It looks like it is going to be good....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjw5VAmV9bs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjw5VAmV9bs)
Looks promising. Based on the 2 series, I know there are still people at BMW who know how to make driver's cars.
One thing that is starting to annoy me is the trend that companies make concept cars that look like they may be 99% production ready, and then proceed to leave out the most tantalizing parts.
For example the Z4 concept:
(https://imgr4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/BMW-Z4-Concept--fotoshowBig-c343191b-1111172.jpg)
That shark nose would have really made the design the design. I'm afraid without it will look more dull.
Audi did the same with the A6/A8.
(https://images.hgmsites.net/med/audi-prologue-concept-2014-los-angeles-auto-show_100490907_m.jpg)
(https://www.netcarshow.com/Audi-A8-2018-1024-01.jpg)
That additional level to the headlights just ruin the whole design.
Yea, if they are things that could carry out to production that is annoying.
Oh yeah, is this still happening? This and the Supra are taking so long, my GAF factor has waned, much like the new NSX.
I'm over the whole new release hype cycle. Everyone forgets about everything after like a month tops. Only cars that really hold my interest now are cars I can actually afford.
This will probably be $60k+. Yeah, does nothing for me. I can't justify that much on a fun car.
Quote from: Galaxy on June 04, 2018, 12:16:22 PM
One thing that is starting to annoy me is the trend that companies make concept cars that look like they may be 99% production ready, and then proceed to leave out the most tantalizing parts.
For example the Z4 concept:
(https://imgr4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/BMW-Z4-Concept--fotoshowBig-c343191b-1111172.jpg)
That shark nose would have really made the design the design. I'm afraid without it will look more dull.
Audi did the same with the A6/A8.
(https://images.hgmsites.net/med/audi-prologue-concept-2014-los-angeles-auto-show_100490907_m.jpg)
(https://www.netcarshow.com/Audi-A8-2018-1024-01.jpg)
That additional level to the headlights just ruin the whole design.
The completely different greenhouse shape plays a big part as well.
Reminds me of the Subaru WRX concept from 2013 when Subaru said they were breaking the WRX off from the Impreza line and making it a unique model instead of a trim level. It was really sleek and got enthusiasts really excited. Then we got the all new 2015 WRX and it was... an Impreza with a more agressive body kit just like the previous generation.
Quote from: MrH on June 05, 2018, 08:16:05 AM
This will probably be $60k+. Yeah, does nothing for me. I can't justify that much on a fun car.
Sigh.
What is a reasonable point of entry for a fun car, and could such a thing be produced new?
I could probably spend (another) $20K on something like an Exocet Miata to drive for the rest of my life.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 05, 2018, 04:20:25 PM
What is a reasonable point of entry for a fun car, and could such a thing be produced new?
I could probably spend (another) $20K on something like an Exocet Miata to drive for the rest of my life.
How much does an MX-5 or BRZ/FRS cost? Average around $30K?
I got mine brand new for 22.4K but that's the Sport (base) model. Club, Grand Touring and RF versions are all closer to 30K.
Quote from: Raza on June 05, 2018, 04:49:55 PM
How much does an MX-5 or BRZ/FRS cost? Average around $30K?
Quote from: Raza on June 05, 2018, 04:49:55 PM
How much does an MX-5 or BRZ/FRS cost? Average around $30K?
That's about right.
Quote from: HurricaneSteve on June 05, 2018, 05:15:01 PM
I got mine brand new for 22.4K but that's the Sport (base) model. Club, Grand Touring and RF versions are all closer to 30K.
Oh neat, another ND owner. Yeee
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 05, 2018, 06:06:49 PM
That's about right.
I imagine that, give or take, is the bare minimum. Gone are the days of 22K 350Zs.
Haha that's right. You live in the Seattle area, right? So you would know how much smaller cars make life easier in the city I'd imagine. I briefly considered other cars (Mustang, Camaro, BRZ/86, WRX) but at the end of the day I needed a car that would fit in the garage and anything larger than the Miata wouldn't work. I also couldn't justify paying 32K for a weekend toy (RF) so when the local Mazda dealership offered me a great price on the Sport model I took it. Hope you're enjoying your RF!
Quote from: Laconian on June 05, 2018, 06:32:47 PM
Oh neat, another ND owner. Yeee
Quote from: MrH on June 05, 2018, 08:16:05 AM
This will probably be $60k+. Yeah, does nothing for me. I can't justify that much on a fun car.
For the last Z4 $60.000+ was a loaded model. For the new one maybe add $1.000.
Average sales price should be more around ~$45.000.
Love it, but wish I lived in an area with less traffic so I could drive it more! I live close enough to my job that it's accruing miles at a glacial pace - 3,500 over the past 1.5 years. :mask: Poor Miata!
$32k is a lot for a Miata but the RF is such a stunner in person..
Quote from: Galaxy on June 05, 2018, 11:28:38 PM
For the last Z4 $60.000+ was a loaded model. For the new one maybe add $1.000.
Average sales price should be more around ~$45.000.
I'm guessing they're ditching the 4 banger which should move prices up. Or maybe not, who knows
In any case I think it's going to be a lot more expensive than $1K more on average
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 06, 2018, 06:42:26 AM
I'm guessing they're ditching the 4 banger which should move prices up. Or maybe not, who knows
In any case I think it's going to be a lot more expensive than $1K more on average
Fairly certain the turbo-4 is still slated as the base engine.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 05, 2018, 04:20:25 PM
What is a reasonable point of entry for a fun car, and could such a thing be produced new?
I could probably spend (another) $20K on something like an Exocet Miata to drive for the rest of my life.
$30k is probably the limit for me. Maybe that'll move up as I get older and make more, but yeah. The Miata is pretty much the only new "fun" car that fits the bill. At this point, I'm committed to the two car strategy for myself, which quickly prices things like this out of my budget.
Non sports cars are getting so damn good as well. Crossovers and hybrids are putting down the numbers of high performance cars of just like 10 years ago... with better gas mileage. Ironically I feel like most people who want sports cars don't really care about face peeling performance.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 06, 2018, 08:55:37 AM
Non sports cars are getting so damn good as well. Crossovers and hybrids are putting down the numbers of high performance cars of just like 10 years ago... with better gas mileage. Ironically I feel like most people who want sports cars don't really care about face peeling performance.
There's so much more to it than the numbers, though. The experience is completely difference. For starters, sitting lower to the ground increases the sensation of speed. Then there's the weight factor and it's effect on tactile sensation of what the vehicle is doing.
Quote from: MX793 on June 06, 2018, 09:13:01 AM
There's so much more to it than the numbers, though. The experience is completely difference. For starters, sitting lower to the ground increases the sensation of speed. Then there's the weight factor and it's effect on tactile sensation of what the vehicle is doing.
Agreed, which is why I think the Miata endures (and it's not exactly slow anymore)
But I think sports cars are a one stop shop for speed, sensation and status.... Now I think their remaining market just wants sensation. A 90k 911 is no faster or now capable than a 90k M5, and a Range Rover Velar has more "status" than either. 20-30 years ago that want the case
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 06, 2018, 06:42:26 AM
I'm guessing they're ditching the 4 banger which should move prices up. Or maybe not, who knows
In any case I think it's going to be a lot more expensive than $1K more on average
The video said that the Z40i (or whatever it's called - the one with the TT 3.0) will go on sale for roughly £40,000 so maybe $52-53k here?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 06, 2018, 09:26:51 AM
Agreed, which is why I think the Miata endures (and it's not exactly slow anymore)
But I think sports cars are a one stop shop for speed, sensation and status.... Now I think their remaining market just wants sensation. A 90k 911 is no faster or now capable than a 90k M5, and a Range Rover Velar has more "status" than either. 20-30 years ago that want the case
Exactly. It's all about sensation now. The baseline is so high for everything in terms of outright speed and grip, it doesn't matter what type of vehicle it is if they're both numb. And honestly, the Miata crushes just about everything on the market in sensation and feeling. The ND is plenty fast for me to outrun pretty much everyone on the road, and it's about to get faster too. I'd rather have a 911 GT3, but compared to a mustang GT? Yeah, give me the miata.
Any city that's worth living in will be loaded with traffic unfortunately. I'm sure your car is totally fine with the mileage rate! In 10 months I've only put on 900 miles on mine but I was taking public transportation until a couple of months ago. I also don't trust city drivers so I rarely go anywhere where it's prone to get dented. How are the roads outside of the city to drive on?
And I do agree the RF looks amazing! Unfortunately I have a wedding to pay for and figured I could put the 8-10K saved to better use.
Quote from: Laconian on June 05, 2018, 11:53:37 PM
Love it, but wish I lived in an area with less traffic so I could drive it more! I live close enough to my job that it's accruing miles at a glacial pace - 3,500 over the past 1.5 years. :mask: Poor Miata!
$32k is a lot for a Miata but the RF is such a stunner in person..
These cars are small. The Supra has a shorter wheelbase than the 86 twins
JFC man. The 86 twins were smaller than my 350Z. These things are gonna be tiny
A 350Z is not a small sports car by any means.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 06, 2018, 08:55:37 AM
Non sports cars are getting so damn good as well. Crossovers and hybrids are putting down the numbers of high performance cars of just like 10 years ago... with better gas mileage. Ironically I feel like most people who want sports cars don't really care about face peeling performance.
Numbers, yes.
They still feel like driving pudding, though. If magazine numbers are the main concern, then yes, regular cars are getting very good.
Your last sentence definitely describes me, though. Spot on.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 07, 2018, 05:14:08 AM
JFC man. The 86 twins were smaller than my 350Z. These things are gonna be tiny
My Z4 is like 160" long. I'm hoping it's about that size.
I'm shocked you don't like Miatas.
I feel him. Miata Is Always The Answer, which is precisely why I wouldn't want one. It's a great car, but for compulsive contrarians it will never do. Raza would get a Fiata if anything, knowing its inferior, just because.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 10, 2018, 05:25:51 PM
I feel him. Miata Is Always The Answer, which is precisely why I wouldn't want one. It's a great car, but for compulsive contrarians it will never do. Raza would get a Fiata if anything, knowing its inferior, just because.
It's not like they sell half a million a year in the US or anything. Have you driven an ND? It's so good.
It's the most popular car here. That's enough for me
Super rare on the streets, though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 10, 2018, 07:17:03 PM
It's the most popular car here. That's enough for me
:rolleyes: You bought a G37.
Quote from: MrH on June 10, 2018, 03:58:21 PM
I'm shocked you don't like Miatas.
Never said I didn't. They're great to drive, inexpensive to buy. But they do feel a bit too much like the one size fits all answer. Having had a Boxster S and a Z4, the Miata has always been a great car, but it doesn't quite have the same feeling as the other two. Maybe I'm blinded by the badge, which I fully admit is possible, but the Miata just doesn't drive me wild like the other two do. I did always prefer the MR-2 Spyder for a budget sports car, even though the NC performed about as well and was much more practical and comfortable. Haven't driven an ND yet, though.
I'd love to detail (and thus hopefully drive) a Miata. I should put out an ad for $50 off for the first person to show up with one and let me drive it. lol.
Not to burst all y'all's bubbles, but the new one is apparently slightly longer than the last, but with a shorter wheelbase (driven mostly by pedestrian safety). 4-banger estimated to start in the 50k range and 6 pot in the mid 60s. No manual transmission option with either engine.
Quote from: MX793 on June 14, 2018, 05:26:28 AM
Not to burst all y'all's bubbles, but the new one is apparently slightly longer than the last, but with a shorter wheelbase (driven mostly by pedestrian safety). 4-banger estimated to start in the 50k range and 6 pot in the mid 60s. No manual transmission option with either engine.
Dead to me.
50k?? Canadian...??
(https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/z11-jpg.8445/)
(https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/z12-jpg.8446/)
(https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/z13-jpg.8447/)
That badging should be illegal.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/08/d91f1d7e-2019-bmw-z4-2.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/08/880f91a7-2019-bmw-z4-4.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/08/aee4eb0e-2019-bmw-z4-5.jpg)
(https://autotijd.be/images/bmw/2018/z4/gelekt/01.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/08/7bde20ee-2019-bmw-z4-6.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/08/74415e11-2019-bmw-z4-1.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/08/d981fd85-2019-bmw-z4-3.jpg)
img]https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/08-jpg.8556/[/img]
(https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/06-jpg.8557/)
(https://i.imgur.com/xggV0Jd.png)
Overall I do like it, but...
(https://imgr4.auto-motor-und-sport.de/BMW-Z4-Concept--fotoshowBig-c343191b-1111172.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xggV0Jd.png)
Why tease us with that shark nose? :(
BMW and Audi design has been at a standstill for about a decade. In retrospect the Bangle era may have been a high watermark. This isn't bad per se, but I'll put it like this. A 10 year old Miata looked about 1/3-1/2 the price of a 10 year old Z4. Can we say that about this?
This looks awful. It has the same issues that plague the MB SL and SLK; awkward detailing with a stumpy wheelbase and long overhangs. The car does not have good proportions.
I don't hate it, but for some reason the side profile makes me think Chrysler Crossfire. No manual kills it completely. I do love that orange though.
Quote from: 2o6 on August 15, 2018, 06:59:53 PM
This looks awful. It has the same issues that plague the MB SL and SLK; awkward detailing with a stumpy wheelbase and long overhangs. The car does not have good proportions.
I blame stupid Europeans who don't know how to look both ways before trying to cross the street.
Why so fussy. Those front and rear bumpers are trying sooooo hard. Yuck.
Ya'll nuts, this thing looks great. That orange is fantastic too and glad BMW is making it available on the M2 Comp.
This thing looks great
(https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/740/468/5/S7404685/slug/l/0823-bmwz4-7831-1.jpg)
It looks like a powerwheels car!
Quote from: 68_427 on August 23, 2018, 03:06:30 PM
(https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/740/468/5/S7404685/slug/l/0823-bmwz4-7831-1.jpg)
Obviously the BMW is better proportioned... but
(https://file.kbb.com/kbb/vehicleimage/housenew/480x360/2008/2008-mitsubishi-eclipse-frontside_mieclspy071.jpg)
I should care about this car. Why don't I care?
This is a great angle...
(https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/740/468/5/S7404685/slug/l/0823-bmwz4-7831-1.jpg)
I'm really warming up to it, and that orange with the blackout trim... :wub:
As a personal sportscar that I could aspire to own, it's a non-starter for the one important detail they refuse to offer.
Quote from: 68_427 on August 23, 2018, 03:06:30 PM
(https://s.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/740/468/5/S7404685/slug/l/0823-bmwz4-7831-1.jpg)
Unfortunate belt line. Makes it look very pedestrian.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 24, 2018, 06:57:28 AM
Unfortunate belt line. Makes it look very pedestrian.
The proportions kind of remind me of an SLK.
Front end looks like a Kia.
The back end looks like an exaggerated SL550.
The last one was much better looking. The concept was much better looking.
Quote from: Submariner on August 24, 2018, 08:36:57 AM
Front end looks like a Kia.
The back end looks like an exaggerated SL550.
The last one was much better looking. The concept was much better looking.
Lol Kia needs to do one based off the Stinger, and undercut this by $20,000. And offer a manual.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 24, 2018, 06:57:28 AM
Unfortunate belt line. Makes it look very pedestrian.
Quote from: MX793 on August 24, 2018, 07:34:50 AM
The proportions kind of remind me of an SLK.
Yup. No thanks.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 24, 2018, 05:29:16 AM
Obviously the BMW is better proportioned... but
(https://file.kbb.com/kbb/vehicleimage/housenew/480x360/2008/2008-mitsubishi-eclipse-frontside_mieclspy071.jpg)
You know, the Eclipse looks pretty good in that picture. I actually always thought that gen looked decent.
Quote from: CALL_911 on August 24, 2018, 10:02:27 AM
You know, the Eclipse looks pretty good in that picture. I actually always thought that gen looked decent.
Dat ass tho'.
Quote from: Rockraven on August 24, 2018, 10:02:52 AM
Thank a texting pedestrian.
I'm not convinced. The ND Miata has to pass the same tests and it doesn't look lien ass and has really good proportions. I think blaming pedestrian standards is a cop out.
In the photos it looks so small, but I've seen the prototypes up close in my city and this thing is rather wide and long.
In a few days/weeks they should have one on display at BMW Welt. I'll check it out and then I can decide if I like it or not. Seeing the car in person is always best.
Also, I am curious how the kidney grille would look in silver. I think black kind of dulls it down a little.
Quote from: 2o6 on August 24, 2018, 10:07:10 AM
I'm not convinced. The ND Miata has to pass the same tests and it doesn't look lien ass and has really good proportions. I think blaming pedestrian standards is a cop out.
The ND Miata wasn't designed to accommodate a turbocharged, Inline-6 engine under the hood while still meeting all pedestrian safety standards.
The front end isn't the problem. It's the sharp rising bodyline going from the brake "vent" to the hips. It makes it look like a cheap cartoony hot wheels.
Quote from: MX793 on August 24, 2018, 11:01:42 AM
The ND Miata wasn't designed to accommodate a turbocharged, Inline-6 engine under the hood while still meeting all pedestrian safety standards.
I imagine the ND's engine is a similar height to the Z4's B58. Plus it had more size to play with to really dial in the proportions
2o6 is right; the ND looks a lot better.
Mazda is freer to design hoods and grilles that are right for the car. They aren't burdened blessed by stylistic H&H to the extent that BMW is. BMW is contractually obligated to incorporate kidney grilles and Hoffmeister kinks into all of their cars.
Quote from: Submariner on August 24, 2018, 08:36:57 AM
Front end looks like a Kia.
Kia slander is hereby verboten :nono:
Kia could easily crank out a better looking roadster than this.
So is this going to be a sports car (first gen Z4), or a grand touring drop top for aging golfers (current gen Z4)?
Quote from: Laconian on August 25, 2018, 12:57:20 PM
So is this going to be a sports car (first gen Z4), or a grand touring drop top for aging golfers (current gen Z4)?
Automatic only, bigger than the current gen... Probably more the latter.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 24, 2018, 05:31:06 AM
I should care about this car. Why don't I care?
It's significantly over my toy budget and doesn't appear to be any more fun than an ND. Doesn't mean much to me.
I saw a Z4 finally with the top down today. White, looked great!
I never see verts with the top down around here! Even in perfect 70ish weather....
The 3.0 340 and 380hp Jaguar F-Type Roadster is still available with a manual for 2019. So, suck it BMW.
Nobody's buying, man. They probably sell more I-Paces a day than they will sell those manual F-Types all year.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 25, 2018, 06:59:27 PM
Nobody's buying, man. They probably sell more I-Paces a day than they will sell those manual F-Types all year.
Sadly true for all sports cars really. Man, this Z4 makes the F-Type look gorgeous. It's even available in satin orange with the blackout trim option. I need to find a spare $85,000.
The F-Type IS gorgeous. I feel like the ownership experience would not match up to its beauty though. They are lead pigs with dynamic issues.
The F-type is a size too large IMO. I see a couple on a regular basis, the driver's head just looks too small relative to the rest of the car. It looks much better as a coupe where the mismatched car to human ratio is less evident. The butt is positively X rated.
(https://3-photos.motorcar.com/new-2018-jaguar-f~type-coupeautomatic340hp-12125-16884045-5-640.jpg)
I can't stop seeing the giant happy face under the weird nostrils
Quote from: Laconian on August 25, 2018, 11:43:00 PM
The F-type is a size too large IMO. I see a couple on a regular basis, the driver's head just looks too small relative to the rest of the car. It looks much better as a coupe where the mismatched car to human ratio is less evident. The butt is positively X rated.
(https://3-photos.motorcar.com/new-2018-jaguar-f~type-coupeautomatic340hp-12125-16884045-5-640.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--1cWzTQR0--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/uwrfq3ysngfxtebxbpzi.jpg)
Unless that's a grinning Oompa-Loompa, the Z4 isn't all that svelte either.
Quote from: Laconian on August 25, 2018, 11:43:00 PM
The F-type is a size too large IMO. I see a couple on a regular basis, the driver's head just looks too small relative to the rest of the car. It looks much better as a coupe where the mismatched car to human ratio is less evident. The butt is positively X rated.
(https://3-photos.motorcar.com/new-2018-jaguar-f~type-coupeautomatic340hp-12125-16884045-5-640.jpg)
Not a small car, but bigger than it looks. For all its svelte lines, it looks fearsome even standing still.