https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/mercedes-benz-subscription-launches-pricing-212000558.html
Interesting they're rolling it out in Nashville and Philadelphia first.
It's a cool idea, but paying $1000+/month indefinitely, never gaining any equity in anything is just really hard to justify. I want the poor man's version of this! Toyotas of all flavor for <$500/month :lol:
A good deal for folks that would be buying in the fullsize executive segment, since the depreciation there is absolutely jaw-dropping and well over $1k a month.
Well, if you're used to buying S classes, you're not going to get the base subscription that only gives you C-classes and CLAs (?!). Who would even take a CLA when you can get a C class or GLC?
Insurance is the huge variable here and probably why the price is so high. A C300 lease is $477/mo. Full coverage on one here wouldn't be more than like $150-200 a month for us. $300 a month in maintenance on a brand new car is a lemon. Shit doesn't add up even when you factor in unlimited mileage.
However if we were in NYC I'm sure the premium on a car like a C300 is $1000 a month alone. So if you are committed to having a car anyway this makes hella sense. I feel like these "subscription models" are going to get fleeced and washed in expensive insurance areas.
Personally I am still surprised used leases aren't a thing. Smaller depreciation gap = lower payments and more room for profit padding shit like warranties and maintenance plans.
Yeah I can't imagine they will ever price something like this such that it's a deal. $3k/mo that's $180k in 5 years and you don't own anything.
I think the "reserve" level is the sweet spot. I'd definitely consider this for my daily if available here. I'd mostly use the E-class but it would be nice to be able to switch to an SUV/Roadster/Sporty C43 coupe every so often.
That´s about what I pay for the X5. Before you all go insane on me: different countries, different interest rates, different tax laws, etc.
Much more variety of different types of cars than Porsche offers. That alone makes it more interesting unless you're really only into sports cars.
This Edmunds chart is cool.
https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/2018/cost-to-own/
Over 5 years, a Mercedes E class depreciates by $34638. But insurance adds $8237 over 5 years and maintenance and repairs adds about $10,000. Using this subscription service to get E classes you pay $1595/month which includes insurance. Over 60 months, that's $95,700.
So using the subscription service and getting a variety of cars with no maintenance or repair problems costs you an extra $40 some thousand over 5 years, compared with just buying a new E class.
You could spend that same $96K and probably do one year leases of different Benzes. That really puts a stink on it. 5 yrs worth of 401K max outs with nothing to show for it at the end. I'm not even opposed to leasing but this is ridiculous.
Do they do 1 yr leases though?
Quote from: veeman on June 06, 2018, 02:05:13 PM
Much more variety of different types of cars than Porsche offers. That alone makes it more interesting unless you're really only into sports cars.
This Edmunds chart is cool.
https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/e-class/2018/cost-to-own/
Over 5 years, a Mercedes E class depreciates by $34638. But insurance adds $8237 over 5 years and maintenance and repairs adds about $10,000. Using this subscription service to get E classes you pay $1595/month which includes insurance. Over 60 months, that's $95,700.
So using the subscription service and getting a variety of cars with no maintenance or repair problems costs you an extra $40 some thousand over 5 years, compared with just buying a new E class.
Not sure if you are implying that's not a lot more ... $96k is a helluva lot more than $53k. $8k in insurance premiums sounds high to me too, although that obviously varies.
Quote from: Lebowski on June 06, 2018, 06:31:02 PM
Not sure if you are implying that's not a lot more ... $96k is a helluva lot more than $53k. $8k in insurance premiums sounds high to me too, although that obviously varies.
My post wasn't indicating whether I thought it was a good deal or not. Seriously. It's a helluva lot more money.
I think if a valet service came to your home and exchanged cars for you while transferring all of your stuff, and you could trade cars once a month or so, it could be worth it. Especially if you're the type who doesn't get emotionally attached to your car and hate taking time out of your life going to the dealer for oil changes etc.
For me the difference in cost is too large.
Im shocked... I just did a quote on GEICO for a C300 in NYC
Now keep in mind, back when I had my old Accords I was paying $300-400/mo for liability only, though to be honest I can't remember if I was older than 25 yet. I think we moved to Manhattan (and by extension the last Accord was junked) in 2010 which would have made me 26-27?
Any fucking way the quote I got on the Benzo was about $190/mo. Like I said a C300 lease is $477/mo (albeit with mileage caps). So that's still a $350 premium for choice. Based on Benz lease mileage overages ($0.25/mile) you'd have to drive an extra 16K miles/yr over the 10K/yr limit on regular leases to break even......................
Who is this for??? :wtf:
Didn't Cadillac already try and fail at this? Or is theirs still going...?
Every industry is trying to do the subscription thing. I don't think cars are the right place for it, but I also don't think it's costly for Mercedes to try. Either people bite, or they don't. Only costs are paying some schmuck to write up the idea and paperwork and then advertise it a bit.
It may make more sense to do a daily subscription thing. Could possibly be more profitable too.
The future is not one of ownership but one of licensing. This has already happened with entertainment and now it will happen with cars too. I wouldn't be surprised if airlines aren't next to offer some kind of subscription service were you get X amount of per year plus other goodies.
Adobe is cashing out huge on their shitty subscription model
Quote from: Xer0 on June 07, 2018, 02:08:18 PM
The future is not one of ownership but one of licensing. This has already happened with entertainment and now it will happen with cars too. I wouldn't be surprised if airlines aren't next to offer some kind of subscription service were you get X amount of per year plus other goodies.
Physical assets are not analogous to entertainment. Leasing will always be an expensive way to have a car.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 07, 2018, 08:24:18 AM
It may make more sense to do a daily subscription thing. Could possibly be more profitable too.
That's called a rental car. We already have those.
$1100 a month to get a C300,CLA45, GLC300, or SLC300? Sounds like a ripoff.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 07, 2018, 08:24:18 AM
It may make more sense to do a daily subscription thing. Could possibly be more profitable too.
Aren't those called rentals?
Quote from: Lebowski on June 07, 2018, 06:17:10 PM
Physical assets are not analogous to entertainment. Leasing will always be an expensive way to have a car.
Entertainment was not long ago a physical asset. TVs, DVD players, CDs, video games, etc. Its only since going digital that you no longer own it but just license its use. Car manufacturers look to want to be going the same way with these subscription models. This model could also provide material benefit vs a traditional lease in that you could switch out of a car at any time if you don't like it and cancel the subscription whenever it no longer works. At minimum this will replace the traditional lease, imo.
Who licenses their TV lr DVD player?
People are still buying the hardware to watch their content on. Software has always been licensed even when you own a physical cartidge.
Quote from: Xer0 on June 07, 2018, 10:30:22 PM
Entertainment was not long ago a physical asset. TVs, DVD players, CDs, video games, etc. Its only since going digital that you no longer own it but just license its use. Car manufacturers look to want to be going the same way with these subscription models. This model could also provide material benefit vs a traditional lease in that you could switch out of a car at any time if you don't like it and cancel the subscription whenever it no longer works. At minimum this will replace the traditional lease, imo.
Again, not analogous. A dvd was just a medium for the underlying content and has been largely replaced by streaming. What's the analogous technological change for cars?
A Mercedes IS a physical asset (to someone) whether it's purchased or leased or rented or borrowed, these models don't change that, and leasing or "subscribing" such an asset will almost always be more expensive than buying IMO.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 07, 2018, 06:48:42 PM
That's called a rental car. We already have those.
I guess they do have Benz rentals. I'll crawl back under my rock
Quote from: Lebowski on June 08, 2018, 05:12:15 AM
Again, not analogous. A dvd was just a medium for the underlying content and has been largely replaced by streaming. What's the analogous technological change for cars?
A Mercedes IS a physical asset (to someone) whether it's purchased or leased or rented or borrowed, these models don't change that, and leasing or "subscribing" such an asset will almost always be more expensive than buying IMO.
The point I'm making is that if you wanted to enjoy any of this entertainment you had to buy the actual good; CDs, DVDs, Video games, software, etc. These are absolutely physical assets which you own and which you can sell if you no longer want them. By and large that's gone and no one buys any of that stuff anymore and instead downloads it or streams it, which also means they no longer own it. Ultimately its one of do you own the good or are you only paying to be able to use the good.
As for the expense of leasing/renting vs buying, that's not really something I'm arguing about. There are pros and cons for both. But, I do see this subscription service as a direct replacement to leasing since it holds real benefits over it.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 07, 2018, 11:16:59 PM
Who licenses their TV lr DVD player?
People are still buying the hardware to watch their content on. Software has always been licensed even when you own a physical cartidge.
Physically buying something lets you own that something. That's why there were tons of businesses that popped up on basis of letting you rent items they've bought. That's by and large gone away. The over-reaching point that I'm making, and I think is getting bogged down by trying to directly compare a car with a DVD, is that the future that car manufacturers want to go to is one where the direct user of their product (me, you, etc) does not own the product anymore. This is the model that the entertainment industry has adopted which is where that comparison came from.
I think the gap here is that CDs and DVDs got phased out because technology enabled other means of getting the media on them to consumers. The CDs and DVDs weren't the asset, the content on them was.
By contrast with cars the car is still the asset. And all the logistics surrounding that asset are a big PITA. Not saying the subscription model won't pick up for cars, but the concept is still a novelty at best.
Quote from: Xer0 on June 08, 2018, 08:45:33 AM
The point I'm making is that if you wanted to enjoy any of this entertainment you had to buy the actual good; CDs, DVDs, Video games, software, etc. These are absolutely physical assets which you own and which you can sell if you no longer want them. By and large that's gone and no one buys any of that stuff anymore and instead downloads it or streams it, which also means they no longer own it. Ultimately its one of do you own the good or are you only paying to be able to use the good.
Movies, music, software etc are intelllectual property that used to require physical media and now don't. There's no analogy to cars here.
Quote from: MrH on June 06, 2018, 12:15:11 PM
It's a cool idea, but paying $1000+/month indefinitely, never gaining any equity in anything is just really hard to justify. I want the poor man's version of this! Toyotas of all flavor for <$500/month :lol:
I'd be down with a $500/mo Mazda subscription. Miata in the summer, CX5 in the winter, insurance included?
Quote from: Rockraven on June 08, 2018, 08:17:54 PM
I'd be down with a $500/mo Mazda subscription. Miata in the summer, CX5 in the winter, insurance included?
Problem is, everyone and their nan would do the same... so Mazda would have some football field full of CX-5s in the summer and Miatas in the winter
I'd be much more down a cheaper version of something like the Benz program but with 1 yr ownership periods. Trying to think of a brand I'd want to do this program with.... maybe BMW? M240i for a year, then an X3 M40i, then the new Z4, maybe a 7 series after that etc. Just try different shit and really live with the cars for a while. Would be much easier for them to allocate etc. and you'd still get to try a range of cars. But you'd have to commit for a year....
They have a program for that already. :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 08, 2018, 10:02:33 PM
They have a program for that already. :lol:
Lol, yeah, it's called leasing and it's expensive. Everyone would love to drive a new bmw for the first year of its life.
Quote from: Rockraven on June 08, 2018, 08:17:54 PM
I'd be down with a $500/mo Mazda subscription. Miata in the summer, CX5 in the winter, insurance included?
Ford has a program for used (2015ish) cars called Canvas.
I've never seen any 1 year lease programs? They're mostly 3 year 10,000 to 12,000 annual mileage limited ones. Am I missing something? Anyone with an over 30 minutes commute to work one way can't lease unless they don't mind expensive overages. Might as well buy.
Quote from: veeman on June 09, 2018, 12:31:14 PM
I've never seen any 1 year lease programs? They're mostly 3 year 10,000 to 12,000 annual mileage limited ones. Am I missing something? Anyone with an over 30 minutes commute to work one way can't lease unless they don't mind expensive overages. Might as well buy.
Peugeot hat following program in Germany in April 2017, together with a mobile service provider.
€99.99 a month for one year for a Peugeot 208, 82hp, manual transmission, 2 Zone AC, panorama roof, heated front seat, touchscreen, radio, rear view camera.
Includes 10.000km in the year.
Includes all taxes, fees and registration. Insurance with €1.000 deductible, total of €100 Million liability insurance (limit €15 Millionen per Person)
You also buy a 2 year mobile internet package for €14.99 with 2GB a month.
Total fix costs were €1589.54 for one year Peugeot 208, two years of internet.
They signed 5.000 contracts on the first day. On the third day the French mothership intervened, pulled the plug on the program and fired the three top managers for Germany. Peugeot dealers were furious because people were steamrolling into the dealerships for test drives, but because this was a leasing program offered directly through corporate, they got no commision.
(https://media1.autohaus.de/sixcms/media.php/5172/thumbnails/1und1_Sixt_Leasing.jpg.14121422.jpg)
10,000 km in a year is a joke.
12 month leases are available, if you ask.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 13, 2018, 05:57:15 AM
10,000 km in a year is a joke.
Here in the States, yeah.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 13, 2018, 05:57:15 AM
10,000 km in a year is a joke.
12 month leases are available, if you ask.
I think in Europe it is about the average.
That's about what I average.
I drove around 1,000 miles last year.
I'm averaging about 7,500 a year. While some people's commutes are long, its important to remember that 1 hour in LA traffic is like 2.5 miles. I know my hour commute to work is like 9 miles in Chicago.
We put about 20,000km a year on the X5 and another 10 to 15,000 on all the other cars combined.
I do about 20K miles a year. My commute is very normal for the area.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 13, 2018, 08:38:27 PM
I do about 20K miles a year. My commute is very normal for the area.
Same