http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/11/report-alfa-romeo-pushes-back-brands-comeback-six-months/#more-1211721 (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/11/report-alfa-romeo-pushes-back-brands-comeback-six-months/#more-1211721)
Look at the surprise on my face. :rolleyes:
Disappointing...but yeah not surprised.
Is this a foreshadowing of their "reliability" ratings?
"My Alfa needs new cup holders! Waiting time? Six months!" :lol:
How many times now has Alfa pushed their return to the US market back? Seems I've been hearing "Alfa will return to the US next year" since 2003.
Disappointed, but not surprised.
Alfa's long dalayed return to America has been chronicled here....
http://www.carspin.net/index.php?topic=24815.msg1512622#msg1512622 (http://www.carspin.net/index.php?topic=24815.msg1512622#msg1512622)
While they may technically be back in America thanks to the 4C, that car is so unbelievably rare I have yet to see one out in the real world.
If you're an American and would like to own and drive an Alfa Romeo it's more efficient to move to Europe! Seriously. :thumbsup:
Alfa should have stayed semi premium and kept with making cars like the 159 better versions of themselves. Like an Italian Audi or Acura, not this above BMW shit that's going to fail
Quote from: 2o6 on November 06, 2015, 10:14:37 AM
Alfa should have stayed semi premium and kept with making cars like the 159 better versions of themselves. Like an Italian Audi or Acura, not this above BMW shit that's going to fail
Well back in the day when Alfa were still making RWD cars they were called "the Italian BMWs".
Alfa also receives credit for coming out with the sports sedan well before BMW.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 06, 2015, 11:05:13 AM
Well back in the day when Alfa were still making RWD cars they were called "the Italian BMWs".
Alfa also receives credit for coming out with the sports sedan well before BMW.
:hmm: You make a good point
Unfortunately the Fiat and Alfa cant seem to get their shit together. A good idea is kind of worthless if you can't execute. In the car business I would argue execution is more important than good ideas (see Toyota)
Quote from: 2o6 on November 06, 2015, 10:14:37 AM
Alfa should have stayed semi premium and kept with making cars like the 159 better versions of themselves. Like an Italian Audi or Acura, not this above BMW shit that's going to fail
Nicer more engaging Mazdas.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 06, 2015, 09:12:18 AM
If you're an American and would like to own and drive an Alfa Romeo it's more efficient to move to Europe! Seriously. :thumbsup:
Okay, sounds good to me. You're hiring, right? When do I start? :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 06, 2015, 12:42:25 PM
:hmm: You make a good point
Unfortunately the Fiat and Alfa cant seem to get their shit together. A good idea is kind of worthless if you can't execute. In the car business I would argue execution is more important than good ideas (see Toyota)
I can't comment on the delays. Not sure what's going on inside the firm.
Quote from: Madman on November 06, 2015, 09:52:36 PM
Okay, sounds good to me. You're hiring, right? When do I start? :lol:
Yeah, I need someone to wash my dishes and clean my villa! You're hired! :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on November 06, 2015, 10:14:37 AM
Alfa should have stayed semi premium and kept with making cars like the 159 better versions of themselves. Like an Italian Audi or Acura, not this above BMW shit that's going to fail
Semi premium + weak brand = death. See: Saab, Alfa, Peugeot, Renault etc.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 07, 2015, 11:26:37 AM
Semi premium + weak brand = death. See: Saab, Alfa, Peugeot, Renault etc.
Since when was Renault a semi-premium brand?
Quote from: Madman on November 07, 2015, 09:25:48 PM
Since when was Renault a semi-premium brand?
Are you denigrating these luxury machines?
(http://onlytruecars.com/data_images/gallery/01/renault-alliance/renault-alliance-06.jpg)
(http://onlytruecars.com/data_images/models/renault-le-car/renault-le-car-08.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 07, 2015, 11:26:37 AM
Semi premium + weak brand = death. See: Saab, Alfa, Peugeot, Renault etc.
Eh, I'm not sure the business strategy was the problem for Saab. GM's talent at mismanaging brands was the bigger culprit. Look at how badly they're failing with Cadillac (save for the Escalade) for example...
I mean, towards the end, 40% of their lineup consisted of a barely worked over Impreza and a lazy re-badge of an awful SUV that, even if it were a good truck, didn't share a single dynamic, stylistic or cultural element with its parent company. Why would I pay 10k over a Trailblazer when I can get an actual semi-premium SUV? Why buy an AWD hatch when one of it's biggest selling points is the nameplate that it had removed?
Quote from: ifcar on November 07, 2015, 09:34:42 PM
Are you denigrating these luxury machines?
(http://onlytruecars.com/data_images/gallery/01/renault-alliance/renault-alliance-06.jpg)
(http://onlytruecars.com/data_images/models/renault-le-car/renault-le-car-08.jpg)
My point exactly.
But it's made of success! Didn't you read the ad? At least the big words in it. I can't read the small words. But the big one says success.
Quote from: ifcar on November 08, 2015, 07:42:56 PM
But it's made of success! Didn't you read the ad? At least the big words in it. I can't read the small words. But the big one says success.
When my Alliance threw a rod through the oil pan, "success" was not the word that came to my mind!
Quote from: Madman on November 08, 2015, 07:54:54 PM
When my Alliance threw a rod through the oil pan, "success" was not the word that came to my mind!
Mechanical failures are a great indicator of luxury. You think a Ferrari from that year didn't need its share of repairs?
Quote from: Madman on November 07, 2015, 09:25:48 PM
Since when was Renault a semi-premium brand?
:lol:
(http://automodels.net/media/renault/pics/renault-25-b29-%5B8621%5D.jpg)
(http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/autowp.ru_renault_safrane_bi-turbo_2.jpg)
Quote from: Madman on November 07, 2015, 09:25:48 PM
Since when was Renault a semi-premium brand?
They did try.
(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/RENAULTAvantime-2026_2.jpg)
(http://racem.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Renault-avantime-7.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Renault_Vel_Satis_3.0_dCi_V6_%E2%80%93_Frontansicht,_5._Mai_2012,_Ratingen.jpg)
Not even the worst attempt. Before that they had semi premium cars like the Safrane, or the 25.
Back in the day, you could get a Daewoo with leather and some fancy options. That still didn't make it a premium (or even a semi-premium) product.
US spec.
(http://cdn-3.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601225/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-4.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601226/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-8.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601227/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-6.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601232/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-5.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601233/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-3.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601242/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-6.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601244/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-9.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601234/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-9.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601235/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-5.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601237/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-0.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601236/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-7.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601247/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-8.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601249/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-5.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601239/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-0.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601273/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-3.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601280/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-9.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601286/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-7.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601289/00.jpg)
(http://cdn-1.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601288/00.jpg)
lolwut
If it drives as good as it looks it will be the best car anywhere near it's class.
Not too surprised by the price (70k), but I think most folks will stick with the standard bearers in this class for that money (M3/4, C63 AMG, etc...). If their main goal is for this model to be a halo for the normal Giulia then that is probably fine.
Holy fuck that looks amazing.
Want. Immediately.
+1 ^^^
I want to see what it looks like in not this trim; this is like saying that an M3 is what all 3 series look like
Yes
Most cars look good lowered + lipped out + rimmed out
It is the best looking of the M3/C63/etc bunch though by a long shot
Plus that color treatment doesn't seem stock. I've never seen that nice a red on any stock car in that class.
Consumer Reports: "But a Camry is so much more reliable..."
Car Enthusiasts: "Shut the god damn fuck up, Consumer Reports!"
:lol:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 19, 2015, 03:45:02 AM
Consumer Reports: "But a Camry is so much more reliable..."
Car Enthusiasts: "Shut the god damn fuck up, Consumer Reports!"
:lol:
OK, this stopped being funny about 6 years ago.
(http://i.imgur.com/EoKWq2Oh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YeKIhDZh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/IHqudQmh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/lXUkdLOh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8gmarpch.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gw2UqZ5h.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/yy6AD9Bh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ye8pMyDh.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/tYlCPkAh.jpg)
Am I the only one who thinks this would look better with a slightly longer trunk? The back 1/4 of the car looks disproportionately small compared to the hood/cabin
Quote from: SVT_Power on November 24, 2015, 01:46:32 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this would look better with a slightly longer trunk? The back 1/4 of the car looks disproportionately small compared to the hood/cabin
Nah, the car is kinda awkward looking. And I still want to see it not in race trim.
Nothing awkward about this car. It's sexy as hell.
Quote from: SVT_Power on November 24, 2015, 01:46:32 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this would look better with a slightly longer trunk? The back 1/4 of the car looks disproportionately small compared to the hood/cabin
No, I agree. It's like they tried to apply roadster proportions to a sedan. It's not awful, but it is slightly off.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 24, 2015, 02:41:56 PM
No, I agree. It's like they tried to apply roadster proportions to a sedan. It's not awful, but it is slightly off.
It's sort of 3-series ish in its proportions. But not at the same time. :lol:
Man, too bad we'll never get them here.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 24, 2015, 02:28:45 PM
Nothing awkward about this car. It's sexy as hell.
Its proportions are almost just like if you took a Maserati Quattroporte and chopped half of the trunk lid off to shorten the back end
Quote from: SVT_Power on November 25, 2015, 06:46:58 AM
Its proportions are almost just like if you took a Maserati Quattroporte and chopped half of the trunk lid off to shorten the back end
And it's sexy as hell.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 25, 2015, 08:05:42 AM
And it's sexy as hell.
I agree, the Quattroporte has possibly the sexiest, most perfect proportions for a sedan I've ever seen
This Giulia thing? Not a bad looking car by any means, but definitely not as beautifully proportioned as a Quattroporte
Quote from: SVT_Power on November 25, 2015, 08:54:37 AM
I agree, the Quattroporte has possibly the sexiest, most perfect proportions for a sedan I've ever seen
This Giulia thing? Not a bad looking car by any means, but definitely not as beautifully proportioned as a Quattroporte
The Giulia has the same proportions as my G37. I think both look awesome.
(http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Side.jpg)
(http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2015/11/2017-Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Quadrifoglio-side.jpg)
I think it's partially the fact that the trunk lid, as well as the crease line coming off the bottom of the windows, continues to slope downward. This angle shows what I mean. The trunk lid is barely at a different angle than the rear windshield.
(http://cdn-9.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601234/00.jpg)
Whereas the 3 series, which has similar proportions as Chris pointed out, has a slightly flatter trunk lid, plus the crease line is flat to meet the trunk lid at the the rear-most point of the car.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-98Kta74zhRg/Tphwv1Z53JI/AAAAAAAAS90/zf4nmVoofUY/s1600/2013+BMW+3-Series+Profile.jpeg)
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 25, 2015, 09:56:51 AM
I think it's partially the fact that the trunk lid, as well as the crease line coming off the bottom of the windows, continues to slope downward. This angle shows what I mean. The trunk lid is barely at a different angle than the rear windshield.
(http://cdn-9.motor1.com/p/static/img/mglr/600000/600000/601000/601200/601234/00.jpg)
Whereas the 3 series, which has similar proportions as Chris pointed out, has a slightly flatter trunk lid, plus the crease line is flat to meet the trunk lid at the the rear-most point of the car.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-98Kta74zhRg/Tphwv1Z53JI/AAAAAAAAS90/zf4nmVoofUY/s1600/2013+BMW+3-Series+Profile.jpeg)
And I prefer the way they styled the Giulia. Looks sportier.
IMO it makes the Giulia look more muscular from the back.
I think the 3 series is a better looking car, and I liked previous Giorgio Guigaro and Italdesign designs for Alfa Romeo better.
I still want to see it in non Quadrafolio trim; everything looks good and mean with a front diffuser, but wheels, and wide track.
It's like comparing 3 series to an M3
http://www.carscoops.com/2016/02/fca-gets-former-ferrari-chief-engineer.html (http://www.carscoops.com/2016/02/fca-gets-former-ferrari-chief-engineer.html)
Supplier sources told AutoNews that the new Alfa Romeo Giulia failed to pass front, side and rear crash tests which resulted in an extensive re-engineering which will add about six months to the model's market launch.
Oh my god.
This car is DOA.
Damn. I want Alfa and Fiat to succeed, but it's all becoming a Greek Italian Tragedy. How can they be fucking up on so many fronts?
Bad decisions.
Quote from: Rockraven on February 05, 2016, 09:58:31 AM
Damn. I want Alfa and Fiat to succeed, but it's all becoming a Greek Italian Tragedy. How can they be fucking up on so many fronts?
I know the feeling. As someone who used to own a Fiat and came very, very close to buying an Alfa Romeo, I want so much for these brands to live and thrive. I'm still holding out hope it will happen but it's taking a painfully long amount of time.
Quote from: Madman on February 05, 2016, 10:50:56 AM
I know the feeling. As someone who used to own a Fiat and came very, very close to buying an Alfa Romeo, I want so much for these brands to live and thrive. I'm still holding out hope it will happen but it's taking a painfully long amount of time.
You are a glutton for punishment in the interest of contrarianism though.... most people won't put up with this horseshit to feel like they are different.
If the 147/156 GTA are any indication, this thing will be a nightmare to own. I have an EVO buyer's guide I bought a few years ago, and those things were problematic AF. I wouldn't touch an Alfa with a 10 foot pole.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 05, 2016, 01:44:54 PM
You are a glutton for punishment in the interest of contrarianism though.... most people won't put up with this horseshit to feel like they are different.
If the 147/156 GTA are any indication, this thing will be a nightmare to own. I have an EVO buyer's guide I bought a few years ago, and those things were problematic AF. I wouldn't touch an Alfa with a 10 foot pole.
Would you touch a Ferrari? How about a Lamborghini? They are the most unreliable cars you can buy. High strung engines that need constant service, and timing and top end overhauls well before 100,000 miles. In buying a unique car, you have to accept that you aren't buying a plebeian mainstreamer. I love cars that have charm and character, as well as a real, romantic history. Real enthusiasts understand this.
Quote from: Rockraven on February 05, 2016, 07:01:55 PM
Would you touch a Ferrari? How about a Lamborghini? They are the most unreliable cars you can buy. High strung engines that need constant service, and timing and top end overhauls well before 100,000 miles. In buying a unique car, you have to accept that you aren't buying a plebeian mainstreamer. I love cars that have charm and character, as well as a real, romantic history. Real enthusiasts understand this.
If I could afford a Ferrari or Lambo, I'd try to make it a point to be involved in or at least actively observe the services, just for the hell of it if they let me. Then I'd know stuff.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 06, 2016, 01:35:40 AM
If I could afford a Ferrari or Lambo, I'd try to make it a point to be involved in or at least actively observe the services, just for the hell of it if they let me. Then I'd know stuff.
The Ferrari market is weird as fuck. The idea that an owner might have changed his own oil or installed tires other than through the dealership is going to drag down the value like an anchor. Ferrari owners are convinced their cars are so super special that nobody but an actual Italian having a seance with Enzo himself is qualified to work on them.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 06, 2016, 07:53:04 AM
The Ferrari market is weird as fuck. The idea that an owner might have changed his own oil or installed tires other than through the dealership is going to drag down the value like an anchor. Ferrari owners are convinced their cars are so super special that nobody but an actual Italian having a seance with Enzo himself is qualified to work on them.
I think Ferrari dealers use tire air imported from Italy. It makes sense because the cars were designed and built to handle properly on Italian air.
Quote from: Rockraven on February 05, 2016, 07:01:55 PM
Would you touch a Ferrari? How about a Lamborghini? They are the most unreliable cars you can buy. High strung engines that need constant service, and timing and top end overhauls well before 100,000 miles. In buying a unique car, you have to accept that you aren't buying a plebeian mainstreamer. I love cars that have charm and character, as well as a real, romantic history. Real enthusiasts understand this.
In his defense, there is a difference in expectation for a daily driver and an exotic.
But I don't think that would stop me from owning an Alfa or Fiat (within the warranty period, at least).
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 06, 2016, 07:53:04 AM
The Ferrari market is weird as fuck. The idea that an owner might have changed his own oil or installed tires other than through the dealership is going to drag down the value like an anchor. Ferrari owners are convinced their cars are so super special that nobody but an actual Italian having a seance with Enzo himself is qualified to work on them.
Would probably be fairly irrelevant to me...I like to hold onto nice things for as long as I can. If I could afford a Ferrari, I'd be keeping it forever.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 06, 2016, 11:29:06 AM
Would probably be fairly irrelevant to me...I like to hold onto nice things for as long as I can. If I could afford a Ferrari, I'd be keeping it forever.
Make sure it's one worth keeping forever; not like these computerized new ones.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8T7vZaOw--/18n51y5g5zzbwjpg.jpg)
Quote from: Rockraven on February 05, 2016, 07:01:55 PM
Would you touch a Ferrari? How about a Lamborghini? They are the most unreliable cars you can buy. High strung engines that need constant service, and timing and top end overhauls well before 100,000 miles. In buying a unique car, you have to accept that you aren't buying a plebeian mainstreamer. I love cars that have charm and character, as well as a real, romantic history. Real enthusiasts understand this.
If I want something unique I will just build it, or get something actually unique for the US like an Ariel Atom. There is no reason why a modern exotic car should require maintenance like a 40 year old Countach.
Quote from: Raza on February 06, 2016, 12:52:42 PM
Make sure it's one worth keeping forever; not like these computerized new ones.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--8T7vZaOw--/18n51y5g5zzbwjpg.jpg)
The good Ferraris came well after the ones like this went out of production. F355-F430 era was Ferrari's peak, with some sprinklings of greatness (330 P4, F40, 458 Speciale) peppering the ends.
365 GTB was less than great and like all others from that time a nightmare to own. Remove the brand allure and Ferrari made some really less than good cars.
I increasingly feel like we look back at the classics with rose-colored glasses. Watched a 5th Gear segment where they compared the MkI GTI, original Audi Quattro Coupe, and AMG E55 to current, non-performance variants of their descendants (Golf diesel, A5 diesel, and E250 diesel). The new Golf, despite weighing ~1000 lbs more and having less power/weight absolutely obliterated the original GTI in a gymkhana type of event. The new Merc came damn close to matching the E55 in a 0-70-0 drag race despite more weight at 150 less hp. The A5 (again, much heavier and less powerful than its predecessor) was a driver error away from besting the old Quattro in a 2-lap race around Rockingham (led half the race and finished right on its tail). That's not to mention the newer cars being vastly more comfortable and reliable than their forebears. And the newer cars were generally considered better from a driver's perspective as well.
Quote from: MX793 on February 06, 2016, 01:09:52 PM
I increasingly feel like we look back at the classics with rose-colored glasses. Watched a 5th Gear segment where they compared the MkI GTI, original Audi Quattro Coupe, and AMG E55 to current, non-performance variants of their descendants (Golf diesel, A5 diesel, and E250 diesel). The new Golf, despite weighing ~1000 lbs more and having less power/weight absolutely obliterated the original GTI in a gymkhana type of event. The new Merc came damn close to matching the E55 in a 0-70-0 drag race despite more weight at 150 less hp. The A5 (again, much heavier and less powerful than its predecessor) was a driver error away from besting the old Quattro in a 2-lap race around Rockingham (led half the race and finished right on its tail). That's not to mention the newer cars being vastly more comfortable and reliable than their forebears. And the newer cars were generally considered better from a driver's perspective as well.
But
character, H&H, nostalgia, fiddling about, etc.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 06, 2016, 01:17:10 PM
But character, H&H, nostalgia, fiddling about, etc.
Ehh, I suppose. But even outside of bench racing specs, there are some appreciable differences. OK, modern EPS kind of sucks, but it's getting better. Even still though, it's way better than the worm & pinion or recirculating ball type racks that were in old ass cars. The gear change on a lot of those cars was slow, vague and awful. And again I think bench racing is a bit silly but a modern car in the performance realm of something like a 365 GTB can be most exerent. A base Boxster will be just as fast, make good noise and require effort to make pace, but won't have a shitty interface and body controls. Theres nothing "characterful" or "nostalgic" about vague slow steering or slow crunchy gearboxes....
Even as someone with an old car, I'll say that character gets old. Sometimes I wish I had something more modern. A modern platform without the complicated electronics and emissions and crash standards would be perfection.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 06, 2016, 01:01:35 PM
The good Ferraris came well after the ones like this went out of production. F355-F430 era was Ferrari's peak, with some sprinklings of greatness (330 P4, F40, 458 Speciale) peppering the ends.
365 GTB was less than great and like all others from that time a nightmare to own. Remove the brand allure and Ferrari made some really less than good cars.
I'll give you the cars you mentioned (except for the 458). And yes, many of Ferrari's cars were pretty crap objectively. But look at the 365 and tell me it's not so beautiful you wouldn't put up with it.
Its beautiful for sure. But the way a car drives is more important than how it looks as far as what drives me to want to own one....
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 06, 2016, 11:29:06 AM
Would probably be fairly irrelevant to me...I like to hold onto nice things for as long as I can. If I could afford a Ferrari, I'd be keeping it forever.
See Raza's post above.
It's easy to say that; and hell, I get it. But it's quite another to be cavalier with your quarter million dollar toy when you write the check.
Another delay? Another one? :confused:
How does a car fail all the crash tests when they run the cars through simulated crash testing before anything is ever built???
Because FCA :lol:
Especially when the entire industry should already know what it takes to pass the tests. I would think the required materials and design is well known by now.
Per Road and Track:
Update, 2/5/15/ 11:55AM: An Alfa Romeo spokesperson reached by Road & Track completely denies the validity of the Automotive News report referenced above, calling it "not accurate or representative at all." The spokesperson affirmed that FCA is still on-track to begin production for the U.S. market Alfa Romeo Giulia in "late 2nd quarter 2016," beginning with the high-performance QV variant with more mainstream models to follow after that.
Yeah, sounds like utter bullshit to me.
Ive finally seen pics of these cars in lower trims.
It looks nice, I'm warming up to it.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7LfRINboibk/VtZKSURRvzI/AAAAAAASGQo/O0SXfXcbIQk/s1600/Alfa-Giulia3.jpg)
Quote from: 2o6 on May 13, 2016, 01:31:11 PM
Ive finally seen pics of these cars in lower trims.
It looks nice, I'm warming up to it.
(http://[/https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7LfRINboibk/VtZKSURRvzI/AAAAAAASGQo/O0SXfXcbIQk/s1600/Alfa-Giulia3.jpg)
Agreed, the lower level versions look very nice. This was my biggest concern was that only the QV version would be so nice looking.
That being said I have trouble seeing myself buy this over an ATS or 3-series, and frankly I feel like getting anything less than the highest performance version would be a step down from what I already drive.
I love it. Want, want, want. AWD with a manual, please, Alfa!
I don't buy that they failed all crash tests and it will only take 6 months to fix the problems.
Those are MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR issues which would force them to do TONS of re-engineering. I'm thinking a year or more.
(( Unless they failed the tests a while back, fairly early on in the design, and they rushed and are only 6 months behind still))
Quote from: Raza on May 13, 2016, 02:27:49 PM
I love it. Want, want, want. AWD with a manual, please, Alfa!
Supposedly the QV will be available with that spec
Manual only, iirc
FCA doesn't have the money to develop a decent DCT
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 18, 2016, 05:55:20 AM
FCA doesn't have the money to develop a decent DCT
What is Ferrari using?
For the first time since the Alfa 156, the Italien federal police have some stylish sets of wheels again. Looks like the fiscal crisis in Italy is over, since the seem to have gotten the 510hp version. Avanti! Avanti! :dance:
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-5dcaa1ec-946485.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-e1e7028b-946488.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-d0a1383-946492.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-5b1982fc-946493.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-c686493c-946494.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-166d38-946495.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-7f6701e0-946496.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 18, 2016, 06:53:24 AM
Getrag
Where do you think VW, Porsche, Mitsubishi, Ford, and Nissan get their DCT's from?
Hint: none of them developed those gearboxes in-house. The were all developed/sourced from companies like Getrag, BorgWarner, and ZF
Quote from: Galaxy on May 18, 2016, 07:08:02 AM
For the first time since the Alfa 156, the Italien federal police have some stylish sets of wheels again. Looks like the fiscal crisis in Italy is over, since the seem to have gotten the 510hp version. Avanti! Avanti!
I've always been curious on if these departments that buy high powered sports cars spend any amount of time training the officers to use them. A 510hp anything is a lot to handle.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I read somewhere that the RHD cars will be Auto only.
Quote from: MX793 on May 18, 2016, 07:36:01 AM
Where do you think VW, Porsche, Mitsubishi, Ford, and Nissan get their DCT's from?
Hint: none of them developed those gearboxes in-house. The were all developed/sourced from companies like Getrag, BorgWarner, and ZF
The VW DSGs were mostly developed in house by the same team. Everything to do with gears, and shafts, are designed and produced internally. The bearings are bought from external suppliers. The hydraulics are from BorgWarner. For the 6 speed the clutch itself is from BorgWarner, for the 7 speed it is LuK. The controllers and sensors are from Temic.
Quote from: Galaxy on May 18, 2016, 08:50:45 AM
The VW DSGs were mostly developed in house by the same team. Everything to do with gears, and shafts, are designed and produced internally. The bearings are bought from external suppliers. The hydraulics are from BorgWarner. For the 6 speed the clutch itself is from BorgWarner, for the 7 speed it is LuK. The controllers and sensors are from Temic.
DSG was designed/developed by BorgWarner and licensed to VW (allowing VW to actually make the parts in house).
Quote from: MX793 on May 18, 2016, 09:12:47 AM
DSG was designed/developed by BorgWarner and licensed to VW (allowing VW to actually make the parts in house).
It was not. VW did had to license certain BorgWarner patents, but they had an entire developments team working on the thing. Which is also why VW is footing the bill for the DSG failures instead of passing it onto BorgWarner. What BorgWarner created, and VW bought/ is buying is the following:
https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Drivetrain/products/Pages/DualTronic%20Clutch%20System.aspx (https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Drivetrain/products/Pages/DualTronic%20Clutch%20System.aspx)
Quote from: Galaxy on May 18, 2016, 07:08:02 AM
For the first time since the Alfa 156, the Italien federal police have some stylish sets of wheels again. Looks like the fiscal crisis in Italy is over, since the seem to have gotten the 510hp version. Avanti! Avanti! :dance:
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-5dcaa1ec-946485.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-e1e7028b-946488.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-d0a1383-946492.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-5b1982fc-946493.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-c686493c-946494.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-166d38-946495.jpg)
(http://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Alfa-Romeo-Giulia-Carabinieri-Polizei-fotoshowBig-7f6701e0-946496.jpg)
Damn. I'm putting pennies in a jar now. Want, want, want.
EVO is digging it.... says the 8AT is a better companion than the vague/rubbery/mediocre manual
*IB4EVOdoesn'tmatter*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE)
Quote from: Galaxy on May 18, 2016, 11:56:33 AM
It was not. VW did had to license certain BorgWarner patents, but they had an entire developments team working on the thing. Which is also why VW is footing the bill for the DSG failures instead of passing it onto BorgWarner. What BorgWarner created, and VW bought/ is buying is the following:
https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Drivetrain/products/Pages/DualTronic%20Clutch%20System.aspx (https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Drivetrain/products/Pages/DualTronic%20Clutch%20System.aspx)
QuoteThe gearbox was developed by BorgWarner and built by the VW Group's Kassel factory located in the heart of Germany.
Read more: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/volkswagen-group-s-dsg-gearbox-explained-88928.html#ixzz493OJ6gV5 (http://www.autoevolution.com/news/volkswagen-group-s-dsg-gearbox-explained-88928.html#ixzz493OJ6gV5)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 18, 2016, 04:19:26 PM
EVO is digging it.... says the 8AT is a better companion than the vague/rubbery/mediocre manual
*IB4EVOdoesn'tmatter*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFBx8lMLIE)
Manual is always better.
Quote from: MX793 on May 18, 2016, 05:38:48 PM
Note that BorgWarner on their history page makes no mention of that. They talk about DualTronic.
https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Company/History/default.aspx (https://www.borgwarner.com/en/Company/History/default.aspx)
Quote from: Raza on May 18, 2016, 09:17:27 PM
Manual is always better.
Except when it isn't (see: Nissan)
Shmee150 tries the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r2krO2mREU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r2krO2mREU)
If I never have to see a Shthmee150 video again, my life will be better for it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2016, 09:51:01 AM
If I never have to see a Shthmee150 video again, my life will be better for it.
I don't follow him. I came across this video by chance.
What don't you like about him?
Quote from: 2o6 on May 18, 2016, 08:34:10 AM
I read somewhere that the RHD cars will be Auto only.
Yep. RHD cars will be A/T only.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on May 23, 2016, 10:18:36 AM
I don't follow him. I came across this video by chance.
What don't you like about him?
He takes cars that are supposed to be exciting and makes them boring.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 23, 2016, 10:56:38 AM
He takes cars that are supposed to be exciting and makes them boring.
How does he do that? :lol:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-first-drive-review (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-first-drive-review)
Turbo lag, crappy manual (according to EVO), Italian build quality. These things better be priced with a hell of a discount, with hella loaners on hand.
How Autobild imagines the upcoming Alfa Romeo GT.
(http://s33.postimg.org/6bjh5ssbz/wp_ss_20160527_0001.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 28, 2016, 08:54:15 AM
Turbo lag, crappy manual (according to EVO), Italian build quality. These things better be priced with a hell of a discount, with hella loaners on hand.
First line in the closing paragraph:
"This car is impressive."
Quote from: Submariner on May 31, 2016, 09:47:19 AM
First line in the closing paragraph:
"This car is impressive."
Yep, on a first drive around an Italian test track. The quality issues don't bode well for it from a real world ownership experience. The production Ghibli had many of the same issues.