Okay, as you know, today I scheduled two test drives; the MX-5 and Legacy Spec B. The Legacy Spec B had to be rescheduled, but I filled my time with something else. First, the MX-5:
It's called True Red. You wouldn't be wrong to call it true love instead. The MX-5 sits strongly on the tarmac--it no longer looks like hairdresser's car. In red, the car looks ferocious, but like real love, it is forbidden and heartbreaking, for I know that I won't have my license long with a car that vibrant.
Get into the MX-5 and you'll notice something different; you're actually in the car, not sitting on top of it. I've slammed the doors of the NB Miata in myself so often, that I contemplated sitting on the center console and then sliding back to my seat after closing the door. Not in this car, though. There's ample room. The steering wheel tilts, in an effort to get you into a better driving position. The interior of this car is now attractive and high quality--a distraction.
The engine doesn't come to life with a roar, no--it purrs like a satiated predatory cat. Get comfortable, and then get moving. Engaging reverse involves simply pushing down to enter the gear, but you need to give it a little gas to get the car on the move.
Roosevelt Boulevard was at its worst. The sun was still out somewhat, giving me that pleasure, but at 25F, I wasn't going to put the top down and expose my passenger to that kind of cold. However, traffic was absolute murder. Stop and go indeed, except with more stopping, and less going.
Finally, I pulled the car off of the Boulevard, and was able to get on the throttle. Familiarizing myself with the responses of the car, I floored it, shifted, and felt the clean, crisp 6 speed manual slide through its gears without hesitation or resistance. The clutch travel is short, the contact point is well defined. This is why you can sit in rush hour traffic and never stall, even though you don't have that much torque to work with. I felt like a professional, since I've had some problems before on the Roosevelt (I stalled the RX-8).
Shooting down the onramp, I didn't let up until redline in every gear. By the time there was highway under my tires, I was doing over 100mph. In a Miata! I thought these things were slow, but the 170bhp inline 4 proved ample in its power delivery, even allowing me to pass in fifth gear instead of downshifting to 4th, where I initially thought I needed to be. The handling is phenomenal, but you already knew that.
It's not a Lotus Elise. Let's get that out of the way. The Lotus is mind boggling, and the MX-5 is not. It's incredibly fun, though (if I use the Elise as the benchmark for every car, there will be no more fun cars), and it's such a surprising car. I never thought driving an MX-5 in such harsh traffic would be that easy, I never thought I could be that comfortable, I never thought I could fall so head over heels for something that used to universally called a girl's car.
This is a sports car. Testosterone or not, the driver should be ready for a sports car. This is possibly the quintessential roadster. Not as hardcore as the Elise, but easier to live with. This is a car you don't have to be insane to drive on an everyday basis (though it would help). There are rumors of fitting your golf clubs in the trunk, but I don't honestly believe them.
The model I drove is a 2006 Grand Touring model with the suspension package and premium package 2, so, oddly enough, it was more expensive than the RX-8 I drove recently, thanks to aggressive pricing on the RX-8. But I get why you love it so much, Greg, and you have my blessing if you decide to buy one.
This is what I'm saying. Everyone should trade their car in and get an MX-5. Beg, plead, tie your wife up for a short while (the authorities will sympathize, you'll probably only get 6 months probation), turn in your keys and wallet, whatever you do, buy this car.
Oh! It's got keyless entry and start, like the Mercedes Keyless Go system (not push button, you have to turn something) and it's totally cool!
*********************************************************************
I also drove a 2006 Pontiac GTO 6 speed. If there is anyone who thinks 50bhp doesn't make a difference, you're entirely wrong. 50bhp is what turned the GTO from a fast car into a monster.
When I got to the dealership, the salesman didn't mince words. He got me into the Impulse Blue GTO right away. I asked him if he wanted to drive it off the lot and he informed me that he wouldn't be accompanying me on this test drive, and that he'd be there until 9PM (I got there at 4:45PM).
When you start this beast, it fires a missile out of the exhaust, or at least it sounds like it does. The roar of the LS2 will frighten children, it will make women love you, it will make fathers lock up their daughters. This is before you even get on the gas.
You can drive the GTO like it's a docile plaything, and it won't let on that it's not happy. I took it to the mall and lumbered around, seeing what the 10-15mph manners were, and they were impeccable. It's so incredibly civilized that if you keep your revs down, you'd even fool your own mother into thinking it's a Grand Am coupe. But when you get your revs going, it's enough to kill elderly people standing near the car.
You can't floor it in first gear. Traction control will let you spin quite a bit, but you won't really get anywhere [DISCLAIMER: I left TCS on because there is still snow and ice on some roads, and I drove the car at night when I couldn't really see them]. But, get going, shift hard into second, and you'll feel the rear wheels become very happy. Here's a small comparison:
A Nissan 350Z, a fast car, will chirp its rear tires going into 3rd gear under full throttle.
A Pontiac GTO will wag its tail going into 3rd gear under full throttle. The rear end squirms and wants to break loose for a moment, then calms down and resumes forward thrust.
The handling of the GTO isn't at fault either. It's not Elise precise, but it is very good, much better than early skidpad numbers would lead you to believe.
While sitting on a hill, I felt it roll back a bit too much, got on the throttle a bit too much and let off the clutch a bit too fast, and spun the rear tires in place, and felt the back end move laterally. There is so much bloody power in this car.
I drove it in some snow, and it take some very careful footwork to get it through without incident. It's no rally car, but it will suffice.
When I got done with it, I sat in the interior for a moment, catching my breath and letting my heart slow down. I could really see myself in this car. I really, really could. Even in bumper to bumper traffic, the GTO wasn't hard to drive in any way. You'd have to try to stall it, with that much torque.
Oh, and one note: get driving shoes. It makes all the difference. I went from being okay at stick to being good at stick.
Tomorrow, I'm taking the GTO out again (this time Phantom Black) for a sunshine test drive, and on Friday I'm driving a C6 Corvette. But, honestly, I think I found my car.
Raza, you are a lucky bastard.
GTO it is?
QuoteGTO it is?
I think so. I really do.
QuoteWhen I got to the dealership, the salesman didn't mince words. He got me into the Impulse Blue GTO right away. I asked him if he wanted to drive it off the lot and he informed me that he wouldn't be accompanying me on this test drive, and that he'd be there until 9PM (I got there at 4:45PM).
I guess being filthy rich will do that for you. I thought the salesman at the local Honda dealer was about to shit himself when I asked to drive an auto Accord...and I was with my parents...and he was in the passenger seat. <_< :lol:
Sweet. Now, Raza, if you can prove you know what GTO stands for, I'll let you buy it. No google allowed. And yes, I already know the answer.
Nice. :rockon:
American Muscle :praise:
...in a Cavalier's skin. :P
Nice :rockon:
Just tell your parents your buying a Grand Am coupe, and they should have no problem letting you have this.
And btw, if your dad is still thinking about the Continental Flying Spur, he has my blessing. I saw one up close and personal yesterday, and its without a doubt, one of the best looking sedans I've ever seen.
QuoteQuoteWhen I got to the dealership, the salesman didn't mince words. He got me into the Impulse Blue GTO right away. I asked him if he wanted to drive it off the lot and he informed me that he wouldn't be accompanying me on this test drive, and that he'd be there until 9PM (I got there at 4:45PM).
I guess being filthy rich will do that for you. I thought the salesman at the local Honda dealer was about to shit himself when I asked to drive an auto Accord...and I was with my parents...and he was in the passenger seat. <_< :lol:
Sweet. Now, Raza, if you can prove you know what GTO stands for, I'll let you buy it. No google allowed. And yes, I already know the answer.
Gran Turismo Omologato
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhen I got to the dealership, the salesman didn't mince words. He got me into the Impulse Blue GTO right away. I asked him if he wanted to drive it off the lot and he informed me that he wouldn't be accompanying me on this test drive, and that he'd be there until 9PM (I got there at 4:45PM).
I guess being filthy rich will do that for you. I thought the salesman at the local Honda dealer was about to shit himself when I asked to drive an auto Accord...and I was with my parents...and he was in the passenger seat. <_< :lol:
Sweet. Now, Raza, if you can prove you know what GTO stands for, I'll let you buy it. No google allowed. And yes, I already know the answer.
Gran Turismo Omologato
Ok, have at it.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhen I got to the dealership, the salesman didn't mince words. He got me into the Impulse Blue GTO right away. I asked him if he wanted to drive it off the lot and he informed me that he wouldn't be accompanying me on this test drive, and that he'd be there until 9PM (I got there at 4:45PM).
I guess being filthy rich will do that for you. I thought the salesman at the local Honda dealer was about to shit himself when I asked to drive an auto Accord...and I was with my parents...and he was in the passenger seat. <_< :lol:
Sweet. Now, Raza, if you can prove you know what GTO stands for, I'll let you buy it. No google allowed. And yes, I already know the answer.
Gran Turismo Omologato
Ok, have at it.
Who doesn't know that, ass?
Tell me what it means in English, and I'll let you live.
:D
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhen I got to the dealership, the salesman didn't mince words. He got me into the Impulse Blue GTO right away. I asked him if he wanted to drive it off the lot and he informed me that he wouldn't be accompanying me on this test drive, and that he'd be there until 9PM (I got there at 4:45PM).
I guess being filthy rich will do that for you. I thought the salesman at the local Honda dealer was about to shit himself when I asked to drive an auto Accord...and I was with my parents...and he was in the passenger seat. <_< :lol:
Sweet. Now, Raza, if you can prove you know what GTO stands for, I'll let you buy it. No google allowed. And yes, I already know the answer.
Gran Turismo Omologato
Ok, have at it.
Who doesn't know that, ass?
Tell me what it means in English, and I'll let you live.
:D
I didn't know that. <_< Nor do I care all that much. ^_^
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhen I got to the dealership, the salesman didn't mince words. He got me into the Impulse Blue GTO right away. I asked him if he wanted to drive it off the lot and he informed me that he wouldn't be accompanying me on this test drive, and that he'd be there until 9PM (I got there at 4:45PM).
I guess being filthy rich will do that for you. I thought the salesman at the local Honda dealer was about to shit himself when I asked to drive an auto Accord...and I was with my parents...and he was in the passenger seat. <_< :lol:
Sweet. Now, Raza, if you can prove you know what GTO stands for, I'll let you buy it. No google allowed. And yes, I already know the answer.
Gran Turismo Omologato
Ok, have at it.
Who doesn't know that, ass?
Tell me what it means in English, and I'll let you live.
:D
hmmm, I may need to die then. omologato isn't in my Italian vocabulary. Translated separately as omolo and gato, it's basically homo-cat, :lol: but I'm sure that's not right. My best guess is worldwide.
Raza, have you asked the Phantom of his long-term impressions of the GTO? And dare I ask how much that thing will cost to insure?
Omologato means "homologated", which in racing terms means that the manufacturer must sell the car to the public in order for it to be eligible to compete.
so... Grand Touring class, Homogolated
Ah, you succumbed to the temptation of the LS2. That makes two of us this month. I agree with everything you said about it - I was also impressed with its manners in slow driving in bumper to bumper traffic, obviously when you open up the throttle it's equally impressive.
I like the GTO alot. I didn't test drive it when I was looking at cars, but obviously it's got a great engine and the interior is very good (probably about the best GM interior out there, IMO).
When you test drive the C6, make sure you have the top off for part of the test drive.
GTO's are the shit. Everyone overlooks that thing. Crazy.:blink:
Your take on the MX-5 backs up my own opinion that it's probably the most fun you'll ever have behind the wheel for that kind of money. It's just so much fun to drive. I want one but it'll be a while. :mellow:
I will definitely have to test drive a GTO before I buy my next car. Its sounds like an amazing car. Everyone that drives it seems to love it (except american car magazine journalists).
QuoteI will definitely have to test drive a GTO before I buy my next car. Its sounds like an amazing car. Everyone that drives it seems to love it (except american car magazine journalists).
So true man! <_<
QuoteI will definitely have to test drive a GTO before I buy my next car. Its sounds like an amazing car. Everyone that drives it seems to love it (except american car magazine journalists).
I don't think that is true, most of the reviews I have read have been very positive, the only complaints I have seen are about the lack of options and the shifter.
I'm definently am going to have to test drive a GTO before I get my next car. I stopped in at the Porsche dealership and looked at a Cayman S. I couldnt drive it or even sit in it. I wasnt even supposed to be able to see it until Jan. 14 which is the official release. But the salesman threw a few numbers out and it looks like it could possibly be on my list if I lease.
Fuckin rich kids ;) .
Man, they'd never even let me near that thing! So, uh, I live in Washington... Raza, feel like a road trip?
Lucky bastard indeed. :lol:
"Wimmer, what did you drive this Christmas!?"
"A 13-hp A-Class..." (http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/naughty.gif)
"Dude, that's like so underpow..." :lol:
QuoteAh, you succumbed to the temptation of the LS2. That makes two of us this month. I agree with everything you said about it - I was also impressed with its manners in slow driving in bumper to bumper traffic, obviously when you open up the throttle it's equally impressive.
I like the GTO alot. I didn't test drive it when I was looking at cars, but obviously it's got a great engine and the interior is very good (probably about the best GM interior out there, IMO).
When you test drive the C6, make sure you have the top off for part of the test drive.
We're getting snow tonight, so it may not be that easy. I'll try, though.
QuoteFuckin rich kids ;) .
Man, they'd never even let me near that thing! So, uh, I live in Washington... Raza, feel like a road trip?
DC? Or State?
QuoteQuoteI will definitely have to test drive a GTO before I buy my next car. Its sounds like an amazing car. Everyone that drives it seems to love it (except american car magazine journalists).
I don't think that is true, most of the reviews I have read have been very positive, the only complaints I have seen are about the lack of options and the shifter.
Yeah, the lack of options contributes to the "Is this a Mustang fighter or a 3 series fighter?" confusion. If they add options like satnav, satellite radio, and heated seats (sunroof would be nice) it would easily defined as the most powerful and fastest entry luxury car you could buy.
The shifter isn't bad at all. Throws felt a little longer than the MX-5's but it's not notchy, it's not too heavy, and it's not vague one bit. The clutch is a bit on the heavy side, though. But, even in rush hour traffic, I never felt like "man, this clutch is heavy".
QuoteGTO's are the shit. Everyone overlooks that thing. Crazy.:blink:
Your take on the MX-5 backs up my own opinion that it's probably the most fun you'll ever have behind the wheel for that kind of money. It's just so much fun to drive. I want one but it'll be a while. :mellow:
You know, he worked up a lease for me (even though the price was higher than the RX-8's) the monthly was lower than the RX-8's. It came to $403 (including taxes) a month over 48 months with inception down. My Passat is $285 monthly (I'm not sure if this includes taxes, I'll find out) so it's really not that bad. If you move some things around (I don't know your financial situation, of course) you could probably find space for it. Or, depending on how liquid you are, you could put a bunch down and finance the rest.
You are one lucky guy.
The GTO is it.
The one I drove today was some weirder color, similar to the Barbados blue, but I don't think that's what he called it. I can't find it on the website, but I think it might be Cyclone Gray, though it doesn't really look that gray. In that color, the new tail lights don't stand out as much, and the hood scoops look less ostentatious.
He did tell me that he could get me a Phantom Black one though, no problem. They sold the one they had last night after I left.
Congratulations, there really is no other car better than the GTO in its class. You got the best car, and that is exactly what you wanted.
QuoteThe GTO is it.
The one I drove today was some weirder color, similar to the Barbados blue, but I don't think that's what he called it. I can't find it on the website, but I think it might be Cyclone Gray, though it doesn't really look that gray. In that color, the new tail lights don't stand out as much, and the hood scoops look less ostentatious.
He did tell me that he could get me a Phantom Black one though, no problem. They sold the one they had last night after I left.
So you are getting a GTO then?
Lucky bastard. :P
Actually...are your parents okay with you getting a GTO? The 400 HP might scare some parents away.
QuoteQuoteThe GTO is it.
The one I drove today was some weirder color, similar to the Barbados blue, but I don't think that's what he called it. I can't find it on the website, but I think it might be Cyclone Gray, though it doesn't really look that gray. In that color, the new tail lights don't stand out as much, and the hood scoops look less ostentatious.
He did tell me that he could get me a Phantom Black one though, no problem. They sold the one they had last night after I left.
So you are getting a GTO then?
Lucky bastard. :P
Actually...are your parents okay with you getting a GTO? The 400 HP might scare some parents away.
I just have to do some research on reliability history of the GTO and Monaro, and I should be okay.
They'd be okay with a Corvette, I don't know why they wouldn't be okay with a 4 seater Vette that costs 15 grand less.
Do LS1 forums and stuff still discuss these cars, even though they're LS2s now? Are there GTO specific forums?
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe GTO is it.
The one I drove today was some weirder color, similar to the Barbados blue, but I don't think that's what he called it.? I can't find it on the website, but I think it might be Cyclone Gray, though it doesn't really look that gray.? In that color, the new tail lights don't stand out as much, and the hood scoops look less ostentatious.
He did tell me that he could get me a Phantom Black one though, no problem.? They sold the one they had last night after I left.
So you are getting a GTO then?
Lucky bastard. :P
Actually...are your parents okay with you getting a GTO? The 400 HP might scare some parents away.
I just have to do some research on reliability history of the GTO and Monaro, and I should be okay.
They'd be okay with a Corvette, I don't know why they wouldn't be okay with a 4 seater Vette that costs 15 grand less.
It might be a good idea to check out www.newageGTO.com. They have a decent sized community. I have never heard of any major issues but any car can get typical rattles/squeaks/gremlins though.
And PM "The Phantom" over at C&D. He and a friend both bought one around the same time.
A 1.8 Toyota is no longer your wet-dream engine now, I'm guessing ;P
QuoteA 1.8 Toyota is no longer your wet-dream engine now, I'm guessing ;P
No, it still is. But this is more feasible. Pricewise, the Elise is over 10K more, and honestly, I don't feel right asking my parents to spend that much. I would be taking over the payments on this car in two years or so.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI will definitely have to test drive a GTO before I buy my next car. Its sounds like an amazing car. Everyone that drives it seems to love it (except american car magazine journalists).
I don't think that is true, most of the reviews I have read have been very positive, the only complaints I have seen are about the lack of options and the shifter.
Yeah, the lack of options contributes to the "Is this a Mustang fighter or a 3 series fighter?" confusion. If they add options like satnav, satellite radio, and heated seats (sunroof would be nice) it would easily defined as the most powerful and fastest entry luxury car you could buy.
The shifter isn't bad at all. Throws felt a little longer than the MX-5's but it's not notchy, it's not too heavy, and it's not vague one bit. The clutch is a bit on the heavy side, though. But, even in rush hour traffic, I never felt like "man, this clutch is heavy".
I hear that. If the GTO had those options, I'd want one, no doubt. Congrats Raza, as always, keep us up to date. And btw, did YOU know what GTO meant in English? :lol:
I can't imaging how it could be all that unreliable. It is a relatively simple car that has not been electronically overdone.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI will definitely have to test drive a GTO before I buy my next car. Its sounds like an amazing car. Everyone that drives it seems to love it (except american car magazine journalists).
I don't think that is true, most of the reviews I have read have been very positive, the only complaints I have seen are about the lack of options and the shifter.
Yeah, the lack of options contributes to the "Is this a Mustang fighter or a 3 series fighter?" confusion. If they add options like satnav, satellite radio, and heated seats (sunroof would be nice) it would easily defined as the most powerful and fastest entry luxury car you could buy.
The shifter isn't bad at all. Throws felt a little longer than the MX-5's but it's not notchy, it's not too heavy, and it's not vague one bit. The clutch is a bit on the heavy side, though. But, even in rush hour traffic, I never felt like "man, this clutch is heavy".
I hear that. If the GTO had those options, I'd want one, no doubt. Congrats Raza, as always, keep us up to date. And btw, did YOU know what GTO meant in English? :lol:
Yes, I did. :D
But Grand Touring Homo-cat was close.
QuoteI can't imaging how it could be all that unreliable. It is a relatively simple car that has not been electronically overdone.
That's my logic too. The Monaro has been around for years, the LS2 is deeply rooted in the LS1 (right?) and that's been very good as an engine.
Yeah, and while driving it today, I didn't really miss the sunroof that much. But when I got back into the Passat, I did miss the 400bhp, RWD, and 6 speed manual.
I'm loading my camera phone pictures now.
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7045/mx5002a1uj.jpg)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8553/2006gto001a5jh.jpg)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1198/2006gto002a7ou.jpg)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2006gto003a8rp.jpg)
This is the background on my phone right now. Yes, the GTO is sexy enough to unseat Nicole Kidman, for the time being, at least.
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3323/2006gto006a0kd.jpg)
That color is called Cyclone Gray, but it doesn't look gray at all. That Impulse Blue one on the far end is the one I drove last night (I know because I parked it there).
I parked that GTO there too. Reverse parking in a stickshift isn't as hard as I thought it would be.
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8224/2006gto003a8rp.jpg)
This is my background image. Let's see if it works now.
I think it's pretty funny that I decided on a car that wasn't in my top 5.
Hmm..so much for quantification.
Quote(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8553/2006gto001a5jh.jpg)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3323/2006gto006a0kd.jpg)
I don't get why people call that car boring looking. Sure its not the most agressive car on the market, but it reminds me of the E46 3er coupe. Subtle, sophisticated, but a hint of aggression.
I'd prefer it without the scoops, but if you get Black they won't be noticable anyway.
I don't really think it is boring, just bloated. Not my style.
(http://ultimategto.com/carshows/bondurant04/05smoke.jpg)
Hehe...
(http://www.stfrancis.edu/cs/projects/black.gif)
State
QuoteState
That just means I need a 4 day weekend.
Uh-oh. My dad was just talking about his Cadillac.
????????????
I assumes that means raza's father doesn't want to buy an American car.
QuoteI assumes that means raza's father doesn't want to buy an American car.
Yeah--my dad had a very bad experience with Cadillac. But we've been talking, but he seems open to it again. Just a memory flash of a time when GM was an asshole.
QuoteQuoteI assumes that means raza's father doesn't want to buy an American car.
Yeah--my dad had a very bad experience with Cadillac. But we've been talking, but he seems open to it again. Just a memory flash of a time when GM was an asshole.
Just inform him that the GTO isn't American. It's built and engineered in Australia by Holden (which operates pretty independantly of GMNA) and rebadged as a Pontiac.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI assumes that means raza's father doesn't want to buy an American car.
Yeah--my dad had a very bad experience with Cadillac. But we've been talking, but he seems open to it again. Just a memory flash of a time when GM was an asshole.
Just inform him that the GTO isn't American. It's built and engineered in Australia by Holden (which operates pretty independantly of GMNA) and rebadged as a Pontiac.
I've said that like 6 times. I think he's okay with it, honestly. Though I still can't get him to try the Jaguar XJ.
On Edmunds.com there is a "Hood Scoop Delete" option...do you think I could get the dealer to perform the switch for me?
Pontiac's website doesn't list a hood scoop delete option. Wouldn't hurt to ask about it at the dealer, though.
If not, you think Troy would be up for a trade?
Did you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?
QuoteDid you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?
Almost a month ago. Maybe longer. That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".
:)
Expect an Automobear article on it soon.
Do it!
I am sure they would do the swap for you, but if they wouldn't a body shop would.
QuoteQuoteDid you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?
Almost a month ago. Maybe longer. That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".
:)
Expect an Automobear article on it soon.
I must have missed that ;) , I really want one but I dont think it would make it through the snow and I dont want to mess with a winter-beater
QuoteQuoteQuoteDid you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?
Almost a month ago. Maybe longer. That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".
:)
Expect an Automobear article on it soon.
I must have missed that ;) , I really want one but I dont think it would make it through the snow and I dont want to mess with a winter-beater
I honestly don't think it would be that bad. Probably better than the GTO, anyway.
With the Elise, the only thing holding you back would be ground clearance. You don't have traction control or stability management, but you've got a rear weight bias (I hear 911s handle snow beautifully, and so many people in Mustangs stuff their boots with sandbags) and only 190bhp. If you're good with your clutch and light with your foot, you could probably make it through 3 or 4 inches.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDid you ever end up driving an Elise Raza?
Almost a month ago. Maybe longer. That's what I mean when I say "The Lotus Elise is the most fantastic car I've ever driven".
:)
Expect an Automobear article on it soon.
I must have missed that ;) , I really want one but I dont think it would make it through the snow and I dont want to mess with a winter-beater
I honestly don't think it would be that bad. Probably better than the GTO, anyway.
With the Elise, the only thing holding you back would be ground clearance. You don't have traction control or stability management, but you've got a rear weight bias (I hear 911s handle snow beautifully, and so many people in Mustangs stuff their boots with sandbags) and only 190bhp. If you're good with your clutch and light with your foot, you could probably make it through 3 or 4 inches.
Its the low weight of the Elise that would scare. Even with its rear weight bias the GTO probably has more weight over the drive wheels for traction. Plus it has more traction for stopping and turning.
I've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out. Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque. As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
Are you still gonna bother the drive the Legacy?
QuoteAre you still gonna bother the drive the Legacy?
Probably, for posterity's sake. At least I can get an article.
"The
OTHER Subaru You Want to Own"
QuoteI've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out. Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque. As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
In my limited experience in the white stuff, traction control/stability control is more of a hinderance than a helper.
The only cars I have had with stability control were my Z3 and my A4. My Grand Prix had traction control but no stability control.
QuoteQuoteI've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out. Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque. As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
In my limited experience in the white stuff, traction control/stability control is more of a hinderance than a helper.
The only cars I have had with stability control were my Z3 and my A4. My Grand Prix had traction control but no stability control.
TCS/ASM has its place, but you couldn't drive through snow the whole time with it on, and you could with it off. The Mercedes has ESP that was so intrusive, you couldn't get moving sometimes, and you couldn't get throttle steer, obviously. The Passat only has ASR, which is a TCS by another name. That is always off.
I thought the no-scoop hood was a no cost option for this year. So the dealer should be able to swap it out for you if you desire.
QuoteQuoteAre you still gonna bother the drive the Legacy?
Probably, for posterity's sake. At least I can get an article.
"The OTHER Subaru You Want to Own"
:praise:
My accord has TC but stability control. I usually have it off but if the roads are slick I keep it on because I cant always tell when the tires are spinning. With it on a little light flashes on my dash.
QuoteI've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out. Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque. As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow? ;)
QuoteIf not, you think Troy would be up for a trade?
He has the 5.7-liter.
He is talking about the hood only.
QuoteQuoteI've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out. Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque. As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow? ;)
Over your drive wheels. My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it. Just like most things in life, balance is key. The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.? Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.? As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow? ;)
Over your drive wheels. My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it. Just like most things in life, balance is key. The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.
ha ha I imagine things could get pretty dicey if it had a rear weight bias with that 400hp. :lol:
Okay, so I just got back from Colonial Subaru. I went there to look at the Spec B, and after 15-20 minutes or so of salesmen walking by me as I looked at the trunk and back seat, I decided to seek someone out myself. I ran into the fellow that I talked to on the phone earlier, and we talked for a bit about the car. I then told him that I was now leaning towards the STi. We talked a bit more, wrote down some information, and he goes and talks to his manager.
He comes back and says "Well, my manager has guys in the back, and they would have to come get the car, since our only one is in the showroom and they'd have to take it out. Maybe if you come back on Monday or Tuesday with your parents we can get it out"
I say "So this is an age thing." Not a question, a statement. I had already told him that I'd driven the GTO alone for an hour, Elise, 350Z, and RX-8. I was furious.
"No, it's just that the guys are busy, and he doesn't want to pull them off what they're doing."
I say "I don't like jumping through hoops to test drive a car and I don't buy cars without driving them first. Today is probably the last day I'm shopping. If I can't find anything to sway me from the GTO, I'm going to put a deposit down and take delivery by Monday or Tuesday." And I turned to get ready to leave.
"Okay, hold on. Let me talk to my manager."
So, he and another salesman came back and said that they could just pull it out from where it's parked, and then we can go. They open the big doors, my guy pulls it out, and I get in. I'd have been giddy if I weren't so angry.
I got in, adjusted the seat, and found myself in an odd position. I was too close to the steering wheel, my left foot in the right place, but my right foot was crowding the pedals, and the steering wheel was too low, and I couldn't see the gauges. I drove off like this, finding at the next stoplight how to tilt the wheel. That took care of two problems, but my seating position still wasn't great.
But, when you get going there is plenty of power, and comes in great big surges. There's virtually no turbo lag, and the power comes on all at once. You get that satisfying whoosh sound, and you fly off. I drove it for a bit, took some decent corners, shifted hard, having some trouble getting into third. The gear change felt very light and pretty notchy--not the greatest shifter I've ever driven, and I might even say that the GTO's was significantly better. I know that the clutch on the GTO is much better--the STi's has a long travel, a vague pickup point, and it's easier to stall. In a GTO, I swear you can put it in first, pop the clutch, count to two, and then step on the gas and you won't stall. In the STi, I was on a hill, and these things sometimes make me nervous, since someone is inevitably up your ass and I don't want to fall against someone's Dodge Ram, and I stalled it, trying to get to that point where you can balance the car on the hill with just the clutch and gas, since the light was turning soon and I wanted to have that position. But, I couldn't get it just right, and I missed it. It pissed me off, to no end. I did get it going though, after that, I just fed it more revs and wasn't nearly as delicate as before.
Revving this car hard felt great, but when it came to the normal driving stuff, it just wasn't as good. You couldn't really use sixth, since the engine sounded awful under 2000 revs, like something had gone terribly wrong, so I had to keep it over 2000, and that meant no higher than 5th for cruising unless you were on a highway. But, no, we weren't on a highway, we were on the same highly patrolled road that I got my ticket on, so I was being careful. I did get a chance to test the handling, though I wasn't able to get it to its limits--not even a hint of tire squeal.
We got back to the dealership, and I was in disbelief.
I was in disbelief for 3 reasons:
1. I just drove an STi. When it first came out, they ran credit checks and had someone else drive you until the final stage of the buying process.
2. They pulled it out of the showroom for me.
3. I didn't like it as much as the GTO. When I stopped the GTO, I had this feeling "I have to own this car". I didn't have that with the STi.
The GTO is a true dual sport car. It's happy everywhere--traveling on the highway, in rush hour traffic, a day at the shops, on a track embarassing Ferrari 355 Spiders, carving up a back road, et al. The STi is not. The STi needs revs--it's a total lunatic, and so am I, so I thought I'd love it. The cars are close, surely, but if all things were equal, I probably wouldn't buy the STi.
To sum up:
The driving position was rubbish
The car has TWO spoilers
The large spoiler fills up your rear view mirror
It attracts more attention than a gay couple in Arkansas
If I had a little more time to fiddle with the seat, I might have been able to find a better position, but when I was in the GTO, it only took two or three seconds and I didn't have to adjust the seat anymore.
I did tell the guy that if he can come back to me significantly lower on a month to month basis that I'd probably go with the STi, and that means under $500 a month on a lease with inception only down. He said he could do it, but we'll have to see.
Sounds to me like you like the GTO better - go for it.
The STI has great performance, but I can't get past the styling. It looks like a 16 year olds car. You're 20, right? It might be a great car for you now, but as you get a couple of years older you're going to want something that looks a little more, I don't know, "grown up" (I mean grown up as in not having 2 spoilers and not "attracting more attention than a gay couple in Arkansas").
Go for the GTO.
I may be 20, but I feel like I'm forty. I always wanted something more grown up. Since I was 15 I wanted a 528i! I always wanted a midsize sedan, thinking that I ought to be sensible, and then there's this bit of me that often wins over that is totally mad, totally barmy, and says things like "the less practical the car, the better it is to own!". The GTO satisfies both of those crazy fools.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out.? Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque.? As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow? ;)
Over your drive wheels. My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it. Just like most things in life, balance is key. The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.
I was confused, I thought you meant a GTO would be worse in the snow because of its weight :)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've put the GTO in snow, with TCS on, you'll still probably just spin out. Remember, the GTO doesn't have any sort of ASM, either, so you've got more weight and more than twice the power and torque. As Richard Hammond said the traction control system in the GTO [VXR] is "simple, at best".
Correct me if i'm wrong but doesnt weight help in the snow? ;)
Over your drive wheels. My dad's S320 is terrible in the snow, and my E320 is fine in it. Just like most things in life, balance is key. The GTO has a front weigh bias, the Elise has a rear weight bias.
I was confused, I thought you meant a GTO would be worse in the snow because of its weight :)
Weight and weight bias. I was trying to say that the E320, a lighter car, was much better in the snow than the S320, a much heavier car.
(http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/2991/gto3ho.jpg)
Sig? :praise:
:rockon: old taillights, but great picture
I like the GTO. Very low key until the full power of the beast is unleashed. The Subaru is too "Boy Racer" where the GTO is like "I have nothing to prove, but if you insist!".
QuoteI may be 20, but I feel like I'm forty. I always wanted something more grown up. Since I was 15 I wanted a 528i! I always wanted a midsize sedan, thinking that I ought to be sensible, and then there's this bit of me that often wins over that is totally mad, totally barmy, and says things like "the less practical the car, the better it is to own!". The GTO satisfies both of those crazy fools.
Don't feel bad man. When I was 16, I had a strange affinity for Buick Skylarks (late 1970s vintage). Don't ask me why; it was for some inane reason such as that I liked the rear light panel. It reminded me in a way of the 1960s Mercury Cougars.
Of course, I also had a fascination back then with 2-seater Mercedes convertibles, and this was before they became somewhat of a chick car. In fact, I don't think the concept of chick cars really even existed back then.
It sounds like fun driving all these cars. I need to retire so I can do some of that. :P Good luck with it. :rockon:
My mom gets back from her holiday tomorrow. Might just be the best time to sell her on it.
QuoteMy mom gets back from her holiday tomorrow. Might just be the best time to sell her on it.
Isn't dad the one you really need to convince?
QuoteQuoteMy mom gets back from her holiday tomorrow. Might just be the best time to sell her on it.
Isn't dad the one you really need to convince?
I think he's ready to go with it. When I come home and tell him that an STi didn't make me feel the way the GTO did, he's convinced. My mom won't be too hard, like many mothers, I think she just wants to see me happy. It's just a matter of getting her out there and making sure it's known that I'm making the right decision. It also helps that I'll be taking over payments in two years or so, hopefully I can save some cash up and pay it sooner.
You can do that, right? Take a 60 month loan and pay it off early?
Yes you can.
QuoteQuoteQuoteMy mom gets back from her holiday tomorrow.? Might just be the best time to sell her on it.
Isn't dad the one you really need to convince?
I think he's ready to go with it. When I come home and tell him that an STi didn't make me feel the way the GTO did, he's convinced. My mom won't be too hard, like many mothers, I think she just wants to see me happy. It's just a matter of getting her out there and making sure it's known that I'm making the right decision. It also helps that I'll be taking over payments in two years or so, hopefully I can save some cash up and pay it sooner.
You can do that, right? Take a 60 month loan and pay it off early?
You can definitely pay a car loan off early.
Getting out of a lease early is a more expensive proposition.
Why would you (as in your parents) not pay in full to begin with?
QuoteWhy would you (as in your parents) not pay in full to begin with?
^ I agree, but didn't want to be the one to bring it up.
The interest rate is probably low enough that they can make up the interest plus some by investing the money. I know my parents could have paid for the Outback in full, but it just made more sense to finance.
QuoteThe interest rate is probably low enough that they can make up the interest plus some by investing the money. I know my parents could have paid for the Outback in full, but it just made more sense to finance.
I understand that argument, and a lot of people use it, and I'll acknowledge that in
some circumstances it's a valid argument. However, I think that line of thinking is generally overused, overhyped, and widely misunderstood.
The general line of thinking is "by paying cash, I'm effectively locking in a rate of return equal to what the interest rate would be on a loan. If I can invest at a higher rate of return, I should finance the car". A reasonable line of thinking, to be sure. And in some cases, i.e. in the case of zero percent financing (or at some other obscenely low interest rate), this logic can clearly be used to argue, correctly, that you should finance. (As a quick aside, keep in mind that in economic terms, zero percent financing is only truly zero percent financing if you can buy the car for the same price as you could if you paid cash. In other words, if you can get "zero percent financing" but have to pay sticker price when you could pay cash and get the car for $2500 under sticker, then it isn't really zero percent financing, it's just adding the interest to the up front cost of the car ... but that's beside the point, I only include it because I think a lot of people misunderstand zero percent financing when it's offered this way).
Back to the point, assume you can't get zero percent financing, and as short term interest rates have risen lately, you generally can't get it anymore.
Let's assume, say, you can finance a car at 6.5%.
Let's also assume that you think you can invest in the stock market and earn an
expected return of 11%.
So you can pay cash, effectively locking in a 6.5% return, or you can finance the car, invest in the stock market, and earn an expected 11% return. Some would look at this and say, "the choice is clear, finance the car and take the higher return, it's clearly the better choice." IMO, this line of thinking is wrong. Sure, in some cases, the higher return might make sense, but the choice is definately not clear cut.
In economics, we learn that the correct way at looking at different investments is on an after tax, risk adjusted basis. The dirty little secret about financing is, by paying cash, that 6.5% return you're effectively earning is both risk free and tax free (it's risk free from the perspective of you, the buyer, if, like me, you know that there is no chance in hell you'll ever default on a personal loan, it's not risk free from the perspective of the lender, which is why the loan is at a rate above the market risk free rate).. In other words, from the buyers perspective, choosing to pay cash is exactly like choosing to buy a treasury that yields 6.5%
after tax. Now, treasuries are currently yielding more like 5%, and that's before tax. That, folks, is the textbook definition of an arbitrage opportunity - and I, for one, will take that opportunity any time I can get it.
Now, I'm not saying you should NEVER finance a car, and I do understand that some people would rather have the 11% risky, taxable investment rather than the 6.5% risk free, tax free investment. My point is not to say you should never finanace. My point is, however, that when making your decision, make damn sure you understand that you are comparing a risk free tax free investment to a risky, taxable investment, and the decision is certainly NOT as simple as "11% is greater than 6.5%, therefore I'll finance". My guess is, a lot of people probably do look at it that way and have absolutely no clue that they're looking at the decision wrongly. The better way of looking at it is, in my opinion, ask yourself - "if someone offered to sell me a treasury that yielded, on an
after tax basis, a return that is equal to the interest rate on the car loan, would I buy the treasury?"
Lebowski, you're a smart dude, especially since you say much the same as what I would say. :P
In all seriousness, I might consider financing a car if I could effectively making it tax deductible by, for instance, using a home equity loan. Even that is dangerous without financial discipline, since the loan could be outstanding well beyond the useful life of the car unless you take steps to pay it off sooner.
But I have been paying cash for my cars for about the past 8 years. I last got a car loan in 1997, paid if off in 1998, and haven't had a car payment since.
I have thought about leasing this time, since I'm a low mileage driver. Still, I don't like the idea of not owning my car, and of the many potential hidden charges that come with leasing.
Your best point is on taxability. Car loans are not tax deductible, and investment earning are taxed, so you have to use after-tax numbers. The risk factor is also an issue. Also, I've been getting hit with AMT as well as reductions to my allowable deductions, so I don't get the full benefit of deducting the interest on a car loan even if I can finance it as a home equity loan. And my home equity loan has a floating rate, which carries risk. I could fix it, or a portion of it, but I still have the AMT and deduction reduction problem.
I can't quite say for sure that we're liquid enough to spend 33 grand in one day.
QuoteI can't quite say for sure that we're liquid enough to spend 33 grand in one day.
I'd be pretty surprised if you weren't, my parents have always paid up front, and we're not the most affluent people in the world. Of course, the most expensive car we've ever bought was less $20K, but still.
Adam, the interest rate on the Outback was 2.9% (and we also got a decent deal on the actual purchase price), I would assume that Raza's parents would be able to get something similar or, likely, even lower (considering it's a GM car we are talking about).
My parents have always paid in full for their cars because I think they know its risky to do otherwise, and, quite frankly, it's the simplist. I do remember seeing that Raza's father bought and sold a property once and made a few hundred thousand in just a few days (so I assume that's pretty much what he does for a living), so he might rather have the money that would buy the GTO elsewhere and pay off the loan month by month.
QuoteQuoteI can't quite say for sure that we're liquid enough to spend 33 grand in one day.
I'd be pretty surprised if you weren't, my parents have always paid up front, and we're not the most affluent people in the world. Of course, the most expensive car we've ever bought was less $20K, but still.
A lot of our money is in assets.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI can't quite say for sure that we're liquid enough to spend 33 grand in one day.
I'd be pretty surprised if you weren't, my parents have always paid up front, and we're not the most affluent people in the world. Of course, the most expensive car we've ever bought was less $20K, but still.
A lot of our money is in assets.
Emergency stash
QuoteAdam, the interest rate on the Outback was 2.9% (and we also got a decent deal on the actual purchase price), I would assume that Raza's parents would be able to get something similar or, likely, even lower (considering it's a GM car we are talking about).
When did you buy it? ST interest rates have gone up quite a bit in a short period of time.
QuoteWhy would you (as in your parents) not pay in full to begin with?
My parents got 0% on the 4Runner so they financed it for that reason... Nothing to lose...
Raza, go for the GTO. I just can't see anyone over the age of 16 in an STi or Evo.
A part of me actually wanted the GTO, but there's no way my parents would have let me.
QuoteAmerican Muscle :praise:
...in a Cavalier's skin. :P
Don't you mean Australian Muscle? :)
And I agree the GTO is a great modern muscle car, with handling that is good enough to keep it all under control.
BRealistic's here! YES!
He's one of the ones I liked from C&D.
Impressive, call it an unfair assumption but you've never struck me as the GTO-type(does that make any sense?).
Anyway congrats on your next purchase...whatever it is.
QuoteImpressive, call it an unfair assumption but you've never struck me as the GTO-type(does that make any sense?).
Anyway congrats on your next purchase...whatever it is.
Well, you've not been around too long. The guy at the Subaru dealership said the same thing, but I'm used to European cars, and I guess the Australian felt a lot like that. Plus, when the GTO first came out, I fell head over heels for its sexy, conservative shape. When it had the LS1 it was fast (I drove and reviewed one, you can read the article "Getting Caught With a Goat" at www.automobear.com) and lovely, and the LS2 is faster, and handles slightly better, and actually has brake pedal feel now! As soon as I came to a stop in the 2006, I said "Wow, I can feel the brakes!". This car is just so good. When I finally parked it back after driving it the first half hour, I just wanted to go home. Leave my Passat there and take the GTO home with me. I'd have lost my jacket and my copy of
Catch-22, but it'd have been worth it.
I guess I've been an all or nothing type of guy, though. I like sedans and wagons for their practicality, and I love roadsters for their complete lack of practicality. 2+2 coupes (other than the 911) never really interested me, especially sedan based coupes like the 330cis and G35s--why pay more for a car that is less practical and performs, at best, marginally better than the cheaper and easier to use saloon version?
In any case, of the 48 (and counting) cars that I've driven hard the GTO is the only one that I stopped and said "I want to own this car, and I wouldn't have to make any concessions" other than a sunroof of course. The Elise, yeah, but so many compromises.
Raza,- I looked and never saw you comment on the RX-8 test drive. Was it that bad? I did see where you mentioned stalling the engine once. But honestly, if you aren't almost stalling the engine every once in a while with a manual transmission, then you are probably slipping the clutch too much on average.
Anyways- what kind of a deal can you get on a new LS2 GTO now? Are they still dealing like they were on the LS1 models?
(And since you are used to European imports, you might be disappointed by the Pontiac dealership experience if you later need something addressed- but all of the mainstream brands are like that).
Last time he testdrove the RX-8 he loved it IIRC.
QuoteLast time he testdrove the RX-8 he loved it IIRC.
Yeah, he really liked the RX8, I wonder what happened to that.
And, generally speaking, I agree with you on your 2+2 theory (although I too would make an exception for the GTO). I usually would rather go with a 4-door or a 2 seater, the back seat of most 2+2s is too small for an adult to sit in anyway. Cars like the G35 Coupe, the BMW 6-series, and the Merc CL don't make a lot of sense to me.
Good choice on the GTO, though.
The back seat on the GTO is really nice though...much nicer than the BMW 6er or G35 Coupe (never been in back of a MB CL-Class or CLK Class). Its not easy to get back there if you are impatient, but once in you have plenty of room and seats that are just as comfortable as the fronts.
I would imagine the back seat of the CL class is very spacious for a 2+2 coupe.
One thing I do like about the GTO is that you don't see many around. And, even the ones you do see tend to melt in with the crowd, it's that innocuous. Sometimes you don't notice them until you hear their rumbling exhaust. :ph34r:
QuoteRaza,- I looked and never saw you comment on the RX-8 test drive. Was it that bad? I did see where you mentioned stalling the engine once. But honestly, if you aren't almost stalling the engine every once in a while with a manual transmission, then you are probably slipping the clutch too much on average.
Anyways- what kind of a deal can you get on a new LS2 GTO now? Are they still dealing like they were on the LS1 models?
(And since you are used to European imports, you might be disappointed by the Pontiac dealership experience if you later need something addressed- but all of the mainstream brands are like that).
Oh, no! I loved the car! It was brilliantly balanced, the power delivery was fairly linear, it was easy to drive, and 9000 revs is simply something else. But, if it comes down between the two, I'd have to go for the GTO, simply based on that feeling that I got. The RX-8 is an amazing car (and I'd choose it over the 330i, A4 3.2, and G35) but it just wasn't raw enough for me. If the GTO falls through for whatever reason (I don't think it will though) I would move to the RX-8.
As far as deals on the LS2 GTO, since I'm looking at a 2006, it's slim. Maybe a thousand or so under sticker, but nothing severely consequential--if they weren't there, it wouldn't have turned me off.
Edit, take two:
From what I'm hearing from owners, the Pontiac service has been strong, and the owners seem satisfied. I haven't been too happy with Volkswagen, I was content with Mercedes, so I imagine this can't be much worse than Volkswagen, and they have a loaner car service, so wait time won't be much of an issue.
This is what I had to say about it when I got back:
QuoteOkay, back from the RX-8.
First, I have to say it was not the most exciting car I've ever driven. The Boxster S is still better to drive, in terms of feedback, handling, and purity, but this is damn close. The seats are very comfortable and supportive, and it's easy to get into the proper driving position. I wish the steering wheel would telescope, but the tilt feature is almost as good.
The interior was shocking--it's so much better than the Nissan 350Z. The plastic on the dash never seems like a cheap slab, the interior actually feels bespoke (even though I spotted some Mazda6 bits in there) compared to the Z car which feels mass produced. Though Tiff complained of the rotary shaped shifter, I found it fit my hand perfectly, the point of the shifter fit great into the space between my thumb and index finger. The rifle grip handbrake is uber-cool, too. There are rotary shapes everywhere, from the front and rear air dams to the front seat headrests. There's even enough rear seat space to put two people for a few hours without hearing complaints.
The ride is firm, but compliant and smooth, never harsh. You're well aware of what's going on underneath, but it never slaps you across the face with it. You could eat highway miles in this car and never think twice about it. Handling is phenomenal, and the car deals with extreme curves with little drama.
The shift action is great, but not the best. It's a little notchy, but the shifts are short and low-effort, but for some reason I had trouble getting it into 3rd gear, and it took me a little while to get used to it. The 350Z, on the other hand is light and effortless, but a litte vague. The clutch is much better and more communicative and easier to modulate than the 350Z's, however, and I think overall, I like the RX-8's transmission better.
For those rotary-doubters out there, there is ample power almost anywhere in the rev band. At 3000rpm in 3rd gear, the car pulls when you step on the gas, no downshift needed. I had the car in pretty bad traffic (Tom probably knows what Roosevelt Boulevard can get like) and never felt like I needed more power. Plus, revving the car is so intoxicating.
Overall, I'd say that this car is a much better dance partner than the Nissan 350Z is, and it's more practical and cheaper to boot.
9000 revs. Now I understand love.
Quote
I guess I've been an all or nothing type of guy, though. I like sedans and wagons for their practicality, and I love roadsters for their complete lack of practicality. 2+2 coupes (other than the 911) never really interested me, especially sedan based coupes like the 330cis and G35s--why pay more for a car that is less practical and performs, at best, marginally better than the cheaper and easier to use saloon version?
I was going to get an E46 3erCi for two reasons:
1) The shape. The coupe is sooo much better looking than the sedan, and I always loved the 3er coupe.
2) I rarely use the back seat to carry people, it's mostly a storage area. So, I would have had my storage area (and adequate room to carry 2 people if I really need to) but I wouldn't have people trying to pile into my car like they do now.
Of course, I eventually ended up with the E90 instead.
If i haven't said it already, go for the GTO, and get it in black. It's a B**** to take care of in the winter, but it's worth it.
I've already owned a black car, Faris. I know how hard it is to take care of. I also know how rewarding it can be.
QuoteI've already owned a black car, Faris. I know how hard it is to take care of. I also know how rewarding it can be.
Go with Zaino polish (Z-5 for black ;) ). If I were getting one of these I'd go silver with a black (maybe red) interior. What can I say? I like silver. :praise:
WIth the 6 speed manual the red tag price on the Pontiac site is $31,768.57. That's pretty good.
QuoteI've already owned a black car, Faris. I know how hard it is to take care of. I also know how rewarding it can be.
I have three black vehicles at on time several years ago. NEVER AGAIN! :angry:
QuoteQuoteI've already owned a black car, Faris. I know how hard it is to take care of. I also know how rewarding it can be.
I have three black vehicles at on time several years ago. NEVER AGAIN! :angry:
My accord is black, I dont mind keeping it clean. The problem is that when I first got it I didnt really know how to take care of the paint. So now I have a little acid rain and spider-webbing.
QuoteQuoteQuoteI've already owned a black car, Faris.? I know how hard it is to take care of.? I also know how rewarding it can be.
I have three black vehicles at on time several years ago. NEVER AGAIN! :angry:
My accord is black, I dont mind keeping it clean. The problem is that when I first got it I didnt really know how to take care of the paint. So now I have a little acid rain and spider-webbing.
A couple coats of Zaino Z-5 and those spiderwebs will be gone. :o
You're such a consumer whore, Greg.
In any case, I'll give it a try.
QuoteYou're such a consumer whore, Greg.
In any case, I'll give it a try.
Hey, the stuff works!
Oh my!
WHOO!
I just ran comparative quotes on insurance.
GTO vs. 330i
GTO was significantly cheaper!
QuoteOh my!
WHOO!
I just ran comparative quotes on insurance.
GTO vs. 330i
GTO was significantly cheaper!
I was shocked at how reasonable the Corvette was, also. Out of the four cars I got quotes for (the IS350, G35, 330i, and Corvette), the vette was the most expensive, but that was expected, and the difference wasn't that much. It turns out it's about $90 per six months more than the G35 would be, $100 more than the 330, and $18 more than the IS350. I expected to get raped by my insurance company if I got the vette.
Yeah, you're right on the borderline, being 25 and all. But I think much of this comes down to accident rates, and since most Vettes are owned by old men, it's pretty low.
It costs more to insure an S2000 than a 911.
QuoteQuoteOh my!
WHOO!
I just ran comparative quotes on insurance.
GTO vs. 330i
GTO was significantly cheaper!
I was shocked at how reasonable the Corvette was, also. Out of the four cars I got quotes for (the IS350, G35, 330i, and Corvette), the vette was the most expensive, but that was expected, and the difference wasn't that much. It turns out it's about $90 per six months more than the G35 would be, $100 more than the 330, and $18 more than the IS350. I expected to get raped by my insurance company if I got the vette.
I would have expect the same thing insuring a 'vette. I guess the fact that most 'vette's are owned by guys in their 40s rather than guys your age really does have an impact on the rates. Glad to hear it, since you plan to get a 'vette. Good luck with it, man. :rockon:
BTW, do you have a good driving record? I wonder if a bad driving record would more significantly impact any of the cars you listed, or whether the effect would be roughly equal for all the cars.
Quote
It costs more to insure an S2000 than a 911.
:o
QuoteQuoteQuoteOh my!
WHOO!
I just ran comparative quotes on insurance.
GTO vs. 330i
GTO was significantly cheaper!
I was shocked at how reasonable the Corvette was, also. Out of the four cars I got quotes for (the IS350, G35, 330i, and Corvette), the vette was the most expensive, but that was expected, and the difference wasn't that much. It turns out it's about $90 per six months more than the G35 would be, $100 more than the 330, and $18 more than the IS350. I expected to get raped by my insurance company if I got the vette.
I would have expect the same thing insuring a 'vette. I guess the fact that most 'vette's are owned by guys in their 40s rather than guys your age really does have an impact on the rates. Glad to hear it, since you plan to get a 'vette. Good luck with it, man. :rockon:
My cousin says the Vette is a "middle aged pervert's car".
QuoteQuote
It costs more to insure an S2000 than a 911.
:o
If something is affordable and appeals to a young crowd that can afford it, the insurance spikes. The 911 is probably cheaper to insure than your Vette, also. I remember Kiplinger's choosing it as the one of the smartest buys since it was so inexpensive to insure.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOh my!
WHOO!
I just ran comparative quotes on insurance.
GTO vs. 330i
GTO was significantly cheaper!
I was shocked at how reasonable the Corvette was, also. Out of the four cars I got quotes for (the IS350, G35, 330i, and Corvette), the vette was the most expensive, but that was expected, and the difference wasn't that much. It turns out it's about $90 per six months more than the G35 would be, $100 more than the 330, and $18 more than the IS350. I expected to get raped by my insurance company if I got the vette.
I would have expect the same thing insuring a 'vette. I guess the fact that most 'vette's are owned by guys in their 40s rather than guys your age really does have an impact on the rates. Glad to hear it, since you plan to get a 'vette. Good luck with it, man. :rockon:
My cousin says the Vette is a "middle aged pervert's car".
He's right, but pervert in a good way.
QuoteOh my!
WHOO!
I just ran comparative quotes on insurance.
GTO vs. 330i
GTO was significantly cheaper!
Actually, that surprises me. It must mean that the GTO is a wuss car that really doesn't live up its billing or tradition. :lol:
You keep thinking that dazzle, and I'll race you for pinks.
:D
QuoteYou keep thinking that dazzle, and I'll race you for pinks.
:D
Hah, you'd whip my axx, not because of the car, but because I've lost my edge in that area due to my advanced age. :lol:
Truthfully, I've always been an 'open it up on a straightaway' guy. I love driving fast, but not in curvy or tight situations. I'm not confident that I have the skills not to f&$k up in that type of situation.
It might be fun to take the BMW driving course down in South Carolina. Do you know anything about that?
I've heard, but I've never done it.
I love the twisties, man. I live for them.
There's a track called BeaveRun not too far from my school that some of the mags test on sometimes, when they can't use Gingerbread Man.
(http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/beaverun.jpg)
QuoteI've heard, but I've never done it.
I love the twisties, man. I live for them.
There's a track called BeaveRun not too far from my school that some of the mags test on sometimes, when they can't use Gingerbread Man.
I'd like to check out fast driving on curves in a controlled situation. I still have my love for speed after all these years of driving. I think I actually drive faster now than I did as a teenager, largely because the cars I drove back then really couldn't handle speed. If you ever saw what I drove back then, you'd laugh your axx off, man. My '71 Montego had major wheel alignment problems, recirculating ball steering with a lot of 'play,' and one time it actually jumped a whole lane on a parkway when I hit a bump in the road while going around a curve. Not exactly the type of car you want to race in for pinks. :P I was also afraid back then about how my parents would react if I got a ticket, and that was a big restraint on my speeding. I knew that if I got nailed, I'd lose my driving privileges and get grounded for a while, and I didn't want that. Of course, now I have no such fears.
BTW Raza, what kind of driving record do you have? I don't remember you talking about it, but since you don't like cops too much, I assume you've had some run-ins with the law. :lol:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've already owned a black car, Faris.? I know how hard it is to take care of.? I also know how rewarding it can be.
I have three black vehicles at on time several years ago. NEVER AGAIN! :angry:
My accord is black, I dont mind keeping it clean. The problem is that when I first got it I didnt really know how to take care of the paint. So now I have a little acid rain and spider-webbing.
A couple coats of Zaino Z-5 and those spiderwebs will be gone. :o
I've heard that Ziano's is good stuff, where do you get it?
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI've already owned a black car, Faris. I know how hard it is to take care of. I also know how rewarding it can be.
I have three black vehicles at on time several years ago. NEVER AGAIN! :angry:
My accord is black, I dont mind keeping it clean. The problem is that when I first got it I didnt really know how to take care of the paint. So now I have a little acid rain and spider-webbing.
A couple coats of Zaino Z-5 and those spiderwebs will be gone. :o
I've heard that Ziano's is good stuff, where do you get it?
Zaino (http://www.zainobros.com)
You know it would probably have taken you less time to go to google and type in the word Zaino than actually asking :P
What are you guys looking at for insurance? On that new Vette and Raza what's it look like on the GTO or RX-8?
I pay $580 / 6 months for Full Coverage on the Viggen :P
Quote(http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/beaverun.jpg)
Look, it's a penis track for penis cars!
QuoteQuoteYou keep thinking that dazzle, and I'll race you for pinks.
:D
Hah, you'd whip my axx, not because of the car, but because I've lost my edge in that area due to my advanced age. :lol:
Truthfully, I've always been an 'open it up on a straightaway' guy. I love driving fast, but not in curvy or tight situations. I'm not confident that I have the skills not to f&$k up in that type of situation.
It might be fun to take the BMW driving course down in South Carolina. Do you know anything about that?
The BMW Performance Center Delivery Program provides customers with a complete automotive experience, including:
a tour of the $1.3 billion state-of-the-art BMW Manufacturing facility,
a visit to the Zentrum museum,
a thorough introduction to features of their new vehicle, and
specialized driving instruction by professional BMW drivers on the Performance Center's driving skills course.
BMW Performance Center Delivery can be arranged though BMW dealers and is available on all BMWs sold in the US, both those produced in Germany and in South Carolina. Customer orders for German-built models need to be placed at least 11 weeks in advance of delivery, while South Carolina-built vehicles, the Z3 roadster, the M roadster, the Z3 coupe and the M coupe, require at least 8 weeks.
Not buying a new BMW just yet? Then check out some of the other programs at the Performance Center.
Car Control Skills Clinic - Participants in this one-day program will practice accident avoidance on several areas of the Performance Center's driving course, including the water wall corridor, skid pad, slalom course, autocross circuit and lifestyle course. Participants are taught vehicle dynamics and the significance of weight distribution and seating positions and how they effect cornering under controlled and panic breaking situations.
Advanced Car Control Skills Clinic - This two-day session picks up where the Car Control Skills Clinic ends. Participants will spend more time on the skid pad and learn and gain an in-depth exposure to active safety technology to become safer, more responsible drivers.
M School - A one-day class utilizing the high-performance M3 and M roadsters. Participants will experience the dynamics of these high-performance vehicles and understand active safety features while maneuvering through the autocross circuit. Emphasis is placed on car control techniques.
M5 School - This one-day class is included in the purchase price of the 2000 M5. Participants will maximize their driving skills on the autocross circuit, water wall corridor and skid pad to experience the performance and handling of their new cars.
Advanced M Class - Driving lessons rush into the fast lane with BMW's new Advanced M School, an aggressive two-and-a-half day class held on the NASCAR track at Lowe's Motor Speedway in Charlotte, N.C. It's the latest driving adventure offered by the BMW Performance Center in Spartanburg, S.C.
New Drivers Course - The one-day class, intended for inexperienced drivers between the ages of 16 and 19, goes well beyond drivers education available to most teens by offering young drivers hands-on experience for many types of driving situations. Classes cost $300 and are limited to 12 students with both classroom theory and hands-on experience using BMW 3 Series couples and sedans. Students must be at least 16 years old and they must have at least a learner's permit (or equivalent).
Women-Only Car Control Clinic - "Many women have told us they appreciate the camaraderie and fun of sharing a learning experience with a group of other women so we've added a course just for them. The curriculum is the same as our day-long Car Control Clinic, but the experience is definitely different," says Tom Troy, Manger of the BMW Performance Center, where the driving school is based. "The clinic is taught by women, all of whom are accomplished professional drivers."
X5 School - Drivers can hone their skills with BMW's new sports activity vehicle, the X5, on an elaborate 1.4-mile "Other Roads" course utilizing a variety of paved, gravel and rough road surfaces, narrow bridges, inclines and obstacles.
To sign up for any BMW Performance Center program, simply call 1-888-345-4BMW (4269).
QuoteThe BMW Performance Center Delivery Program provides customers with a complete automotive experience, including:
a tour of the $1.3 billion state-of-the-art BMW Manufacturing facility,
a visit to the Zentrum museum,
a thorough introduction to features of their new vehicle, and
specialized driving instruction by professional BMW drivers on the Performance Center's driving skills course.
BMW Performance Center Delivery can be arranged though BMW dealers and is available on all BMWs sold in the US, both those produced in Germany and in South Carolina. Customer orders for German-built models need to be placed at least 11 weeks in advance of delivery, while South Carolina-built vehicles, the Z3 roadster, the M roadster, the Z3 coupe and the M coupe, require at least 8 weeks.
Not buying a new BMW just yet? Then check out some of the other programs at the Performance Center.
Car Control Skills Clinic - Participants in this one-day program will practice accident avoidance on several areas of the Performance Center's driving course, including the water wall corridor, skid pad, slalom course, autocross circuit and lifestyle course. Participants are taught vehicle dynamics and the significance of weight distribution and seating positions and how they effect cornering under controlled and panic breaking situations.
Advanced Car Control Skills Clinic - This two-day session picks up where the Car Control Skills Clinic ends. Participants will spend more time on the skid pad and learn and gain an in-depth exposure to active safety technology to become safer, more responsible drivers.
M School - A one-day class utilizing the high-performance M3 and M roadsters. Participants will experience the dynamics of these high-performance vehicles and understand active safety features while maneuvering through the autocross circuit. Emphasis is placed on car control techniques.
M5 School - This one-day class is included in the purchase price of the 2000 M5. Participants will maximize their driving skills on the autocross circuit, water wall corridor and skid pad to experience the performance and handling of their new cars.
Advanced M Class - Driving lessons rush into the fast lane with BMW's new Advanced M School, an aggressive two-and-a-half day class held on the NASCAR track at Lowe's Motor Speedway in Charlotte, N.C. It's the latest driving adventure offered by the BMW Performance Center in Spartanburg, S.C.
New Drivers Course - The one-day class, intended for inexperienced drivers between the ages of 16 and 19, goes well beyond drivers education available to most teens by offering young drivers hands-on experience for many types of driving situations. Classes cost $300 and are limited to 12 students with both classroom theory and hands-on experience using BMW 3 Series couples and sedans. Students must be at least 16 years old and they must have at least a learner's permit (or equivalent).
Women-Only Car Control Clinic - "Many women have told us they appreciate the camaraderie and fun of sharing a learning experience with a group of other women so we've added a course just for them. The curriculum is the same as our day-long Car Control Clinic, but the experience is definitely different," says Tom Troy, Manger of the BMW Performance Center, where the driving school is based. "The clinic is taught by women, all of whom are accomplished professional drivers."
X5 School - Drivers can hone their skills with BMW's new sports activity vehicle, the X5, on an elaborate 1.4-mile "Other Roads" course utilizing a variety of paved, gravel and rough road surfaces, narrow bridges, inclines and obstacles.
To sign up for any BMW Performance Center program, simply call 1-888-345-4BMW (4269).
thanks man
QuoteLook, it's a penis track for penis cars!
:lol: :P
You best believe we're all driving penis cars. No chick cars for us, man. :lol:
QuoteBTW Raza, what kind of driving record do you have? I don't remember you talking about it, but since you don't like cops too much, I assume you've had some run-ins with the law. :lol:
I've been pulled a few times, but only got one ticket, for 70 in a 35 (in my defense, it's a 4 lane 35--it's like a highway, where the average speed is around 50-60, and they don't pull over individual cars over. They clock you, then make the next light red, and pull over five or six cars at a time, since the limit is so artificially low. My grievances are as much with the police that enforce idiotic laws as the the idiots who make the laws, really. Though, I find it absolutely disgusting how many officers enjoy the act of giving out speeding tickets to young drivers, as if they're the only ones who speed. If they were to sit on the road that bisects my neighborhood, they would watch countless soccer moms and 9-5ers driving around at 40-45mph, and then they'd pull me over for doing 30. You can't even make a full stop at a stop sign, lest you anger the driver behind you.). In any case, I was able to plea it down to a 6 over, $120 fine and 2 points, instead of 4 points, $195, with the threat of immediate suspension and retest.
QuoteQuoteBTW Raza, what kind of driving record do you have? I don't remember you talking about it, but since you don't like cops too much, I assume you've had some run-ins with the law. :lol:
I've been pulled a few times, but only got one ticket, for 70 in a 35 (in my defense, it's a 4 lane 35--it's like a highway, where the average speed is around 50-60, and they don't pull over individual cars over. They clock you, then make the next light red, and pull over five or six cars at a time, since the limit is so artificially low. My grievances are as much with the police that enforce idiotic laws as the the idiots who make the laws, really. Though, I find it absolutely disgusting how many officers enjoy the act of giving out speeding tickets to young drivers, as if they're the only ones who speed. If they were to sit on the road that bisects my neighborhood, they would watch countless soccer moms and 9-5ers driving around at 40-45mph, and then they'd pull me over for doing 30. You can't even make a full stop at a stop sign, lest you anger the driver behind you.). In any case, I was able to plea it down to a 6 over, $120 fine and 2 points, instead of 4 points, $195, with the threat of immediate suspension and retest.
That's a pretty nasty ticket, man, but I think I remember you talking about it now. Didn't you knock it down to just about nothing. IIRC, you don't have a lot to complain about. And I can guarantee you do a good amount of speeding, so if this were a football game of you against the cops, you'd be in a strong lead on the scoreboard. A guy whose winning can afford to show some magnaminity to the other team. :P
I play mind games with myself about tickets, and it keeps me from getting upset about them, the way I used to. It really works, actually; so much of this stuff is in how you think about it. Much of the way punishment affects us is in the way we take it, and I realized when I was back in high school that I was making the various punishments I was taking worse for myself by maximizing them. I realized that by minimizing them, they shrunk down to almost nothing.
Since high school, many of my friends have been the type of guys who look at things like speeding tickets as a badge of honor. I have caught that attitude too. We took something negative and effectively made it positive. One tradition I started is that when a buddy gets a ticket, we buy him liquor equal in value to his fine. We've had a few good laughs over that, as guys say they're going to ask the judge for a higher fine when they get to court.
The other thing that makes it positive is playing the system. I always come away from a ticket feeling as if I've gotten over on the system -- I was supposed to pay some big fine, and I only paid a small one, and got hardly any points, after which I go out of my way to continue speeding.
Most people I know also have a mentality, within certain limits, that the faster you were going when you got nailed, the better it is. A ticket for 8 mph over the speed limit sucks and is an embarassment, but one for 25 mph over the speed limit is impressive and brings bragging rights.
I realize that these are not the best attitudes to have. Still, it's better than being angry about it, or blaming the cops. The funny thing is, most of my friends have gotten ticket after ticket, and have zero animosity toward police in general. You've got to take responsibility for your own actions, man.
There's no reason for speed limits to be so low.
Depends on the place, I have certainly been on streets that I thought had too high speed limits.
QuoteDepends on the place, I have certainly been on streets that I thought had too high speed limits.
I never have.
Part of the problem with speed limits is that some cars are much more stable at higher speeds and over irregularities and undulations on the roads. There are some back roads by my house where driving the speed limit in a large truck or SUV is almost to fast. But in my car I can drive 10-15 over and feel fine.
QuoteThere's no reason for speed limits to be so low.
In some cases, you're right. But not always.
I generally don't agree with the strategy of having speed limits too low. I think it makes lawbreaking common, and breeds disrespect for the law. In practical terms, when the vast majority of people are lawbreakers a good deal of the time, effective punishment is impossible, so the very light punishments that are dished out for speeding breed further disrespect for the law.
I'd rather see higher speed limits on highways, backed up by stiff punishment for offenders. Fines generally don't cut it either; serious offenders need to be forced to give up some of their time somehow, not just money.
Having said all that, I don't think anything is going to change for the forseeable future, so you should learn to live with it and work around it without being angry. There are far, far worse things to deal with that this.
QuoteDepends on the place, I have certainly been on streets that I thought had too high speed limits.
I have as well. Most of the ones I consider too fast are roads in poor condition, especially the narrow ones in really bad shape. One particular one comes to mind; about as wide as two midsize cars, windy, and full of depressions and potholes. Speed limit is 30, anyone who drives that road at thirty will end up slamming into the one other car they'll encounter on it. Two cars passing each other going opposite directions had better be going under ten mph, and cars come up out of nowhere.
QuoteWhat are you guys looking at for insurance? On that new Vette and Raza what's it look like on the GTO or RX-8?
I pay $580 / 6 months for Full Coverage on the Viggen :P
I currently pay $540 every 6 months on the truck. That's going up by $190, so the new rate will be $730 every 6 months. Not exactly cheap, but keep in mind the G35 would have been about $640, so I was surprised the the vette isn't that much worse than the G35. Also, I may be able to play around with premiums, etc., to get it down a bit.
A speed limit is the maximum speed you can drive and get away with it. Sometimes conditions may require you to slow down. A poor road is much worse for a big truck than an agile Ford Focus. I should know, I rode in one.
QuoteQuoteWhat are you guys looking at for insurance? On that new Vette and Raza what's it look like on the GTO or RX-8?
I pay $580 / 6 months for Full Coverage on the Viggen :P
I currently pay $540 every 6 months on the truck. That's going up by $190, so the new rate will be $730 every 6 months. Not exactly cheap, but keep in mind the G35 would have been about $640, so I was surprised the the vette isn't that much worse than the G35. Also, I may be able to play around with premiums, etc., to get it down a bit.
That's not bad in my opinion. I pay ~2400 CAD for 1 year of insurance on my A4. I think at current exchange rates that is around ~2000 USD per year, or ~1000 USD per 6 months (I always pay a year at a time though).
I am 28, no accidents, and no tickets since I was 18.
I pay about $1400 a year for both my vehicles.
QuoteI pay about $1400 a year for both my vehicles.
Senior discount?
:o
:ph34r:
The rates I ran, in my name, were $1900 a year for the GTO and $2100 a year for the 330i.
QuoteQuoteI pay about $1400 a year for both my vehicles.
Senior discount?
:o
:ph34r:
I used to pay more. I use the same insurance company for my homeowners so it is discounted plus my wife and I have no points.
Catman, do you drive the same in your own car or your wife's car as you do in your cruiser on duty?
QuoteI pay about $1400 a year for both my vehicles.
Dude, that's a very cheap rate. I'm paying a little less than that for one car.
QuoteCatman, do you drive the same in your own car or your wife's car as you do in your cruiser on duty?
Pretty much. I actually drive the cruiser a little slower since I'm looking around more.
^^^must be hard to do.
I pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $900 per year, and I'm 17. Buicks :praise:
Quote^^^must be hard to do.
I pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $900 per year, and I'm 17. Buicks :praise:
My friend's 1991 Regal was a whole lot cheaper than that. It's not in your name, is it?
QuoteQuote^^^must be hard to do.
I pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $900 per year, and I'm 17. Buicks :praise:
My friend's 1991 Regal was a whole lot cheaper than that. It's not in your name, is it?
No, it's in my mom's I think. Would probably be better off in my dad's cause mom's had some tickets...
Can't beat my insurance...
You guys all seem to have pretty cheap insurance. I'm especially surprised by Catman's low insurance, since he has pretty new cars and lives in a neighboring state to mine.
I pay about $1200 per year for full coverage, and that was the cheapest rate I could find after shopping around.
Raza, when are you going to be getting the GTO? You'd better not take delivery of your LS2 before I take delivery of mine!
And if I were you, I wouldn't supercharge it. My truck is supercharged, and probably 90% of the problems I've had w/ my truck have been supercharger related (luckily it's mostly minor stuff, needing to replace pulleys and stuff like that, but still a pain in the ass). Plus, why void your warranty? 400 hp is a LOT of power. I'd stick to stuff that won't compromise the warrantly or drivability, like maybe a CAT-back system and air intake, if that.
I plan on leaving the vette stock, at least for the first few months, couple thousand miles. If I do anything, it would be exhaust and air intake (and I've heard neither of those add much hp for the vette, the guys at corvetteforum say get the exhaust for the sound, not the hp boost).
http://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0 (http://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0)
I pay $1400 per year for full coverage for my Prelude. Completely under my name, and I'm covered for everything (special insurace for delivery). I have a $500 deductible and $1 mil 3rd party liability.
A 16 year old could insure a 1990 Corvette under his name with full coverage for $1,418 per year. (covered for using anytime anywhere with the exception of using it for work [ex. delivery], $500 deductible, $200,000 3rd party liability)
That's the beauty of government-run public insurance....
QuoteRaza, when are you going to be getting the GTO? You'd better not take delivery of your LS2 before I take delivery of mine!
And if I were you, I wouldn't supercharge it. My truck is supercharged, and probably 90% of the problems I've had w/ my truck have been supercharger related (luckily it's mostly minor stuff, needing to replace pulleys and stuff like that, but still a pain in the ass). Plus, why void your warranty? 400 hp is a LOT of power. I'd stick to stuff that won't compromise the warrantly or drivability, like maybe a CAT-back system and air intake, if that.
I plan on leaving the vette stock, at least for the first few months, couple thousand miles. If I do anything, it would be exhaust and air intake (and I've heard neither of those add much hp for the vette, the guys at corvetteforum say get the exhaust for the sound, not the hp boost).
I wouldn't supercharge either...but I wouldn't mind getting one of the Lingenfelter packages...
366 CID Package: 490 HP, 440 lb-ft of torque: $7,695
403 CID Package: 510 HP, 500 lb-ft of torque: $17,295
427 CID Package: 530 HP, 530 lb-ft of torque: $25,395
I would go for the 366 CID package personally since it seems like the best bang for the buck as far as power.
Of course if you get any of those you are going to want to upgrade your clutch/flywheel, suspension, and wheels/tires.
All work comes with a 2 year 24k mile warranty (vs Pontiacs 3 year 36k mile warranty).
Quotehttp://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0 (http://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0)
I pay $1400 per year for full coverage for my Prelude. Completely under my name, and I'm covered for everything (special insurace for delivery). I have a $500 deductible and $1 mil 3rd party liability.
A 16 year old could insure a 1990 Corvette under his name with full coverage for $1,418 per year. (covered for using anytime anywhere with the exception of using it for work [ex. delivery], $500 deductible, $200,000 3rd party liability)
That's the beauty of government-run public insurance....
While living in NJ I had NJ Manufacturers insurance. Its basically a privately owned but non-profit insurance company. I was paying ~1200 per year for full coverage on my Z3, plus I got "dividend" checks each year depending on how much profit they made. I actually just got me 2005 check in November this year for about a hundred bucks.
Quotehttp://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0 (http://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0)
I pay $1400 per year for full coverage for my Prelude. Completely under my name, and I'm covered for everything (special insurace for delivery). I have a $500 deductible and $1 mil 3rd party liability.
A 16 year old could insure a 1990 Corvette under his name with full coverage for $1,418 per year. (covered for using anytime anywhere with the exception of using it for work [ex. delivery], $500 deductible, $200,000 3rd party liability)
That's the beauty of government-run public insurance....
You're paying more than I am for a more expensive car. I'll stick with what I have over a government system. I don't trust government systems; they just end up wasting money and subsidizing bad behavior in my experience, at the expense of people trying to do the right thing. No thanks.
It's not going to happen for a while.
QuoteQuotehttp://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0 (http://www.mpi.mb.ca/irc/intro.asp?Lang=0)
I pay $1400 per year for full coverage for my Prelude. Completely under my name, and I'm covered for everything (special insurace for delivery). I have a $500 deductible and $1 mil 3rd party liability.
A 16 year old could insure a 1990 Corvette under his name with full coverage for $1,418 per year. (covered for using anytime anywhere with the exception of using it for work [ex. delivery], $500 deductible, $200,000 3rd party liability)
That's the beauty of government-run public insurance....
You're paying more than I am for a more expensive car. I'll stick with what I have over a government system. I don't trust government systems; they just end up wasting money and subsidizing bad behavior in my experience, at the expense of people trying to do the right thing. No thanks.
Mtl: You're 28 (so 26 at the time)
dazzle: You're 35.
I'm 18. I payed the same when I was 16.
That's also in Canadian dollars, plus age is not a factor.
Almost anywhere else, if you're under 25 you're screwed if you try to insure a car.
Every 5 years of "clean" driving, I'll get a merit (5% discount) up to a maximum of 5.
If I let my dad drive my car and he totals it, my insurace stays exactly the same.
Compare it this way:
Get me a quote for full insurance on a 1992 Civic Si Coupe for a 16 year old (under his name). Let's say he'll be using it to drive 10miles to school and back everyday. $500 deductible, $1mil 3rd party liability.
I'll be very suprised if you can beat $1,027.84 USD
RunAway, what you're basically describing is cost shifting, whereby higher risk people are effectively subsidized by lower risk people under a political, rather than economic, formula. That's the general problem I have with government-run programs -- decisions are made based on political rather than economic considerations, and you get results that don't make a lot of sense.
It works out well for you now, but later, when you're lower risk, you won't like subsidizing the kid who drives 100 mph down your street and wraps his car around a telephone pole every other week.
QuoteIt's not going to happen for a while.
D'oh. Does this mean no GTO for Raza? :(
Shucks, I was expecting some pictures of Raza's GTO to pop up in this thread any day now.
I was reading that the GTO isn't selling that well, and is considered a cheap imitation of the original GTO. Any comments on that?
QuoteIt's not going to happen for a while.
Why?
I don't like to test drive sporty vehicles unless I am buying. It drives me crazy to do otherwise.
QuoteI was reading that the GTO isn't selling that well, and is considered a cheap imitation of the original GTO. Any comments on that?
I think the people who think it's a cheap imitation are morons who don't know what they're talking about. That's just my personal opinion, though.
I was in Detroit at the NAIAS when the GTO was brand new (not in production yet, I don't remember if it was making its debut in Detroit or if it had been in other auto shows). I overheard a guy around 40 bitching that they screwed it up, just like they had past cars that reused nameplates - I think he was trying to compare it to the impala or something. I kept my mouth shut, but wanted to turn around and ask him how he could compare it to a FWD basically economy sedan w/ a weak V6 engine ... the GTO is the real deal, it's got a corvette engine (was still the LS1 at this point), RWD, probably the best interior of any GM product (including the corvette and the most recent cadillac products I've seen), and pretty good handling. About the only thing you can complain about, if anything, is the styling, and that is obviously subject to opinion. I personally don't love the styling, but I don't dislike it either.
Thanks for the comment Lebowski. I don't know much about the new GTO, so I was only asking, not implying that I agreed with the assessment given.
QuoteQuoteIt's not going to happen for a while.
Why?
I don't like to test drive sporty vehicles unless I am buying. It drives me crazy to do otherwise.
Me too. But it's not my decision. I'm quite upset at the moment, so the next thread I make about my next car will include pictures of my next car. I really don't want to talk about it anymore.
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt's not going to happen for a while.
Why?
I don't like to test drive sporty vehicles unless I am buying. It drives me crazy to do otherwise.
Me too. But it's not my decision. I'm quite upset at the moment, so the next thread I make about my next car will include pictures of my next car. I really don't want to talk about it anymore.
When you go from "I am buying and test driving" to "I ain't buying" in one week, then you obviously had something serious happen.
I wish you luck in whatever is happening in your family/business affairs, Raza.
Thanks, Bryan. I posted this earlier, but in case you didn't see it, the new MX-5 does have a tilt wheel (and trunk access from the outside).
QuoteQuoteI was reading that the GTO isn't selling that well, and is considered a cheap imitation of the original GTO. Any comments on that?
I think the people who think it's a cheap imitation are morons who don't know what they're talking about. That's just my personal opinion, though.
I was in Detroit at the NAIAS when the GTO was brand new (not in production yet, I don't remember if it was making its debut in Detroit or if it had been in other auto shows). I overheard a guy around 40 bitching that they screwed it up, just like they had past cars that reused nameplates - I think he was trying to compare it to the impala or something. I kept my mouth shut, but wanted to turn around and ask him how he could compare it to a FWD basically economy sedan w/ a weak V6 engine ... the GTO is the real deal, it's got a corvette engine (was still the LS1 at this point), RWD, probably the best interior of any GM product (including the corvette and the most recent cadillac products I've seen), and pretty good handling. About the only thing you can complain about, if anything, is the styling, and that is obviously subject to opinion. I personally don't love the styling, but I don't dislike it either.
Its amazing to hear just how car-ignorant some people are at auto-shows. I was at Detroit when the the Cadillac Sixteen appeared. I heard some guy bragging about how good it would be in the snow " cause its gota V16!" :rolleyes:
What really annoys me about some car shows are the snobs. I was at the NYIAS 2 years ago, and I wanted to check out a Cadillac SRX. As I was getting out, this old lady and her friend asked me in this snobbish tone "are you even going to buy it? Why are you even getting into it?" I basically told them to go to hell :lol:I'm paying the same 12 dollars they are to go into the same cars, and if they have a problem with it, well then f%@k them :lol:
QuoteQuoteI was reading that the GTO isn't selling that well, and is considered a cheap imitation of the original GTO. Any comments on that?
I think the people who think it's a cheap imitation are morons who don't know what they're talking about. That's just my personal opinion, though.
I was in Detroit at the NAIAS when the GTO was brand new (not in production yet, I don't remember if it was making its debut in Detroit or if it had been in other auto shows). I overheard a guy around 40 bitching that they screwed it up, just like they had past cars that reused nameplates - I think he was trying to compare it to the impala or something. I kept my mouth shut, but wanted to turn around and ask him how he could compare it to a FWD basically economy sedan w/ a weak V6 engine ... the GTO is the real deal, it's got a corvette engine (was still the LS1 at this point), RWD, probably the best interior of any GM product (including the corvette and the most recent cadillac products I've seen), and pretty good handling. About the only thing you can complain about, if anything, is the styling, and that is obviously subject to opinion. I personally don't love the styling, but I don't dislike it either.
Sometimes when I see them coming up in the rear-view mirror I'm thinking "great, a guy in a Cavalier with hood scoops :rolleyes: ". :P
Dazzle--I reviewed an LS1 six speed for Automobear some time ago, and wrote a new article on the 2006 LS2 6 speed that will be posted soon. It's worth a read, I think.
QuoteRunAway, what you're basically describing is cost shifting, whereby higher risk people are effectively subsidized by lower risk people under a political, rather than economic, formula. That's the general problem I have with government-run programs -- decisions are made based on political rather than economic considerations, and you get results that don't make a lot of sense.
It works out well for you now, but later, when you're lower risk, you won't like subsidizing the kid who drives 100 mph down your street and wraps his car around a telephone pole every other week.
People who crash still have to pay big, but it's on their license.
Normally it's $65 per year for a license, if you get into an accident where you are at fault, it goes to $480, then the year after $~250, the next $~120 then back to $65.
If you have 25 years of perfect driving, you get the 25% discount and the cost of insureing a car are good.
Another plus of our system is that the auctions for totalled cars are done at one lot, the same place and time every week. The auctions are open to the general public too, you don't need a dealer permit. So I can walk in a pick up a Prelude with a dent/scrape running down the side of the car, but otherwise in great running condition for $300. I've done so twice.
QuoteWhat really annoys me about some car shows are the snobs. I was at the NYIAS 2 years ago, and I wanted to check out a Cadillac SRX. As I was getting out, this old lady and her friend asked me in this snobbish tone "are you even going to buy it? Why are you even getting into it?" I basically told them to go to hell :lol:I'm paying the same 12 dollars they are to go into the same cars, and if they have a problem with it, well then f%@k them :lol:
grrrr...those type of people burn me up.
You should've been like "Mary Poppins, do you know
anything about it, other than that it's a Cadillac? Care to share with me it's drive wheels, engine displacement, etc.? Would you like to explain to me the concept of Variable Valve Timing?"
Mary Poppins: "I don't even know what you're saying you little runt, get out of our way."
You: "Oh, well then perhaps you shouldn't buy one either, Joan Rivers."
She must've felt that she would look silly getting into a car that you just came out of so she decided to be the classic rich bitch. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteWhat really annoys me about some car shows are the snobs. I was at the NYIAS 2 years ago, and I wanted to check out a Cadillac SRX. As I was getting out, this old lady and her friend asked me in this snobbish tone "are you even going to buy it? Why are you even getting into it?" I basically told them to go to hell :lol:I'm paying the same 12 dollars they are to go into the same cars, and if they have a problem with it, well then f%@k them :lol:
grrrr...those type of people burn me up.
You should've been like "Mary Poppins, do you know anything about it, other than that it's a Cadillac? Care to share with me it's drive wheels, engine displacement, etc.? Would you like to explain to me the concept of Variable Valve Timing?"
Mary Poppins: "I don't even know what you're saying you little runt, get out of our way."
You: "Oh, well then perhaps you shouldn't buy one either, Joan Rivers."
She must've felt that she would look silly getting into a car that you just came out of so she decided to be the classic ritch bitch. :rolleyes:
:lol: Yea, next time, I'll really say whats on my mind to such people :lol:
I like correcting the press spokesmodels. It's funny because they know nothing.
Alright Raza, don't mean to be nosy but ... what happened? Are you not getting the GTO? Or, why the wait?
QuoteAlright Raza, don't mean to be nosy but ... what happened? Are you not getting the GTO? Or, why the wait?
Yeah, WTF? :mellow:
It's pretty personal. I'm still decided on the GTO, but I don't think it will happen until March or April.
I've been waiting 8 years for this moment. What's a few more months?
QuoteIt's pretty personal. I'm still decided on the GTO, but I don't think it will happen until March or April.
I've been waiting 8 years for this moment. What's a few more months?
That's not that much longer than I'm going to have to wait for my car (and in fact I may end up waiting longer, there is a lot of uncertainty about how long it takes to get the Z51). So, don't feel too bad :lol:
I have a similar attitude. I've waited a long time for this, and in both of our cases, its not like our existing cars are bad.
However, I'll admit the past 2 weeks have been harder than I had expected, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better.
I've been shopping for my first car since I was 12 and we were shopping for my brother's. I had then decided on the M Roadster or M coupe. Leaning towards the roadster. Then, I believe they discontinued that, and I went to the 528i five speed. Then, that became the 530i five speed and that was my choice, and then I thought about the C32, and I finally went back to the 530i manual. Of course, I was handed the keys to my mom's E320 as she took a new S500 (It would have been cheaper to buy me a car, but my dad is my dad) and I was shopping for something to replace my E320 with when my brother's lease was up (he wanted the color combination I had, and he's not enough of an enthusiast to see the E320's faults, though I did love that car) and I came up to the fact that it would be a 2004/5 WRX Wagon, 5 speed, and I got the Passat.
I've almost owned a lot of cars.
I can wait a bit before I get something that's finally mine.
It's not yours unless you actually pay for it. When somebody else buys you something, they can always hold it over your head. Never forget that, man.
QuoteIt's not yours unless you actually pay for it. When somebody else buys you something, they can always hold it over your head. Never forget that, man.
Well, I had the E320 since it was convenient, and I have the Passat because I need it and no one else wants to drive it. I'd have the GTO since I want it (and no one else would want to drive it--my mom hasn't driven stick in over 30 years, probably, my brother doesn't want to learn, and my dad wouldn't drive a Pontiac).
QuoteQuoteIt's not yours unless you actually pay for it. When somebody else buys you something, they can always hold it over your head. Never forget that, man.
Well, I had the E320 since it was convenient, and I have the Passat because I need it and no one else wants to drive it. I'd have the GTO since I want it (and no one else would want to drive it--my mom hasn't driven stick in over 30 years, probably, my brother doesn't want to learn, and my dad wouldn't drive a Pontiac).
I think you may have missed his point.
Mom: Raza, no more car for you!
Raza: What?!
Mom: You do shit like that, I'm taking your car away. We payed for it!
I believe that was his point, or that general idea.
Your bother should learn stick...you never know when you might have to drive one
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt's not yours unless you actually pay for it. When somebody else buys you something, they can always hold it over your head. Never forget that, man.
Well, I had the E320 since it was convenient, and I have the Passat because I need it and no one else wants to drive it. I'd have the GTO since I want it (and no one else would want to drive it--my mom hasn't driven stick in over 30 years, probably, my brother doesn't want to learn, and my dad wouldn't drive a Pontiac).
I think you may have missed his point.
No, I didn't. I just decided to clarify mine.
QuoteYour bother should learn stick...you never know when you might have to drive one
Yeah, I told him that. But then, he keeps trying to convince me that I should just buy an automatic.
QuoteIt's not yours unless you actually pay for it. When somebody else buys you something, they can always hold it over your head. Never forget that, man.
It's true, I bet it would be even sweeter if he bought it himself.
But I'm sure a gratis GTO is plenty fun.
Spoiled bastard :lol:
QuoteQuoteYour bother should learn stick...you never know when you might have to drive one
Yeah, I told him that. But then, he keeps trying to convince me that I should just buy an automatic.
No, he should just learn to drive stick.
QuoteQuoteQuoteYour bother should learn stick...you never know when you might have to drive one
Yeah, I told him that. But then, he keeps trying to convince me that I should just buy an automatic.
No, he should just learn to drive stick.
That's what I keep telling him.
Him: "What if you hurt your knee again and someone else needs to drive your car."
Me: "Well, for one, I don't really live here anymore."
Him: "But what if?"
Me: "Everyone else in the family can drive stick. Just not you."
Him: "Oh."
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYour bother should learn stick...you never know when you might have to drive one
Yeah, I told him that. But then, he keeps trying to convince me that I should just buy an automatic.
No, he should just learn to drive stick.
That's what I keep telling him.
Him: "What if you hurt your knee again and someone else needs to drive your car."
Me: "Well, for one, I don't really live here anymore."
Him: "But what if?"
Me: "Everyone else in the family can drive stick. Just not you."
Him: "Oh."
How old is he?
When you get a stick, maybe that will give him an opportunity to learn. I think a lot of people who don't know how overestimate how hard it is. It really isn't hard at all (as you know).
He's 4 years older than I am. I'll try, but I doubt he'll learn. He has the ability to, but he really likes the effortlessness of an automatic. He even likes the steering of the E320, which is really too light until you get going very, ver fast.
Everyone in my family drives stick, even my 16 year old sis (although she's only taken the ol' A4 down the street and back with my dad).
QuoteEveryone in my family drives stick, even my 16 year old sis (although she's only taken the ol' A4 down the street and back with my dad).
Technically everyone in my family can also drive a MT, but your sister's skills are probably more advanced than my brother's even though he has had a lot more experience. Every time I've ridden with him in the Subaru he has missed a couple of shifts and stalled a couple of times.
My experience with Subarus is that their clutches are a bit on the tricky side. The WRX was very grabby, though they've improved, it takes a bit of time to get used to. I've never missed a shift, though.
Does a quick shift to second resulting in tires squealing do anything to the transmission or engine? Or does it just decrease the tread faster on my expensive run-flats?
It depends on how it's done. Are you letting up on the gas while shifting? Are the revs dropping off to the proper place before you release the clutch again?
EDIT: Actually, if you think about it, you're putting some wear and tear on both your clutch and your synchros. The only way to get tire squel in second is to shift into second while the revs are above where they should be for that given speed, then dropping the clutch.
Just a high-RPM (not even redline) shift from first to second, simple as that, will result in tire squeal. Damn thing's pretty fast. Don't need to drop the clutch, but I guess it makes sense that it does put wear on the clutch.
There's no way to produce tire squel other than to have your engine spinning faster than the given speed for the next gear, shifting into that gear, then popping the clutch out.
That's if you're chirping your tires when you shift. If you are shifting at redline, but doing it slow enough for the revs to drop down where they should be for second gear at that given speed, let out the clutch, then slam on the gas, and have enough power to chirp them, then no harm done except to the tires, but I doubt that's how you're doing it. That takes a lot of power and self control. :D
If your tires squeal when you shift that means your transmission is spinning faster than your tires, which means you are not engaging the gear at the appropriate RPM. This does indeed add wear and tear to a clutch and synchros.
And I don't think its really just a "normal shift" from first to second that can get that reaction. I drove a 325i and 330i in the wet and niether car reacted as you describe. You have got to be revving the engine beyond "normal shifting" to get that reaction from a 3er.
It just means you're hauling ass. You are putting wear on the drivetrain, due to the shock of things not spinning at the same speed being forced to match up.
Chirping the 1-2 shift is okay (if you're trying to shift fast, you can't expect the engine to drop the xxx rpm gap between 1st and 2nd in a split second shift), if you're chirping the 2-3 shift with a stock 3er you're not being smooth enough (engine doesn't make enough power to overpower the tires if you're not popping the clutch).
When I first got my car I'd chirp the 2-3 shift because I wasn't timing my clutch release properly, now I don't.
QuoteJust a high-RPM (not even redline) shift from first to second, simple as that, will result in tire squeal. Damn thing's pretty fast. Don't need to drop the clutch, but I guess it makes sense that it does put wear on the clutch.
You're letting the clutch out too quickly. You chirp a 350Z's tires going into 2nd and sometimes 3rd, but only if you're really going at it.
QuoteMy experience with Subarus is that their clutches are a bit on the tricky side. The WRX was very grabby, though they've improved, it takes a bit of time to get used to. I've never missed a shift, though.
The Outback's clutch and shifter do leave a lot to be desired, it is much harder to drive than that 15 year old Accord was.
Yeah, they can take some time to get used to. Far from the worst I've driven, but nowhere near the best.