so slower cruising speeds cannot be felt in them. Even lesser German cars which I have driven drive well on the Autobahn.

I remember when I was tasked to shoot an early 2010s Dodge Durango V6. The company dropped the car off at my place and the next day I drove down to Kitzbühel in Austria to photograph it. The handling of that SUV was so terrible on the Autobahn that I actually didn't mind driving at 120 km/h. 120 km/h was the speed this thing felt safe at because of the lifeless steering feedback and soft suspension. Drive it any faster and I felt like I wouldn't be able to control it.

[cawimmer430]

Americans just ignore speed limits

Same.

I mean I tend to drive 3-5 km/h over the speed limit in the city, and on the Autobahn 10-15 km/h over the limit. If I am caught on radar paying the fine is worth it to me.

[cawimmer430]

How do I cope? Adaptive cruise control and resigning to the fact that A) most people are terrible, distracted drivers and B) it's far easier to enact killjoy laws than it is to deal with the driver skill deficit.

We have our share of crappy drivers here, which in recent times have become more.

Supporters of speed limits claim that a nationwide speed limit of 120-130 km/h equates to more safety. Well, I've had some pretty nasty situations in which I was overtaking a convoy of trucks on the Autobahn at 125 km/h in a 120 km/h speed-limited zone and the dumbass trailing a truck decides to change lanes out of the blue. Even at 125 km/h, that is a harrowing situation.

What the pro-speed limit wackos ignore is that in Germany most car accidents and car-related deaths happen on state roads (100 km/h speed limit), NOT on the Autobahn. But even here the Greens want to piss us motorists off. They want to reduce the speed limit from 100 km/h to a pathetic sleep-inducing 70 km/h. I mean WHAT THE FUCK!? 

[cawimmer430]

130 km/h is 80 mph and us Americans are THRILLED when the speed limit is that high. It's only 80 mph in western states when you're driving through rural/desert areas. And 80 mph speed limit means you're pretty safe going 90 mph (144 km/h)

Although we ignore the 70 mph (112 km/h) limits and go 80 mph most of the time anyway. I see no need to go more than 80 mph frequently, and certainly don't want idiot drivers around me all going 100 mph. They crash & flip their giant trucks enough at 70-80 mph.

I did get more tickets when I lived around Cincinnati, because the speed limits were typically 55-65 mph and I like going 70-80 mph.

Is there a tolerance system from the police?

Like here it's generally if I am driving 130 km/h in a 120 km/h zone, the cops will automatically subtract 7 km/h from my speed meaning I was driving 123 km/h in a 120 km/h zone.

[cawimmer430]

I just drive however the hell I want to, and don't worry about it. I generally do the speed limit (or ~5 mph over which is basically the same thing far as I'm concerned) and follow other common traffic laws on surface streets. Generally, I keep it to 130 kph/80 mph on freeways. Sometimes I'm up to 145 kph/90 mph on occasion. The last number of times I've gotten tickets I had lawyers get them dropped and have had 100% success - I view it as a driving fee, and one over the course of my driving career is just a few pennies a day. Well worth it (i.e., this is how I live with it).

One does have to be mindful - getting popped for 200 kph/125 mph in the US is probably criminal offense (arrest, jail time, car impounded, big fines, insurance penalties) and what with car black boxes and smart phones excess speeding WILL be used against you in criminal and civil court cases should you be involved in a crash. Also, outside that my bet is 99% of our freeways are not designed for 200 kph/125 mph even absent traffic - from the curves, to crowning, to ruts, to road surface. I'd say that 80% of our freeways are not even designed for speeds above 130 kph / 80 mph

One thing I forgot to think of is that our Autobahns are designed and engineered for high speeds, while the highways of the rest of the world are not. In essence it's probably easier to drive "slower" on your highways because of this. Here it's the opposite. The Autobahns are designed for high speeds so driving slow on them is something which you tend to notice, especially if you're passionate about cars like me.

The Autobahn is a great place to get to know your car and simply enjoy speeding (while still being situationally aware and respectful of other drivers) and feel a little automotive driving passion inside your heart while you do. Driving fast to me these days is not so much about thrill-seeking (it gets "old" after awhile...), but getting the feeling that I am actually making progress and getting somewhere fast and comfortably. A high speed in my opinion helps keep drivers altert while getting them from A to B in a shorter time.

[Laconian]

You say 70kph is snore inducing, but the prospect of going so fast during rush hour is a fantasy where I live.

But yeah, a lot of the speed limit shit is bogus. From an environmental POV there are bigger fish to fry first -- I'm looking at you, cruise and container ships!

[MX793]

In a Green-run Germany that won't be possible for many since they want to ban domestic flights. First they will tax the shit out of kerosene in order to prevent the masses from enjoying affordable flights.

Rail is not an alternative if you ask me. The German rail system is overrated, unreliable, slow, overpriced, prone to delays and breakdowns (or the occasional suicide on a track which means hours of delay...), malfunctioning A/Cs during the summer, malfunctioning heaters during the winters and since 2015 unsafe.

The Japanese are doing it right. The Shinkansen system is phenomenal, especially since those trains can theoretically reach 400 km/h or more and actually drive at those speeds.



The route I take is around 95 km, but even then I find driving at a steady 120 km/h to be incredibly agitating and infuriating. I know it's because of the German car feel I am spoiled by. The ex-BMW 118i and current A250 AMG Line are very stable at higher speeds, so slower cruising speeds cannot be felt in them. Even lesser German cars which I have driven drive well on the Autobahn.

I remember when I was tasked to shoot an early 2010s Dodge Durango V6. The company dropped the car off at my place and the next day I drove down to Kitzbühel in Austria to photograph it. The handling of that SUV was so terrible on the Autobahn that I actually didn't mind driving at 120 km/h. 120 km/h was the speed this thing felt safe at because of the lifeless steering feedback and soft suspension. Drive it any faster and I felt like I wouldn't be able to control it.

US rail is straight out of the Victorian era.  Any time I've looked at taking a train, even a relatively short trip like 350 miles, it's a multi-day trip (due to layovers).

I used to commute 90 km, each way, every day.  It's not that far.

You need to remember that most Americans drive pickups and SUVs like the Durango.  Vehicles like that are not meant for high speeds and can be downright unsettling above 130 km/h.

[GoCougs]

The Japanese are doing it right. The Shinkansen system is phenomenal, especially since those trains can theoretically reach 400 km/h or more and actually drive at those speeds.

They work well, as do the other Japanese rail systems, but they're colossally expensive and monolithic, and are principal in the slow and steady decline of Japan.

[FoMoJo]

One thing I forgot to think of is that our Autobahns are designed and engineered for high speeds, while the highways of the rest of the world are not. In essence it's probably easier to drive "slower" on your highways because of this. Here it's the opposite. The Autobahns are designed for high speeds so driving slow on them is something which you tend to notice, especially if you're passionate about cars like me.

The Autobahn is a great place to get to know your car and simply enjoy speeding (while still being situationally aware and respectful of other drivers) and feel a little automotive driving passion inside your heart while you do. Driving fast to me these days is not so much about thrill-seeking (it gets "old" after awhile...), but getting the feeling that I am actually making progress and getting somewhere fast and comfortably. A high speed in my opinion helps keep drivers altert while getting them from A to B in a shorter time.

Can you imagine, once all safety issues, etc. are sorted out on EVs, maybe in the next 15 years or so, blasting down the autobahn at maybe 300+ kph on Autopilot.

[veeman]

Without knowing the current "pulse" of the people in Germany my hunch is that the majority of Germans are proud of the Autobahn and what it represents.  So I do not think the high speed limits on it will be easily neutered.  Political parties not in power promise all sorts of things but when they actually come to power and have to legislate, what they promise and what actually ends up happening is often very far apart. 
.
If it does happen, then there will probably be ways for you to obtain your desire for speed but it will not be for getting from point A to point B.  Track membership will probably become more popular so people will have a way to drive very fast for pleasure and justify the cost of their high powered German luxury cars.  My guess is collectively, the big money and clout of Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche etc will come up with ways to justify selling high powered cars to their German clients.  It's their home turf after all. 

Audiobooks is how I deal with long commutes by myself.  It's the only "reading" of books I do and I usually get through a few books a year. I actually look very forward to hour long commutes because I enjoy "reading".

[r0tor]

US rail is straight out of the Victorian era.  Any time I've looked at taking a train, even a relatively short trip like 350 miles, it's a multi-day trip (due to layovers).


You need to remember that most Americans drive pickups and SUVs like the Durango.  Vehicles like that are not meant for high speeds and can be downright unsettling above 130 km/h.

I really use to limit my speed in the Grand Cherokee to 70mph... The brakes (especially before installing some better pads) were just not up to any emergency braking move.... and we'll swerving probably means instant death so your better off driving through something.

The RX8 barely would be driven above 70-75 mph since that's pushing 4k rpms in 6th gear... While still being smooth, the sound wears you down.

The Alfa though - 80mph is 2k rpms and feels like 60mph.  Even above 100mph it's sedate and buttoned down.


I would be OK raising some speed limits if they would keep commercial trucking limited to current limits or lower

[AutobahnSHO]

LOLOLOL

Germany= the size of Montana, with 80+million people. Go look at a map.

America just cannot have higher speed limits, even in Wyoming/ Texas because people are dummies and don't pay attention, left lane camp, drive too fast for weather conditions, etc...

I do miss the Autobahn though. Nothing like doing 120mph+ with a guard rail a couple feet to your left. (seriously go look at pictures.......)

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

LOLOLOL

Germany= the size of Montana, with 80+million people. Go look at a map.

America just cannot have higher speed limits, even in Wyoming/ Texas because people are dummies and don't pay attention, left lane camp, drive too fast for weather conditions, etc...

WOW! Never realized Germany was that small! And I agree with the rest!

[SJ_GTI]

WOW! Never realized Germany was that small! And I agree with the rest!

I would think of it as Montana being that big. 

[CaminoRacer]

Berlin to Frankfurt is about the same driving distance as SLC to Las Vegas, which is basically the nearest "big city" (has major league sports team, big concerts, etc)

So yeah, Germany is basically 1-2 western states big, but with a denser population.

[AutobahnSHO]

It truly amazed me once I really read up a bit on the country. Because you literally have lots of farmland and parks and open spaces but TONS AND TONS of people, too!

We lived on the edge of Mannheim. If the weather was good we walked about a mile to church- left base and through some area where many middle class people buy a tiny plot of land (maybe 10mx20m), build a shed and a garden and come out and chillax during the weekend.  I assume they all lived in the big high rise apartment buildings.

ALSO, when we set the cruise at 90mph on the Autobahn, we were passing 85% of the cars and trucks are speed limited to 62mph. Most people just didn't drive super fast (like Wimmer does ).

And also I assume that A LOT of people there don't own cars. Probably triple or quadruple the amount of the people in the US who don't have one. Because if you're in an apartment in the city with public transportation, you just don't need the expense.

[cawimmer430]

You say 70kph is snore inducing, but the prospect of going so fast during rush hour is a fantasy where I live.

But yeah, a lot of the speed limit shit is bogus. From an environmental POV there are bigger fish to fry first -- I'm looking at you, cruise and container ships!

Laconian,

It depends on which road you are. Some of the "highway-like connection roads" in the cities are boosted from 50 km/h to 60-70 km/h and that's plenty fast.

But our state roads are, like the Autobahns, engineered for high speeds - and 100 km/h (62 mph) is perfectly ok here. Yesterday I was driving back to Munich and on the way to the Autobahn I was on the state road B12 behind a truck. Trucks are allowed a maximum speed of 80 km/h on state roads and Autobahns. This guy was traveling at 70 km/h - and man, was it SLOW. It was literally crawling speed. Unbearable.

I am generally a logical-thinker and there is absolutely no reason in my mind for a road that has a 100 km/h speed limit to be reduced to 70 km/h.

[cawimmer430]

US rail is straight out of the Victorian era.  Any time I've looked at taking a train, even a relatively short trip like 350 miles, it's a multi-day trip (due to layovers).

That's insane.

My belief is that if rail travel was quick, efficient and brought you directly from A to B without any changeovers, and if the pricing was attractive, then it would easily be a substitute for domestic air travel. But that's clearly not the case in the US nor in Germany/Europe.

Plus, I like to be in control of my own mobility. That means if I have a project in Hamburg or another far-away city, by default I prefer to drive there because it gives me control of my mobility in that city. And, I need my car because of the equipment I need to carry.

You need to remember that most Americans drive pickups and SUVs like the Durango.  Vehicles like that are not meant for high speeds and can be downright unsettling above 130 km/h.

I understand that. The handful of Dodge RAMs and Durangos I've driven when I worked with AEC Europe taught me that these cars are not very fun to drive at anything over 120 km/h on the Autobahns.

However, don't you personally own a Ford Mustang and owned a Volkswagen Jetta which surely have great handling and can easily be driven and enjoyed at higher speeds? It must be hell for you to drive a Mustang on the highway knowing that you have so much power under the hood while being legally limited to a rather slow cruising speed.

[cawimmer430]

Without knowing the current "pulse" of the people in Germany my hunch is that the majority of Germans are proud of the Autobahn and what it represents.  So I do not think the high speed limits on it will be easily neutered.  Political parties not in power promise all sorts of things but when they actually come to power and have to legislate, what they promise and what actually ends up happening is often very far apart. 
.
If it does happen, then there will probably be ways for you to obtain your desire for speed but it will not be for getting from point A to point B.  Track membership will probably become more popular so people will have a way to drive very fast for pleasure and justify the cost of their high powered German luxury cars.  My guess is collectively, the big money and clout of Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Porsche etc will come up with ways to justify selling high powered cars to their German clients.  It's their home turf after all.

The Germans these days are not the Germans of the 1960s and 1990s who were proud of their country's achievement after World War II. Have you heard of Cancel Culture? That stuff is like "woke" here now and it's unbearable.

I'm waiting for the day when one of those cultural Marxists realizes that the Autobahn network was expanded (not invented) by the Nazi party before World War II and thus is something "negative" and needs to be banned.

Like I said, speeding is only one part of the Autobahn for me. I like to quickly get from A to B, and a cruising speed of 150-160 km/h is enjoyable and comfortable for me and makes me feel like I am actually getting somewhere. In between I'll speed up to 200 km/h+ for some short bursts of fun. Just yesterday I was all alone on a straight Autobahn and floored it. I hit 240 km/h (150 mph) and then a warning came up that I still had the 240 km/h winter tire limit on - awww man, I was planning on hitting 250 km/h (155 mph), the top speed of my car. 

Track driving is not for me, it's also not the forte of my car. My car handles nicely and is fun to drive on twisty country roads, but for the track even in Sport Mode (I have the Advanced Suspension which stiffens the suspension in sport mode) it's still rather soft and in extreme curves the body roll is quite heavy. For track driving the A35 AMG and A45 AMG are the cars to get.

[cawimmer430]

ALSO, when we set the cruise at 90mph on the Autobahn, we were passing 85% of the cars and trucks are speed limited to 62mph. Most people just didn't drive super fast (like Wimmer does ).

Indeed. Most drivers on the Autobahn will cruise at a slow 110-120 km/h (hopefully on the right lane).

Like I said, I enjoy cruising at higher speeds - 150-160 km/h are ideal. And for my car, which is still incredibly stable at 250 km/h top speed, a speed of 120-130 km/h is simply... nothing, hence my boredom and aggressiveness at those speeds if I am forced to drive them for longer periods.

The biggest problem these days on Autobahns are not the "speeders", but the idiots who hog the middle lane. As you know, there is a Rechtsfahrgebot (stick to the right) on thr Autobahn meaning that it's essentially a one-lane-road with the two left lane roads being only for overtaking purposes. In recent years there's been an increase in middle-lane-drivers, many foreign, but also many German, and they are a true danger on the Autobahn. When you encounter these drivers, you have to overtake them on the left since overtaking on the right is illegal. Thus, if some middle-lane-driver is crawling around at 100 km/h and the guy behind him is doing 105 km/h and pulls out left to overtake, that 105 km/h driver will slow down the traffic on the left lane that is driving much faster than 105 km/h. It's a vicious cycle and I experience it all the time. Whenever I encounter these idiots I feel like flashing my lights - but I think they're too dumb to understand what I mean. Maybe I need to put this sticker (which I designed myself) on the back of my car... 

[12,000 RPM]

Find new ways to enjoy driving

To me anything above 140kmh on the street is just a bigger number. When I went to France all the highways has that 130kmh limit. Everyone was zooming by at 150+and I found myself at the limit on the show lane. It was relaxing

[Laconian]

My inlaws live near a bunch of speed cameras

[Morris Minor]

Americans' driving skills are borderline Third World. There's no way in hell we could have unrestricted freeways.

In fact, on urban freeways, in the rush hours, I'd ruthlessly enforce a 40 mph (65 km/h) limit. Lane jumpers & weavers would be shot.
You'd move more traffic and stop the concertina stop/start jams. Outside the rush hours the limits could go back up to normal. But roadside executions would remain.