Poll

We're just starting with EVs. How long until they'll be developed enough for you?

We're already there. I'd go for one.
5 (41.7%)
By 2023-5
2 (16.7%)
By 2026-9
2 (16.7%)
2030 or beyond
3 (25%)
I'd never willingly have one.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Author Topic: When will EVs be Ready for You?  (Read 732 times)

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Offline ChrisV

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2021, 12:27:49 pm »
Already there for most people's realistic use cases. Sorry, but most people are NOT doing weekly 600 mile road trips. Most people don't live in apartments or homes without off-street parking., either.

The new Lightning will cost less than an equivalent gas F150 even without the federal tax incentive (which most fleet operators will be able to take advantage of). My Bolt (and all the 2020 and 2021 versions) have been priced between $20-25k which is well within parity for any other 200 hp hatchback of it's size class (no, it's not a crossover, though the new EUV is). After living with mine for over a year, there's really no such thing as range anxiety as it's proven to me just how far 300 miles really is. May be taking it next week up to my son's house in CT (6 hours away with a normal car, 6.5 hours in the Bolt), unless the weather says that we could take the Roadster.

If it's so close (and so obviously a good idea), why do governments need to carry on with such drastic action ~10 years later - (renewed) purchase tax credits, subsidies, wholesale bans on sales of ICE vehicles?


Because people (and corporations) are short sighted. Look at how they flock to gas guzzlers when the price of gas drops a buck only to turn around and scramble to sell when the gas price goes back up a buck... And corporations only look to the next quarter earnings, and not to long term issues. And add to that the massive amount of ignorance surrounding EVs and the pushback from oil companies and those that support them and yes, some incentives need to be put in place. Especilly with the subsidies and assistance given to oil companies and gasoline production in this country (who pays the bill for the US military making sure the oil tankers make it out of the middle east? The oil companies? Or you and I?)
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Offline Laconian

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2021, 12:31:53 pm »
Look at how rental companies sold off their rental fleets rather than suffer a few quarters of lower profits. :lol:
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Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2021, 12:39:21 pm »
I also don't like the interior or exterior of the Model 3. I just want a regular looking sedan/fastback that happens to be an EV

So the upcoming BMW 3 series EV
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Offline MrH

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2021, 04:05:01 pm »
Just ignore the fanboydom and ElonismTM. I agree that it's obnoxious but I get where it's coming from.  The dude built up the first legit EV car company in the world and revolutionized space travel with SpaceX...after he built and sold PayPal.  Most people can't get a small business off of the ground.  He revolutionized three industries.  No one else in history has done that.  Reminds me of that Bill Burr skit but Elon is way, way beyond even Arnold: https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-1-2-in-Corded-Hammer-Drill/50314841



Oh no…
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Offline 12,000 RPM

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2021, 04:08:26 pm »
So the upcoming BMW 3 series EV
That shit is like $70K and no faster than my TLX
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Offline FoMoJo

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2021, 04:45:12 pm »
Tesla Model S vs. E-Tron GT, Lucid Air, Mercedes EQS and Taycan: Luxury EVs compared

A whole lot of shots

The interior of the Mercedes is gorgeous,



but I'd take the Audi overall.



The Tesla looks kind of lame in comparison.


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Offline MaxPower

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2021, 06:11:27 pm »
Ford is supposed to be releasing a mid sized pickup next year- I would be shocked if there wasn't an electric version.

Toyota has such a robust hybrid program I’m surprised they haven’t done a hybrid Tacoma. Maybe truck consumers just really don’t want it or the engine would have to be so big to accommodate truck things that it would be pointless.

Offline Submariner

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2021, 06:16:12 pm »
The merc definately has the best interior of the bunch, but boy oh boy does the E-Tron/Tycan look good.

Offline Morris Minor

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2021, 07:28:23 pm »
Just ignore the fanboydom and ElonismTM. I agree that it's obnoxious but I get where it's coming from.  The dude built up the first legit EV car company in the world and revolutionized space travel with SpaceX...after he built and sold PayPal.  Most people can't get a small business off of the ground.  He revolutionized three industries.  No one else in history has done that.  Reminds me of that Bill Burr skit but Elon is way, way beyond even Arnold: https://www.lowes.com/pd/DEWALT-1-2-in-Corded-Hammer-Drill/50314841


What he's doing with Starlink is huge. Their first batch of satellites was launched two years ago - now there are nearly 1,800 up there, & the launch cadence just keeps picking up. What he's going to do with intra-satellite laser backhaul is really intriguing - a massive multi-shell spherical crossbar switching matrix. Even beta users are Starlink evangelists, with beta glitches & all, just like Tesla owners. Elon has incumbent ISPs shitting their pants already - so you know he's got a good heart.
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Offline AutobahnSHO

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2021, 07:37:12 pm »
Toyota has such a robust hybrid program I’m surprised they haven’t done a hybrid Tacoma. Maybe truck consumers just really don’t want it or the engine would have to be so big to accommodate truck things that it would be pointless.

Trucks have a lot of room under the hood and LOTS of room under the bed. Smaller trucks need to be designed better but still lots of potential.

(See "Ford Maverick".)
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Offline Submariner

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2021, 01:43:58 pm »
Oh no…

SpaceX is the biggest leap forward in launch tech since the R7.

Offline MrH

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2021, 02:07:50 pm »
He didn't build PayPal.  He hasn't run a profitable business ever.  He's the ultimate Subsidy Truffle Hound and fraudster.  Sing it with me, MONORAIL!

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Offline Submariner

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2021, 02:37:27 pm »
SpaceX represents the biggest advancement in space travel since the R7.  How is that not a monumental achievement?

Offline MrH

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2021, 03:01:08 pm »
What is a monumental achievement?  You didn't list an achievement.  You gave your opinion on the company.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2021, 03:09:48 pm »
* Landing reusable rockets neatly, ass first on the landing pad.
* Delivering satellite Internet that's as fast as anything terrestrial, with fees that aren't even an order of magnitude more expensive.
* Annihilating performance records set by $1m+ brands like Bugatti and Ferrari for a fraction of the price.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 03:11:59 pm by Laconian »
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Offline 12,000 RPM

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2021, 03:29:24 pm »
This is a funny discussion
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Offline MrH

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2021, 03:44:18 pm »
* Landing reusable rockets neatly, ass first on the landing pad.
* Delivering satellite Internet that's as fast as anything terrestrial, with fees that aren't even an order of magnitude more expensive.
* Annihilating performance records set by $1m+ brands like Bugatti and Ferrari for a fraction of the price.


1.  They landed rockets ass first on landing pads before.  In the 90s.  Cool trick?  Yes, but does it provide anything more than that?  The concept of reusable rockets being cheaper is dependent on a lot of factors.  It's not a given that is always the best route.

2. ????  What?  I just went to Starlink's website.  They're quoted $500 in equipment, $100/month, for 50-150 mb/s.  And in true Musk form, it says it will be available between mid and late 2021, but they're willing to take a deposit now :facepalm:.  That's not remotely competitive compared to what you can get now.  I get 500+ mb/sec for $100, with no setup or equipment fee.  Oh, and they're filling the sky with endless space junk that no one has agreed to.

3.  What performance records?  0-60?  Something that Tesla can only do once or twice before needing time to cool down?  Tesla has two advantages compared to other OEMs: an endless supply of capital from equity raises with no need to profitable due to its cult, and risk tolerance.  That's it.  They don't validate or follow any industry standard.  You get batteries that are charged and discharged at rates that are damaging long term to the battery packs.  Go give other OEMs the checkbook and cult that Tesla has, and you'll get a much better result.
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Offline Submariner

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2021, 04:43:28 pm »
What launch system has been operationally reusable?  The only one I can think of was the STS and that was extraordinarily expensive and wasn't even that reusable (much of the orbiter had to be replaced after every launch for example).

Falcon offers two modes, partial and fully expendable.  You trade total LEO payload for reusability, so to that end Falcon does provide flexibility in payload weight and cost.  It also means there is shorter turnaround time between launches.  There is no reason to think that current reusable modes won't be improved upon in the future, either. 

If you want a quick example of costs, compare the Falcon 9 Heavy vs. the Delta IV Heavy, or even Atlas V or the upcoming Vulcan to the Falcon 9. 

Offline ChrisV

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2021, 05:34:08 am »
MrH doesn't know what he's talking about as usual.

Hey, MrH, what's the most successful business you've ever started and run? Or are you saying that Tesla doesn't actually build and sell cars, and SpaceX doesn't actually build and operate rockets? Fraud? I don't think you know what that word (or many others) means.
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Offline 12,000 RPM

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2021, 06:26:39 am »
If starting and running a successful business is a prereq for discussing Elon Musk, what are your qualifications?

Or do you only need to be an expert to criticize him? His fans can be as clueless and ignorant as tree moss? I think that's what's called a "double standard"
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Offline r0tor

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2021, 06:42:45 am »
Oh... You guys missed MrH shorting Tesla stock right before it's stock increasing a few hundred percent
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Offline GoCougs

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2021, 07:01:17 am »
Also not a fan of SpaceX, or the space programs in general (though I have to admit the history and intrigue of the history, esp. dating back to Operation Paperclip, is fascinating). Most of what the space program does is put shit in/near space in order to kill and spy on people, support useless stuff like the ISS, or the worst of the worst, send stuff and people to Mars. My prediction is the "reusable" (read: rebuild-able) stuff will go down about like the Space Shuttle (i.e., underperforms, too costly and too deadly). Nothing to see here that wasn't figured out 50+ years ago.

Offline GoCougs

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2021, 07:05:10 am »
Oh... You guys missed MrH shorting Tesla stock right before it's stock increasing a few hundred percent

Now down ~30% and sliding...

Offline r0tor

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2021, 07:11:27 am »
Now down ~30% and sliding...

He already lost his ass... and its still up 200% from a year ago
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 07:13:26 am by r0tor »
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Offline GoCougs

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2021, 07:15:46 am »
He already lost his ass... and its still up 200% from a year ago

Why do you care so much about someone else's finances, esp. if things went poorly?

Offline MrH

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2021, 07:17:46 am »
MrH doesn't know what he's talking about as usual.

Hey, MrH, what's the most successful business you've ever started and run? Or are you saying that Tesla doesn't actually build and sell cars, and SpaceX doesn't actually build and operate rockets? Fraud? I don't think you know what that word (or many others) means.

:facepalm:  If starting a fraudulent business is the qualification to critique other fraudulent businesses, then sure, I'm not qualified to say anything.

If starting and running a successful business is a prereq for discussing Elon Musk, what are your qualifications?

Or do you only need to be an expert to criticize him? His fans can be as clueless and ignorant as tree moss? I think that's what's called a "double standard"

Well, this was unexpected.



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Offline MrH

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2021, 07:18:26 am »
He already lost his ass... and its still up 200% from a year ago

Yes.  Lost my ass.  Totally in the poor house now.  Next thing you know, I'll be hittin up my 401k to buy a car :lol:
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Offline Submariner

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2021, 07:25:56 am »
:facepalm:  If starting a fraudulent business is the qualification to critique other fraudulent businesses, then sure, I'm not qualified to say anything.

Well, this was unexpected.





What is fraudulent about a business that produces successful products that have been on sale for a decade + (space X) or almost a decade (Tesla)?

Offline MrH

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2021, 07:27:32 am »
Your measure of fraudulent behavior is whether the business exists for a decade?
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Offline r0tor

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Re: When will EVs be Ready for You?
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2021, 07:41:39 am »
Why do you care so much about someone else's finances, esp. if things went poorly?

Explains his attitude about Tesla perhaps??
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