So this has been on my mind for a little while now. What is the best approach to having 3 cars for 2 drivers?
Obviously having an extra car affords the enthusiast of the family to cover all the family needs plus having a little fun for yourself... while the spouse gets their daily driver as well. But should the fun car be a dedicated car for only carving back roads on the weekend - or should it also be a daily driver so your always having fun? Should the utilitarian car be something you only use for camping trips and going to home depot - or should it also be a daily driver and allow your fun car to be more focused.
Its obvious to me that one of the cars needs to have more bandwidth to allow the other to be more focused. But which should that large bandwidth car be? :huh:
I personally had a fairly simple 3 car solution...
Focus - economical daily driver for the wife (who refuses to drive larger vehicles)
RX8 - Absolute weapon for carving back roads
JGC - Utilitarian bad weather, vacation, and home depot mobile. It's an absolute tank in bad weather and rough terrain.
I was more then satisfied with that setup for many years. But back the my commute was shorter and basically just back roads and side streets. Now my commute is 90% highway and doesn't suit the RX8 (to loud and hyper to ever relax while driving) or the Jeep (I absolutely fight to stay awake as it gently bobs and floats down the road).
I'm thinking one need an upgrade...
Could replace the RX8 with something like a 2 year old CPO M3. Would be more adaptable to the highway plus still a blast on back roads. Still can fit the family in it. But I love the RX8 and probably have too much emotional attachment to it. Plus our climate dictates I'd still be driving the damn Jeep most days.
Could replace the Jeep with something more like a newish X5 or JLR product. Sacrificing some offroad capability and bad weather capability for on road handling. Id benefit from a nicer vehicle most days... But us this near the end of days when I can buy a drivers car from the new age Golden Era of high performance automobiles?
It's kind of ironic that the car that you literally require which satisfies all these criteria is this...
(https://s21.postimg.org/4jc8sdud3/Untitled-1.jpg)
The Mercedes R63 AMG. :lol:
Replace the Cherokee with an F Pace. That's all you have to do.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 12, 2017, 12:00:18 PM
It's kind of ironic that the car that you literally require which satisfies all these criteria is this...
(https://s21.postimg.org/4jc8sdud3/Untitled-1.jpg)
The Mercedes R63 AMG. :lol:
Rather not be that depressed middle aged man driving a wagon broken down on the side of the road...
Cherokee SRT?
I had minivan, Legacy wagon, Miata. Was heavenly.
I would figure out how to get it done with 2 cars. A reasonably fun to drive wagon or hatch?
Quote from: Lebowski on August 12, 2017, 02:21:39 PM
I would figure out how to get it done with 2 cars. A reasonably fun to drive wagon or hatch?
Unthusiast
3 car solution is unnecessary if
- unthusiast is willing to drive the bigger car
- enthusiast car can be all weather
Wifey is cool with crossovers so it's open season for me. I've been riding less and less now with the G. Something like my friend's 228i or a 997 C2 would be absolutely perfect. For snowy stuff just get something AWD.... plenty of stuff (911 C4, WRX, S4, xDrive BMWs etc.). Hell, some crossovers are not bad (though fun and practicality seem to be on different ends).
Our setup:
Wife has a Tucson now. In a few years, we'll get a Highlander or some other 3 row CUV for her.
Utility vehicle is my 4Runner. We take that to Home Depot and when we need to haul stuff.
Fun car is the S2000 that only I drive.
Quote from: Lebowski on August 12, 2017, 02:21:39 PM
I would figure out how to get it done with 2 cars. A reasonably fun to drive wagon or hatch?
Your M3 makes that decision easy.
Quote from: MrH on August 12, 2017, 03:22:21 PM
Our setup:
Wife has a Tucson now. In a few years, we'll get a Highlander or some other 3 row CUV for her.
Utility vehicle is my 4Runner. We take that to Home Depot and when we need to haul stuff.
Fun car is the S2000 that only I drive.
Winning choice.
Can't the Tuscon handle most cargo that the 4runner takes?
Quote from: MrH on August 12, 2017, 03:22:21 PM
Our setup:
Wife has a Tucson now. In a few years, we'll get a Highlander or some other 3 row CUV for her.
Utility vehicle is my 4Runner. We take that to Home Depot and when we need to haul stuff.
Fun car is the S2000 that only I drive.
I was wondering the same, are you making that many trips to Home Depot that the Tucson (and eventually Highlander!) can't handle that you need 4runner?
Last I checked, he lives on a snowy climate...
Last I checked, the Highlander comes with AWD..................
Quote from: 68_427 on August 12, 2017, 01:43:36 PM
Cherokee SRT?
He's worried about unreliability and you suggest something from the Chrysler family?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 12, 2017, 10:40:24 PM
Last I checked, the Highlander comes with AWD..................
Is he suppose to share the Highlander on snowy days?
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 07:47:39 AM
Is he suppose to share the Highlander on snowy days?
There are plenty of non-SUVs that are capable of driving in the snow. Hell, an S2000 on snow tires (http://blog.tomolesnevich.com/snowpocalypse-in-the-s2000/) can get around in the white stuff.
Most of my trips to Lowes are in the G or Civic.
I drove a RX8 with snow tires for 6 years... It in no way shape or form was ever as competent in the snow as my jeep (or his 4 runner) in the snow.
Just Baca use you can do something doesn't mean that everyone wants to do it
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 07:47:39 AM
Is he suppose to share the Highlander on snowy days?
Are they often taking both cars simultaneously to Home Depot?
Quote from: Lebowski on August 13, 2017, 08:49:45 AM
Are they often taking both cars simultaneously to Home Depot?
If the wife works and he works, who gets to go to work that day? Again you can slap a set of winter tires on an S2000 and it's still going to suck on anything but a light snow... Been there, done that
If you live in the snow belt and wish to have a sports car, more often then not it requires an additional vehicle for the winter. It's just a fact of life.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 08:42:37 AM
I drove a RX8 with snow tires for 6 years... It in no way shape or form was ever as competent in the snow as my jeep (or his 4 runner) in the snow.
Just Baca use you can do something doesn't mean that everyone wants to do it
But you were able to do it. Nobody said a sports car would be as good as a SUV in the snow, just usable. Here's another winter sports car driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKBdOE2z4O4
The Home Depot argument is questionable too. Are you guys working in construction/landscaping on the side? How often are you going and what are you buying? I just built my wife a hack squat machine and regularly have some kind of woodworking project along with all the yard work shit. I would say I'm in Lowes 3-4 times a month and probably need her crossover like 10% of the time. For big shit Lowe's often has free delivery included in the deal too, I just don't always use it. But you guys talk about going to Home Depot like buying groceries.... whats the deal?
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 09:17:14 AM
If the wife works and he works, who gets to go to work that day? Again you can slap a set of winter tires on an S2000 and it's still going to suck on anything but a light snow... Been there, done that
If you live in the snow belt and wish to have a sports car, more often then not it requires an additional vehicle for the winter. It's just a fact of life.
:huh:
I'm just going by what H said he uses it for:
Quote from: MrH on August 12, 2017, 03:22:21 PM
Utility vehicle is my 4Runner. We take that to Home Depot and when we need to haul stuff.
Quote from: Submariner on August 12, 2017, 11:33:45 PM
He's worried about unreliability and you suggest something from the Chrysler family?
A 10 year old AMG with production numbers under 500 is a totally different animal than a new Jeep.
Did you also happen to read between the lines and see him complaining about the reliability of his 1st year FCA product for the better part of 5-6 years?
We have four cars for two drivers right now.
-CTS
-Genesis
-M235i
-Outback
I have a demo from work, so I park the CTS in the garage. I had it detailed last week and it looks excellent...sitting in the garage. You know, the only time I drive it is to take it to the dealership when something's broken. The key was peeling, so I dropped it off and had it detailed too.
Fuck that car.
I didn't have a 3 car setup, but I was doing something similar to you, daily the NC. It was fun but got tiring, especially due to the lack of space.
I think if I had a spouse, it would be:
-Spouse drives whatever she likes
-Fun wagon or hatch for daily and utility uses (Outback is perfect for this)
-Sports car for weekend/track
4 seat cars are very capable. #coilovernation G is just as fun as the Z, but so much more usable and refined.
After spending more time in the 228i, I'd say it's caught in the middle. I'd go up to a 3 or down to the Z4. 4 5' 9"+ adults need more room.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 13, 2017, 09:24:53 AM
But you were able to do it. Nobody said a sports car would be as good as a SUV in the snow, just usable. Here's another winter sports car driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKBdOE2z4O4
This is a typical snowstorm in a sports car...
- adrenaline rush fueled by anxiety and fear
- time spent trying to understand how bad the roads are
- identifying multiple routes you can take depending on how shitty it really is
- making constant decisions approaching hills and deeper snow of weighing the risks of going to fast and crashing vs going too slow and getting stuck
Its fine when your in your 20s and single and don't give a fuck.
Snowstorm in a JGC is...
- verify snow on the road is less than bumper high... If it is that high grab your snowboard and call in sick to work
- decide of help of ignore the people stuck on the road.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 13, 2017, 09:24:53 AM
But you were able to do it. Nobody said a sports car would be as good as a SUV in the snow, just usable. Here's another winter sports car driver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKBdOE2z4O4
oOoOo wet roads. lol
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 13, 2017, 04:11:23 PM
4 seat cars are very capable. #coilovernation G is just as fun as the Z, but so much more usable and refined.
After spending more time in the 228i, I'd say it's caught in the middle. I'd go up to a 3 or down to the Z4. 4 5' 9"+ adults need more room.
That's the crux of the question... Better to stay solidly in sports car land and supplement with daily drivable ute, or move to sports sedan land for the daily driver and suppliment with old ute used only for few days
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2017, 06:38:23 PM
oOoOo wet roads. lol
I've been there. You do feel a certain level of badass while in the white stuff in a sports car... Only to find out later how epically a non event the conditions really are in something more capable
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 06:42:48 PM
I've been there. You do feel a certain level of badass while in the white stuff in a sports car... Only to find out later how epically a non event the conditions really are in something more capable
Really don't need to educate me. ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/l2wYpOZ.jpg)
What is impressive about driving an awd car in the snow?
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 06:58:52 PM
What is impressive about driving an awd car in the snow?
Nothing. Did I say it was? Just saying you don't need to tell me about white knuckle driving in the snow. My first car was a FWD Monte Carlo. My second vehicle was a Bravada whose 4WD didn't work. Then I had the A4. And now I have a truck that stays in 2WD 98% of the time during the winter while my local streets are covered in hardpack for 4 months straight.
But please, tell me about how crazy it is to drive on wet roads when it's cold outside. I was responding to sporty's video/post. Not you. lol
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 12, 2017, 08:20:31 PM
Can't the Tuscon handle most cargo that the 4runner takes?
Quote from: Lebowski on August 12, 2017, 09:25:40 PM
I was wondering the same, are you making that many trips to Home Depot that the Tucson (and eventually Highlander!) can't handle that you need 4runner?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 12, 2017, 10:40:24 PM
Last I checked, the Highlander comes with AWD..................
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 13, 2017, 07:56:58 AM
There are plenty of non-SUVs that are capable of driving in the snow. Hell, an S2000 on snow tires (http://blog.tomolesnevich.com/snowpocalypse-in-the-s2000/) can get around in the white stuff.
Most of my trips to Lowes are in the G or Civic.
I don't get what you guys are arguing. Are you saying I should be daily driving the S2000, and we share the Tucson if we need to go to Home Depot? And just get by with 2 cars?
Of course the Tucson can handle most trips to Home Depot. The 4Runner hauls gravel, mulch, 2x4s, etc much better.
And thank you sporty for informing me about sports cars being able to be driven in the winter. You know, living in Ohio and driving a miata and BRZ through multiple winters, I've never learned that. :lol:
We both have jobs and lives. We can't always share a car if it's snowing. I had only a sports car for more years than most on this forum. It's a pain in the ass in snow. I want a second vehicle to carry people/stuff and also use in the winter. The 4Runner fills that role really well. :huh:
I plan on having the El Camino, a sedan (Civic), and a decent SUV (4runner/Cherokee/wild card Transit van). Future wife can decide which of the two normal cars to drive every day and I'd be happy with the other. El Camino for nice days and fun stuff.
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2017, 07:02:35 PM
Nothing. Did I say it was? Just saying you don't need to tell me about white knuckle driving in the snow. My first car was a FWD Monte Carlo. My second vehicle was a Bravada whose 4WD didn't work. Then I had the A4. And now I have a truck that stays in 2WD 98% of the time during the winter while my local streets are covered in hardpack for 4 months straight.
But please, tell me about how crazy it is to drive on wet roads when it's cold outside. I was responding to sporty's video/post. Not you. lol
I was trying to express the exact emotions described in the video from driving a RWD sports car in the snow and feeling like your giving every SUV, truck, fwd, and AWD vehicle driver the middle finger. The feeling of boldness does exist until you later find out how it's just being epically stupid boasting about driving in weather that can be made mundane.
... Not really questioning if Michigan gets snow...
Quote from: MrH on August 13, 2017, 07:22:34 PM
I don't get what you guys are arguing. Are you saying I should be daily driving the S2000, and we share the Tucson if we need to go to Home Depot? And just get by with 2 cars?
Of course the Tucson can handle most trips to Home Depot. The 4Runner hauls gravel, mulch, 2x4s, etc much better.
And thank you sporty for informing me about sports cars being able to be driven in the winter. You know, living in Ohio and driving a miata and BRZ through multiple winters, I've never learned that. :lol:
We both have jobs and lives. We can't always share a car if it's snowing. I had only a sports car for more years than most on this forum. It's a pain in the ass in snow. I want a second vehicle to carry people/stuff and also use in the winter. The 4Runner fills that role really well. :huh:
I started the thread... Only chaos and insanity should be expected :lol: :popcorn:
Dude in that video didn't seem too stressed. Snow tires go a long way. Plus depending where you are and where you work you might not need to go out in a snow storm in the first place.
The more I think about it, the 3rd car should be something dirt cheap for when you have repairs or something. Problem with that is parking, and over time the cost of loaners vs insurance/maintenance is probably lower. Seems silly to keep a car for like 2-20 days out of the year of non-pleasure related usage. Hell, seems silly to keep a car for 2-20 days out of the year of pleaure related usage.
Quote from: MrH on August 13, 2017, 07:22:34 PM
I don't get what you guys are arguing. Are you saying I should be daily driving the S2000, and we share the Tucson if we need to go to Home Depot? And just get by with 2 cars?
Of course the Tucson can handle most trips to Home Depot. The 4Runner hauls gravel, mulch, 2x4s, etc much better.
And thank you sporty for informing me about sports cars being able to be driven in the winter. You know, living in Ohio and driving a miata and BRZ through multiple winters, I've never learned that. :lol:
We both have jobs and lives. We can't always share a car if it's snowing. I had only a sports car for more years than most on this forum. It's a pain in the ass in snow. I want a second vehicle to carry people/stuff and also use in the winter. The 4Runner fills that role really well. :huh:
I just thought it was odd Home Depot was the main reason for hving it, esp when you already have a Tucson (and eventually highlander). How often do you go to Home Depot?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2017, 12:13:17 AM
The more I think about it, the 3rd car should be something dirt cheap for when you have repairs or something. Problem with that is parking, and over time the cost of loaners vs insurance/maintenance is probably lower. Seems silly to keep a car for like 2-20 days out of the year of non-pleasure related usage. Hell, seems silly to keep a car for 2-20 days out of the year of pleaure related usage.
Those occasional times like a car is in the shop Uber suffices imo, plus has the added benefit of massively pissing off Gougs.
If you need a sports car there's no other way. But for me right now a sports car is unnecessary. There are a lot of great 4 seat cars
Not sure how a 4 Runner handles cargo better than a Tuscon aside from being bigger. And again how much gravel/mulch/2x4s are you buying? Are you building a second home? I'm on 1/3 acre and we do all our own landscaping and don't make that many big Lowes' purchases. Something is not adding up with these Home Depot trips. Maybe you need a Promaster :lol:
Just because I said we take the 4Runner to Home Depot doesn't mean that's the only thing we ever use the vehicle for... :confused:
Quote from: MrH on August 14, 2017, 06:44:59 AM
Just because I said we take the 4Runner to Home Depot doesn't mean that's the only thing we ever use the vehicle for... :confused:
That's the way I understood it.
Do you have a separate vehicle for Lowes?
Quote from: MrH on August 14, 2017, 06:44:59 AM
Just because I said we take the 4Runner to Home Depot doesn't mean that's the only thing we ever use the vehicle for... :confused:
Never said it was :huh:
My points haven't changed....
- You can drive a sports car in the winter (as you have demonstrated)
- You don't need more than 1 "Home Depot" car in the fleet (i.e. your wife's Highlander will be enough)
- Once you have 1 "Home Depot" car, if you live somewhere where you can only drive a sports car a couple months out of the year, 1 sporty 4-5 passenger car + 1 "Home Depot" car makes more sense than 2 HD cars and a sports car IMO, especially since said sporty car can come with AWD
Now if you just have to have a sports car in the fleet then it is what it is, but I'm no longer convinced that the DD + "Philisophical Miata" is the right setup objectively. An all rounder with good dynamics and practicality is pretty damn good for the daily grind
Quote from: MrH on August 14, 2017, 06:44:59 AM
Just because I said we take the 4Runner to Home Depot doesn't mean that's the only thing we ever use the vehicle for... :confused:
No, didn't take it that literally just the way it was worded. If it's important enough to mention seems like it's a significant reason for owning (and kinda redundant with another SUV in the household?)
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 14, 2017, 06:48:49 AM
That's the way I understood it.
Do you have a separate vehicle for Lowes?
I'm saving up for a Ford F150 for those trips to Lowes. In a few years after, a full size van for Menard's. Running out of driveway space though unfortunately.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 14, 2017, 06:48:49 AM
That's the way I understood it.
Do you have a separate vehicle for Lowes?
This made me lol. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2017, 07:02:52 AM
Never said it was :huh:
My points haven't changed....
- You can drive a sports car in the winter (as you have demonstrated)
- You don't need more than 1 "Home Depot" car in the fleet (i.e. your wife's Highlander will be enough)
- Once you have 1 "Home Depot" car, if you live somewhere where you can only drive a sports car a couple months out of the year, 1 sporty 4-5 passenger car + 1 "Home Depot" car makes more sense than 2 HD cars and a sports car IMO, especially since said sporty car can come with AWD
Now if you just have to have a sports car in the fleet then it is what it is, but I'm no longer convinced that the DD + "Philisophical Miata" is the right setup objectively. An all rounder with good dynamics and practicality is pretty damn good for the daily grind
- Driving a sports car in the winter is awful. Trust me, I know. r0tor nailed it. It's kind of fun and exciting to power slide around when you're young and don't have any real responsibilities. When you're sleep deprived, have a big client visit, and you're trying to get to the office while drinking your coffee, it's just stressful. The 4Runner is a monster in the snow. The first winter with it, we had a big snow storm. Highway was only plowed on a couple of lanes. Complete gridlock trying to get home. The left two lanes were unplowed. I just threw it in 4HI, and stomped on it. I beat my estimates to getting home by like an hour.
- No, we don't need it. It's nice for my other vehicle to have some utility. She drives a CUV because of choice. She's had a CUV of some sort since she started driving.
- I don't see the benefit of really having a sedan instead of a 4Runner. If it got totaled tomorrow, I might consider a 2018 V6 Camry or 2018 Accord with a stick, but they're both lacking AWD. I strongly considered an Outback over the 4Runner, but ended up with the 4Runner. I like the looks of it a lot better, and I got it with a 3rd row, which comes in handy once in awhile. Give up some in driving dynamics, but for the daily commute, dynamics don't matter all that much. Comfy ride and utility are much more important.
Yeah if you're gonna have a third car the 4Runner makes sense. I think what he was getting at was a fun-ish sedan to replace both the 4runner and s2000 to get to two cars total.
I see no need for limiting to 2 cars - especially in the northern climates if your an enthusiast
Basic question remains should the sporty car be a daily driver, or the utility car be the daily driver
Sporty car should be daily driver.
Quote from: Lebowski on August 14, 2017, 07:47:31 AM
Yeah if you're gonna have a third car the 4Runner makes sense. I think what he was getting at was a fun-ish sedan to replace both the 4runner and s2000 to get to two cars total.
Yeah, I've gone back and forth on that a bit. If I went down to one car, I'd likely have to go a separate set of wheels and tires, which add another head ache. Now, I just run KO2s on the 4Runner, and summer tires on the S2000, and just grab whichever fits the climate.
I haven't found a car that can do both as well. Some of us can't afford an M3 :lol: The gap between an all around vehicle like a GTI or Chevy SS and the S2000 is massive in terms of feel. I'd rather just have two cars.
Quote from: r0tor on August 14, 2017, 07:53:48 AM
I see no need for limiting to 2 cars - especially in the northern climates if your an enthusiast
Basic question remains should the sporty car be a daily driver, or the utility car be the daily driver
I spend more time sitting in traffic going to work and back every day than anything else. The comfy, utility vehicle gets a lot more use. So more is spent on that than the sports car.
Even an M3 though requires at least owning a WI term beater at bare minimum
If your commute is crappy them it doesn't matter. I don't spend any time in traffic, and about 20-30% of my commute is on back roads. #LivingTheDreamCuz I've said as much in the past but forgot here- commute dictates the fleet. Shitty commutes are just one of many reasons I fled the north. If I lived up there I would probably drive a crossover and nothing else between they roads, weather and traffic.
Quote from: r0tor on August 14, 2017, 07:53:48 AM
I see no need for limiting to 2 cars - especially in the northern climates if your an enthusiast
Basic question remains should the sporty car be a daily driver, or the utility car be the daily driver
Or... best of both worlds with a manual wagon.
The Outback is still fun on twisty roads while being able to haul a crapload of things. It's comfortable to DD (though my standards are low), unassuming enough (doesn't get a ton of attention from people), but still is fun and engaging when you want it to be.
The only thing it's really lacking is steering feel but even that's not a big deal, especially on the street.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 13, 2017, 04:11:23 PM
#coilovernation G is just as fun as the Z
Sad state of affairs, then! ;)
Anyway, yes. Drive the fun car everyday, then whatever the wife wants, and a utilitarian (probably an SUV) vehicle for occasional use. I plan on doing the same, but without the wife.
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
That's the crux of the question... Better to stay solidly in sports car land and supplement with daily drivable ute, or move to sports sedan land for the daily driver and suppliment with old ute used only for few days
No sporty FRC will ever feel as good as a true sports car. The multicar solution, if available, is always better. There's that old saying "a jack of all trades is a master of none" and not one that says "a jack of all trades is a preferable compromise to having specialized means."
Quote from: r0tor on August 14, 2017, 07:53:48 AM
I see no need for limiting to 2 cars - especially in the northern climates if your an enthusiast
Basic question remains should the sporty car be a daily driver, or the utility car be the daily driver
Of course there's not a "need" to limit to 2 cars, it's just significantly cheaper and more efficient.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 13, 2017, 04:11:23 PM
#coilovernation G is just as fun as the Z, but so much more usable and refined.
This speaks more about the 350Z than it does about the G :lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on August 14, 2017, 12:36:20 PM
Of course there's not a "need" to limit to 2 cars, it's just significantly cheaper and more efficient.
I don't know if it is. If I combined what the 4Runner and S2000 are worth, I don't think I could find a single replacement I would be happy with. $30k for the 4Runner and $16k for the S2k. What's $46k and under that I would enjoy anywhere near as much as having these two?
Coastal California standard is:
Mom has sedan , minivan or small SUV, (but boobjob importance far exceeds vehicle importance), dad has crewcab, late model pickup, with some toy vehicle, like a dirt bike, motorcycle or muscle car in a million pieces that will never be finished.
Not my style. ;)
Quote from: MrH on August 14, 2017, 12:43:06 PM
I don't know if it is. If I combined what the 4Runner and S2000 are worth, I don't think I could find a single replacement I would be happy with. $30k for the 4Runner and $16k for the S2k. What's $46k and under that I would enjoy anywhere near as much as having these two?
What they are worth now is not necessarily what they cost new if that's what you're comparing to, and there are costs (insurance, maintenance etc) and other considerations (keeping them clean, garage space etc) aside from purchase price.
I understand the appeal and I did the 2 cars / 1 driver thing for years, but at this point I have zero desire to own three cars for two drivers, even if that meant me driving a less fun dd (yeah I'm an unthusiast whatever)
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 14, 2017, 11:39:34 AM
Or... best of both worlds with a manual wagon.
The Outback is still fun on twisty roads while being able to haul a crapload of things. It's comfortable to DD (though my standards are low), unassuming enough (doesn't get a ton of attention from people), but still is fun and engaging when you want it to be.
The only thing it's really lacking is steering feel but even that's not a big deal, especially on the street.
No
Quote from: MrH on August 14, 2017, 12:43:06 PM
I don't know if it is. If I combined what the 4Runner and S2000 are worth, I don't think I could find a single replacement I would be happy with. $30k for the 4Runner and $16k for the S2k. What's $46k and under that I would enjoy anywhere near as much as having these two?
So if you were replacing 1 and your daily commute was 90% 70-80mph cruising on pourly maintained highways, which would you replace
Quote from: MrH on August 14, 2017, 12:43:06 PM
I don't know if it is. If I combined what the 4Runner and S2000 are worth, I don't think I could find a single replacement I would be happy with. $30k for the 4Runner and $16k for the S2k. What's $46k and under that I would enjoy anywhere near as much as having these two?
997 C4S
S7
Golf R + PSS95s
Macan S
Lot of options
Quote from: r0tor on August 13, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
That's the crux of the question... Better to stay solidly in sports car land and supplement with daily drivable ute, or move to sports sedan land for the daily driver and suppliment with old ute used only for few days
It depends on the commute and whether the fun car is something irreplaceable that you want to keep miles off.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2017, 05:17:02 PM
997 C4S
S7
Golf R + PSS95s
Macan S
Lot of options
Only the 997 can even touch his S2000. All the other choices are significantly less fun.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 14, 2017, 06:48:49 AM
That's the way I understood it.
Do you have a separate vehicle for Lowes?
:lol:
Quote from: Lebowski on August 14, 2017, 07:56:13 AM
Sporty car should be daily driver.
+1
I drove Miata unless it was really stormy out. Then people who don't look for little cars in the first place are even more clueless. So I would take Legacy.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on August 14, 2017, 05:52:41 PM
Only the 997 can even touch his S2000. All the other choices are significantly less fun.
Yep, pretty much. I've been watching 997 prices for awhile. I want a 997.2 (the direct injection engines are a lot more reliable), but a decent one of those is $50k+. A 997.1 is too expensive of a risk.
Quote from: MrH on August 14, 2017, 06:37:57 PM
Yep, pretty much. I've been watching 997 prices for awhile. I want a 997.2 (the direct injection engines are a lot more reliable), but a decent one of those is $50k+. A 997.1 is too expensive of a risk.
By the time you make the move, kiddies I'll be coming to squash that dream. Act now!
Quote from: r0tor on August 15, 2017, 08:35:24 AM
By the time you make the move, kiddies I'll be coming to squash that dream. Act now!
If anything, a 997 is a lot more kid friendly than his S2000.
I'm not rich enough to justify $80k in cars just for myself. Maybe someday.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on August 15, 2017, 11:40:54 AM
If anything, a 997 is a lot more kid friendly than his S2000.
That's why I enjoy the RX8 so much as it's involving as an S2000 but can also carry a family...
I just wish it could be quieter and have a more relaxed cruising mode to handle my now normal daily drive.
Quote from: r0tor on August 16, 2017, 10:22:43 AM
That's why I enjoy the RX8 so much as it's involving as an S2000 but can also carry a family...
I just wish it could be quieter and have a more relaxed cruising mode to handle my now normal daily drive.
If you think your Rx-8 is loud...
The S2000 is the loudest car I've owned, by far. It's pretty tiring to drive to and from work honestly. If my bonus was actually going to be good this year, I would probably jump to an ND miata this winter.
The road noise is insane. Like 3-4 clicks of the radio as you go from 40mph to 70mph. It is completely tiring.
I don't think it was always like that, but 10 years ago I probably didn't care about road noise and seldom took it on highway trips.
OldmanSpin
Question I have for MrH/r0tor....
From what it sounds like, you guys have shitty commutes, shitty roads and shitty weather for a good portion of the year. How many miles do you drive a year, and how many of those miles are in the fun car?
I was averaging about 5K miles a year on the motorcycle out of a total of about 20K, but with the G that has plummeted. I don't think I will break 2K this year and I'm honestly thinking about selling the bike or taking it off the road and doing track days. I don't do "fun drives to nowhere"... my commute is pretty sweet, sim racing is enough for my lizard brain, and I just don't have the time. IS there some minimal mileage before you would say the 2nd car's not worth it?
QuoteI was averaging about 5K miles a year on the motorcycle out of a total of about 20K, but with the G that has plummeted. I don't think I will break 2K this year and I'm honestly thinking about selling the bike or taking it off the road and doing track days. I don't do "fun drives to nowhere"... my commute is pretty sweet, sim racing is enough for my lizard brain, and I just don't have the time. IS there some minimal mileage before you would say the 2nd car's not worth it?
I'm in the same bucket. I barely have 2k miles on the Miata. We carpool to work and my company gives free Lyft rides for carpoolers for the exceptions when the carpool doesn't work. We could rock one car just fine. The decision to keep the car is an emotional one, not a rational one. I can afford to indulge my emotions in this case.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2017, 09:38:24 AM
I'm honestly thinking about selling the bike or taking it off the road and doing track days.
Dude you've been talking about doing track days for years and have yet to do one. Be honest with yourself. You scare yourself driving on the street.
The reality for me is, 98% of my driving yields virtually no opportunity for any sort of spirited driving. Mostly around town, residential neighborhoods or sitting in traffic or stoplight to stoplight stuff, and some stints on the highway w/ cruise control on at ~80mph. And I don't track my cars. I like the M3 but if buying today would probably get something cheaper and more mainstream, for my 1.25 mile commute on a brick street I might as well be in a Honda Fit (ok that's hyperbole, but the point remains).
Unthusiasm reigns :cry:
The traffic here is what kills my driving happiness. People just keep building farther and farther out into the rural areas. The tiny roads which were lots of fun a few years ago are completely crammed with big SUVs nows; the roads simply weren't built for commuter traffic.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2017, 09:38:24 AM
Question I have for MrH/r0tor....
From what it sounds like, you guys have shitty commutes, shitty roads and shitty weather for a good portion of the year. How many miles do you drive a year, and how many of those miles are in the fun car?
I was averaging about 5K miles a year on the motorcycle out of a total of about 20K, but with the G that has plummeted. I don't think I will break 2K this year and I'm honestly thinking about selling the bike or taking it off the road and doing track days. I don't do "fun drives to nowhere"... my commute is pretty sweet, sim racing is enough for my lizard brain, and I just don't have the time. IS there some minimal mileage before you would say the 2nd car's not worth it?
It breaks down something like:
4Runner: 18k-20k miles
S2000: 4-5k miles
I don't get all that much use out of the S2000. Mostly because it's so tiring to drive to work and back. It sounds silly, but if I drive it during the summer, 50-60 mins with the top down each way, in stop and go traffic on the high way, I'm exhausted by the time I get home. With big 18 wheelers blowing exhaust and rumbling next to me, then all the squeaks buzzes and rattles from the car itself...it's deafening.
I've tracked down two of the big noise issues with the car this week (the passenger seat rattles and clunks a ton. Rearview mirror is also rattling a lot). Still, the tire noise, buzzing clutch issue, wind noise, etc, it's loud. That's one of the big reasons I was considering an ND miata. Much, much nicer place to be in. Much more compliant suspension, less road noise, none of the issues a 17 year old car has, more torque at lower speeds. I think if I made that switch, I'd probably come much closer to 16k miles in the 4Runner, and 8k miles in a miata.
Ear plugs. :huh:
Quote from: Laconian on August 18, 2017, 12:12:30 PM
The traffic here is what kills my driving happiness.
Here too.
I enjoy driving, if it's out on a twisty country road, but that's like < 2% of my driving and even then is usually in the 4Runner or a rental car if we're on vacation somewhere. Best driving I got to do in the M3 was when we picked it up. Same with the C6.
On the mornings I ride the Harley into work, I enjoy the bikes ability to pass slow ass drivers, and it's acceleration. But, my other two vehicles are both six cylinder full size trucks, so.. ;)
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 18, 2017, 11:58:16 AM
Dude you've been talking about doing track days for years and have yet to do one. Be honest with yourself. You scare yourself driving on the street.
It's not a matter of fear of speed... if that were the case I wouldn't drive the way I do. It's a matter of time. Getting to and from the track is like 3 hours. Then getting enough sessions in to make it worth it would be another couple. Gotta eat and stuff down there too. And of course there is the cost.... suit... trailer... consumables... and of course track fees
Compare that to sim racing, the kart track 10 minutes from my house, taking the back roads on my commute..... it's tough. If I was in NYC or something maybe but I get enough thrills for cheap/free :huh:
And now with the G even the bike is becoming redundant. I'd rather get a slow steady drip of thrills than have to go out of my way for a big hit like 2-3x/yr. Thankfully I don't have to deal with traffic and that's not even counting the lane expansions they are doing on my commute's interstate.
Yeah, that's why I sold my "track" CBR and the dirt bike. Too much effort to get out there.
I might get a dual sport to ride to and from the trails though.
That's why you get an El Camino. Fun to drive on twisty roads, but also cool to just cruise around in. If you don't stare at your car when you cruise past storefront windows, yer doin' it wrong. Also, going to car shows and autox events is a blast. Not even the driving part - I've made dozens of friends through car shows.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2017, 02:55:42 PM
It's not a matter of fear of speed... if that were the case I wouldn't drive the way I do. It's a matter of time. Getting to and from the track is like 3 hours. Then getting enough sessions in to make it worth it would be another couple. Gotta eat and stuff down there too. And of course there is the cost.... suit... trailer... consumables... and of course track fees
Compare that to sim racing, the kart track 10 minutes from my house, taking the back roads on my commute..... it's tough. If I was in NYC or something maybe but I get enough thrills for cheap/free :huh:
And now with the G even the bike is becoming redundant. I'd rather get a slow steady drip of thrills than have to go out of my way for a big hit like 2-3x/yr. Thankfully I don't have to deal with traffic and that's not even counting the lane expansions they are doing on my commute's interstate.
There's the honesty I was looking for...clearly you're not gonna do track days.
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 18, 2017, 03:55:59 PM
There's the honesty I was looking for...clearly you're not gonna do track days.
It's fun to say :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2017, 04:12:34 PM
It's fun to say :huh:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf
I'd love to do a 2-3 day driving school sometime, but I have zero interest in tracking my own car.
I have that BMW thing coming up :rockon:
I feel like that BMW thing is close enough to me that I could make a trip out of it. I'd love to do it at Road Atlanta
Quote from: Lebowski on August 18, 2017, 04:36:54 PM
I'd love to do a 2-3 day driving school sometime, but I have zero interest in tracking my own car.
:hmm:
Quote from: Laconian on August 18, 2017, 04:47:14 PM
I have that BMW thing coming up :rockon:
When?
Quote from: Lebowski on August 18, 2017, 04:36:54 PM
I'd love to do a 2-3 day driving school sometime, but I have zero interest in tracking my own car.
Same.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2017, 09:38:24 AM
Question I have for MrH/r0tor....
From what it sounds like, you guys have shitty commutes, shitty roads and shitty weather for a good portion of the year. How many miles do you drive a year, and how many of those miles are in the fun car?
I was averaging about 5K miles a year on the motorcycle out of a total of about 20K, but with the G that has plummeted. I don't think I will break 2K this year and I'm honestly thinking about selling the bike or taking it off the road and doing track days. I don't do "fun drives to nowhere"... my commute is pretty sweet, sim racing is enough for my lizard brain, and I just don't have the time. IS there some minimal mileage before you would say the 2nd car's not worth it?
I drive around 12-15k miles a year.
Traditionally about 5k miles of that is in the Mazda. I try to drive it whenever its >40 degs and dry outside, but with my new high speed all highway commute the road noise and engine screaming it doesn't get me too excited to take it to work the the mileage might come down.
I'm not really excited about tracking my RF, still too protective about its good looks to throw it into a tire wall. :rage:
(https://i2.wp.com/supplementpolice.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Metamucil.jpg?w=500&ssl=1)
Quote from: r0tor on August 18, 2017, 05:33:17 PM
I drive around 12-15k miles a year.
Traditionally about 5k miles of that is in the Mazda. I try to drive it whenever its >40 degs and dry outside, but with my new high speed all highway commute the road noise and engine screaming it doesn't get me too excited to take it to work the the mileage might come down.
http://www.autotempest.com/results/?make=porsche&model=macan&radius=any&zip=90210&domesticonly=1&minprice=&maxprice=50000&minyear=2012&maxyear=&minmiles=&maxmiles=&bodystyle=any&keywords=s&transmission=any&saleby=any
http://www.autotempest.com/results/?make=bmw&model=x4&radius=any&zip=90210&domesticonly=1&minprice=&maxprice=50000&minyear=2012&maxyear=&minmiles=&maxmiles=&bodystyle=any&keywords=xdrive35i&transmission=any&saleby=any
Mecan is too small... I've looked and tried to justify it, but its clearly not designed for a family.
I hate the coupe SUVs. I have been looking at CPO X5's especially with the "dynamic handling package" (active roll bars and torque vectoring rear diff) and want to see how the new X3 is. I think the daily drive would be much better in them compared to either of my 2 cars, but I'd still keep the Mazda going this route for those extra special nice days.
Saw an X6 with the V8 today... between the shape and the exhaust note, such a ridiculous machine :lol:
I think a properly equipped X3 could do the trick, but I still loathe IDrive and the lack of redundant steering wheel controls to make up for it. Maybe an F-Pace?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2017, 06:47:21 PM
Saw an X6 with the V8 today... between the shape and the exhaust note, such a ridiculous machine :lol:
I think a properly equipped X3 could do the trick, but I still loathe IDrive and the lack of redundant steering wheel controls to make up for it. Maybe an F-Pace?
.
IDrive is like one thousand times better than whatever that Jag has. And the F Paces interior is subpar.
I love the outside design of the F-Pace and it is the right size. The interior is pretty bad to be honest. Jag reliability is a but scary and their infotainment is ridiculous infuriating.
Still might take one for a test drive some day.
I do think morally I have a problem of spending $50k on a bmw and it not being the M3 I asked to get for the last decade
The next M3 will probably have higher ground clearance and AWD anyway, to make it more SUV like
Quote from: r0tor on August 18, 2017, 08:33:33 PM
I love the outside design of the F-Pace and it is the right size. The interior is pretty bad to be honest. Jag reliability is a but scary and their infotainment is ridiculous infuriating.
Still might take one for a test drive some day.
The infotainment isn't too bad. A few functions are unnecessarily annoying to get into, but the basics are fine -- at least on the optional larger screen.
My main litmus test for infotainment is the steering wheel controls. That's a huge part of what makes the MKX tolerable. Seems like the F-Pace is OK on that front:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/rlY1_eqZ9oA/maxresdefault.jpg)
Though it loses points for a lack of redundancy (touch, but no jogwheel or knobs it seems)
Infotainment is really where modern cars fall off though. JFC,
I tried it and it seemed like it wanted to freeze up just flipping through the screens like a 5 year old smartphone
The wife and I saw a X5 M Sport on the road yesterday. I pointed it out and asked what she thought about it. The reaction was pretty much "replace the jeep with that".
Progress...
That's a pricey replacement.
I can find 2 year old Cpo examples with <20k miles for the low 40s... add in another couple grand for a M Performance Power Kit and M Performance Exhaust
I had thought of a new X3 but that would be in the 50s. Same for a Disco. F Pace would be in the upper 40s probably. New JGC (which I don't want) would be low 40s. So yea it's pricey, but so is most other mid sized SUVs.
X5 is a big girl, I feel like X3/F-Pace class is the better fit
Quote from: r0tor on August 21, 2017, 11:12:33 AM
I can find 2 year old Cpo examples with <20k miles for the low 40s... add in another couple grand for a M Performance Power Kit and M Performance Exhaust
I had thought of a new X3 but that would be in the 50s. Same for a Disco. F Pace would be in the upper 40s probably. New JGC (which I don't want) would be low 40s. So yea it's pricey, but so is most other mid sized SUVs.
If you can test the V8. Ours is really stupid fast. And it gets very reasonable MPGs highway. I've managed almost 25.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 21, 2017, 11:32:04 AM
X5 is a big girl, I feel like X3/F-Pace class is the better fit
It is smaller than most of its competitors like the Q7 and the XC90. Unless you really want 3 rows.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 21, 2017, 11:32:04 AM
X5 is a big girl, I feel like X3/F-Pace class is the better fit
It's within a couple inches of the JGC.
I'd go X3 but I just could never get myself to like the proportions of them. Maybe it's better with the new gen, but the current one just looks too "wimpy" I guess would be an adequate word.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on August 21, 2017, 02:36:38 PM
If you can test the V8. Ours is really stupid fast. And it gets very reasonable MPGs highway. I've managed almost 25.
It is smaller than most of its competitors like the Q7 and the XC90. Unless you really want 3 rows.
I'll probably just go for a 35i and add the Mppk... Close to 300hp at the wheels and low to mid 5 sec 0-60 time should be adequate
I will say, driving an X3 does feel wimpy. My brother in law works for BMW financial and gets a new company car every four months or so. He's had multiple X3s. Get the X5.
Or get a 5 series GT :thumpsup:
LMAO... This would be great
https://youtu.be/HI7XetsXVtc
Why are you laughing your ass off at that...? :nutty:
I am highly amused with an SUV who's exhaust note is filled with murder and rage on demand
Ahhhh X5. Yeah, now I get it.