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Auto Talk => Head to Head => Topic started by: cawimmer430 on May 17, 2017, 08:12:31 AM

Title: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: cawimmer430 on May 17, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
Would you still take the manual transmission vehicle over an automatic transmission-equipped model if the manual car had an annoying column-mounted manual transmission?

Serious question. I've tried them before in a Mitsubishi L300 Van and although it's clearly a question of getting used to it, I vastly prefer the floor/center console manual transmission layout.


And yes, the photo below shows a Mercedes-Benz W124 E-Class with a column-mounted manual transmission shifter!!! They must have sold like 12 of them!  :tounge:

(http://www.nast-sonderfahrzeuge.de/MB-Exotenforum/img/uploaded/image91878.jpg)
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: FoMoJo on May 17, 2017, 08:20:51 AM
Column shifters are just not cool.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: SJ_GTI on May 17, 2017, 08:27:19 AM
Quote from: FoMoJo on May 17, 2017, 08:20:51 AM
Column shifters are just not cool.

+1

Don't like them as automatics, can't imagine liking it as a manual.

To answer the question though I guess I'd have to try it to be sure, but I think I'd probably just prefer a paddle shifted automatic at that point.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: cawimmer430 on May 17, 2017, 08:28:55 AM
Quote from: FoMoJo on May 17, 2017, 08:20:51 AM
Column shifters are just not cool.

On A/T cars they don't bother me much, but a manual transmission column shift is annoying. The Mitsubishi L300 Van I drove had one of those and I just didn't like it.

(https://i.wheelsage.org/image/format/picture/picture-gallery-full/m/mitsubishi/l300/mitsubishi_l300_7.jpg)
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 17, 2017, 08:39:52 AM
If a column shifter could be made that didn't feel like it was connected to the gears through an intricate system of rubber bands, it might be OK.

Never drove one that was any decent at all though.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: shp4man on May 17, 2017, 08:56:36 AM
When three on the tree was common in the 50s, the Ford's had the best shifter feel.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: MX793 on May 17, 2017, 09:05:19 AM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 17, 2017, 08:39:52 AM
If a column shifter could be made that didn't feel like it was connected to the gears through an intricate system of rubber bands, it might be OK.

Never drove one that was any decent at all though.

This.  If the shift linkage provided positive feel and precise action, I wouldn't mind too much.  I don't believe any column shift has ever provided that.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: cawimmer430 on May 17, 2017, 12:01:48 PM
Plus, try speed-shifting on a column shift manual!  :tounge:
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Cookie Monster on May 17, 2017, 12:59:11 PM
I'd rather have the column shift manual.

I've been driving the Mdx for the past 3 days and I'm going crazy.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: veeman on May 17, 2017, 01:01:39 PM
The old Indian Ambassadors (based on Morris Oxford Series 111) and Premier Padmini had column manual shifters. Never drove one. 
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: FoMoJo on May 17, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Quote from: cawimmer430 on May 17, 2017, 12:01:48 PM
Plus, try speed-shifting on a column shift manual!  :tounge:
I've tried.  1st to 2nd is a real bitch.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: CALL_911 on May 17, 2017, 03:34:46 PM
You know I thought I wouldn't like a manual in a big comfy cruiser. But after driving a pretty big, cushy Passat wagon around for the past few days, I would totally get a manual in a bigger car too
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 17, 2017, 04:00:30 PM
Quote from: CALL_911 on May 17, 2017, 03:34:46 PM
You know I thought I wouldn't like a manual in a big comfy cruiser. But after driving a pretty big, cushy Passat wagon around for the past few days, I would totally get a manual in a bigger car too

When the transmission goes on the wagon, it's getting a five speed from an F-150.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: 93JC on May 17, 2017, 05:25:07 PM
Keep the 2-ft-long shifter too. :lol:
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: shp4man on May 17, 2017, 05:44:17 PM
With an 8-ball gearshift knob!  :ohyeah: :lol:
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Vinsanity on May 17, 2017, 07:04:17 PM
Just wondering, what was the reason for the column shifter on that W124? Front-row bench seating like in an old school Caddy? My car has the column shifter seemingly to make room for the COMAND controls, but that's obviously not the case with that W124.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Soup DeVille on May 17, 2017, 07:06:25 PM
Quote from: 93JC on May 17, 2017, 05:25:07 PM
Keep the 2-ft-long shifter too. :lol:

The Panther cars I've seen hat have done this largely have, or have shortened it only slightly.

None afaik have been 1st gen wagons.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: CaminoRacer on May 17, 2017, 09:33:16 PM
Quote from: shp4man on May 17, 2017, 05:44:17 PM
With an 8-ball gearshift knob!  :ohyeah: :lol:

(http://i.imgur.com/siByUFE.jpg)
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: cawimmer430 on May 18, 2017, 04:46:04 AM
Quote from: Vinsanity on May 17, 2017, 07:04:17 PM
Just wondering, what was the reason for the column shifter on that W124? Front-row bench seating like in an old school Caddy? My car has the column shifter seemingly to make room for the COMAND controls, but that's obviously not the case with that W124.

It's a relic from the old days since every "E-Class" prior to the W124 (W123, W114/W115 and W120 [W120 was only available with a column shift manual transmission]) had a column shifter or column shifter option (in the W114/W115 and W123 you could also specify column shift automatic transmission)..

Manual column shifters declined in popularity with the W114/W115 and finally the W123. It ultimately found its demise in the W124 as the successor W210 was not offered with a column shift manual.

I suppose at Mercedes they offered it on the W124 for the few diehards out there who wanted it, but as you can imagine it probably was not a very popular option. These days these column shift manual W124s must be rare and are probably quite prized just because of this wacky feature.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: 12,000 RPM on May 18, 2017, 06:36:56 AM
No way would I do a column shifted manual. Hell I passed on the manual version of my G because the shift quality is awful. I'd rather have something like the ZF8 or even the Nissan CVT.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: BimmerM3 on May 18, 2017, 09:11:46 AM
They sold the same car with both center console and column shifter options? That seems odd lol.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: cawimmer430 on May 18, 2017, 09:55:58 AM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on May 18, 2017, 09:11:46 AM
They sold the same car with both center console and column shifter options? That seems odd lol.

See my response to Vinsanity.  :ohyeah:


W123 had it...

(http://up.picr.de/9332516lkf.jpg)


W114/W115 had it...

(http://www.mb-w115.de/galerie/innen/cockpit/cockpit_200_01.jpg)


W120 had it...

(http://www.classics-for-lifetime.de/uploads/MB%20180%20fx.jpg)
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: 93JC on May 18, 2017, 04:23:35 PM
Quote from: BimmerM3 on May 18, 2017, 09:11:46 AM
They sold the same car with both center console and column shifter options? That seems odd lol.

Up until the '70s many American cars came with one or the other depending on trim. Often the base trims got a 3-speed on the column and higher trims got a 4-speed on the floor. Even into the '90s both could be had in the same car. E.g. my old Dodge Spirit was a 4-speed automatic on the console because it was an ES V6; base model four-cylinders with an automatic (3-speed) had it on the column.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Vinsanity on May 18, 2017, 11:22:23 PM
Ha, the dashboard of that W123 looks like it can house a COMAND screen in that upper portion
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: cawimmer430 on May 19, 2017, 05:37:50 AM
Quote from: Vinsanity on May 18, 2017, 11:22:23 PM
Ha, the dashboard of that W123 looks like it can house a COMAND screen in that upper portion

It's a taxi-spec car. Some W123 taxis had this special cabin which was offered by Mercedes. It included the taxameter which told the passengers how long they've been riding in the car and the cost of the ride.  :ohyeah:

(https://s13.postimg.org/qxamah1zb/289.jpg)

(https://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/148/5511/28312923/123er-taxi-noch-heute-ab-und-zu-im-einsatz-9181581983280962584.jpg)
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: 12,000 RPM on May 19, 2017, 12:10:19 PM
Quote from: Vinsanity on May 18, 2017, 11:22:23 PM
Ha, the dashboard of that W123 looks like it can house a COMAND screen in that upper portion

You've been conditioned :lol:
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: ChrisV on November 29, 2017, 09:55:01 AM
My first car ('62 Mercury comet) had a 3 on the tree column mounted manual trans. Much like this:

(https://cdn1.mecum.com/auctions/ca0816/ca0816-244171/images/ca0816-244171_5@2x.jpg?1468015603000)

it was no Honda for shift speed or smoothness, but it was a great car to learn manual shifting on.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Submariner on November 29, 2017, 10:30:20 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 19, 2017, 12:10:19 PM
You've been conditioned :lol:

:lol:
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Laconian on November 29, 2017, 11:47:24 AM
I want to try a column shifter at least once in my life.

I'd also like to try the weird shifters that came out before auto manufacturers standardized on the "H" layout, like the Model T.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: Soup DeVille on November 29, 2017, 11:57:25 AM
Quote from: Laconian on November 29, 2017, 11:47:24 AM
I want to try a column shifter at least once in my life.

I'd also like to try the weird shifters that came out before auto manufacturers standardized on the "H" layout, like the Model T.

I got to try both a model T and a 1916 Cadillac a few years ago.

Thank god those are slow cars.
Title: Re: Question for the Diehard Manual Transmission Crowd
Post by: FoMoJo on November 29, 2017, 11:58:28 AM
It seemed a bit odd that column shifters were regarded as an innovation at the time.  Prior to then, most cars had shift levers that sprung up from the floor; usually a bent metal rod about 3 feet long.  It tended to get in the way of anyone sitting in the middle of the front bench seat.  The first car I drove, though very young and only once, had a 3 speed manual with a shift lever, more of a branch than a stick.  I remember it being quite wobbly and a long reach from 1st to 2nd gear.