http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/19/harley-davidson-project-livewire-electric-motorcycle-vi/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/06/19/harley-davidson-project-livewire-electric-motorcycle-vi/)
Looks well done. We will see!
Thats pretty cool. Finally a Harley that won't sound like shit! (though some may argue an electric bike sounds like shit in its own way...) I think I see some Buell in it too.....
I'm sure it will still leak oil all over the place.
Is there a way we can make it vibrate?
I think they're barking up the wrong tree. Harley riders don't want technology, efficiency or smoothness.
I think they are looking for new customers not the filthy ones that already have.
I can feel the Harley love.....
Sickkkkkk. I'd buy one. Except for the price will probably be crazy.
I just dont see the point of electric bikes
I mean I see the point. But Id rather not ride, than not have the brum brum. Tooling around town, or up in the twisties, that's like 50% of the enjoyment for me.
Are they going to dub the BWUBWUBWUBBWAAAA shit sounds so Harley buyers will spend money on it?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 20, 2014, 09:42:03 AM
I just dont see the point of electric bikes
I mean I see the point. But Id rather not ride, than not have the brum brum. Tooling around town, or up in the twisties, that's like 50% of the enjoyment for me.
I think electric makes some sense for truly utilitarian, urban commuter bikes (though I'd argue many urban commuters opt for scooters instead of actual motorcycles). But for leisure riders, they don't make a lot of sense. For riders like me, they don't have the range. My average ride length so far this season has been over 150 miles, with several ~250 mile rides, of mostly highway riding. No current electric can do between charges. Those Zero brand electric bikes have the longest range of anything I've seen, and their combined city/highway range is only 116 miles.
And that ignores the fact that the sound a bike makes is indeed a huge part of the experience. 90% of Harley riders I see sit at stoplights revving their engines to give everybody an earful of V-twin rumble. So many motorcyclists in America live by the "loud pipes save lives" mantra (and there is something to be said about being both heard and seen, since bikes are harder to spot on the road), and these things are going to be bicycle quiet.
I really think that the appeal, at least in America, is going to be very limited. In parts of the world where bikes are a primary means of transportation because many cannot afford cars, like in East Asia, there is potentially a huge market provided the electrical infrastructure is there to support charging these things over night.
Quote from: Raza on June 20, 2014, 10:03:31 AM
Are they going to dub the BWUBWUBWUBBWAAAA shit sounds so Harley buyers will spend money on it?
Just think of the lost revenue for loud aftermarket pipes Maybe they can sell loudspeakers that mimic engine sounds. And install some upsized shaker motors into it so that it vibrates, like a larger version of what they put in video game controllers.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 19, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
Is there a way we can make it vibrate?
I think they're barking up the wrong tree. Harley riders don't want technology, efficiency or smoothness.
I'm sure the shaft for the electric motor will be made to harley's usual high standards. Meaning it will probably be poorly balance, should give off some heavy vibration once the motor starts spinning.
The biggest problem I see is that one of the biggest aspects of riding a harley consists of sitting at a stoplight and bliping the throttle so others will look at you.
Will there be a way to disengage the transmission so they can wind the electric motor up and down at a stoplight?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on June 20, 2014, 12:39:13 PM
The biggest problem I see is that one of the biggest aspects of riding a harley consists of sitting at a stoplight and bliping the throttle so others will look at you.
Will there be a way to disengage the transmission so they can wind the electric motor up and down at a stoplight?
They will probably just put a button on the grip. WUBBA BUTTON
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BICYCLE-HANDLE-BAR-GRIP-N-GROWL-VROOM-NOISE-MAKER-FIT-SCHWINN-SEARS-MURRAY-/150943226160?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2324ead930 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/BICYCLE-HANDLE-BAR-GRIP-N-GROWL-VROOM-NOISE-MAKER-FIT-SCHWINN-SEARS-MURRAY-/150943226160?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2324ead930)
Does Harley Davidson have the same negative reputation in the general population as it does among sport bike enthusiasts? What about millenials?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 25, 2014, 10:57:35 PM
Does Harley Davidson have the same negative reputation in the general population as it does among sport bike enthusiasts? What about millenials?
I know a few young NYC dudes who are into old Harleys. I don't know that they'd be into this.
I do think this is a pretty shrewd move on Harley's part and will definitely open them up to a whole new market. I think a lot of folks are leery on the unknown electric bike brands.... FWIW Harley does have brand cachet and is an established marque, so an e bike from them would be taken more seriously.
I've seen a decent amount of young people who are into Harleys. The old school styling (think Iron 883) instead of the fat boy turds, thankfully. (I'm included in that group)
Has everyone seem the Harley South Park episode?
Quote from: Lebowski on July 02, 2014, 01:16:16 PM
Has everyone seem the Harley South Park episode?
I would assume so.
I just rode my Harley today. It was a pleasant experience, even after 5 years of ownership. The tree stump pulling low end torque that Harleys are famous for, plus the awe inspiring sound just makes the world an OK place to be.
But like they say, some people just don't get it. And never will, I suppose.
Have you ever ridden a Harley? There is a reason they own 51% of the American market.
Quote from: shp4man on July 06, 2014, 07:01:30 PM
I just rode my Harley today. It was a pleasant experience, even after 5 years of ownership. The tree stump pulling low end torque that Harleys are famous for, plus the awe inspiring sound just makes the world an OK place to be.
But like they say, some people just don't get it. And never will, I suppose.
Have you ever ridden a Harley? There is a reason they own 51% of the American market.
Image, purely image.
I was gonna say, image and old men, but they're really just there for the image.
Quote from: shp4man on July 06, 2014, 07:01:30 PM
I just rode my Harley today. It was a pleasant experience, even after 5 years of ownership. The tree stump pulling low end torque that Harleys are famous for, plus the awe inspiring sound just makes the world an OK place to be.
But like they say, some people just don't get it. And never will, I suppose.
Have you ever ridden a Harley? There is a reason they own 51% of the American market.
I've ridden a couple of Harleys and at least one Japanese competitor in the class. They, meaning cruisers in general, are not very good bikes, objectively speaking. They use primitive suspension designs and sub-par suspension components (often with zero adjustability, or just rear spring preload). Chassis/frame design is also very basic, nothing more exotic than steel tube. They're slow (with a few special exceptions, like the Vmax and V-Rod). They're heavy. They're generally more cumbersome handling at low speeds than other types of bikes and have the lowest cornering limits and sluggish handling responses. Their brakes are worse than most other bikes in terms of both stopping power and feel, not to mention hardware (no other segment uses single front disks on "full size" bikes as frequently). And outside of fully dressed touring models, they aren't even especially comfortable (no more so than a standard/UJM type of bike). Passenger/pillion accommodations aren't typically very good either, when they're there. Their low seat heights make them good for people of smaller statures vs other kinds of bikes, but that's about the only objective nod I can give them. I think most motorcycle manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank at the way Americans gobble these types of bikes up, because they surely can't cost as much to make or develop as more modern machines and yet they can command as much, or more, money. In all, the riding experience is not too different from riding a bike designed and built 30-40 years ago.
All that said, subjectively they're still fun to ride in their way. Those big twins make fun sounds. Other than the weight, they aren't intimidating to ride. You don't exactly have to worry about looping out because you grabbed too much throttle. The experience is sort of like the few times I've taken my brother's 1980 XS650 for a spin. Objectively it's a terrible bike, but every time I've ridden it, it put a big smile on my face. Beneath the flimsy chassis, spooky handling, non-existent brakes, and hand-numbing engine vibration, the bike has character. Would I want to log hundreds of miles on it? Hell no. But it's fun to bop around town on.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 07, 2014, 12:06:05 PM
Image, purely image.
Arguably, at least in this country, most motorcycles are bought for the image. Unless you think the oodles of squids on repli-racers bought them because they can truly appreciate and utilize the performance those bikes offer. Popping wheelies on main street and racing at 150 mph in a straight line down the interstate in the middle of the night doesn't really count.
Quote from: MX793 on July 12, 2014, 12:18:25 PM
Arguably, at least in this country, most motorcycles are bought for the image. Unless you think the oodles of squids on repli-racers bought them because they can truly appreciate and utilize the performance those bikes offer. Popping wheelies on main street and racing at 150 mph in a straight line down the interstate in the middle of the night doesn't really count.
Well sure, but the reason most people pay more money for an inferior bike is SOLELY for the image. What other reason would there be?
History and heritage.
Quote from: MX793 on July 12, 2014, 12:17:55 PM
I've ridden a couple of Harleys and at least one Japanese competitor in the class. They, meaning cruisers in general, are not very good bikes, objectively speaking. They use primitive suspension designs and sub-par suspension components (often with zero adjustability, or just rear spring preload). Chassis/frame design is also very basic, nothing more exotic than steel tube. They're slow (with a few special exceptions, like the Vmax and V-Rod). They're heavy. They're generally more cumbersome handling at low speeds than other types of bikes and have the lowest cornering limits and sluggish handling responses. Their brakes are worse than most other bikes in terms of both stopping power and feel, not to mention hardware (no other segment uses single front disks on "full size" bikes as frequently). And outside of fully dressed touring models, they aren't even especially comfortable (no more so than a standard/UJM type of bike). Passenger/pillion accommodations aren't typically very good either, when they're there. Their low seat heights make them good for people of smaller statures vs other kinds of bikes, but that's about the only objective nod I can give them. I think most motorcycle manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank at the way Americans gobble these types of bikes up, because they surely can't cost as much to make or develop as more modern machines and yet they can command as much, or more, money. In all, the riding experience is not too different from riding a bike designed and built 30-40 years ago.
All that said, subjectively they're still fun to ride in their way. Those big twins make fun sounds. Other than the weight, they aren't intimidating to ride. You don't exactly have to worry about looping out because you grabbed too much throttle. The experience is sort of like the few times I've taken my brother's 1980 XS650 for a spin. Objectively it's a terrible bike, but every time I've ridden it, it put a big smile on my face. Beneath the flimsy chassis, spooky handling, non-existent brakes, and hand-numbing engine vibration, the bike has character. Would I want to log hundreds of miles on it? Hell no. But it's fun to bop around town on.
Don't forget the single pin crankshaft, which is a terrible idea.
A lot of V2 motors use single pin cranks, including all 90-degree twins (I.e. all Ducatis).
but not 45°
One of the designers for this bike is gonna do a lecture in the engineering department on Wednesday. Too bad I have work at the same time. :(