I wouldn't be a good millennial if I didn't trade in my sensible hatchback for a slow, expensive SUV.
+ it's super cool looking, definitely striking and sexy
+ Toyota was offering a very good lease deal, $199 month with like $1999 down
+ the interior is well finished and feels high quality
+ the steering is much better than most modern Toyota products I've driven
+ it corners fairly flat for being a tall SUV type thing
+ driving position and interior legroom is pretty good
+ standard radar cruise and lane keep assist is nifty
- it's slow as dirt. This 2.0L only makes 6HP more than the 1.4T in my Sonic, but it weighs 700Lbs more
- this thing stickered at like 24k. Granted, you get a lot, but that's past loaded out Corolla and base Camry territory
- CVT auto only
- no AWD vairiant avaliable
- rearward visibility is awful
- no Apple CarPlay or android auto
- slow
- bouncy ride, despite having a more sophisticated suspension setup than my Sonic and weighing more
- expensive
\
(https://s14.postimg.org/aemi4185d/C-_HR.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Trying to figure out the appeal... Failing
Looks nice inside and out, but I'm surprised that AWD isn't an option.
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2018, 10:06:11 AM
Trying to figure out the appeal... Failing
It's an HR-V type thing, but no AWD and more expensive. Despite it's slowness, with a manual I prolly would have bought one.
Quote from: Submariner on January 20, 2018, 10:07:30 AM
Looks nice inside and out, but I'm surprised that AWD isn't an option.
That's a good question. Toyota says that US consumers don't care, but I think that's a lie. AWD comes on this car in other markets (but with a 1.2L Turbo with like 115HP).
It seems to me to be a slow, poor handling, no room, and no AWD hatch thing that is selling for a relatively high price... Basically combining the worst properties of small hatches, econo boxes, and poser cuvs into 1 ultimate in terrible package.
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2018, 10:14:38 AM
It seems to me to be a slow, poor handling, no room, and no AWD hatch thing that is selling for a relatively high price... Basically combining the worst properties of small hatches, econo boxes, and poser cuvs into 1 ultimate in terrible package.
But it's not bad handling. And it's spacious.... :huh:
It's just missing AWD, and it's slow.
Looks like a bottom-feeding creature with a face 4x too big for its body. I don't see a single redeeming feature with this vehicle.
I actually like this thing. I don't think it's that ugly either.
Echoing others, surprising Toyota didn't try and put AWD in this thing. They did in the Matrix 10 years prior.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 20, 2018, 12:12:07 PM
Echoing others, surprising Toyota didn't try and put AWD in this thing. They did in the Matrix 10 years prior.
Considering how useless the RAV4 awd is, it probably doesn't matter
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2018, 12:54:42 PM
Considering how useless the RAV4 awd is, it probably doesn't matter
But to the average buyer, its very important either way.
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2018, 12:54:42 PM
Considering how useless the RAV4 awd is, it probably doesn't matter
For what the vast majority of drivers would want/use it for, it serves its purpose. No, you're not going to go mudding or blazing trails through bumper-deep snow with it, but for negotiating slick/icy/snowy roads with a couple of inches of snow on them, it's better than just open-diff FWD.
I was in Park City today and an AWD CR-V struggled up a hill slightly more than I did in my FWD Mazda6. :praise:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 20, 2018, 04:38:02 PM
I was in Park City today and an AWD CR-V struggled up a hill slightly more than I did in my FWD Mazda6. :praise:
I've out-accelerated any number of AWD vehicles in my Jetta with all-seasons on it so far this winter.
The AWD systems on a lot of those vehicles isn't great. A good driver in a FWD could probably manage to get through most anything one of those AWDs could handle. But most people aren't good drivers. Most people are marginal in the driving skill department and have little grasp of throttle control and analog traction management. For these people, a mediocre 80/20 AWD system is just that little bit of extra traction to help get up that moderately slippery hill.
My Karmann Ghia with studded 165 80R 15's was an unstoppable winter beast.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 20, 2018, 04:54:29 PM
My Karmann Ghia with studded 165 80R 15's was an unstoppable winter beast.
No power, skinny wheels, and what little weight the car had focused on the drive wheels. Yeah, I'd believe that.
Jesus Christ...
(https://i2.wp.com/practicalmotoring.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2017-Toyota-C-HR-review17.jpg?ssl=1)
Quote from: MX793 on January 20, 2018, 05:04:52 PM
No power, skinny wheels, and what little weight the car had focused on the drive wheels. Yeah, I'd believe that.
No shit, I've driven that thing in some pretty horrendous conditions back in Nfld.
Quote from: Submariner on January 20, 2018, 05:08:41 PM
Jesus Christ...
(https://i2.wp.com/practicalmotoring.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2017-Toyota-C-HR-review17.jpg?ssl=1)
Yeah, posted that before and had a good laugh.
Are you suposed to just hazard a guess what is behind you?
Quote from: MX793 on January 20, 2018, 04:45:50 PM
I've out-accelerated any number of AWD vehicles in my Jetta with all-seasons on it so far this winter.
The AWD systems on a lot of those vehicles isn't great. A good driver in a FWD could probably manage to get through most anything one of those AWDs could handle. But most people aren't good drivers. Most people are marginal in the driving skill department and have little grasp of throttle control and analog traction management. For these people, a mediocre 80/20 AWD system is just that little bit of extra traction to help get up that moderately slippery hill.
My strategy today was simply POWAAAARRRRR. It was mainly deep slush, so wheelspin would cut through it after a second or two. Maintaining momentum was the best strategy.
I actually liked the CR-V I had a few years back. The little bit of rear assist really did help in snow.
Quote from: MX793 on January 20, 2018, 04:29:48 PM
For what the vast majority of drivers would want/use it for, it serves its purpose. No, you're not going to go mudding or blazing trails through bumper-deep snow with it, but for negotiating slick/icy/snowy roads with a couple of inches of snow on them, it's better than just open-diff FWD.
Ummm.... It's can send about 15% of it's power to the rear and defaults to pretty much fwd anytime your over 20mph
Worthless awd
Did you buy it or just reviewed it? I am confused.
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2018, 06:36:20 PM
Ummm.... It's can send about 15% of it's power to the rear and defaults to pretty much fwd anytime your over 20mph
Worthless awd
Once you're moving and carrying some momentum, you really don't need AWD, so that it doesn't work above 20 mph is moot for what most people buying AWD RAVs need AWD for. People want it to help them get moving from a stop on moderately slick roads with and inch or two of snow on them. They aren't looking to crawl through deep mud, sand, or snow.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 20, 2018, 11:09:39 PM
Did you buy it or just reviewed it? I am confused.
Just reviewed, but the lease offer did make me think twice
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2018, 06:36:20 PM
Ummm.... It's can send about 15% of it's power to the rear and defaults to pretty much fwd anytime your over 20mph
Worthless awd
Have you actually driven a CR-V et al in the snow?
I forgot these Toyota CR-H/H-CR/RCH/whatever things existed. I saw one yesterday afternoon; like a Nissan Juke but even fuglier. That they don't even come with AWD is pretty much the turd cherry on top of the shit pile. Makes me think of a miniature Acura ZDX, and we all know how well those faired for Honda...
Quote from: 93JC on January 21, 2018, 04:02:44 PM
pretty much the turd cherry on top of the shit pile.
:lol: :golfclap:
Quote from: 93JC on January 21, 2018, 04:02:44 PM
I forgot these Toyota CR-H/H-CR/RCH/whatever things existed. I saw one yesterday afternoon; like a Nissan Juke but even fuglier. That they don't even come with AWD is pretty much the turd cherry on top of the shit pile. Makes me think of a miniature Acura ZDX, and we all know how well those faired for Honda...
The ZDX was both expensive and had no rear headroom. This is expensive for it's class (like 3K over an HR-V.....) whereas the ZDX was expensive period and really tight inside.
This has real accommodations in the rear.
IDK, I think it's funky and cool :huh:
With a manual, I might have done it.
Quote from: 93JC on January 21, 2018, 04:02:44 PM
I forgot these Toyota CR-H/H-CR/RCH/whatever things existed. I saw one yesterday afternoon; like a Nissan Juke but even fuglier. That they don't even come with AWD is pretty much the turd cherry on top of the shit pile. Makes me think of a miniature Acura ZDX, and we all know how well those faired for Honda...
From the Wiki page for the ZDX...
Introduced in April 2009 as a 2010 model, the ZDX was discontinued after the 2013 model year due to poor sales even though it was the only Acura to offer a panoramic moonroof. Looking to the numbers: We find ZDX to be the rarest of U.S. manufactured Acura offerings, with a total of 7191 vehicles produced and sold in North America.I like how they threw the moonroof bit in as if that should've been the key selling point. :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on January 21, 2018, 04:21:12 PM
This has real accommodations in the rear.
I find that incredibly hard to believe. In fact, I don't believe it! :lol:
QuoteIDK, I think it's funky and cool :huh:
I think it's trying too hard to be funky and cool. :huh:
There's space in the back seat. Just no windows.
Quote from: MX793 on January 21, 2018, 04:50:54 PM
There's space in the back seat. Just no windows.
There's space in my closet. Not a place I enjoy spending time though.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 21, 2018, 04:22:32 PM
From the Wiki page for the ZDX...
Introduced in April 2009 as a 2010 model, the ZDX was discontinued after the 2013 model year due to poor sales even though it was the only Acura to offer a panoramic moonroof. Looking to the numbers: We find ZDX to be the rarest of U.S. manufactured Acura offerings, with a total of 7191 vehicles produced and sold in North America.
I like how they threw the moonroof bit in as if that should've been the key selling point. :lol:
What a weird statement. Are cars with moonroofs usually top sellers?
Quote from: 2o6 on January 21, 2018, 08:36:06 AM
Have you actually driven a CR-V et al in the snow?
About 6 or 7 years ago... My rwd car was better
Quote from: MX793 on January 21, 2018, 07:54:50 AM
Once you're moving and carrying some momentum, you really don't need AWD, so that it doesn't work above 20 mph is moot for what most people buying AWD RAVs need AWD for. People want it to help them get moving from a stop on moderately slick roads with and inch or two of snow on them. They aren't looking to crawl through deep mud, sand, or snow.
Sure, if you don't mind driving it like a few car and dealing with massive fwd understeer
Quote from: r0tor on January 21, 2018, 08:10:11 PM
About 6 or 7 years ago... My rwd car was better
Quote from: r0tor on January 21, 2018, 08:12:02 PM
Sure, if you don't mind driving it like a few car and dealing with massive fwd understeer
Have you driven
any car in the snow?
Quote from: 2o6 on January 21, 2018, 09:40:27 PM
Have you driven any car in the snow?
He buries it to the floorboards on the daily.
Quote from: 93JC on January 21, 2018, 04:46:25 PM
I find that incredibly hard to believe. In fact, I don't believe it! :lol:
'
One thing, the C-HR is actually not as small as you think. On the showroom next to the RAV4, it's only slightly shorter, and lower, but nearly the same width. It's less of a gulf of size difference between the HR-V and C-RV, or Trax and Equinox.
It's sort of like Juke, but slower and FWD only. But unlike the Juke, this car is far better made, doesn't feel incredibly tight inside (the Juke feels very tight inside and the Juke's trunk is a joke), and has better fuel economy.
The Juke was a special car, though, and the C-HR is nowhere near as charismatic. But, if you're lured in by the styling and are OK with the base price, the C-HR is a fine car.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 21, 2018, 09:45:22 PM
One thing, the C-HR is actually not as small as you think.
Duuuuuude, I said I saw one
just yesterday: I know exactly how big one is. I can believe it has more room than one would think given the exterior styling, but your idea of spacious and my idea of spacious aren't the same.
QuoteBut, if you're lured in by the styling...
Good God, why would
anyone be "lured in by the styling". LOL
Idk I like the way it looks. It's got stance and presence.
I wish the Powertrain was better, though.
Quote from: r0tor on January 21, 2018, 08:12:02 PM
Sure, if you don't mind driving it like a few car and dealing with massive fwd understeer
Again, most drivers are not particularly skilled with car control. Most drivers cope better with, if not prefer, understeer to oversteer. Your typical Rav buyer is likely coming from a FWD passenger car, so the driving dynamics will be familiar. For the type of driver the AWD Rav is marketed to, the AWD system does exactly what is expected of it by the consumer.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 21, 2018, 09:40:27 PM
Have you driven any car in the snow?
Nope... Never... You got me
Quote from: MX793 on January 22, 2018, 05:02:08 AM
Again, most drivers are not particularly skilled with car control. Most drivers cope better with, if not prefer, understeer to oversteer. Your typical Rav buyer is likely coming from a FWD passenger car, so the driving dynamics will be familiar. For the type of driver the AWD Rav is marketed to, the AWD system does exactly what is expected of it by the consumer.
Rav 4 on the side of a hill.... Massive spinning of the front tires, followed by a jolt of the rears kicking in... Followed by more front wheel spinning after the AWD disengages again
I'm sure it's fine on wet roads like the RAV4 commercial from a few months ago shows
Quote from: r0tor on January 22, 2018, 05:18:50 AM
Rav 4 on the side of a hill.... Massive spinning of the front tires, followed by a jolt of the rears kicking in... Followed by more front wheel spinning after the AWD disengages again
I'm sure it's fine on wet roads like the RAV4 commercial from a few months ago shows
Which is how any FWD car drives in the snow. Someone coming from a Corolla or Camry will be accustomed to FWD wander.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 21, 2018, 09:45:22 PM
One thing, the C-HR is actually not as small as you think. On the showroom next to the RAV4, it's only slightly shorter, and lower, but nearly the same width. It's less of a gulf of size difference between the HR-V and C-RV, or Trax and Equinox.
Methinks you should look at the spec sheets instead of trusting your eyes.
L/W/WB
HRV - 169.1/69.7/102.8
CRV - 180.6/73/104.7
Difference - 11.5/3.3/1.9
C-HR - 171.7/70.7/103.9
Rav4 - 183.5/72.6/104.7
Difference - 11.8/1.9/.8
The length difference between a Rav and C-HR is significant, and even slightly larger than that between an HRV and CRV. Width and wheelbase are closer than the two Honda's are, but we're talking barely over an inch.
Quote from: MX793 on January 22, 2018, 05:02:08 AM
Again, most drivers are not particularly skilled with car control. Most drivers cope better with, if not prefer, understeer to oversteer. Your typical Rav buyer is likely coming from a FWD passenger car, so the driving dynamics will be familiar. For the type of driver the AWD Rav is marketed to, the AWD system does exactly what is expected of it by the consumer.
Most AWD usefulness is from like 0-20 MPH, like getting unstuck. If you're spinning or cornering, drive wheels don't even matter if you're not applying throttle.
They're fine, and I really question how some of y'all (rotor) drive in snow. I'm from the snow belt and I've never really had too much trouble with the FWD small cars with all-seasons. When I had the CR-V and Escape, they were even more confident in the snow then the FWD small sedans I was used to.
RT4WD doesn't apply much torque to the rear, but having it come in based upon the conditions Honda specifies is fine for 99% of drivers. The more beneficial advantage to the CR-V and kin is the elevated ride height/ground clearance over a sedan.
Also most of these SUV things drive virtually the same in bad weather on the street. You shouldn't be flying around corners anyways.
I saw a red one of these this morning. They really ARE handsome, I would guess they sell well.
Remember that MOST people don't read car mags and have no idea that Buick is the same company as GMC. They buy off of looks and what they think they need in a vehicle.
Puzzling why in carspin people feel the need to defend a shit product. It's bad when even Consumer Reports says the AWD system is shit.
https://youtu.be/k-TQdIqFvZo
That video kind of called the notion "AWD=only good for a straight line" into question. It sounds like Subaru's AWD is working to make the car corner better too.
Of course it doesn't help with braking though.
Quote from: Laconian on January 22, 2018, 02:41:23 PM
That video kind of called the notion "AWD=only good for a straight line" into question. It sounds like Subaru's AWD is working to make the car corner better too.
Of course it doesn't help with braking though.
Decent AWD has a huge impact when driving in the snow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_MXK2nzt2Y
Not snow but still, an amazing contrast. AWD seems more like a checkbox than an actual useful feature for many of these CUVs.
There's AWD and "AWD." Should be a distinction on the vehicle sticker. :lol:
Most CUV owners would be better served saving their money on the AWD option and just getting snow tires and enjoying slightly better fuel mileage. These systems are pretty much useless.
A coworkers first gen Ford edge's AWD system would overheat and then fault and default to fwd is any moderate snowy conditions.
I remember being supremely annoyed when Ford changed the 2WD-4HI-4LO selector dial on Explorers and such to AUTO 4WD-4HI-4LO. Leaving it in auto just felt abusive with it struggling to decide how long to stay in 4WD. Good for some emergency thing you're not ready for, but really clunky otherwise to the point where you just succumb and put it into 4HI even if you don't really need to.
Quote from: 93JC on January 21, 2018, 04:02:44 PM
I forgot these Toyota CR-H/H-CR/RCH/whatever things existed. I saw one yesterday afternoon; like a Nissan Juke but even fuglier. That they don't even come with AWD is pretty much the turd cherry on top of the shit pile. Makes me think of a miniature Acura ZDX, and we all know how well those faired for Honda...
ZDX was just ahead of its time and from the wrong brand. Look at all the "SUV coupes" the Germans have been putting out.
All the CH-R needs to right its wrongs is more horsepower and AWD. Toyota needs to put that 1.8L to bed and let its compact cars enter the 21st century.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 22, 2018, 03:02:01 PM
There's AWD and "AWD." Should be a distinction on the vehicle sticker. :lol:
Buyers who are not aware enough to know there are differences in AWD systems wouldn't care anyways.
I'm always amazed that with just an LSD, my Si feels better in the snow than pretty much any cute ute I've driven recently. But I know that AWD has become a MUST HAVE feature for a lot of people for "safety".
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 22, 2018, 03:02:01 PM
There's AWD and "AWD." Should be a distinction on the vehicle sticker. :lol:
+4
:ohyeah:
Quote from: Xer0 on January 24, 2018, 09:44:31 AM
I'm always amazed that with just an LSD, my Si feels better in the snow than pretty much any cute ute I've driven recently. But I know that AWD has become a MUST HAVE feature for a lot of people for "safety".
Well, considering most cute Utes are powering only the front wheels through and open diff... yea
I haven't sat in one of these - but is it similar to the CX3 that doesn't have enough front leg room, no rear leg room, and not enough luggage space for a week's worth of groceries unless you fold down the rear seats.
The thing might as well be a 2 seater... At least then there would be front leg room and trunk space.
Quote from: r0tor on January 24, 2018, 10:03:55 AM
I haven't sat in one of these - but is it similar to the CX3 that doesn't have enough front leg room, no rear leg room, and not enough luggage space for a week's worth of groceries unless you fold down the rear seats.
The thing might as well be a 2 seater... At least then there would be front leg room and trunk space.
No. Not at all. The C-HR has a lot of space; the CX-3 doesn't.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 24, 2018, 06:01:56 AM
ZDX was just ahead of its time and from the wrong brand. Look at all the "SUV coupes" the Germans have been putting out.
The difference is zee German products aren't as compromised as the ZDX was, and they can get away with making stupid products because for whatever reason they get a pass from stupid consumers.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 22, 2018, 03:02:01 PM
There's AWD and "AWD." Should be a distinction on the vehicle sticker. :lol:
I think the NHTSA should publish a certification for all weather capability, with multiple levels. You buy the level that suits your climate and driving needs.
Quote from: Laconian on January 24, 2018, 11:01:09 AM
I think the NHTSA should publish a certification for all weather capability, with multiple levels. You buy the level that suits your climate and driving needs.
Genius!
(and watch the manufacturers start gaming the rating with tires, transmissions, funky traction control systems, etc...)
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 24, 2018, 11:03:22 AM
(and watch the manufacturers start gaming the rating with tires, transmissions, funky traction control systems, etc...)
Probably.
But these part-time AWD systems work fine for most people. It's not like a Chevy Trailblazer or basic Durango is gonna do that much better.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 24, 2018, 11:24:52 AM
But these part-time AWD systems work fine for most people. It's not like a Chevy Trailblazer or basic Durango is gonna do that much better.
Sure, but transparent and standardized labeling of the capabilities would help keep people from doing dumb things with their cars. I've seen the lamer AWD systems get stuck in slushy patches on the passes.
Quote from: Laconian on January 24, 2018, 11:30:42 AM
Sure, but transparent and standardized labeling of the capabilities would help keep people from doing dumb things with their cars. I've seen the lamer AWD systems get stuck in slushy patches on the passes.
I am not sure it would work.
I posted this in the winter thread but a co-worker as a 328xi (about 2 years old) and he ended up in a ditch during the winter. My Golf R was fine. By all accounts BMW's AWD system is a true AWD and far more advanced than the simple Haldex system my Golf uses (which is likely very similar to the CRV.RAV4 systems).
The difference of course was that I was driving with winter tires and he was driving with all seasons. At the end of the day tires make much more difference than how many driven wheels you have in most foul weather conditions. Trying to categorize certain AWD systems as better/safer for consumers would lead even more people to think their AWD car/CUV is more useful than it really is.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 24, 2018, 11:03:22 AM
Genius!
(and watch the manufacturers start gaming the rating with tires, transmissions, funky traction control systems, etc...)
They already do that. Many systems quote that they can deliver 100%
(of available) power to either axel...
Most assume that they system can divert power to either axel. What it really means in most instances is if the front axel is on ice with no traction at all, the rear can handle all of the engine torque without limits... essentially meaning it can achieve a full 50/50 lockup of the center diff.
It's all marketing mumbojumbo
Quote from: Laconian on January 24, 2018, 11:30:42 AM
Sure, but transparent and standardized labeling of the capabilities would help keep people from doing dumb things with their cars. I've seen the lamer AWD systems get stuck in slushy patches on the passes.
It is not in the manufacturers' interest to be transparent. The more they can obfuscate the exact design and capabilities of their AWD systems, the better. They make oodles of money slapping 'lame' AWD systems into easily-overwhelmed cars.
Hybrid Intelligent Real Time Blockchain i-AWD
Quote from: Laconian on January 24, 2018, 04:02:40 PM
Hybrid Intelligent Real Time Blockchain i-AWD
:vapors:
Gotta give it time to mine that traction!
Quote from: 93JC on January 24, 2018, 10:53:10 AM
The difference is zee German products aren't as compromised as the ZDX was, and they can get away with making stupid products because for whatever reason they get a pass from stupid consumers.
Yes. The ZDX was way too expensive for an Acura being about the same cost as a BMW X6 sold at that time. The rear seats didn't fit adults. It was underpowered for an expensive fashion statement sporty looking car.
Quote from: veeman on January 25, 2018, 09:59:34 AM
The rear seats didn't fit adults.
The rear roofline was made to clobber skulls. I think it must have been penned in Japan where the average adult height is a few inches shorter.
I tell you hwut. A ZDX reimagined for us obese gaijin today would make for a better flagship than the snoozefest RL.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 26, 2018, 05:46:20 AM
I tell you hwut. A ZDX reimagined for us obese gaijin today would make for a better flagship than the snoozefest RL.
I agree. The ZDX's execution flaws were too grave, but the concept is sound. Image conscious boomers who want to sit up high because of hips etc.