(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/g9u7u1z4esp05oreig08.jpg)
Parts I care about:
2.0T + 10AT as base engine, V6TT in the future
SH-AWD!
Good looks
Depending on lease deals this could replace the MKX brand new. But no time soon
Show me the ILX now
Technically this is a "Concept".
I don't know, it's as ugly/anonymous as the current model. Wouldn't get me out of my theoretical XC60 or Lexus NX
This has a way better drive/powertrain than either, along with a way better infotainment interface.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 15, 2018, 10:27:14 AM
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/g9u7u1z4esp05oreig08.jpg)
Parts I care about:
2.0T + 10AT as base engine, V6TT in the future
SH-AWD!
Good looks
Depending on lease deals this could replace the MKX brand new. But no time soon
Show me the ILX now
Thank god they brought back SH-AWD. I recall reading that this will be materially different from the CRV, which is really good news.
Looks pretty decent. Is it CRV based (ie is interior and exterior space / dimensions about the same)? I'd be curious to see if and how they can improve upon CUV perfection that is the CRV.
Quote from: Lebowski on January 15, 2018, 11:05:09 AM
Looks pretty decent. Is it CRV based (ie is interior and exterior space / dimensions about the same)? I'd be curious to see if and how they can improve upon CUV perfection that is the CRV.
Acura is saying it's a platform "not related to Honda" but I think that's bullshit. It would make no sense for them to not base it on the CR-V. They are probably citing SH-AWD as the unique factor. Not sure why they would want to sever the link; CR-V chassis is from the gods.
I don't understand why they would unlink the RDX/CR-V either. It's prolly a really nice Civic chassis jacked up in the air.
Speaking of RDX, I straight up forgot the 1st gen existed
(https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/1170x1170/54/img1862339118-1469575277554.jpg)
Quote from: 2o6 on January 15, 2018, 10:28:41 AM
Technically this is a "Concept".
Honda concepts are usually pretty close to the final product.
Glad to see it's still being built with Supa Handuru AWD
Quote from: Laconian on January 15, 2018, 12:41:14 PM
Glad to see it's still being built with Supa Handuru AWD
:lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on January 15, 2018, 11:56:30 AM
I don't understand why they would unlink the RDX/CR-V either.
People don't want to pay big money for a Honda. They have to differetiate somehow?...
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 15, 2018, 06:30:18 PM
People don't want to pay big money for a Honda. They have to differetiate somehow?...
From a branding perspective sure but if it truly is "unrelated" to the CRV platform that sounds odd. I'm guessing just a marketing spin.
IIRC SH-AWD really is a slick system, no? Better than the standard haldex type AWD systems for sure, and supposedly aas good as Nissan's system (ATTESA or something? basically can shift power side to side as well as front to back).
Quote from: Lebowski on January 16, 2018, 07:26:51 AM
From a branding perspective sure but if it truly is “unrelated” to the CRV platform that sounds odd. I’m guessing just a marketing spin.
I would hope so, I can't see it making much economic sense to keep them separate and unrelated.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 16, 2018, 07:47:22 AM
IIRC SH-AWD really is a slick system, no? Better than the standard haldex type AWD systems for sure, and supposedly aas good as Nissan's system (ATTESA or something? basically can shift power side to side as well as front to back).
Yea it definitely helps the vehicle rotate and stay on its intended line. I imagine it can help with fuel economy too. I want to say it seems a little silly in a crossover, but with decent tires and suspension I think it can work for a street vehicle. Just thinking about the on/off ramps, diamond exchanges and roundabouts this would come in handy at.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 16, 2018, 08:17:14 AM
Yea it definitely helps the vehicle rotate and stay on its intended line. I imagine it can help with fuel economy too. I want to say it seems a little silly in a crossover, but with decent tires and suspension I think it can work for a street vehicle. Just thinking about the on/off ramps, diamond exchanges and roundabouts this would come in handy at.
I've driven a 1st gen RDX with SH-AWD. It feels like a bigger, laggier EVO X as it powers out of a corner which is really cool. Under power you have practically RWD dynamics.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 15, 2018, 10:28:41 AM
Technically this is a "Concept".
I don't know, it's as ugly/anonymous as the current model. Wouldn't get me out of my theoretical XC60 or Lexus NX
Doesn't that depend on how it drives? The XC60 is more luxury than sport, and the NX could have more mechanical sophistication and a much nicer interior.
My only RDX complaint would be some excess Mazda CX-5 emulation in the profile, but that's not a bad one to ape.
Honda TT V6 is super ultra relevant to my interests. Looks like it will be used throughout the Acura line for Type S models. About Jesus time - the J series is more than 20 years old and hasn't done squat in 10...
Quote from: SJ_GTI on January 16, 2018, 07:47:22 AM
IIRC SH-AWD really is a slick system, no? Better than the standard haldex type AWD systems for sure, and supposedly aas good as Nissan's system (ATTESA or something? basically can shift power side to side as well as front to back).
So SH-AWD has a torque vectoring rear differential, so it can send more power to the outside rear wheel to rotate the car. It was fairly revolutionary when it came out. The weak spot has always been the rather weak "center differential" (clutches in this application) and how much (and reliably) it can transfer power from front to rear.
There are a host of systems now that can do the same mechanical rear wheel torque vectoring and a ton more that simulate it with braking. Some mechanical players include Audi, BMW, Porsche, Focus RS, LR Evoque, LR Disco Sport, ect most of which have a more robust rear power take off ("center differential").
It's possible that this generation of SH-AWD will have more robust center diffs now that TT V6s are in the mix. I imagine they've taken some learnings from the development of the NSX as well.
J series engine is OK. It's at least as powerful and/or as efficient as the current crop of 2.0Ts. It's just down behind other current 6 cylinder engines. Like the VQ (almost exactly actually) it's been due for an update. We will see how these turbo Hondas hold up but I am keeping the faith.
Don't know, it just seems odd to me (or a marketing gimmick) to do all this work on a rear diff and combine it to a heavily fwd biased awd system.
Quote from: r0tor on January 17, 2018, 06:49:21 AM
Don't know, it just seems odd to me (or a marketing gimmick) to do all this work on a rear diff and combine it to a heavily fwd biased awd system.
Don't forget the "acceleration device" on the RL versions of SHAWD that can overdrive the rear wheels over 5% versus the front wheels in addiction the the torque vectoring rear dif. :lol:
Quote from: 68_427 on January 17, 2018, 04:40:42 PM
Don't forget the "acceleration device" on the RL versions of SHAWD that can overdrive the rear wheels over 5% versus the front wheels in addiction the the torque vectoring rear dif. :lol:
An overdrive unit for the rears? Cooooool
Quote from: Laconian on January 17, 2018, 04:56:14 PM
An overdrive unit for the rears? Cooooool
Yes. Pretty sure it was RL/Legend exclusive
Yet no super ultra magic handling all wheel drive Acura has ever beat an established RWD sports sedan in any comparo in the handling dept. Not BMWs, Infinitis, Audis or these days even Alfas or Mercs.
But I guess it is fantastic anyway.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 17, 2018, 05:36:49 PM
Yet no super ultra magic handling all wheel drive Acura has ever beat an established RWD sports sedan in any comparo in the handling dept. Not BMWs, Infinitis, Audis or these days even Alfas or Mercs.
But I guess it is fantastic anyway.
Pretty sure the last gen TL beat the B8 S4 and 335i in lap times in a C&D test. That has the less sophisticated SHAWD as well.
EDIT: NVM it beat the G37S, and 335i in laptimes, but was slower than the B8 S4.
It still came last in the test though for other reasons
Ranked dead last in both C&D and R&T Comparos.
https://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tl-comparison-test
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-comparison-tests/reviews/a15592/four-door-firepower/
But I am sure it's great. Even more so if it's based on a CR-V. Can't contain my excitement for it. OMG.
You've seen the light
Earthdreams
Quote from: 68_427 on January 17, 2018, 04:40:42 PM
Don't forget the "acceleration device" on the RL versions of SHAWD that can overdrive the rear wheels over 5% versus the front wheels in addiction the the torque vectoring rear dif. :lol:
I still can't even comprehend what that means... There only way the rears are going faster than the front is if they are slipping, but that's pretty much the story for anything with an open center diff. Debateable if it can even send enough power to the rear to power oversteer...
Why spend so much time on the rear diff on a fwd biased awd... Makes no sense
Lol what a strange trigger for MCM
Note how both are comparos against the E90... the current F30 has not been a comparo winner either, which begs the question of why he chose that metric. Dynamically the typical F30, with no sport package, is no better than the Accord the TLX is based on, let alone the TLX. Value wise, not even going to get into it... a fully loaded 6 cylinder TLX costs about as much as a lightly optioned 330i. And comparos don't matter anymore, its not the 90s. Cadillac built comparo winners and their sales tanked :lol:
I'm sure MCM would not have brought up sedan comparo tests if this thread were about BMW's new X2 crossover but nobody cares about that. $ for $ that's just a complete waste of money :lol:
Don't do this man, it's a new year, please don't let me lay out BMW's failings in great detail... I know you cannot deal
... talk about triggered..
We are talking about a crossover and he brings up sport sedans :huh:
...With regards to the dubious benefit of SH-AWD...
Quote from: r0tor on January 18, 2018, 09:10:52 AM
...With regards to the dubious benefit of SH-AWD...
Exactly. But then again in this case I take back my words. SH-AWD, independently of it's handling and fun to drive characteristics, will surely be a life saver for Sporty what with his cars trying to kill him with power oversteer in daily driving.
I think it is a great choice.
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?
Now who's triggered? Simmer down now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?
Subtle. lol
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?
How do we know that the RDX will be such a home run?
Remember when the media was loosing it's mind over the 300 HP the RL's V6 made? Remember when SH-AWD was the next revolution in automotive technology?
Fast forward ten years. Who the hell remembers the RL? Who sing's its virtues? Who cares that it existed? No one.
I'd be absolutely shocked if the RDX would be dynamically better than the X3. The latest implementation of X-Drive is a better solution... Maybe actually the best solution in a handling dynamic perspective
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?
In your profile:
"Its not that serious"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?
I am making fun of your SH-AWD! opening post. This is the Internet. Where discussion and trolling happens.
You troll about my BMW fanboism. I troll back about some of your hard-ons for other brands.From where I am at you contradict yourself a lot.
This is in fun. You got angry. I'll stop. Chill.
Quote from: Submariner on January 18, 2018, 12:18:09 PM
How do we know that the RDX will be such a home run?
Remember when the media was loosing it's mind over the 300 HP the RL's V6 made? Remember when SH-AWD was the next revolution in automotive technology?
Fast forward ten years. Who the hell remembers the RL? Who sing's its virtues? Who cares that it existed? No one.
I was just speaking to what about it is exciting for me. I don't recall saying anything about its market performance. We know how much brand matters in this segment
It wouldn't get me out of my Xc40
Quote from: 2o6 on January 18, 2018, 02:54:56 PM
It wouldn't get me out of my Xc40
I imagine the CDX or whatever they name the Acura HRV will be the XC40 competitor. This is closer to the XC60.
I'm a big fan of SH-AWD. My folks have an 07 MDX that I've driven around a lot (borrow it whenever I need to carry a lot of stuff or people). The dash has a nice graphic meter that shows how much power is going to each wheel, so you can have some idea of how the system works.
When you start, the system starts at roughly 25% to each wheel. As speeds increase, gradually the system goes to nearly completely FWD. If you hammer the throttle, more power is shifted rearwards. The system is anticipatory rather than reactionary, so power starts shifting before any tire spin happens.
Interestingly the system must be keeping some track of loads on each tire, because if you start on a big hill, the system will actually start putting more power to the rear wheels than the fronts. Start on a really steep hill and really give it a lot of gas, and it looks like the system is operating like a rear wheel drive car.
When you go into a corner under power, things get really interesting. I think what people don't realize is how aggressive this system is in sending power to the outside wheel. If you nail the throttle in any decent corner, ALL of the power is going to the outside wheel based on the gauge. The rear inside wheel basically gets nothing.
The feeling from behind the wheel is quite unique. I'm currently daily driving a G37xS which has Nissan's ATTESSA system. The ATTESSA system drives very similar to a rear wheel drive car, since the system is mostly rear wheel drive most of the time, and can send some power to the fronts when things get slippery. Honestly I don't feel it driving much different from a rear wheel drive car (like the Z06), unless conditions are slippery and the system moves some power to the front. Even then I feel like the ATTESSA system doesn't move that much power forwards to really change the general feeling of the G37x being a rear wheel drive vehicle. I wish the G37xS had a similar meter to show me what the system is doing with power.
The SH-AWD feels entirely different from the ATTESSA system. When you hammer it on dry pavement, even without any wheel spin, you can feel something is different as the system is working. As you put on more power, you can feel a force rotating or moving the car towards the apex of the corner. It feels entirely different from a rear wheel drive car on the verge of oversteer, and goes beyond simply correcting for the natural understeer of a front wheel drive car. I imagine it will feel disconcerting to some, but once you get used to it, it's actually quite addictive.
Basically every time I borrow the MDX, I end up hammering it way too hard around corners. I would definitely consider an Acura with a twin turbo V6 and SH-AWD.
EDIT: After I wrote that I looked up some stuff on Youtube. Apparently SH-AWD can send up to 90% of power to the rear wheels (in the older systems, less than that in the newer systems), and indeed up to 100% of that sent to just to 1 rear wheel. This is in line with what I've seen from the gauges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz9ol5zy5nk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuUaqFnsb2M
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 17, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Ranked dead last in both C&D and R&T Comparos.
https://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tl-comparison-test
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-comparison-tests/reviews/a15592/four-door-firepower/
But I am sure it's great. Even more so if it's based on a CR-V. Can't contain my excitement for it. OMG.
And so how often does BMW win these things these days, even against something so as a Camaro?
TLX w/SH-AWD + say a ~350-375 hp TTV6 is mega, if Honda manages to get the slushie AT right (TBD).
Torque plus AT plus Honda equals :(
10AT is not enough ATs.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 19, 2018, 12:21:33 AM
And so how often does BMW win these things these days, even against something so as a Camaro?
TLX w/SH-AWD + say a ~350-375 hp TTV6 is mega, if Honda manages to get the slushie AT right (TBD).
BMW basically never wins comparos anymore in US magazines. Still wins a lot in Euro mags however.
Funnily enough the only recent wins in C&D are for crossovers:
https://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-audi-q3-quattro-vs-2016-bmw-x1-xdrive28i-2017-infiniti-qx30-awd-2016-lexus-nx200t-f-sport-awd-2016-mercedes-benz-gla250-4matic-comparison-test
The new X3 has been getting good reviews but not a lot of comparos out yet as far as I know.
I have no idea if it will or will not be "better" than this RDX. I just think the whole "super-handling all wheel drive" hype, starting with the name, has been and continues to be ridiculous. It is an ok AWD system. "Super handling" lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBIUx4Tma7A
That's pretty impressive. The Acura was scratching its head for a while...
A locker doesn't scratch its head.
Big deal.
http://youtu.be/Znb_0RPS9Eg (http://youtu.be/Znb_0RPS9Eg)
SH-AWD is definitely above average. There are competitors now though who can do the same.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 19, 2018, 11:31:16 AM
"Super handling" lol.
"Super handling" is a very Japanese superlative. Don't take it so seriously.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 19, 2018, 12:07:56 PM
A locker doesn't scratch its head.
Lockers also like to go in straight lines regardless of where you want to go.
Given the choice, on an off-road rig, I'd choose them too; but for the kind of messes most people get in, these electronic versions work, and the drivers don't have to think about it.
It's sort of insanity though so much time an money is spent trying to replicate the basic functionality of fairly cheap old school tech.
A basic center diff + rear lsd is probably better then 70% of the crap awd systems on the market today
So the chief engineer states they have a next gen SH-AWD that can now send 40% more power to the rear than before (around 4:30).
So if they were claiming to send 90% to the rear before - WTF :confused:
https://youtu.be/_vqhDVkAEjk
Quote from: r0tor on January 19, 2018, 07:59:55 PM
So the chief engineer states they have a next gen SH-AWD that can now send 40% more power to the rear than before (around 4:30).
So if they were claiming to send 90% to the rear before - WTF :confused:
https://youtu.be/_vqhDVkAEjk
The video explains it. The older SH AWD system in the RL had an accelerator device that will drive the rear wheels up to 5.7% faster than the fronts allowing more rear transfer than the newer SH AWD systems.
Doesn't look too bad in person, a bit much grill and chrome for my taste but in the context of IMO acura's generally terrible styling it looks pretty good inside and out. Looks decent sized inside too.