Not a romantic purchase - just time for a new F-150 in the company fleet. This will join an '04 F-150, 2 '04 E-150's, 1 '03 E-150, and 1 '01 E-150. I bought the '04 for about $29k 2 years ago, but it stickered at $ 31,775. We're talking about 4.6L V8 engine, 8' bed, 4x4, power windows and locks. Nothing fancy. This year, we have an '06 F-150, basically same spec but with 5.4 L V8, but sticker is $35,000! What the hell is going on with pickup trucks????
I had a dealer trying to sell me an 06 XL with a V6 and crank windows and manual locks for $31,800. WTF?? $32k for a truck, and you have to do the Fred Flintstone crank up the window? What's next, manual starter crank sticking out the grille?? I guess it's a sign of the times - all the options and crap we "expect" in a car gets translated to a truck, and the price rises accordingly. I bought a Ford because that's all I've bought in the last 10+ yrs. The dealer gets me a decent price, runs the plates, drops the truck off, etc. I never have to leave my desk.
I should have pics tomorrow, but it should be a twin of the '04. These trucks are reliable and don't owe me a thing. It's not unusual for me to trade a 5 yr old truck with 130k mile and little or no repair issues. "Cost of Doing Business" keeps ringing in my head! It still hurts though..... :blink:
OMG Ford dropped the ball big time.
FWIW, we're down to a little over $28k for the beast. That's almost 20% under MSRP - a victory in my book! :rockon:
QuoteFWIW, we're down to a little over $28k for the beast. That's almost 20% under MSRP - a victory in my book! :rockon:
Get a Tundra.
Why would he want to do that? They aren't much cheaper and the size of their beds would probably really limit him.
QuoteWhy would he want to do that? They aren't much cheaper and the size of their beds would probably really limit him.
They aren't? For some reason i thought they start in the 20s
THe F150's start in the teens. That's for 2 wd, short bed, V6 etc. For a usable truck, you're talking $30k sticker, or more. A non-"supercab" truck to me is nuts. Basic for any pickup is extended cab, 4 wd, V8. Any one of those 3 missing, and the truck is marginalized or downright useless.
QuoteTHe F150's start in the teens. That's for 2 wd, short bed, V6 etc. For a usable truck, you're talking $30k sticker, or more. A non-"supercab" truck to me is nuts. Basic for any pickup is extended cab, 4 wd, V8. Any one of those 3 missing, and the truck is marginalized or downright useless.
Why 4wd?
QuoteQuoteTHe F150's start in the teens. That's for 2 wd, short bed, V6 etc. For a usable truck, you're talking $30k sticker, or more. A non-"supercab" truck to me is nuts. Basic for any pickup is extended cab, 4 wd, V8. Any one of those 3 missing, and the truck is marginalized or downright useless.
Why 4wd?
I'm in the snow belt. A 2 wd pickup truck in the snow is as useless as boobies on a bull.
He's a contractor, and he's in New England...
Sax- you get all your vehicles the same color?
QuoteQuoteQuoteTHe F150's start in the teens.? That's for 2 wd, short bed, V6 etc.? For a usable truck, you're talking $30k sticker, or more.? A non-"supercab" truck to me is nuts.? Basic for any pickup is extended cab, 4 wd, V8.? Any one of those 3 missing, and the truck is marginalized or downright useless.
Why 4wd?
I'm in the snow belt. A 2 wd pickup truck in the snow is as useless as boobies on a bull.
Oh, ok. I didn't know that.
QuoteHe's a contractor, and he's in New England...
Sax- you get all your vehicles the same color?
Vans are white, pickups are "true blue". Errrr....the A6 is black. They look good when parked in formation! B)
QuoteQuoteQuoteTHe F150's start in the teens.? That's for 2 wd, short bed, V6 etc.? For a usable truck, you're talking $30k sticker, or more.? A non-"supercab" truck to me is nuts.? Basic for any pickup is extended cab, 4 wd, V8.? Any one of those 3 missing, and the truck is marginalized or downright useless.
Why 4wd?
I'm in the snow belt. A 2 wd pickup truck in the snow is as useless as boobies on a bull.
WRONG!
My dad drove his '98 Dakota 4x2 through a Michigan winter just fine thanks to some common sense and some weight in the bed. And the tires are really bad!
Before that, he drove my '86 Ranger 4x2 through nearly 20 winters. He's never been in the ditch, never smashed it up. I drove it last winter and I did fine as well.
Don't say it can't be done, because it can, with some weight.
And complaining about cranking up your window... :rolleyes: I prefer crank windows because you can open and close them without the key and they're less complex (one less thing to break).
2WD is alright.
4WD is better. Why make a sacrifice?
Plus, if your bed is weighted down with ballast for traction, where is anything else going to go. He's getting the 8' bed to fit 8' worth of stuff.
QuoteWRONG!
My dad drove his '98 Dakota 4x2 through a Michigan winter just fine thanks to some common sense and some weight in the bed. And the tires are really bad!
Before that, he drove my '86 Ranger 4x2 through nearly 20 winters. He's never been in the ditch, never smashed it up. I drove it last winter and I did fine as well.
Don't say it can't be done, because it can, with some weight.
And complaining about cranking up your window... :rolleyes: I prefer crank windows because you can open and close them without the key and they're less complex (one less thing to break).
First of all, I'm buying these for employees, so I need them to be capable as is. I drove a 2wd pickup for an employer years ago (Chevy S-10) and was amazed how useless and unstable it was on snow and ice. Sure, ballasting the bed is helpful, but it's a flea peeing into a volcano when you compare it to the capability of 4wd. My guys need to get to job sites every day, so we drive in crappy weather (unless its extremely nutty). I don't know of anyone in this area who drives a 2 wd Pickup. Its like showing up at a Harley bar on a Honda Scooter! (No offense to your dad - I admire his driving skills. All I'm saying is I get enough thrills in life without adding some needless ones.)
Regarding electric windows, my point was for $30K, you'd think they could kick in a couple electric windows. My E-150's are all manual cranks, but cost $22k or so. Never had an elec window break down on me - almost 20 yrs of owning many electric window cars. Not a high maintenance item!
Power windows in a work truck? So much for keeping cost down. Then you have the cloth and carpets that get dirty. Why not the "XL" work truck for much less money?
QuotePower windows in a work truck? So much for keeping cost down. Then you have the cloth and carpets that get dirty. Why not the "XL" work truck for much less money?
The dealer with the XL wouldn't go lower than $31,800 (before rebates, etc.) I scored the XLT for $31,900. Unfortunately, inventories are apparently low - at least for "True Blue" trucks - I need to keep the colors consistent from a fleet perspective. All 3 dealers I was working with ended up vying for the same 2 trucks - one in NJ, one in NH. Not much of a selection - so my decision was an easy one.
QuoteQuotePower windows in a work truck?? So much for keeping cost down.? Then you have the cloth and carpets that get dirty.? Why not the "XL" work truck for much less money?
The dealer with the XL wouldn't go lower than $31,800 (before rebates, etc.) I scored the XLT for $31,900. Unfortunately, inventories are apparently low - at least for "True Blue" trucks - I need to keep the colors consistent from a fleet perspective. All 3 dealers I was working with ended up vying for the same 2 trucks - one in NJ, one in NH. Not much of a selection - so my decision was an easy one.
I'm not trying to confront your business choices, but why do they all have to be blue? Most XLs I see around are white and I'll bet more of those were in stock.
QuoteQuoteWRONG!
My dad drove his '98 Dakota 4x2 through a Michigan winter just fine thanks to some common sense and some weight in the bed. And the tires are really bad!
Before that, he drove my '86 Ranger 4x2 through nearly 20 winters. He's never been in the ditch, never smashed it up. I drove it last winter and I did fine as well.
Don't say it can't be done, because it can, with some weight.
And complaining about cranking up your window... :rolleyes: I prefer crank windows because you can open and close them without the key and they're less complex (one less thing to break).
First of all, I'm buying these for employees, so I need them to be capable as is. I drove a 2wd pickup for an employer years ago (Chevy S-10) and was amazed how useless and unstable it was on snow and ice. Sure, ballasting the bed is helpful, but it's a flea peeing into a volcano when you compare it to the capability of 4wd. My guys need to get to job sites every day, so we drive in crappy weather (unless its extremely nutty). I don't know of anyone in this area who drives a 2 wd Pickup. Its like showing up at a Harley bar on a Honda Scooter! (No offense to your dad - I admire his driving skills. All I'm saying is I get enough thrills in life without adding some needless ones.)
Regarding electric windows, my point was for $30K, you'd think they could kick in a couple electric windows. My E-150's are all manual cranks, but cost $22k or so. Never had an elec window break down on me - almost 20 yrs of owning many electric window cars. Not a high maintenance item!
Yeah, I was going to add something about comercial use, but I guess I forgot.
My point was that, your average Joe can use a 2WD pickup in the snow. It's really not that hard to drive in the snow with a 2WD.
Even in a Michigan winter, I've never felt limited by 2WD and I don't feel that 4WD is a big advantage. A dumbass will still end up in the ditch regardless of power to the front wheels.
I agree with you on the cost thing. 30-40k is way too expensive for a pickup truck! Unless it's one of those luxury models or a heavy duty with all the frills.
HD trucks top $50k these days :o :blink:
I remember when pickups were the best valuse going. Those days are over. I agree wholeheartedly with the selection of 4wd. 4wd will pay for itself in productivity at the worksite. You can't work if you can't get to the site. As for color selection, I stongly believe in vehicle uniformity.
(http://www.billericapolice.org/photos/vehicles/images/002.jpg)
We have a new supervisor car coming so I'll do a thread on it when it arrives in a couple weeks. ;)
Salty Dog - believe it or not, supply and demand worked in reverse here. Everyone wants white trucks - that's why there were only 2 blue ones that met my needs. After seeing all the trouble we were going thru, I told the salesguy, "OK, obviously the blue is an issue. Get me your best price on a white truck." He quoted me $1,000 more for exactly that reason - more people want the white, so they charge accordingly - high demand = higher price. You can't win.
I guess there's a reason every cruiser in town has the same paint, Catman! There's an identity. The extra trouble or money it takes to get the right color for the "fleet" pays for itself in corporate identity, employee team building/morale, and it just makes me feel good. You'd be surprised at how the guys think. "Oh, Ron got me a white truck, just like the crews' vans. I thought I was management, but I guess not! :angry: " Sometimes it's like working with small children, but it's reality. :rolleyes:
I only want to add one thing.
If you get cloth seats, scotch-guard them immediately. Every customer I have with cloth seats in their F150 complains that even water stains them. I had one customer trade his 05 (with 11,000 miles) in because he couldn't get the cloth seats clean. He traded it in for the exact same truck, but with leather.
I don't know who Ford used for their supplier of seat covers, but the cloth material sucks.
QuoteSalty Dog - believe it or not, supply and demand worked in reverse here. Everyone wants white trucks - that's why there were only 2 blue ones that met my needs. After seeing all the trouble we were going thru, I told the salesguy, "OK, obviously the blue is an issue. Get me your best price on a white truck." He quoted me $1,000 more for exactly that reason - more people want the white, so they charge accordingly - high demand = higher price. You can't win.
Never would have guessed! Well here's to many reliable miles on your new truck :rockon:
QuoteQuoteSalty Dog - believe it or not, supply and demand worked in reverse here. Everyone wants white trucks - that's why there were only 2 blue ones that met my needs. After seeing all the trouble we were going thru, I told the salesguy, "OK, obviously the blue is an issue. Get me your best price on a white truck." He quoted me $1,000 more for exactly that reason - more people want the white, so they charge accordingly - high demand = higher price. You can't win.
Never would have guessed! Well here's to many reliable miles on your new truck :rockon:
Thanks! It'll be delivered on Monday - I'll get some pics and more details then. It's funny negotiating for and buying a truck without ever leaving my desk! As I said, fleet sales are not too emotional. The dealer will run the DMV for plates, and drive it right into my parking lot. All I need is for me to drive by the dealer once and sign the papers.
And JWC, thanks for the heads up on the cloth. Scotchguard will go on!
QuoteQuoteQuoteSalty Dog - believe it or not, supply and demand worked in reverse here. Everyone wants white trucks - that's why there were only 2 blue ones that met my needs. After seeing all the trouble we were going thru, I told the salesguy, "OK, obviously the blue is an issue. Get me your best price on a white truck." He quoted me $1,000 more for exactly that reason - more people want the white, so they charge accordingly - high demand = higher price. You can't win.
Never would have guessed! Well here's to many reliable miles on your new truck :rockon:
Thanks! It'll be delivered on Monday - I'll get some pics and more details then. It's funny negotiating for and buying a truck without ever leaving my desk! As I said, fleet sales are not too emotional. The dealer will run the DMV for plates, and drive it right into my parking lot. All I need is for me to drive by the dealer once and sign the papers.
And JWC, thanks for the heads up on the cloth. Scotchguard will go on!
Ok two things.
If this is a base model truck, watch the front tire wear very closely. I'm having a horrible problem with front tires eating away in the inside and/or outside edge of the base model truck with Hancock tires. There is a TSB for 2004 models that says to replace the upper control arms for this problem, but 2005 were having the same problem. Ford says only 2004 need the upper control arms be replaced. Hopefully, the 2006 F150 has been corrected, but keep an eye on them just in case. The problem occurs within 9,000 miles..with the edge of the front tires completely gone in that period.
Isn't that only one thing? :lol:
QuoteIsn't that only one thing? :lol:
The 1st thing was the cloth seats. :P
JWC, I'll keep an eye out for the front end. Our '04 has been fine so far - with 50K miles.
You might want to order a healthy supply of ball joints, tie rods, and power steering parts, but I'm sure you know all about that :D But seriously, you can't beat F150s for work trucks imo. When I did landscaping last summer my boss had the '82 F-250 he bought back when he started the business. He said he couldn't remember how many times the odometer turned over and it was still on the original 4.9L straight-six. That thing was fun to drive and ran great.
Seems like an XL and a half-decent blue paint job would have come in cheaper than the XLT, but what do I know.
How much of the F-150's capactiy do you use? When a redesigned Ranger comes out, will you be albe to switch to those? Seems to be the trucks have been getting bigger and bigger, have your payloads?
The crews basically do remodelling so it's a lot of carpentry. The trucks are typically loaded with windows, tools, lumber etc. We use every inch of them. Had a 99 Ranger - we kept it for 5 yrs, worked around the payload issues. Ran well over 150k miles with very little trouble. Once we went to the F150 in '04, we realized how inadequate the Ranger was size-wise. A fine truck, just too small for our needs.
Tom, the front ends on the E-150 vans suck (although they are getting better - no trouble on the newer ones yet.). The F150 and Ranger had very little problems - I'd say much less than average. My A6 on the other hand....let's just say the front ends have too many moving parts. ;)
QuoteYou might want to order a healthy supply of ball joints, tie rods, and power steering parts, but I'm sure you know all about that :D But seriously, you can't beat F150s for work trucks imo. When I did landscaping last summer my boss had the '82 F-250 he bought back when he started the business. He said he couldn't remember how many times the odometer turned over and it was still on the original 4.9L straight-six. That thing was fun to drive and ran great.
It seems that most straight sixes are that way. It must be because a straight six has better balance.
That's why I love inline sixes! :rockon:
QuoteTom, the front ends on the E-150 vans suck (although they are getting better - no trouble on the newer ones yet.). The F150 and Ranger had very little problems - I'd say much less than average.
We've never had any front end problems either.
My Ranger is so reliable that I forget it's a truck. I think of it more of an appliance! :lol:
QuoteQuoteYou might want to order a healthy supply of ball joints, tie rods, and power steering parts, but I'm sure you know all about that :D But seriously, you can't beat F150s for work trucks imo. When I did landscaping last summer my boss had the '82 F-250 he bought back when he started the business. He said he couldn't remember how many times the odometer turned over and it was still on the original 4.9L straight-six. That thing was fun to drive and ran great.
It seems that most straight sixes are that way. It must be because a straight six has better balance.
That's why I love inline sixes! :rockon:
I still have a pic of one of my first "fleet" vans - an 87 E-250 with the 4.9 straight six. I loved that van - bought it at auction from a local plumber in 91 - she ran virtually trouble free for about 10 yrs, till she finally passed on (at which time we bought an '01 E-150. I think it had 180Kmiles. A truly remarkable truck! The engine was absolutely bullet proof!
You're a contractor? One of the kind that does half the job, gets paid, and then leaves?
I hate contractors. I had half a kitchen in one of PA's coldest winters because of a contractor that ripped out a wall and never finished the job.
QuoteYou're a contractor? One of the kind that does half the job, gets paid, and then leaves?
I hate contractors. I had half a kitchen in one of PA's coldest winters because of a contractor that ripped out a wall and never finished the job.
rokon.gif I sense that you have some issues here! :blink:
No - I'm the kind who's been in business for 15 yrs, never re-incorporated, never been sued, highest reputation in the industry, no advertising - repeats and referrals only, 20 employees (who are actual W-2 career path types, not illegal aliens, cash under the table BS. We pay 50% Blue Cross, 3 wks vacation, holidays, etc.). We work for Boston area colleges and private schools, high end mansions, big low-end apartments, etc. Yes, we start a job, we finish - and usually on time. We put $100/day penalty into our own contracts so the client is protected. Every contract should have that clause in it.
Buyer beware - most people don't pursue due diligence and actually investigate who it is who will be tearing their house apart. They've got to call references, visit job sites, etc. The vast majority of contractors are scumbags and have to re-incorporate every year or so (or never incorporate and run semi-legal. I got into this business coming from a white collar engineering background. My dad and I started this under the banner that "the one eyed man in the land of the blind would be king!" That's proven true!
I feel your pain, but don't curse an entire industry just because of a bad experience. Unfortunately, scumbag contractors manage to survive because they can get away with it. Your folks should have sued his ass off.
Alright, I like you again.
QuoteAlright, I like you again.
Thanks! I'm really a likable guy - just ask my wife. On 2nd thought, don't ask my wife....
Hey, if all contractors were scumbags, how do you think anything gets built or remodelled?
Someone must be doing all that work! B)
QuoteQuoteYou're a contractor? One of the kind that does half the job, gets paid, and then leaves?
I hate contractors. I had half a kitchen in one of PA's coldest winters because of a contractor that ripped out a wall and never finished the job.
rokon.gif I sense that you have some issues here! :blink:
No - I'm the kind who's been in business for 15 yrs, never re-incorporated, never been sued, highest reputation in the industry, no advertising - repeats and referrals only, 20 employees (who are actual W-2 career path types, not illegal aliens, cash under the table BS. We pay 50% Blue Cross, 3 wks vacation, holidays, etc.). We work for Boston area colleges and private schools, high end mansions, big low-end apartments, etc. Yes, we start a job, we finish - and usually on time. We put $100/day penalty into our own contracts so the client is protected. Every contract should have that clause in it.
Buyer beware - most people don't pursue due diligence and actually investigate who it is who will be tearing their house apart. They've got to call references, visit job sites, etc. The vast majority of contractors are scumbags and have to re-incorporate every year or so (or never incorporate and run semi-legal. I got into this business coming from a white collar engineering background. My dad and I started this under the banner that "the one eyed man in the land of the blind would be king!" That's proven true!
I feel your pain, but don't curse an entire industry just because of a bad experience. Unfortunately, scumbag contractors manage to survive because they can get away with it. Your folks should have sued his ass off.
You build stuff for prep schools at all? Like dorms and student centres and the like? If so i've probably been to some of your work, haha.
Quote
You build stuff for prep schools at all? Like dorms and student centres and the like? If so i've probably been to some of your work, haha.
We actually don't build new stuff - we do basically glorified remodelling. Primarily environmental work - lead paint and mold issues. Strip out the old contaminated stuff, then put it all back together. Our specialty is antique buildings (colonials, victorians, etc.) so we get to do some pretty cool stuff. We have a wood milling shop to replicate old moulding profiles, restore antique windows, do some intricate detail paint stripping (mantels, stairways, etc.) I love working for the prep schools - they've got some nice taste in architecture, and they typically have a big enough wallet to do it right.
QuoteQuote
You build stuff for prep schools at all?? Like dorms and student centres and the like?? If so i've probably been to some of your work, haha.
We actually don't build new stuff - we do basically glorified remodelling. Primarily environmental work - lead paint and mold issues. Strip out the old contaminated stuff, then put it all back together. Our specialty is antique buildings (colonials, victorians, etc.) so we get to do some pretty cool stuff. We have a wood milling shop to replicate old moulding profiles, restore antique windows, do some intricate detail paint stripping (mantels, stairways, etc.) I love working for the prep schools - they've got some nice taste in architecture, and they typically have a big enough wallet to do it right.
Definitely. Some of those schools have endowments bigger than most colleges...
QuoteQuoteAlright, I like you again.
Thanks! I'm really a likable guy - just ask my wife. On 2nd thought, don't ask my wife....
Hey, if all contractors were scumbags, how do you think anything gets built or remodelled? Someone must be doing all that work! B)
Well, if your wife isn't too keen on you, then you're
definitely a good guy. I've never met a good guy whose wife is keen on him.
:P B)
QuoteQuoteQuoteAlright, I like you again.
Thanks! I'm really a likable guy - just ask my wife. On 2nd thought, don't ask my wife....
Hey, if all contractors were scumbags, how do you think anything gets built or remodelled? Someone must be doing all that work! B)
Well, if your wife isn't too keen on you, then you're definitely a good guy. I've never met a good guy whose wife is keen on him.
:P B)
Hey, after 14 yrs, we still get along great. That isn't to say that I don't substantially piss her off on a fairly regular basis - but it's usually because I'm working too much - she never gives me a hard time when I go out with the guys. Show me a couple that never has a disagreement and I'll show you a P-whipped man!
(J86 - those schools should have big endowments - at $30k + a year in tuition.... :blink: )
I know you have a relationship with the Nashua Ford dealer, but I'd recommend checking out Autofair (http://www.autofair.com) and Portsmouth Ford (http://www.portford.com)
I get the Portsmouth flyer in the paper each week, and they have some incredible prices. Both dealers are no-haggle.
With Autofair, you can check and see prices of all their inventory online. Portford has a pretty crummy web site, but killer prices.
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(http://www.portford.com/Images/flyer_pages/P03.gif)
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You're right about that - I've bought a couple trucks for Portsmouth already. We actually use Gervais in Ayer, since my business manager knows the sales manager. I tried Drum Hill, Best in Nashua, and Gervais. The irony was the truck came from Portsmouth Ford. They usually beat the competitors by $500 or so, but the trouble is the distance. The 3 locals will run the plates, inspect and deliver the truck without me getting off my chair. To buy in Portsmouth takes 2 guys the better part of the day, which outweigh the savings.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAlright, I like you again.
Thanks! I'm really a likable guy - just ask my wife. On 2nd thought, don't ask my wife....
Hey, if all contractors were scumbags, how do you think anything gets built or remodelled? Someone must be doing all that work! B)
Well, if your wife isn't too keen on you, then you're definitely a good guy. I've never met a good guy whose wife is keen on him.
:P B)
Hey, after 14 yrs, we still get along great. That isn't to say that I don't substantially piss her off on a fairly regular basis - but it's usually because I'm working too much - she never gives me a hard time when I go out with the guys. Show me a couple that never has a disagreement and I'll show you a P-whipped man!
(J86 - those schools should have big endowments - at $30k + a year in tuition.... :blink: )
What's amazing is the operating costs are so high. Most of the endowment money is either really old or comes from special fundraising drives.
It's going to be cheaper having my brother in college than highschool!
I bet they are quite high. My uncle is a business manager for a large private school and their faculities look like crap (mostly anyway, they have gotten a lot better of late) yet he is still having trouble finding money to pay expenses. And, that is just a regular private school, the expenses of boarding schools must be much higher.