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Them saying that a two child family may be too large for the Mazda is laughable, but w/e it still won
How the fuck is Ann Arbor northern Michigan? C&D is based in AA. :wtf:
Cute, you took a freeway exit to a campground. :rolleyes:
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 29, 2017, 09:54:31 PM
How the fuck is Ann Arbor northern Michigan? C&D is based in AA. :wtf:
Cute, you took a freeway exit to a campground. :rolleyes:
They were making fun of people who rationalize "needing" a "crossover" for family excursions like this. They tested them exactly how a typical owner would. :huh:
Jesus, the Acadia and Pilot are hot rods.
Still can't imagine paying $46k for a 250hp turbo 4 however.
I want to like the Pilot the best out of these, but the lack of shifter and awful AT would probably be a deal breaker. I'd probably just go for a 4Runner if I had to buy in the mid-size SUV/CUV class.
These prices are crazy. A bunch of mainstream SUVs around the 50K mark? If you told VW fifteen years ago that they'd be able to sell SUVs for that much, they never would have made the Phaeton.
I don't understand why people don't just get minivans. They drive better and are way more functional. My brother's Sienna is great...best tailgating vehicle we have ever used IMHO. Tons of space plus is drives so smooth, yet handles better than any SUV or pickup I have ever driven (including my other brother's recently purchased Explorer).
They gave to the CX-9, although they said it sucked at being a 7 seater crossover :wtf:
Quote from: GoCougs on June 29, 2017, 10:35:47 PM
Jesus, the Acadia and Pilot are hot rods.
I was going to say, "well you could at least get away from them on an on/off ramp"
But 0.85g for the Acadia... 350Z on OEM tires did 0.87 :facepalm: A competent + determined driver in one of these, empty, could give "legit" performance cars a hassle
Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 30, 2017, 06:15:06 AM
I don't understand why people don't just get minivans. They drive better and are way more functional. My brother's Sienna is great...best tailgating vehicle we have ever used IMHO. Tons of space plus is drives so smooth, yet handles better than any SUV or pickup I have ever driven (including my other brother's recently purchased Explorer).
"Manliness"
"I don't want to be a soccer mom"
"too much common sense for me"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 30, 2017, 07:19:18 AM
I was going to say, "well you could at least get away from them on an on/off ramp"
But 0.85g for the Acadia... 350Z on OEM tires did 0.87 :facepalm: A competent + determined driver in one of these, empty, could give "legit" performance cars a hassle
Most drivers would not get the thing to sway that much. But I regularly catch/dust people on the on/off ramp. It cracks me up as they blow by me on the straights because I "only" do 5-7mph over- and I don't even push the curves that much.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 30, 2017, 06:49:22 AM
They gave to the CX-9, although they said it sucked at being a 7 seater crossover :wtf:
As they wrote: "Yes, we awarded the win to the three-row SUV with the least amount of cargo space and the best handling. But for buyers who might use the third row only occasionally, the CX-9's moderate size is no demerit." You don't have to agree with the decision, but the logic is valid and clearly explained.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 30, 2017, 06:15:06 AM
I don't understand why people don't just get minivans. They drive better and are way more functional. My brother's Sienna is great...best tailgating vehicle we have ever used IMHO. Tons of space plus is drives so smooth, yet handles better than any SUV or pickup I have ever driven (including my other brother's recently purchased Explorer).
The same reason people buy cramped sports sedans with coupe like styling, large diameter wheels with low profile tires which are very prone to damage from pot holes, and high performance engines requiring high octane expensive gas - all to commute 20 miles in congested traffic barely breaking 55 mph on ruler straight highways.
Quote from: ifcar on June 30, 2017, 07:40:09 AM
As they wrote: "Yes, we awarded the win to the three-row SUV with the least amount of cargo space and the best handling. But for buyers who might use the third row only occasionally, the CX-9's moderate size is no demerit." You don't have to agree with the decision, but the logic is valid and clearly explained.
It's shitty logic.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 30, 2017, 07:19:18 AM
I was going to say, "well you could at least get away from them on an on/off ramp"
But 0.85g for the Acadia... 350Z on OEM tires did 0.87 :facepalm: A competent + determined driver in one of these, empty, could give "legit" performance cars a hassle
Tire tech has come a long way in ~15 years. C&D got .87g out of a regular Fusion sedan on all-seasons, and that was limited by undefeatable stability control. Everyone is shifting upwards in the scale. Regular cars that used to get .78-.82g are moving up to the .82-.87g range. Performance cars that used to get mid to high .8s on the skidpad are now in the .9s.
Mazda is on a roll. It is for driving dynamics in its segment what BMW used to be in theirs years ago.
Having said that, if I went 7 seater I'd probably value the space more and get something else.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 30, 2017, 08:21:14 AM
No, it isn't.
I guess in the context of C&D's sports oriented testing, but I don't understand the concept of buying a big vehicle that's tight inside. The Pilot and others have far more room inside than the Mazda. It's basically the same size outside as the others in the test, but has far less interior room. What's the point, especially when this type of vehicle is meant to haul families and their things?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 30, 2017, 06:15:06 AM
I don't understand why people don't just get minivans. They drive better and are way more functional. My brother's Sienna is great...best tailgating vehicle we have ever used IMHO. Tons of space plus is drives so smooth, yet handles better than any SUV or pickup I have ever driven (including my other brother's recently purchased Explorer).
They're just so....pathetic looking. I've never seen a man driving a minivan who didn't look defeated by it. Hell, not even women seem so thrilled about them. It's a complete capitulation to practicality; it's a car that signifies the surrender of your entire life to the lives of your soulsucking children. It's a car that alerts people that yeah, you're probably sticky, you don't know why, and it wasn't for a fun reason. It says that the person you were for the first ~25-30 years of your life is dead now, and all you're doing now is waiting for your new life to come to a drooling, diaper-wearing end in some retirement home while the kids you killed your 30 year old self for go live their lives and continue the cycle of life, death, new life, and waiting to die.
Quote from: Raza on June 30, 2017, 09:32:19 AM
They're just so....pathetic looking. I've never seen a man driving a minivan who didn't look defeated by it. Hell, not even women seem so thrilled about them. It's a complete capitulation to practicality; it's a car that signifies the surrender of your entire life to the lives of your soulsucking children. It's a car that alerts people that yeah, you're probably sticky, you don't know why, and it wasn't for a fun reason. It says that the person you were for the first ~25-30 years of your life is dead now, and all you're doing now is waiting for your new life to come to a drooling, diaper-wearing end in some retirement home while the kids you killed your 30 year old self for go live their lives and continue the cycle of life, death, new life, and waiting to die.
Never leave the Spin. Please.
Quote from: 2o6 on June 30, 2017, 09:30:43 AM
I guess in the context of C&D's sports oriented testing, but I don't understand the concept of buying a big vehicle that's tight inside. The Pilot and others have far more room inside than the Mazda. It's basically the same size outside as the others in the test, but has far less interior room. What's the point, especially when this type of vehicle is meant to haul families and their things?
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I haven't driven any of these cars, much less all of them for comparison. C&D preferred the Mazda and clearly explained why, so I don't really have a problem with that.
Anyone who's using these comparisons to actually shop for a vehicle should be reading the full article to get the nuanced opinions anyway, and reevaluate based on that.
If someone actually bought a CX-9 based solely on C&D's rankings without actually reading the article and comparison shopping themselves, and goes on to complain that the CX-9 isn't big enough, then I don't have much sympathy for them.
Quote from: Raza on June 30, 2017, 09:32:19 AM
They're just so....pathetic looking. I've never seen a man driving a minivan who didn't look defeated by it. Hell, not even women seem so thrilled about them. It's a complete capitulation to practicality; it's a car that signifies the surrender of your entire life to the lives of your soulsucking children. It's a car that alerts people that yeah, you're probably sticky, you don't know why, and it wasn't for a fun reason. It says that the person you were for the first ~25-30 years of your life is dead now, and all you're doing now is waiting for your new life to come to a drooling, diaper-wearing end in some retirement home while the kids you killed your 30 year old self for go live their lives and continue the cycle of life, death, new life, and waiting to die.
:lol:
Although that entire post is really just projecting your own opinions about family life onto people who may or may not actually like that life.
Quote from: Raza on June 30, 2017, 09:32:19 AM
They're just so....pathetic looking. I've never seen a man driving a minivan who didn't look defeated by it. Hell, not even women seem so thrilled about them. It's a complete capitulation to practicality; it's a car that signifies the surrender of your entire life to the lives of your soulsucking children. It's a car that alerts people that yeah, you're probably sticky, you don't know why, and it wasn't for a fun reason. It says that the person you were for the first ~25-30 years of your life is dead now, and all you're doing now is waiting for your new life to come to a drooling, diaper-wearing end in some retirement home while the kids you killed your 30 year old self for go live their lives and continue the cycle of life, death, new life, and waiting to die.
I detail for a guy who loves his Town & Country. He uses it like a utility vehicle.
Quote from: Raza on June 30, 2017, 09:32:19 AM
They're just so....pathetic looking. I've never seen a man driving a minivan who didn't look defeated by it. Hell, not even women seem so thrilled about them. It's a complete capitulation to practicality; it's a car that signifies the surrender of your entire life to the lives of your soulsucking children. It's a car that alerts people that yeah, you're probably sticky, you don't know why, and it wasn't for a fun reason. It says that the person you were for the first ~25-30 years of your life is dead now, and all you're doing now is waiting for your new life to come to a drooling, diaper-wearing end in some retirement home while the kids you killed your 30 year old self for go live their lives and continue the cycle of life, death, new life, and waiting to die.
:lol: :golfclap:
I laugh, but when a middle age rolls up to work in a beat to hell Town and Country, my impressions aren't too far off from what you just said.
I actually if anything have a little extra respect for someone who can totally throw giving a shit about image to the wind and rock the minivan. I don't think I could do it, though.
I think I could do it, but it would have to be a newer Odyssey or Sienna or something. An old, beat to hell Town and Country is just like waving the white flag of life.
Quote from: Lebowski on June 30, 2017, 12:11:39 PM
I actually if anything have a little extra respect for someone who can totally throw giving a shit about image to the wind and rock the minivan. I don't think I could do it, though.
I'd absolutely do it if I really needed the space and could get away with low ground clearance.
I think I could do a Pacifica.
FWIW I really like minivans
#coilovernation it
(http://i.imgur.com/2DvmqOs.png)
Quote from: MX793 on June 30, 2017, 09:11:17 AM
Tire tech has come a long way in ~15 years. C&D got .87g out of a regular Fusion sedan on all-seasons, and that was limited by undefeatable stability control. Everyone is shifting upwards in the scale. Regular cars that used to get .78-.82g are moving up to the .82-.87g range. Performance cars that used to get mid to high .8s on the skidpad are now in the .9s.
This is true. I wonder what old cars could do on the Ring on new tires. Times from 10-20 years ago don't really mean anything anymore.
Holy shitty line spacing, Batman. :mask:
(https://i.imgsafe.org/77ef3e1ede.jpg)
Also: isn't it likeable instead of "likable"?
Quote from: MrH on June 30, 2017, 01:50:52 PM
I think I could do it, but it would have to be a newer Odyssey or Sienna or something. An old, beat to hell Town and Country is just like waving the white flag of life.
I know I
could do it, but I'm not sure I actually would do it. I have suggested it to my girlfriend as her vehicle for down the road, and she has basically said "no fucking way".
I've also figured we could just rent one for the one or two times a year we need one, like when we go on a road trip with all of us including the dogs + luggage. In the past the 4Runner has sufficed for that role, but that will change in about a week.
Without the dogs, the 4runner or something say CX9 sized should suffice fine for a family trip w/ 2 kids IMO.
Why wasn't the Highlander included, is it not considered in this class?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 30, 2017, 07:19:18 AM
I was going to say, "well you could at least get away from them on an on/off ramp"
But 0.85g for the Acadia... 350Z on OEM tires did 0.87 :facepalm: A competent + determined driver in one of these, empty, could give "legit" performance cars a hassle
G-numbers can be misleading, especially when you're comparing them across different classes, vehicle types, etc...
No doubt this newest crop of SUVs are objectively better across the board than their predecessors, but the high G-numbers are a function of their heavy weight, large contact patches, and good rubber. It doesn't tell us anything about the way they behave in corners, their ability to handle transitions, and so on.
Relatively low g-rated cars smoke higher rated cars all the time.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on July 01, 2017, 08:57:52 AM
Also: isn't it likeable instead of "likable"?
Both are acceptable, but likable is the more common American usage.
Likable has always been a weird one. In my browser, likeable gets the red underline of "you spelled that wrong."
Quote from: Lebowski on July 01, 2017, 09:33:48 AMIn the past the 4Runner has sufficed for that role, but that will change in about a week.
:muffin: :muffin: :muffin: :muffin: :muffin:
I feel bad.... we don't bring our dogs anywhere.
Guess who shoved 2 bikes in the back of the vehicle, 2 bikes on the rack, and 4 people inside the other day??? :rockon:
Guess who put a fullsize bedframe in their vehicle? Full sheet of plywood? can carry 7 full-size people plus luggage??...
:rockon: :rockon:
Quote from: Lebowski on July 01, 2017, 09:33:48 AM
Why wasn't the Highlander included, is it not considered in this class?
Because it didn't win the last comparison, and hasn't had any major updates since then.
Quote from: Raza on June 30, 2017, 05:23:20 AM
These prices are crazy. A bunch of mainstream SUVs around the 50K mark? If you told VW fifteen years ago that they'd be able to sell SUVs for that much, they never would have made the Phaeton.
Huh? The Touareg was engineered almost at the same time as the Phaeton, which btw went on sale in Germany on 31 May 2002
Quote from: AltinD on July 03, 2017, 02:40:52 PM
Huh? The Touareg was engineered almost at the same time as the Phaeton, which btw went on sale in Germany on 31 May 2002
And this is down market from that for 50K!
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on July 01, 2017, 08:57:52 AM
Also: isn't it likeable instead of "likable"?
Yes, yes it is. You know English better than these pinche gringos.
Yeah the Touareg was solidly within the luxury class here.
Quote from: Raza on June 30, 2017, 09:32:19 AM
They're just so....pathetic looking. I've never seen a man driving a minivan who didn't look defeated by it. Hell, not even women seem so thrilled about them. It's a complete capitulation to practicality; it's a car that signifies the surrender of your entire life to the lives of your soulsucking children. It's a car that alerts people that yeah, you're probably sticky, you don't know why, and it wasn't for a fun reason. It says that the person you were for the first ~25-30 years of your life is dead now, and all you're doing now is waiting for your new life to come to a drooling, diaper-wearing end in some retirement home while the kids you killed your 30 year old self for go live their lives and continue the cycle of life, death, new life, and waiting to die.
:clap: :cheers:
Quote from: Raza on July 04, 2017, 07:39:59 AM
And this is down market from that for 50K!
Well $50K in '02 is roughly $69K now
Quote from: Raza on June 30, 2017, 09:32:19 AM
They're just so....pathetic looking. I've never seen a man driving a minivan who didn't look defeated by it. Hell, not even women seem so thrilled about them. It's a complete capitulation to practicality; it's a car that signifies the surrender of your entire life to the lives of your soulsucking children. It's a car that alerts people that yeah, you're probably sticky, you don't know why, and it wasn't for a fun reason. It says that the person you were for the first ~25-30 years of your life is dead now, and all you're doing now is waiting for your new life to come to a drooling, diaper-wearing end in some retirement home while the kids you killed your 30 year old self for go live their lives and continue the cycle of life, death, new life, and waiting to die.
Man, you REALLY care a lot about the image you project to complete strangers.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 04, 2017, 05:00:02 PM
Man, you REALLY care a lot about the image you project to complete strangers.
Everyone does.
Quote from: Raza on July 05, 2017, 03:32:52 PM
Everyone does.
Not to that extent.
If I cared about image, I wouldn't have bought the S2000. I specifically did NOT want to be seen as the young guy with too much money driving around in a fancy car to show off, which I'm certain is how a lot of people viewed me. But fuck those people - the S2k is awesome.
Likewise, if a minivan drove as good or better than the other vehicles that fit my needs, I'm not going to avoid buying one just because some stuck-up dude in a Z4 thinks I look pathetic. ;)
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 05, 2017, 03:43:55 PM
Not to that extent.
If I cared about image, I wouldn't have bought the S2000. I specifically did NOT want to be seen as the young guy with too much money driving around in a fancy car to show off, which I'm certain is how a lot of people viewed me. But fuck those people - the S2k is awesome.
Your statements are incongruous. "I don't care about image" and "I didn't want to project a certain image" are not the same thing. Sporty disparages image projection, but if past conversations are any indication, he certainly chooses his clothes very carefully--all part of image projection. Car, clothes, watch, hair, whatever; everyone cares about the image they project.
Quote
Likewise, if a minivan drove as good or better than the other vehicles that fit my needs, I'm not going to avoid buying one just because some stuck-up dude in a Z4 thinks I look pathetic. ;)
As well you shouldn't. Anyone who wants one is free to buy one. Never said no one should buy them. I don't recall advocating a law that says people shouldn't be allowed to buy minivans unless they sign a sworn statement affirming how pathetic they are. I'm not aware of any proposal to make publicly shame minivan buyers.
Quote from: Raza on July 05, 2017, 03:54:35 PM
Your statements are incongruous. "I don't care about image" and "I didn't want to project a certain image" are not the same thing. Sporty disparages image projection, but if past conversations are any indication, he certainly chooses his clothes very carefully--all part of image projection. Car, clothes, watch, hair, whatever; everyone cares about the image they project.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 05, 2017, 03:43:55 PM
Not to that extent.
I feel like the average consumer doesn't really care that much about how they are perceived driving a minivan. I thought SUV's mainly became popular to the average person because of the higher seating made it feel safer to drive?
Only reason I wouldn't get a minivan now is because they're all automatics. I'd definitely get a Previa or Mazda5 manual if I needed one, though.
Anecdotally, speaking as a thirty-something with friends who're popping out kids, there's a colossal stigma against minivans. Every friend I've had who has had a kid in the last couple years bought an SUV or crew-cab pickup. Minivans weren't even in consideration.
When the generation that grew up in the back seat of an SUV gets old enough to buy on their own, the mall special SUVs will have the same connotation as the minivan.
Hell, I have it now and didn't grow up in the back of one. There's no way ever I'll be caught dead owning an SUV.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 05, 2017, 03:56:51 PM
I don't think there's anything extreme or unusual about not wanting to drive a minivan--there's a multibillion dollar SUV market that exists because of it. It's about as extreme as wearing a jersey of your home team to watch a football game.
Quote from: Rich on July 05, 2017, 05:28:05 PM
When the generation that grew up in the back seat of an SUV gets old enough to buy on their own, the mall special SUVs will have the same connotation as the minivan.
Hell, I have it now and didn't grow up in the back of one. There's no way ever I'll be caught dead owning an SUV.
Not while they continue to control the narrative and lean into the image. Compare this ad:
http://youtu.be/G1Ci2UGrv1M
To this one:
http://youtu.be/kT07_c9mJLM
I mean, we're talking about one of the best SUV ads against one of the best minivan ads. And the connotations are clear. SUVs are about the independent and indefatigable spirit. Minivans are for your small children.
The image of the SUV is backed up by capability in a number of cases. Minivans are built to haul people. Their ability to tow is limited. They aren't any better than a car off road or in deep snow. Meanwhile, many SUVs can tow a small to medium sized boat or a snowmobile trailer or camper. Those with legit 4WD systems and decent ground clearance can go off-road to reach remote campsites or go crawling on the dunes at the beach. Ground clearance and a decent AWD/4WD system allows them to get through deep snow. They also have space inside for people and their stuff. If a single person or childless couple buys a Grand Cherokee, nobody thinks there's much strange about it. Perhaps they have a boat or enjoy camping or own dogs or all 3. What sort of response does a childless couple get if they buy a new minivan? Or a single, childless individual?
Quote from: Cookie Monster on July 05, 2017, 04:38:28 PM
I feel like the average consumer doesn't really care that much about how they are perceived driving a minivan. I thought SUV's mainly became popular to the average person because of the higher seating made it feel safer to drive?
Minivan was practically the same as early SUVs. It's mostly the image and this
Quote from: MX793 on July 05, 2017, 06:16:52 PM
The image of the SUV is backed up by capability in a number of cases. Minivans are built to haul people. Their ability to tow is limited. They aren't any better than a car off road or in deep snow. Meanwhile, many SUVs can tow a small to medium sized boat or a snowmobile trailer or camper. Those with legit 4WD systems and decent ground clearance can go off-road to reach remote campsites or go crawling on the dunes at the beach. Ground clearance and a decent AWD/4WD system allows them to get through deep snow. They also have space inside for people and their stuff. If a single person or childless couple buys a Grand Cherokee, nobody thinks there's much strange about it. Perhaps they have a boat or enjoy camping or own dogs or all 3. What sort of response does a childless couple get if they buy a new minivan? Or a single, childless individual?
is a part of that image. A vast majority of SUV drivers never take their vehicle off pavement. Yet they want the "option" to do ^^ and the different image instead of
more space inside their vehicle. Minivans can tow popup campers and up to 3000lbs so small towing stuff is no sweat.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 05, 2017, 07:03:40 PM
is a part of that image. A vast majority of SUV drivers never take their vehicle off pavement. Yet they want the "option" to do ^^ and the different image instead of more space inside their vehicle. Minivans can tow popup campers and up to 3000lbs so small towing stuff is no sweat.
Minivan can tow about the same as the typical midsize family sedan (or crossover ute). Not much. A small popup camper. Maybe a light, open utility trailer for an ATV, jet ski, or a couple of dirtbikes. Granted, that's about all a midsize crossover will handle as well (CX-9, Edge, Venza). Many crossovers can't handle more than 2000 lbs (the GM crossovers are 1500-2000 lbs). Some can handle a couple tons (Highlander, Pilot, and Explorer, in certain trims). The GranCho can haul up to 7000 lbs, depending on trim and drivetrain. Touaregs can pull 7700. Back in the days of body-on-frame SUVs, 10-15 years ago, they were much more capable. Trailblazers were 5000-7000 lbs. Early 00s Explorers were rated for 5000-7000 lbs. S10 Blazers were 5500-6000 lbs. 1st generation Jeep Liberties were rated at 5000 lbs. 4Runner, which is among the last of the old-school, pickup-based, BOF midsized SUVs is rated at 5000 lbs. By around 2010, a lot of even the BOF rigs started losing towing capacity. Last generation of BOF Explorers were only 3500 lbs. Second generation Liberties were only 2000 lbs.
Still, modern crossovers, by virtue of aping the look of their sturdier forebears, carry an air of capability. Most people probably have no clue that a new Jeep Cherokee or Chevy Traverse can't even tow half of what their predecessors of a decade or so ago could manage. Looks like a duck, must quack like a duck.
Quote from: Rich on July 05, 2017, 05:28:05 PM
When the generation that grew up in the back seat of an SUV gets old enough to buy on their own, the mall special SUVs will have the same connotation as the minivan.
I don't doubt it. One of these days I think it'll come back full circle and wagons will be cool again.
Quote from: 93JC on July 05, 2017, 09:43:27 PM
I don't doubt it. One of these days I think it'll come back full circle and wagons will be cool again.
They already are
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4249/35114207546_c5da212e9f_c.jpg)
(https://scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/19380051_432067977179763_1407682832708403200_n.jpg)
Quote from: MX793 on July 05, 2017, 07:41:54 PM
Minivan can tow about the same as the typical midsize family sedan (or crossover ute). Not much. A small popup camper. Maybe a light, open utility trailer for an ATV, jet ski, or a couple of dirtbikes. Granted, that's about all a midsize crossover will handle as well (CX-9, Edge, Venza). Many crossovers can't handle more than 2000 lbs (the GM crossovers are 1500-2000 lbs). .
My old minivan is rated for 3500lbs. :huh: http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=2002081950134
New one too: http://automobiles.honda.com/2017/odyssey/specifications.aspx
Which is the same as the FWD Pilot (AWD is rated at 5000) http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=9304-en
Pacifica is 3600, just so it beats Sienna, also rated at 3500.
Quote from: Raza on July 05, 2017, 05:52:59 PM
I don't think there's anything extreme or unusual about not wanting to drive a minivan--there's a multibillion dollar SUV market that exists because of it. It's about as extreme as wearing a jersey of your home team to watch a football game.
You said "everyone." I'm sorry if you didn't say what you meant.
The fact that it's common doesn't make it any less ridiculous.
And no, a five figure vehicle purchase is not the same as a $70-200 shirt purchase.
Quote from: Raza on July 05, 2017, 03:32:52 PM
Everyone does.
Some more than others, and you more than most.
I assume your post was mostly sarcasm, if that's not the case then I have to agree with Sporty in that your obsession with image here is a bit absurd. It's one thing when image does not get in the way of living, as in dressing well, but to believe placing practicality ahead of image in a given case is "pathetic" or "surrendering your life" is, well, itself a bit pathetic and ironically is surrendering to your perception of the opinion of others (hint: nobody really cares).
Also as you know most people are not car enthusiasts. For those people (what, 90% of the population?) simply buying the most practical car while taking into account value is the optimal decision. Caring so much about image is why people make irrational decisions like having a perpetual car payment for a luxury car when the person doesn't even have any interest in cars.
Even if it was sarcastic or hyperbolic it's still reflective of Raza's viewpoint to some degree, which makes it even more absurd. How dare a parent make the comfort and convenience of their offspring a bigger priority than the image they project to total strangers :wtf:
Didn't you want to buy a Camry and put coilovers on it because you loved the way it looked?
Didn't you buy a Lincoln in large part because it was a more unusual choice and something you didn't see a lot of people driving?
We all care about looks in some form or another. The important part is being comfortable in your own skin and able to laugh at yourself every once in awhile.
Liking how a car looks <> choosing a car to project a certain image
And lol @ either car being my first choice for looks or image. The main drivers of those purchases were boring things like reliability, practicality, comfort, value etc. If I were just going for looks/image I would probably have got an old Cayman S for me and probably a Range Rover Sport + warranty for wifey. I don't disagree that we all care about looks to some degree, but Raza seems to care beyond the point of it being fun/healthy.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 06, 2017, 11:02:23 AM
Liking how a car looks <> choosing a car to project a certain image
And lol @ either car being my first choice for looks or image. The main drivers of those purchases were boring things like reliability, practicality, comfort, value etc. If I were just going for looks/image I would probably have got an old Cayman S for me and probably a Range Rover Sport + warranty for wifey. I don't disagree that we all care about looks to some degree, but Raza seems to care beyond the point of it being fun/healthy.
You're taking his comment way too seriously. It's obviously a very sarcastic joke.
Quote from: Tave on July 06, 2017, 11:09:14 AM
You're taking his comment way too seriously. It's obviously a very sarcastic joke.
Mostly joke. :mrcool:
I dunno what you blokes keep carrying on about but minivans are fantastic vehicles. Many SUVs/CUVs mostly suck, at least per their actual use (people hauling).
And to add insult to injury, something like the Sienna with its 300 hp and 8sp AT would probably catch a good portion of the poser class off guard.
Thing is, a nice minivan (say the Sienna and Odyssey) are now very expensive vehicles - base MSRP is $30k for a stripper.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 06, 2017, 11:47:36 AM
I dunno what you blokes keep carrying on about but minivans are fantastic vehicles. Many SUVs/CUVs mostly suck, at least per their actual use (people hauling).
And to add insult to injury, something like the Sienna with its 300 hp and 8sp AT would probably catch a good portion of the poser class off guard.
Thing is, a nice minivan (say the Sienna and Odyssey) are now very expensive vehicles - base MSRP is $30k for a stripper.
I mess with people dragging from lights fairly often LOL. I would LOVE the AWD version though because I could launch so much better. My slippery diff makes me have to roll slow to start with or spin a tire.
Even at $30k, $5k extra for twice the seats and 50% more power than a Breeze Free twin ain't bad.
Pricing was just released for the Durango SRT.
$62K fuck you kids get a scholarship 😂
Quote from: 68_427 on July 06, 2017, 01:56:12 PM
Pricing was just released for the Durango SRT.
$62K fuck you kids get a scholarship 😂
I specified a Pacifica with every option I saw available and came out at $48,765. You cannot tell me the SUV is that much more to manufacture.
It's all about the cool points.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 06, 2017, 02:28:49 PM
I specified a Pacifica with every option I saw available and came out at $48,765. You cannot tell me the SUV is that much more to manufacture.
It's all about the cool points.
Um yeah the cool points of a 6.4L Hemi, awd, big brakes, and real towing capabilities.
$30k is still pretty good value compared to most new SUVs.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 06, 2017, 03:01:48 PM
$30k is still pretty good value compared to most new SUVs.
They both start about a grand less than their respective CUV counterparts (Highlander and Pilot).
EDIT: Plus the base Highlander has a smaller engine - add another $2k for the same engine as the Sienna.
Huh they did away with the 4cyl Sienna? Good
Quote from: 68_427 on July 06, 2017, 04:00:25 PM
Huh they did away with the 4cyl Sienna? Good
In 2004 I think.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 06, 2017, 02:28:49 PM
I specified a Pacifica with every option I saw available and came out at $48,765. You cannot tell me the SUV is that much more to manufacture.
It's all about the cool points.
This means they are doing a good job. Everyone can't be Tesla and use govt subsidies to sell cars below cost.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 06, 2017, 04:01:04 PM
In 2004 I think.
2012 it looks like
Oh and for 2017 it got the upgraded 3.5L with 296hp
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 06, 2017, 04:01:04 PM
In 2004 I think.
Quote from: 68_427 on July 06, 2017, 04:02:33 PM
2012 it looks like
Oh and for 2017 it got the upgraded 3.5L with 296hp
The '03-'10 generation was V6-only. The 2011 redesign brought back the 4-banger (the 2.7L from the Venza and Highlander) for a couple of years before dropping back to V6-only again.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 06, 2017, 04:01:32 PM
This means they are doing a good job. Everyone can't be Tesla and use govt subsidies to sell cars below cost.
Too true!!
Quote from: 93JC on July 05, 2017, 09:43:27 PM
I don't doubt it. One of these days I think it'll come back full circle and wagons will be cool again.
Wagons are cool.
Trust me on this.
Pretty soon you'll be a wagon-hipster, reminding us all
(https://i.imgflip.com/1s4pvo.jpg)
I have not seen that hipster dude meme in a long time
Nor had I, it came to mind as I was writing the p0ast.
Quote from: 93JC on July 07, 2017, 09:07:06 AM
Pretty soon you'll be a wagon-hipster, reminding us all
(https://i.imgflip.com/1s4pvo.jpg)
Ehh. Whatever.
At least it's more practical than high wheeled bicycles.
Minivans & SUVs= tall wagons. :lol:
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 06, 2017, 08:51:47 AM
You said "everyone." I'm sorry if you didn't say what you meant.
The fact that it's common doesn't make it any less ridiculous.
And no, a five figure vehicle purchase is not the same as a $70-200 shirt purchase.
I never said it was the same. I said everyone and meant it.
Wow, you guys are so sensitive about minivans. I had no idea.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 06, 2017, 09:26:02 AM
Some more than others, and you more than most.
I assume your post was mostly sarcasm, if that's not the case then I have to agree with Sporty in that your obsession with image here is a bit absurd. It's one thing when image does not get in the way of living, as in dressing well, but to believe placing practicality ahead of image in a given case is "pathetic" or "surrendering your life" is, well, itself a bit pathetic and ironically is surrendering to your perception of the opinion of others (hint: nobody really cares).
Don't get so defensive, new papa. But quick question--are you trading in the big manly truck for a minivan now that kid #2 is on the way?
Quote
Also as you know most people are not car enthusiasts. For those people (what, 90% of the population?) simply buying the most practical car while taking into account value is the optimal decision. Caring so much about image is why people make irrational decisions like having a perpetual car payment for a luxury car when the person doesn't even have any interest in cars.
And as such, they often make the decisions they make not out of purely rational behaviors. There's a reason that minivans are no longer the overwhelming vehicle of choice for the moderately sized family (literally everyone on my block with up to 3 children has one or two SUVs, the only family with a minivan has three kids and a dog) and there's a reason that wagons have all but died in the US. And that reason is image. If every non-enthusiast cared about practical concerns over all else, minivans would be by far the highest selling segment in the US.
So of course image matters, and of course it matters to people with varying degrees. Pointing out that some people care about image more than others is as useful as pointing out that planes aren't boats. It's so obvious, it didn't need to be said. Jeep is Chrysler's most valuable brand. SUV and truck sales continue to increase. Companies invented new kinds of SUVs so they could sell more SUVs (like the BMW X6 or Nissan Juke).
I'm not knocking people who choose to drive a minivan, because as has been mentioned by many, including myself in my VERY FIRST POST on the topic, they are incredibly practical and for some, especially larger, families, the best way to get around. But I'm also not going to knock the people who don't want to buy a minivan because of the polo-tucked-into-pleated-pants-and-cell-phone-holster image that comes with the minivan. No need to take everything so fucking personally. :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 06, 2017, 11:02:23 AM
Liking how a car looks <> choosing a car to project a certain image
And lol @ either car being my first choice for looks or image. The main drivers of those purchases were boring things like reliability, practicality, comfort, value etc. If I were just going for looks/image I would probably have got an old Cayman S for me and probably a Range Rover Sport + warranty for wifey. I don't disagree that we all care about looks to some degree, but Raza seems to care beyond the point of it being fun/healthy.
Really? The guy who wanted to buy a Civic and make it as fast as an Si because he didn't want an Si because it was too obvious. And the guy who wanted a Camry on coilovers because it's counter to enthusiast culture. Being willfully counterculture is still caring about image.
Quote from: Tave on July 06, 2017, 11:09:14 AM
You're taking his comment way too seriously. It's obviously a very sarcastic joke.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 06, 2017, 11:29:43 AM
Mostly joke. :mrcool:
Yes, it was very sarcastic and
mostly a joke, as Will points out. But all jokes and all sarcasm comes from a kernel of truth. I had no idea that it would get up the asses of people who don't actually have a minivan on an enthusiast site, but the one guy who does have a minivan is able to laugh at it or let it roll off. The people who are taking it most personally (and responding by making personal statements) are the ones who weren't in the targeted group. So strange. Like I jokingly held up a mirror and they saw something they didn't want to see. Lebowski especially can't miss an opportunity to try to take a swing at me, for whatever reason.
Quote from: Raza on July 08, 2017, 12:10:44 PM
Really? The guy who wanted to buy a Civic and make it as fast as an Si because he didn't want an Si because it was too obvious. And the guy who wanted a Camry on coilovers because it's counter to enthusiast culture. Being willfully counterculture is still caring about image.
No, I didn't get the Si because the engine was too noisy. And even the Camry on coilovers is still far more practical for a family than say, a Z4.
Bottom line, you're trying to turn this back on everyone else, but the point is your post about parents being "pathetic" and children being "soulsucking" was just an asshole thing to say.
Quote from: Raza on July 08, 2017, 12:14:53 PM
Yes, it was very sarcastic and mostly a joke, as Will points out. But all jokes and all sarcasm comes from a kernel of truth. I had no idea that it would get up the asses of people who don't actually have a minivan on an enthusiast site, but the one guy who does have a minivan is able to laugh at it or let it roll off. The people who are taking it most personally (and responding by making personal statements) are the ones who weren't in the targeted group. So strange. Like I jokingly held up a mirror and they saw something they didn't want to see. Lebowski especially can't miss an opportunity to try to take a swing at me, for whatever reason.
What's more pathetic, driving a minivan or being obsessed with image?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 08, 2017, 12:45:27 PM
No, I didn't get the Si because the engine was too noisy. And even the Camry on coilovers is still far more practical for a family than say, a Z4.
Bottom line, you're trying to turn this back on everyone else, but the point is your post about parents being "pathetic" and children being "soulsucking" was just an asshole thing to say.
Yeah, it was an asshole thing to say. Look to the left of my post. What word do you see under my avatar?
EDIT: Oh wait, I forgot you've got a little one on the way too. That explains the sensitivity. Sorry dude, I didn't realize that it would set you off like that. It wasn't personal.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 08, 2017, 12:57:47 PM
What's more pathetic, driving a minivan or being obsessed with image?
Everyone cares about image. You can care about image and still drive a minivan, you know.
Quote from: Raza on July 08, 2017, 01:02:04 PM
Everyone cares about image. You can care about image and still drive a minivan, you know.
No not everyone, and you are pretty far into the (right) tail of the 'cares about image' bell curve i.e. caring about image to the degree you do is not normal.
Quote from: Raza on July 08, 2017, 01:01:34 PM
Yeah, it was an asshole thing to say. Look to the left of my post. What word do you see under my avatar?
EDIT: Oh wait, I forgot you've got a little one on the way too. That explains the sensitivity. Sorry dude, I didn't realize that it would set you off like that. It wasn't personal.
Miss me with these Republican "Im sorry you took offense to that" apologies. If you're gonna be an asshole, be an asshole, don't apologize or try and blame other people for responding to an asshole appropriately. And just because you go out of your way to embody every negative BMW owner stereotype doesn't mean everyone who drives a type of car fits your preconceptions :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 08, 2017, 01:35:45 PM
Miss me with these Republican "Im sorry you took offense to that" apologies. If you're gonna be an asshole, be an asshole, don't apologize or try and blame other people for responding to an asshole appropriately. And just because you go out of your way to embody every negative BMW owner stereotype doesn't mean everyone who drives a type of car fits your preconceptions :huh:
I
never take up more than one parking spot and I
always signal. So not every negative stereotype about BMW drivers.
But hey, if you say anything, you're probably going to offend someone. I never intended to offend you specifically. That has to count for something, right?
Quote from: Lebowski on July 08, 2017, 01:06:28 PM
No not everyone, and you are pretty far into the (right) tail of the 'cares about image' bell curve i.e. caring about image to the degree you do is not normal.
Yes everyone.
Quote from: Raza on July 08, 2017, 02:12:09 PM
I never take up more than one parking spot and I always signal. So not every negative stereotype about BMW drivers.
But hey, if you say anything, you're probably going to offend someone. I never intended to offend you specifically. That has to count for something, right?
Not necessarily. But saying kids are soul sucking and minivan drivers look pathetic and defeated.... will probably offend people with kids and minivan drivers. Not sure why you feel the need to defend yourself.... wasn't your intention to offend, asshole?
Hey, I like minivans. Wouldn't mind owning one.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 08, 2017, 03:14:25 PM
Not necessarily. But saying kids are soul sucking and minivan drivers look pathetic and defeated.... will probably offend people with kids and minivan drivers. Not sure why you feel the need to defend yourself.... wasn't your intention to offend, asshole?
Hey, I tried to apologize. :huh:
:popcorn: trollery works best when the sarcasm and relevance are on point.
A great deal of people don't know how many doors their car has
Quote from: Lebowski on July 08, 2017, 07:46:00 PM
You should get out more.
Perhaps you should be more self aware.
Quote from: Raza on July 09, 2017, 06:27:35 AM
Perhaps you should be more self aware.
Right back at you.
The degree of concern you have for image is not normal, sorry. That someone showers, flosses their teeth, and dresses decently well is not analogous to calling it pathetic to put practicality ahead of image. The irony in your post is that it's the overly image conscious who have "surrendered their lives," in this case to insecurity, vanity, and the imagined perceptions of others (again, no one really cares).
Quote from: Lebowski on July 09, 2017, 06:35:49 AM
Right back at you.
The degree of concern you have for image is not normal, sorry. That someone showers, flosses their teeth, and dresses decently well is not analogous to calling it pathetic to put practicality ahead of image. The irony in your post is that it's the overly image conscious who have "surrendered their lives," in this case to insecurity, vanity, and the imagined perceptions of others (again, no one really cares).
And yet, the simple fact remains that thousands upon thousands eschew buying a minivan for a less practical SUV because of....you guessed, image.
You never answered my question...are you trading in the SUV for a minivan now that kid #2 is on the way? It would be more practical.
Don't quit your day job--the armchair internet psychologist thing isn't going to work out for you.
Quote from: Lebowski on June 30, 2017, 12:11:39 PM
I actually if anything have a little extra respect for someone who can totally throw giving a shit about image to the wind and rock the minivan. I don't think I could do it, though.
Lol oh man.
Of course Raza's post was sarcastic and largely tongue-in-cheek. Yeah, he does care about image more than most, but so does Sporty. You also care about image, as do I, as does everyone in the fucking world. To what extent they care about image is totally irrelevant. This is easily one of the dumbest arguments I've read on this forum.
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 09, 2017, 08:40:31 AM
Lol oh man.
Of course Raza's post was sarcastic and largely tongue-in-cheek. Yeah, he does care about image more than most, but so does Sporty. You also care about image, as do I, as does everyone in the fucking world. To what extent they care about image is totally irrelevant. This is easily one of the dumbest arguments I've read on this forum.
Yeah, that's all probably true.
Quote from: Tave on July 09, 2017, 08:38:45 AM
Big difference between saying I wouldn't want to do something and saying anyone who does is pathetic and surrendered their life. Honestly from an image standpoint I could drive just about anything if I had to, as long as its reliable and clean. Part of the reason I wouldn't drive a minivan is we just don't need that much space on a regular basis, as I believe I also said earlier in this thread (maybe was a different recent thread not sure). If I needed regular seating for 7, sure, I'd consider a minivan.
As I said originally, sure there was a lot of sarcasm in that post, but as Raza said lotta truth too. Just interesting to see such stones being lobbed from the biggest glass house on the block.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 09, 2017, 09:13:08 AM
Big difference between saying I wouldn't want to do something and saying anyone who does is pathetic and surrendered their life. Honestly from an image standpoint I could drive just about anything if I had to, as long as its reliable and clean. Part of the reason I wouldn't drive a minivan is we just don't need that much space on a regular basis, as I believe I also said earlier in this thread (maybe was a different recent thread not sure). If I needed regular seating for 7, sure, I'd consider a minivan.
As I said originally, sure there was a lot of sarcasm in that post, but as Raza said lotta truth too. Just interesting to see such stones being lobbed from the biggest glass house on the block.
You should know by now Tave's StalkerSPIN is brutally efficient.
But yes, Raza is very delicate about these things.
A minivan is more practical if you need the room. If you only have 1-2 kids and no pets the size and worse fuel economy isn't worth it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 09, 2017, 10:24:58 AM
A minivan is more practical if you need the room. If you only have 1-2 kids and no pets the size and worse fuel economy isn't worth it.
Worse fuel economy than what? A midsize, 2-row SUV or crossover doesn't really get any better mileage. Even in FWD form, the midsize crossovers might have a 1 mpg advantage.
Quote from: MX793 on July 09, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
Worse fuel economy than what?
The compact SUVs that are at the top of the sales charts. There's really no practical difference between something like a Rogue and a Murano WRT passenger or cargo space, but the Rogue is a good bit smaller and more fuel efficient.
I think he means vs a sedan (edit apparently small CUVs).
Up until this point, 4Runner has had plenty of room for us. Now that we are officially a family of 4 (son born this past Wed) I think the 4Runner will still have plenty of room with the exception of a ~once a year week long trip where we take the dogs (for shorter weekend trips with the dogs like to my parents 4Runner should still have enough room), I think for now it probably makes the most sense to just rent something for that one week a year. I have no desire to be one of those parents who takes so much shit to go with a child they need a full sized SUV for a weekend ... my brother for example has a GL450 and a Sequoia and 2 kids, and I recall said couldn't fit all their baby related shit into the GL for a few days at the beach.
4Runner is now approaching 100k miles so not sure what eventual replacement will be or when (not in a rush).
Congratulations on your son. Now get a Land Cruiser
Congrats man. I love off topic big life announcements.
Wifey and I realized long ago a lot of people are terrible at logistics, which prompts shit like a Sequoia for a family of 4. After spending 3 years in that tiny ass NYC apartment I think we'll be able to make our cars work.
How can a family of four not find enough room in a GL?
My parents easily packed for a weekend trip with my infant brother and I in an E320 convertible. A GL is like a motorhome by comparison.
Quote from: Submariner on July 09, 2017, 12:40:04 PM
How can a family of four not find enough room in a GL?
My parents easily packed for a weekend trip with my infant brother and I in an E320 convertible. A GL is like a motorhome by comparison.
Kids now come with a lot more accessories than when we were little. Bouncers and pack n play type things, more elaborate car seats and strollers etc and in some cases crazy diets (he usually packs a cooler full of god knows what, probably the gluten and dairy free version of various packaged junk food) . But I agree, so much stuff that you can't take the GL is absurd and I regularly make fun of him for it. It's more my sister in law that's the over packer than him, though.
Quote from: Submariner on July 09, 2017, 12:40:04 PM
How can a family of four not find enough room in a GL?
My parents easily packed for a weekend trip with my infant brother and I in an E320 convertible. A GL is like a motorhome by comparison.
What Lebowski said. Car seats are incredibly huge space wasters. The strollers we used- little spindly things like umbrellas with wheels- are gone as well; replaced by enormous contraptions with multiple configurations, tires the size of dinner plates, lunch trays, and multiple stage cup holders.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 09, 2017, 01:47:08 PM
What Lebowski said. Car seats are incredibly huge space wasters. The strollers we used- little spindly things like umbrellas with wheels- are gone as well; replaced by enormous contraptions with multiple configurations, tires the size of dinner plates, lunch trays, and multiple stage cup holders.
Lots of storage on newer strollers for beers. :cheers:
Quote from: CALL_911 on July 09, 2017, 11:53:08 AM
Congratulations on your son. Now get a Land Cruiser
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 09, 2017, 12:01:10 PM
Congrats man. I love off topic big life announcements.
Wifey and I realized long ago a lot of people are terrible at logistics, which prompts shit like a Sequoia for a family of 4. After spending 3 years in that tiny ass NYC apartment I think we'll be able to make our cars work.
Thanks.
Land cruiser is too big and too expensive as much as I like them.
Fortunately my sig other is a much more efficient packer than my sister in law, we usually travel reasonably light.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 09, 2017, 01:47:08 PM
What Lebowski said. Car seats are incredibly huge space wasters. The strollers we used- little spindly things like umbrellas with wheels- are gone as well; replaced by enormous contraptions with multiple configurations, tires the size of dinner plates, lunch trays, and multiple stage cup holders.
Have things really changed that much since 1996?
I remember his stroller taking up half of the trunk, with the remaining half going to luggage (and that car didn't have a large trunk!) The car seat was large, yes, but I can't picture them being any larger today.
When my parents finally got an SUV, they had to look for ways to fill it up with luggage, and even then, they never did.
I think some child seats are definitely larger today...shit, people are putting their children in car seats until they're 9 years old, so they have to be bigger. I don't have any memories of ever being in a car seat, personally. I have memories of being allowed to sit in the front seat occasionally around 6 years old.
Quote from: Submariner on July 09, 2017, 03:00:43 PM
Have things really changed that much since 1996?
I remember his stroller taking up half of the trunk, with the remaining half going to luggage (and that car didn't have a large trunk!) The car seat was large, yes, but I can't picture them being any larger today.
When my parents finally got an SUV, they had to look for ways to fill it up with luggage, and even then, they never did.
Yes.
I am told there is significantly more today even than when my step son was born in 2008. How much is necessary I don't know, though the car seat related stuff you don't have much choice.
You should see the amount of shit we had coming in from her registry, literally a room full of baby stuff in boxes that I get to assemble. A lot of it looks redundant to my untrained eyes, but I am told it's all "needed" ... yet somehow the species once survived without it.
I don't remember ever having such an abundance of shit to play with as a kid...it's no wonder kids are so ADD nowadays.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 09, 2017, 11:17:49 AM
I think he means vs a sedan (edit apparently small CUVs).
Up until this point, 4Runner has had plenty of room for us. Now that we are officially a family of 4 (son born this past Wed) I think the 4Runner will still have plenty of room with the exception of a ~once a year week long trip where we take the dogs (for shorter weekend trips with the dogs like to my parents 4Runner should still have enough room), I think for now it probably makes the most sense to just rent something for that one week a year. I have no desire to be one of those parents who takes so much shit to go with a child they need a full sized SUV for a weekend ... my brother for example has a GL450 and a Sequoia and 2 kids, and I recall said couldn't fit all their baby related shit into the GL for a few days at the beach.
4Runner is now approaching 100k miles so not sure what eventual replacement will be or when (not in a rush).
Congratulations on the son--I mean that sincerely. What did you name the little guy?
Quote from: Raza on July 09, 2017, 06:30:39 PM
Congratulations on the son--I mean that sincerely. What did you name the little guy?
Thanks ... Quentin. Will probably call him Quinn.
Congratulations! My two kids are older now (10 and 6) and so everything can be packed in a few suitcases and I no longer carry strollers and play pens etc. When they were smaller honestly everything could fit for a week long trip in my Sonata which had a huge trunk. My wife just preferred the higher seating position of an SUV and so we usually took the Rav4. When we got rid of the Rav4 for an Enclave, I really began to appreciate driving a living room for long trips. So much space, so cush and serene a ride, and I loved how it looked.
If they could make yesteryears Ford Econoline or ChevyVan drive like a modern day large SUV or minivan, I'd be all over that.
Quote from: Lebowski on July 09, 2017, 07:00:00 PM
Thanks ... Quentin. Will probably call him Quinn.
I like it. Quinn's a cool name.
Quote from: 2o6 on July 09, 2017, 02:01:16 AM
A great deal of people don't know how many doors their car has
Mine has 4!.
Wait, I meant 5! 5 is my final answer! :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 09, 2017, 03:52:56 PM
I don't remember ever having such an abundance of shit to play with as a kid...it's no wonder kids are so ADD nowadays.
This
My entertainment was looking out the window while my parents were driving. Just try and tell that to a kid these days.
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 09, 2017, 03:52:56 PM
I don't remember ever having such an abundance of shit to play with as a kid...it's no wonder kids are so ADD nowadays.
When I was a kid, you'd sit in the back seat, where it was safe to not wear your seatbelt, with a lit cigarette and a martini, and you'd entertain yourself.
Quote from: Raza on July 10, 2017, 03:02:33 PM
When I was a kid, you'd sit in the back seat, where it was safe to not wear your seatbelt, with a lit cigarette and a martini, and you'd entertain yourself.
Man, I grew up in the wrong generation. :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on July 09, 2017, 07:00:00 PM
Thanks ... Quentin. Will probably call him Quinn.
Congratulations re Quentin. May you spoil him with good judgement.
Quote from: r0tor on July 10, 2017, 02:51:57 PM
This
My entertainment was looking out the window while my parents were driving. Just try and tell that to a kid these days.
Slugbug *punch*
I'm wondering if kids developed in the smartphone age will have a higher capability for intelligence. That there's so much stimuli, maybe if they are programmers it will make them more productive
I grew up with not much as a kid so now I'm happy to just have nothing and close my eyes for a bit and to just chill outside and people watch. I can't imagine a younger kid wanting or being able to do that and would be more productive than me
Quote from: Rich on July 10, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
I'm wondering if kids developed in the smartphone age will have a higher capability for intelligence. That there's so much stimuli, maybe if they are programmers it will make them more productive
I grew up with not much as a kid so now I'm happy to just have nothing and close my eyes for a bit and to just chill outside and people watch. I can't imagine a younger kid wanting or being able to do that and would be more productive than me
Thing is, they don't want to do any productive. They want to sit and play candy crush.
I looked out the window or read a book as a kid.
Quote from: Rich on July 10, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
I'm wondering if kids developed in the smartphone age will have a higher capability for intelligence. That there's so much stimuli, maybe if they are programmers it will make them more productive
I grew up with not much as a kid so now I'm happy to just have nothing and close my eyes for a bit and to just chill outside and people watch. I can't imagine a younger kid wanting or being able to do that and would be more productive than me
I'm no child psychologist but I feel the opposite is true. All this overstimulation and multitasking I worry risks the ability to focus on a single task. I feel like my own attention and ability to focus has suffered since the smartphone.
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2017, 03:21:45 PM
Slugbug *punch*
Slugbug? Don't you mean punchbuggy?
Is this like soda versus pop?
Quote from: Rich on July 10, 2017, 03:43:59 PM
I'm wondering if kids developed in the smartphone age will have a higher capability for intelligence. That there's so much stimuli, maybe if they are programmers it will make them more productive
I grew up with not much as a kid so now I'm happy to just have nothing and close my eyes for a bit and to just chill outside and people watch. I can't imagine a younger kid wanting or being able to do that and would be more productive than me
Who knows? The overstimulation has led to an insane decrease in attention SQUIRREL span. People can't sit still SQUIRREL long enough to complete a thought, let alone a SQUIRREL full task.
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2017, 05:28:33 PM
Is this like soda versus pop?
Where did you grow up? I've never heard slugbug, but I've definitely heard
idiotic people say "pop".
It's "spud".
Quote from: r0tor on July 10, 2017, 02:51:57 PM
This
My entertainment was looking out the window while my parents were driving. Just try and tell that to a kid these days.
Not even books? Or did those not exist when you were a kid?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on July 10, 2017, 04:58:53 PM
Thing is, they don't want to do any productive. They want to sit and play candy crush.
I looked out the window or read a book as a kid.
And what did you want to do as a kid? Solve world hunger? :lol:
"Back in my day people were better human beings :fogey:" You guys are like 35 years old, cut it out :lol:
"Slugbug" was a game played while traveling. The first one to see an air cooled Type 1 VW Beetle yelled "SLUGBUG" and socked the person next to them in the shoulder. What am I, the fucking historian around here? :lol:
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2017, 03:21:45 PM
Slugbug *punch*
Bitch please, we all know it's punch-buggy.
The peak of in-car entertainment when I was a kid was "I spy with my little eye..."
Quote from: shp4man on July 10, 2017, 05:50:55 PM
"Slugbug" was a game played while traveling. The first one to see an air cooled Type 1 VW Beetle yelled "SLUGBUG" and socked the person next to them in the shoulder. What am I, the fucking historian around here? :lol:
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2017, 03:21:45 PM
Slugbug *punch*
Slugbug was still going strong in the 80's.
Quote from: shp4man on July 10, 2017, 05:50:55 PM
"Slugbug" was a game played while traveling. The first one to see an air cooled Type 1 VW Beetle yelled "SLUGBUG" and socked the person next to them in the shoulder. What am I, the fucking historian around here? :lol:
Did you also play the game where if you saw a hearse first, you got to put a plastic bag over your cousin's head until it was out of sight?
I hated reading in the car. It made me nauseous.
I remember we used to try and see which cars had their registration out of date though. :lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 10, 2017, 06:09:04 PM
Did you also play the game where if you saw a hearse first, you got to put a plastic bag over your cousin's head until it was out of sight?
LOL whaaaat?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 10, 2017, 06:09:04 PM
Did you also play the game where if you saw a hearse first, you got to put a plastic bag over your cousin's head until it was out of sight?
You need to stop throwing these things out at random and formally document them all ASAP.
I used to read in the car. Or play Punch Buggy. Or play spot the padiddle.
I was OK to just geek out over all the stuff going on in the car. When I was a kid I used to make pretend cars out of boxes. Steering wheel, gauges, gearshift, everything :lol:
I don't remember what we did on trips in the car :confused:, but mostly we just went to the local village on the week-end to get a few groceries. It was only about a mile or so. Once in a while, we went to the big town that was about 14 miles away. So much exhaust fumes leaking into the car, it was a '38 Ford, my brothers and I were probably out cold by the time we got there.
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2017, 05:57:47 PM
Slugbug was still going strong in the 80's.
I remember playing slugbug in the mid-late 90s. And padiddle, which was where when you saw a car with one headlight, first person to hit the ceiling got the point.
Slugbug players have been punch drunk in the 70's, when more Beetles were on the road. :lol:
I've recently realized that I'm responsible for lots of punches being thrown.
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2017, 06:46:08 PM
LOL whaaaat?
Then there was the game where they would heat up the cigarette lighter; then toss it under the seat when you're not looking. Then they would go "hey I dropped my (whatever) and it rolled under the seat" and then wait and see if I burned my fingers when I stuck my hand under there to look for it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 10, 2017, 07:09:21 PM
You need to stop throwing these things out at random and formally document them all ASAP.
No point anymore, but truth is some of my cousins were real assholes.
I always hated these in-car games.
Slugbug is really pissing me off just like fucking padiddle. Such stupid fucking names
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 10, 2017, 09:15:32 PM
Then there was the game where they would heat up the cigarette lighter; then toss it under the seat when you're not looking. Then they would go "hey I dropped my (whatever) and it rolled under the seat" and then wait and see if I burned my fingers when I stuck my hand under there to look for it.
You're making shit up
Those apostrophes are killing me.
Quote from: Laconian on July 10, 2017, 10:20:52 PM
You're making shit up
And on one trip, when the car got stuck in the snow, we ate Jacob.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 10, 2017, 09:15:32 PM
Then there was the game where they would heat up the cigarette lighter; then toss it under the seat when you're not looking. Then they would go "hey I dropped my (whatever) and it rolled under the seat" and then wait and see if I burned my fingers when I stuck my hand under there to look for it.
:lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on July 10, 2017, 09:15:32 PM
Then there was the game where they would heat up the cigarette lighter; then toss it under the seat when you're not looking. Then they would go "hey I dropped my (whatever) and it rolled under the seat" and then wait and see if I burned my fingers when I stuck my hand under there to look for it.
One time my brother and I were on a road trip in a Ford Courier and he started lighting smoke bombs and throwing them under the seat while I was driving. Purple and green smoke everywhere and I was rolling down the window as fast as I could. He is my older brother. Yes, we were idiots.
Congrats Lebowski and y'all are the best. :mrcool:
In minivan-related news I didn't do better than 24mpg cross-country: NY past Toronto through Flint, Lansing, to Indiana then cross I-80 to the furthest southwest corner of Wyoming. Lots of 80mph and even extended 85mph where the Wyoming limit gets up to 80mph. At 80mph churning 2200rpms so I'm somewhat disappointed with that mileage. HOWEVER, we were pushing into the headwind so we'll see how the return trip goes.
Odyssey has 10 cupholders but no good place to put a phone, I got a suction cup arm-mount for one of the cupholders under the radio.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 11, 2017, 10:12:16 AM
Congrats Lebowski and y'all are the best. :mrcool:
In minivan-related news I didn't do better than 24mpg cross-country: NY past Toronto through Flint, Lansing, to Indiana then cross I-80 to the furthest southwest corner of Wyoming. Lots of 80mph and even extended 85mph where the Wyoming limit gets up to 80mph. At 80mph churning 2200rpms so I'm somewhat disappointed with that mileage. HOWEVER, we were pushing into the headwind so we'll see how the return trip goes.
Odyssey has 10 cupholders but no good place to put a phone, I got a suction cup arm-mount for one of the cupholders under the radio.
Gotta consider all the weight of people & cargo. Each 100lbs makes a big difference, especially at 80+ mph. I remember an old rule of thumb being that every 5mph over 60 is about one mpg lost.
I take it back- I got up to 28 and 29mpg on a couple tanks. My maths sucks.
And it was just me and two lightweight preteens, not much cargo really. Going back home we're taking boxes and boxes of wife's cargo, stuff we didn't have room for at our house when we first got married. Boxes of papers and keepsakes etc.... Might have to buy one of those bags to put suitcases on the roof. (I'm too cheap for an expensive box.)
Ah, well that's respectable mileage. Did you enjoy the shitty roads through MI? :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 11, 2017, 10:12:38 PM
Ah, well that's respectable mileage. Did you enjoy the shitty roads through MI? :lol:
not really any worse than anywhere else...
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 12, 2017, 08:10:07 AM
not really any worse than anywhere else...
I know, I know. The freeways aren't bad.
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 11, 2017, 08:41:55 PM
Gotta consider all the weight of people & cargo. Each 100lbs makes a big difference, especially at 80+ mph. I remember an old rule of thumb being that every 5mph over 60 is about one mpg lost.
An extra 100 lbs is pretty meaningless to steady-state cruising fuel consumption. It adds like 2 lbs of rolling resistance drag to the vehicle. Makes a much larger difference in stop and go.
True enough. I suppose aero is the biggest factor up there.