The Dogs of Lordstown

Started by Payman, June 14, 2021, 11:26:37 AM


FoMoJo

They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.

I really don't understand all these EV pickup startups.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Laconian

Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.

I really don't understand all these EV pickup startups.

They get $
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Submariner

Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.

I really don't understand all these EV pickup startups.

EV is a hot commodity, and EV trucks are going to be a necessity in the "economy of the future".

2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

FoMoJo

Quote from: Submariner on June 14, 2021, 04:33:13 PM
EV is a hot commodity, and EV trucks are going to be a necessity in the "economy of the future".
Seems to me like the dot com market, all the little guys trying to come up with something that the big guys buy into...only on a less frenetic scale.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

GoCougs

Not a surprise at all - they'll ALL fail if left to their own (retail) devices. The closest they're gonna get at viability is as a sole source provider (i.e., Amazon funding Rivian, USPS funding Oshkosh, etc.).

MrH

Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 12:47:36 PM
They need Elon to step in and show them how to do it.


No, that's the exact problem.  Elon inspired all sorts of EV fraud (Lordstown, Nikola, Workforce, etc).  When the regulators don't do their job, this is the end result.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

GoCougs

Quote from: MrH on June 15, 2021, 07:22:24 AM
No, that's the exact problem.  Elon inspired all sorts of EV fraud (Lordstown, Nikola, Workforce, etc).  When the regulators don't do their job, this is the end result.

That's definitely part of it, but there's also a whole lot of pan and general irrational exuberance desperate for The Next Big Thing.

Laconian

Quote from: GoCougs on June 15, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
That's definitely part of it, but there's also a whole lot of pan and general irrational exuberance desperate for The Next Big Thing.

Way too much dumb money sloshing around in the market.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Payman

Quote from: Laconian on June 15, 2021, 11:38:16 AM
Way too much dumb money sloshing around in the market.

The Juicero crowd is rotten with cash.

Payman

Checked in on the Elio Owners Group. Oh my, what a sad and lonely place.  :lol:

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: FoMoJo on June 14, 2021, 04:44:37 PM
Seems to me like the dot com market, all the little guys trying to come up with something that the big guys buy into...only on a less frenetic scale.


Quote from: GoCougs on June 15, 2021, 10:48:16 AM
That's definitely part of it, but there's also a whole lot of pan and general irrational exuberance desperate for The Next Big Thing.

Yup.

Buzzword of two years ago was "blockchain".
Will

Submariner

Quote from: Rockraven on June 15, 2021, 05:19:16 PM
Checked in on the Elio Owners Group. Oh my, what a sad and lonely place.  :lol:

Wasn't there a former 'Spinner who worked/used to work there?
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

Laconian

Quote from: Submariner on June 16, 2021, 10:23:40 PM
Wasn't there a former 'Spinner who worked/used to work there?

Teuton used to do PR at Faraday Future, which was a hilarious EV horrorshow.
Then he moved to Mazda.
Now he works at Audi.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Payman

Quote from: Laconian on June 16, 2021, 11:43:22 PM
Teuton used to do PR at Faraday Future, which was a hilarious EV horrorshow.
Then he moved to Mazda.
Now he works at Audi.

I thought Faraday was after Mazda?

AutobahnSHO

Lol I forgot about Faraday
Will


Morris Minor

It's a mini dot-com boom/bust, like 1999: lots of silly money chasing no-hopers. Like 1999, the underlying tech will eventually take off, but capital will flow to just a small handful of big players who will have gobbled that tiny number of startups with ideas/innovations that have actual worth, leaving the trash to face prosecutors, lawsuits & bankruptcy.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

r0tor

Quote from: Rockraven on June 15, 2021, 05:19:16 PM
Checked in on the Elio Owners Group. Oh my, what a sad and lonely place.  :lol:

Ugh... I had a coworker that drank that koolaid and had a deposit.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

Quote from: Morris Minor on June 24, 2021, 06:34:31 AM
It's a mini dot-com boom/bust, like 1999: lots of silly money chasing no-hopers. Like 1999, the underlying tech will eventually take off, but capital will flow to just a small handful of big players who will have gobbled that tiny number of startups with ideas/innovations that have actual worth, leaving the trash to face prosecutors, lawsuits & bankruptcy.

It's actually more like the auto industry 100 years ago with tons of small startups tinkering with the new technology.  Which is fitting since an EV is pretty much a different ball game as several established auto makers have finally figured out.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

GoCougs

Quote from: r0tor on June 25, 2021, 08:02:48 AM
It's actually more like the auto industry 100 years ago with tons of small startups tinkering with the new technology.  Which is fitting since an EV is pretty much a different ball game as several established auto makers have finally figured out.

No, not really. EVs have been in widespread industrial use for decades. There ain't any new tech new under the sun. What's new actually is the shocking levels of exuberance and government force in trying to invent a business out of EVs.

r0tor

Yes, we have had powerwheels and electric golf carts for decades... No, we have not had cars with ranged of 300 miles, fantastic performance, and relative affordability until a few years ago.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

CaminoRacer

EVs are a thing now and are much more popular (more market share + public knowledge/awareness) than ever before, I don't know how you can still be an EV denier.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

GoCougs

Quote from: r0tor on June 28, 2021, 07:31:36 AM
Yes, we have had powerwheels and electric golf carts for decades... No, we have not had cars with ranged of 300 miles, fantastic performance, and relative affordability until a few years ago.

Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 28, 2021, 09:40:28 AM
EVs are a thing now and are much more popular (more market share + public knowledge/awareness) than ever before, I don't know how you can still be an EV denier.

Not quite. It's all about facts, data and logic.

Telsa's been pumping out its Model S wares for 9 years now, and here we are, little closer to parity with ICE, including making a business case out of it.

r0tor

The Mustang Mach E is outselling the Mustang.  The model 3 is the best selling sports sedan.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

GoCougs

Quote from: r0tor on June 28, 2021, 06:58:55 PM
The Mustang Mach E is outselling the Mustang.  The model 3 is the best selling sports sedan.

Great, but revenue alone does not a business make hence the money-losing proposition of Tesla, Bolt, and any other EV ever sold (but I repeat myself).

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: GoCougs on June 28, 2021, 08:31:23 PM
Great, but revenue alone does not a business make hence the money-losing proposition of Tesla, Bolt, and any other EV ever sold (but I repeat myself).

There are plenty of HYUGE businesses which do not make money. Our entire farming industry would fall apart without subsidies.
Will

r0tor

Oil industry would have ended decades ago
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

AutobahnSHO

Will