http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40505671
Starting in 2019, no new Volvo will debut without some degree of electrification (hybrid or EV). Pretty conveniently, of course, Volvo will likely have just finished redesigning its entire lineup by then.
Smart plan IMO. I think much of the complexity, expense and crappy sound/response of turbochargers can be eliminated via hybrids. Hopefully the tech continues to advance and e-turbos become more mainstream.
I am just imagining a bunch of $60,000 Galaxy Notes. Hope they come with fire extinguishers. Fiskers didn't, and look what happened to them.
For real, though, this is probably a good move. I was never going to buy a Chinese Volvo anyway, so this doesn't affect me. But, it's time for this again:
(http://allthingsd.com/files/2012/04/homer-end-is-near1.jpg)
It's not like the company really has any serious sporting intentions anymore... So why not
Yea, hybrid tech is completely incompatible with sportiness.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5Z7Z8nDsR3U/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---eQ0dwqf--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/19dbp5q7uhgrpjpg.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Audi_R18_at_1000km_of_Spa_2011.JPG)
Bad move.
~15 years on and hybrids are DOA unless it's a Prius and electric cars are still at hobby level, all the while gas is still cheap and global warming hysteria has been beat back significantly.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 05, 2017, 07:45:11 AM
Yea, hybrid tech is completely incompatible with sportiness.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5Z7Z8nDsR3U/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---eQ0dwqf--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/19dbp5q7uhgrpjpg.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Audi_R18_at_1000km_of_Spa_2011.JPG)
Mainstream buyers see hybrid and think prius.
Quote from: r0tor on July 05, 2017, 07:58:37 AM
Mainstream buyers see hybrid and think prius.
Mainstream buyers don't care about sportiness.
Since Volvo is owned by a Chinese company and the Chinese government and Chinese companies are essentially one and the same (in my mind) - Volvo is just echoing what China demands going forward.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/11/25/china-to-automakers-make-evs-or-die/#36f50fef4e62
On a side note, I drove my cousin's brand new red Tesla Model S over the July 4th weekend. If I had $100,000 liquid expendable cash, I would buy that car. That experience was so cool.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 05, 2017, 07:45:11 AM
Yea, hybrid tech is completely incompatible with sportiness.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---eQ0dwqf--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/19dbp5q7uhgrpjpg.jpg)
Something akin to the MGU-H I would like to see in road cars. BMW did announce plans years ago, but apparently nothing became of it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 05, 2017, 08:06:34 AM
Mainstream buyers don't care about sportiness.
... Which is why Volvo going hybrid is fine...
Quote from: Galaxy on July 05, 2017, 10:00:48 AM
Something akin to the MGU-H I would like to see in road cars. BMW did announce plans years ago, but apparently nothing became of it.
I've read that Mercedes is planning a hyper car with a full on F1 drivetrain
Correct me if I'm wrong here, engineers, but the process of converting gasoline into rotary motion is more efficient than converting gasoline to electricity to rotary motion, right? Ya, I know about regenerative braking, but still.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 05, 2017, 06:46:54 AM
Smart plan IMO. I think much of the complexity, expense and crappy sound/response of turbochargers can be eliminated via hybrids. Hopefully the tech continues to advance and e-turbos become more mainstream.
Crappy sound? I love listening to turbos. :huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 05, 2017, 11:04:57 AM
Crappy sound? I love listening to turbos. :huh:
Turbos sound cool, but the engines they are connected to generally don't when compared to engines without turbos.
Only exception I've seen are N/A engines with turbos strapped to them.... but this new crop of small turbo tiny cam engines is not wavy.
Quote from: shp4man on July 05, 2017, 10:48:35 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, engineers, but the process of converting gasoline into rotary motion is more efficient than converting gasoline to electricity to rotary motion, right? Ya, I know about regenerative braking, but still.
Not necessarily. The big benefit is in the transmission- or more importantly the ability to toss it, and allow the engine to operate at an ideal speed all the time. There is some loss, but it's much less than what you lose through the friction and nearly never ideal RPMs normal transmissions force engines to run at. Again there's good reason diesel locomotives use that exact setup.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 05, 2017, 11:29:43 AM
Turbos sound cool, but the engines they are connected to generally don't when compared to engines without turbos.
(http://cdn3.meme.am/cache/instances/folder841/500x/62773841/the-big-lebowski-yeah-well-thats-just-like-your-opinion-man.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 05, 2017, 07:45:11 AM
Yea, hybrid tech is completely incompatible with sportiness.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5Z7Z8nDsR3U/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s---eQ0dwqf--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/19dbp5q7uhgrpjpg.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Audi_R18_at_1000km_of_Spa_2011.JPG)
Yes.
"Turbos are for Camrys, Prius tech for supercars!"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 05, 2017, 11:29:43 AM
Only exception I've seen are N/A engines with turbos strapped to them....
So....like turbo engines?
Quote from: r0tor on July 05, 2017, 07:58:37 AM
Mainstream buyers see hybrid and think prius.
Is hybrid tech pushed in motorsports because it's technically better than turbocharging/extra displacement/etc or simply because it's the cool thing to do these days?
Quote from: r0tor on July 05, 2017, 10:05:53 AM
I've read that Mercedes is planning a hyper car with a full on F1 drivetrain
They should just build an F1 car with a hydraulic suspension and headlamps.
Quote from: Raza on July 05, 2017, 01:23:16 PM
So....like turbo engines?
No. Like turbocharged engines, not engines with turbochargers.
Quote from: r0tor on July 05, 2017, 10:05:53 AM
I've read that Mercedes is planning a hyper car with a full on F1 drivetrain
Wut? :lol:
Mercedes-AMG Readying Insanely Powerful 800HP Four-Door GT For 2019(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Rpk2DILQWQM/WVpTMyTvOQI/AAAAAAAA3pA/JERE6GoGTLUSPGWXVvnZ6-Kg6JnH1ymXACLcBGAs/s1600/open.jpg)
It looks like Mercedes is going after the Porsche Panamera with the throttle wide open, as the latest reports say that the upcoming GT4 four-door model will offer 800hp in its top version.
Base models will be powered by the twin-turbo 4.0-liter V8 which will be tuned for over 600hp but Mercedes also plans a hybrid powertrain inspired by Formula 1.
This version will continue using the 4.0-liter V8 unit, only now it will be helped by an electric motor in order to produce 805hp and enable the upcoming AMG GT4 to accelerate from 0-62mph in under 3 seconds, Autocar reports.
Power will be transmitted in all four wheels, using the same all-wheel drive system that debuted with the E63 model, with the range-topping 805hp version expected for launch in 2019.
Numbers like these will put the hybrid GT4 way ahead of the Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid, which is right now the closest thing to a rival, with its 671hp and 0-62 in 3.4 seconds.
Mercedes is planning to launch the less-insane 600hp AMG GT4 in September 2018, with prototypes already spotted on several occasions being tested at the Nurburgring.
Link: http://www.carscoops.com/2017/07/mercedes-amg-readying-insanely-powerful.html
Quote from: Raza on July 05, 2017, 01:23:16 PM
So....like turbo engines?
No... like an S2000 engine with a turbo on it. Very different from something like a GTI engine, which is designed around the turbocharger.
Quote from: Submariner on July 05, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Is hybrid tech pushed in motorsports because it's technically better than turbocharging/extra displacement/etc or simply because it's the cool thing to do these days?
It became popular in Lemans due to being able to make less pit stops for fuel over the 24hr race while maintaining pace with traditional engines.
F1 changed rules to ban refueling the cars during the race and put in place limits on fuel injection rates. The hybrid tech allows them to meet those goals.
From an outright speed point of view, the hybrid tech is not needed. In a point of view where motorsports is a tool to push technology that gets eventually transferred down to the street - then it's probably good to have.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on July 05, 2017, 02:13:58 PM
Wut? :lol:
Mercedes-AMG Readying Insanely Powerful 800HP Four-Door GT For 2019
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Rpk2DILQWQM/WVpTMyTvOQI/AAAAAAAA3pA/JERE6GoGTLUSPGWXVvnZ6-Kg6JnH1ymXACLcBGAs/s1600/open.jpg)
It looks like Mercedes is going after the Porsche Panamera with the throttle wide open, as the latest reports say that the upcoming GT4 four-door model will offer 800hp in its top version.
Base models will be powered by the twin-turbo 4.0-liter V8 which will be tuned for over 600hp but Mercedes also plans a hybrid powertrain inspired by Formula 1.
This version will continue using the 4.0-liter V8 unit, only now it will be helped by an electric motor in order to produce 805hp and enable the upcoming AMG GT4 to accelerate from 0-62mph in under 3 seconds, Autocar reports.
Power will be transmitted in all four wheels, using the same all-wheel drive system that debuted with the E63 model, with the range-topping 805hp version expected for launch in 2019.
Numbers like these will put the hybrid GT4 way ahead of the Porsche Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid, which is right now the closest thing to a rival, with its 671hp and 0-62 in 3.4 seconds.
Mercedes is planning to launch the less-insane 600hp AMG GT4 in September 2018, with prototypes already spotted on several occasions being tested at the Nurburgring.
Link: http://www.carscoops.com/2017/07/mercedes-amg-readying-insanely-powerful.html
Actually, a bit more insanity is rumored...
http://jalopnik.com/mercedes-will-give-you-a-street-legal-f1-engine-for-3-1793185285
Quote from: r0tor on July 06, 2017, 05:20:46 AM
Actually, a bit more insanity is rumored...
http://jalopnik.com/mercedes-will-give-you-a-street-legal-f1-engine-for-3-1793185285
Gotta love how the "engine will only last for 31,000 miles" literally starts up a discussion on how a Corolla/Camry is a better car... :facepalm: :lol:
It's almost 2018 and Jalopnik has a comments section that is still stuck in the stone age. :heated:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 06, 2017, 04:31:04 AM
No... like an S2000 engine with a turbo on it. Very different from something like a GTI engine, which is designed around the turbocharger.
Oh, I see.
Quote from: veeman on July 05, 2017, 09:09:58 AM
Since Volvo is owned by a Chinese company and the Chinese government and Chinese companies are essentially one and the same (in my mind) - Volvo is just echoing what China demands going forward.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/11/25/china-to-automakers-make-evs-or-die/#36f50fef4e62
This. China does not like importing oil. It's a strategic weakness. They're addressing it by switching to EVs powered by coal, of which they have plenty.
Quote from: Morris Minor on July 09, 2017, 12:24:00 PM
This. China does not like importing oil. It's a strategic weakness. They're addressing it by switching to EVs powered by coal, of which they have plenty.
Yes. Also, air quality is a big issue there and govt authorities are starting to address it. When half your cities population walks around outside with a white face mask, it's not a good look.
Quote from: Morris Minor on July 09, 2017, 12:24:00 PM
They're addressing it by switching to EVs powered by coal, of which they have plenty.
They still use to much coal, but they are actually more aggressive in switching to renewables then the US. 20% of electricity in China comes from renewable sources, compared to 14% in the US.
Just look at the installed solar power capacity.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/China_Photovoltaics_Installed_Capacity.svg/800px-China_Photovoltaics_Installed_Capacity.svg.png)
China is also huge I hydroelectric generation. It's a little more then 20% of their total production...
Quote from: Galaxy on July 10, 2017, 04:41:11 AM
They still use to much coal, but they are actually more aggressive in switching to renewables then the US. 20% of electricity in China comes from renewable sources, compared to 14% in the US.
Just look at the installed solar power capacity.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/China_Photovoltaics_Installed_Capacity.svg/800px-China_Photovoltaics_Installed_Capacity.svg.png)
Renewable for China is mostly dams (80%+).
The US should not look at China as a model for anything good. Their central planning is going to do them profound harm in the future.
Quote from: GoCougs on July 10, 2017, 07:08:11 PM
Renewable for China is mostly dams (80%+).
The US should not look at China as a model for anything good. Their central planning is going to do them profound harm in the future.
I would not say
anything good. I agree that central planning is poor in most situations, but there are certainly exceptions. Take the US Interstate System for example. That was only possible with central planning, you can not build a system like that on municipal level.
Municipalities are also immoral. Our road system should have been designed by corporations.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 11, 2017, 05:29:32 AM
Municipalities are also immoral. Our road system should have been designed by corporations.
"Can I help you with anything today?"
"Yeah, I was trying to drive home, and somehow I ended up in this Walmart."
"We know. Let me show you to our grills."
(http://www.laguarida.us/Smileys/fantasticsmileys/evil.gif)
Quote from: Galaxy on July 11, 2017, 02:33:53 AM
I would not say anything good. I agree that central planning is poor in most situations, but there are certainly exceptions. Take the US Interstate System for example. That was only possible with central planning, you can not build a system like that on municipal level.
Governments can (and obviously do) a lot worse than infrastructure projects but they are indeed still immoral. Remember, the US interstate system came to be firstly to facilitate troop and equipment movement for war.
If interstates are a good idea, the market will find a way.