Cadillac CT6 Flagship to Make Debut: March 31st 2015 at NYIAS / Latest Caddy Updates

Started by Atomic, February 07, 2015, 05:51:38 PM

12,000 RPM

Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Rich

https://jalopnik.com/cadillac-ceo-no-one-will-buy-our-sedans-because-teens-1823707548

If this is what the Cadillac team believes internally, Cadillac is done, at least for another 20 years (ie. it will remain a bit player and descend into medicocrity).  Maybe if they get some leadership with heads out of their asses they can recover in 20 years.

After reading about Allan Mullay's overhaul - specifically the shitty leadership prior to hiring- and now this, I'm aghast that functioning adults are paid so much money to do such shitty work (or at least present such shitty leadership).

2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

veeman

Cadillac sedans/coupes don't sell well because:

- The Germans and Lexus have been entrenched in this market for decades while Cadillac previously made crappy vehicles
- Not any cheaper (without dealer incentives)
- Interior quality doesn't match rivals
- Poor lease rates/poor resale value
- Reliability not any better than rivals. Not near Lexus.
- Poor dealership luxury experience compared with rivals
- Warranty is no better than rivals
- Lazy styling of entry level ATS
- Flagship sedan is what?  CT6. What happened to the STS. Oh, the CTS replaced it.  So they had the CTS and STS and then just the CTS because the CTS replaced the STS. 
- Cadillac XTS is priced like the CTS, looks similar to a CTS, but drives nothing like the CTS.
-They're not planning to continue the ATS, CTS, or XTS beyond this generation. 
- The very first Cadillac CTS-V was basically a Corvette with a Cadillac body and tires. Because the rear tires weren't massive Corvette tires, it couldn't be floored off the line because of wheel hop. Complete engineering fail on their coming out AMG/BMW M rivalry.

It doesn't matter what the CEO is saying. He can't tell the automotive journalists that for the last decade, our marketing, finance, design, and engineering teams have been in general incompetent. 

giant_mtb

Quote from: veeman on March 13, 2018, 06:57:52 AM
- The very first Cadillac CTS-V was basically a Corvette with a Cadillac body and tires.

This is like saying a Silverado is basically a Corvette with a truck body and tires because it shares an engine. 

12,000 RPM

There are several factors outside of Cadillac that are hammering its sedans. Sedans in general are DOA- particularly sedans that are bigger, more expensive and from unpopular brands. Caddy has that trifecta. Caddy also put money into the wrong things with these sedans (the MKZ outsells the Caddy Alpha trio IIRC). And de Nysschen demonstrates over and over that they don't understand the market.

Caddy needs a revolution, not to me-too the Germans. But I said this 6 years ago and everyone called me nuts :huh:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

2o6

Cadillac's marketing is mediocre, and as much as I dislike Lincoln, Lincoln interiors are far more interesting than Cadillac's. I like the ATS et al, but I don't see any reason to get one.

veeman

Quote from: giant_mtb on March 13, 2018, 07:02:52 AM
This is like saying a Silverado is basically a Corvette with a truck body and tires because it shares an engine. 

Oh calm down. 


2o6


SJ_GTI

The couple of times I drove an ATS I really liked it. Far more agile than the S4 I owned at the time. I will say the glossy surfaces on the interior could be irritating in direct sunlight, but they did look good.

The issue for me is that they just didn't quite hit the right set up options. Manual + AWD with their V6 would have been great. But now that I have made the switch back to a hatchback it is hard for me to see myself in a sedan again anyway, so pretty much not going to be shopping in this category in the future I don't think.

veeman

Quote from: giant_mtb on March 13, 2018, 07:30:12 AM
You're the one making baseless claims. :huh:

https://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook/15-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-640-hp-200-mph-2016-cadillac-cts-v#3

"The CTS-V's heart, lungs, and brain all come straight out of the 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06."

That's the way it's always been with this car. So yes, calm down.  Neither is my claim baseless, nor is it meant to be taken so literally.  You know that full well and are being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

giant_mtb

Quote from: veeman on March 13, 2018, 07:52:11 AM
https://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook/15-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-640-hp-200-mph-2016-cadillac-cts-v#3

"The CTS-V's heart, lungs, and brain all come straight out of the 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06."

That's the way it's always been with this car. So yes, calm down.  Neither is my claim baseless, nor is it meant to be taken so literally.  You know that full well and are being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.


MX793

Quote from: veeman on March 13, 2018, 07:52:11 AM
https://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook/15-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-640-hp-200-mph-2016-cadillac-cts-v#3

"The CTS-V's heart, lungs, and brain all come straight out of the 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06."

That's the way it's always been with this car. So yes, calm down.  Neither is my claim baseless, nor is it meant to be taken so literally.  You know that full well and are being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

There is a huge difference between sharing an engine/powertrain and being "a Corvette with a Cadillac body".  Cadillac sold a Corvette with a Cadillac body.  It was called the XLR.  Oddly enough, while the chassis underpinnings came from the Corvette, the powertrain did not.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

veeman

Quote from: MX793 on March 13, 2018, 10:18:58 AM
There is a huge difference between sharing an engine/powertrain and being "a Corvette with a Cadillac body".  Cadillac sold a Corvette with a Cadillac body.  It was called the XLR.  Oddly enough, while the chassis underpinnings came from the Corvette, the powertrain did not.

https://jalopnik.com/2016-cadillac-cts-v-a-640-horse-missile-disguised-as-a-1679217881

First paragraph says what I said.  It's obviously not meant to be taken super literally.  Geez us...


Submariner

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 13, 2018, 07:08:19 AM
There are several factors outside of Cadillac that are hammering its sedans. Sedans in general are DOA- particularly sedans that are bigger, more expensive and from unpopular brands. Caddy has that trifecta. Caddy also put money into the wrong things with these sedans (the MKZ outsells the Caddy Alpha trio IIRC). And de Nysschen demonstrates over and over that they don't understand the market.

Caddy needs a revolution, not to me-too the Germans. But I said this 6 years ago and everyone called me nuts :huh:

I didn't!

Cadillac has the Escalade, which they should rename the QE2 to better fit in with their confusing brand nomenclature, and the XT5, which up until the latest iteration looked and felt like a blocky Chevy Traverse.  Eww.  Merc has a A, C, E, and S sized crossovers (along with those stupid crossover coupes), Audi has a Q3, 5 and 7.  BMW has the X5, 3, 7(?), 1, -1, etc, Lexus has 15 different crossovers, Infiniti is still trying to figure out what it does as a business, and even Jaguar has entered the 21st century with not one but two crossovers which, by all accounts, are rather good.  Cadillac has a XT5 with some bland advertising shot in SoHo, trying to look hip but coming across as entirely forgettable.  "Look at us sophisticaled ladies in this Cadillac" one desperate actress tries to convey, when in reality the only people buying this are Mary Kay reps and people who couldn't quite justify the lease payments on an X5.

And now they're looking to shake up their entry and midsize cars again with the CT5.  They're  reusing the same "one car, two segment" strategy that failed them so spectacularly with the CTS.  It's a mezmoring train wreck to behold.
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550


SJ_GTI

Quote from: Submariner on March 13, 2018, 10:59:21 AM
And now they're looking to shake up their entry and midsize cars again with the CT5.  They're  reusing the same "one car, two segment" strategy that failed them so spectacularly with the CTS.  It's a mezmoring train wreck to behold.

IIRC the only time the CTS was successful was when it was a tweener (5-series sized but at 3-series pricing). The split ATS/CTS strategy that matched the Germans is what failed (from a sales perspective...).

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Submariner on March 13, 2018, 10:59:21 AM
I didn't!

Cadillac has the Escalade, which they should rename the QE2 to better fit in with their confusing brand nomenclature, and the XT5, which up until the latest iteration looked and felt like a blocky Chevy Traverse.  Eww.  Merc has a A, C, E, and S sized crossovers (along with those stupid crossover coupes), Audi has a Q3, 5 and 7.  BMW has the X5, 3, 7(?), 1, -1, etc, Lexus has 15 different crossovers, Infiniti is still trying to figure out what it does as a business, and even Jaguar has entered the 21st century with not one but two crossovers which, by all accounts, are rather good.  Cadillac has a XT5 with some bland advertising shot in SoHo, trying to look hip but coming across as entirely forgettable.  "Look at us sophisticaled ladies in this Cadillac" one desperate actress tries to convey, when in reality the only people buying this are Mary Kay reps and people who couldn't quite justify the lease payments on an X5.

And now they're looking to shake up their entry and midsize cars again with the CT5.  They're  reusing the same "one car, two segment" strategy that failed them so spectacularly with the CTS.  It's a mezmoring train wreck to behold.
To be fair, as I've said before, the "5 series for 3 money" is a good strategy for brands without the cachet to charge 5 series money for a 5 series. And compared to now, the CTS was a success... the old one outsold all the Alpha sedans in the US handily for most years.

Problem now is sedan interest is in short order, and what interest is left is in the brands with cachet- the Germans. Yet Caddy has 2 crossovers and 4 sedans, the latter of which are all in sales freefall. Cadillac should have 6 crossovers all styled like the Escalade. It's truly been an unmitigated disaster, made worse by de Nysschen's pride. OK, you turned Audi around 20 years ago. Things can change over that time. You can't run the same play everywhere and expect it to work the same. It's infuriating.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Submariner

Quote from: SJ_GTI on March 13, 2018, 11:09:06 AM
IIRC the only time the CTS was successful was when it was a tweener (5-series sized but at 3-series pricing). The split ATS/CTS strategy that matched the Germans is what failed (from a sales perspective...).

You're right.  I got it backwards.

It's a good thing I'm not running Cadillac.  :lol:
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

68_427

Too lazy to look on this forum but the facelifted ct6 is being offered with a 4.2L hot v TT V8.  500hp in regular tune and 550hp/627tq for the v sport model
Quotewhere were you when automotive dream died
i was sat at home drinking brake fluid when wife ring
'racecar is die'
no


Submariner

Quote from: 68_427 on March 29, 2018, 02:08:02 PM
Too lazy to look on this forum but the facelifted ct6 is being offered with a 4.2L hot v TT V8.  500hp in regular tune and 550hp/627tq for the v sport model

Who cares?  Cadillac is going to get three additional sales out of it and the CT6 will still be entirely forgettable and 2nd rate.
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

68_427

Quote from: Submariner on April 09, 2018, 08:01:06 AM
Who cares?  Cadillac is going to get three additional sales out of it and the CT6 will still be entirely forgettable and 2nd rate.

You're probably right why should we care about this engine they developed solely to sell 3 extra CT6s
Quotewhere were you when automotive dream died
i was sat at home drinking brake fluid when wife ring
'racecar is die'
no


Submariner

Quote from: 68_427 on April 09, 2018, 09:11:59 AM
You're probably right why should we care about this engine they developed solely to sell 3 extra CT6s

Because Cadillac decided not to stick it in the Escalade (the only vehicle cadillac has that matters) or one of their two actually good sports cars (that don't sell).  They put it in their participation-trophy flagship which buyers will continue to not care about. 
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

12,000 RPM

It hurts to hear but it's 100% true. Good money after the bad. They should have spent that money on a Tesla fighter (or Tesla itself)
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

68_427

Wait you guys really think this engine won't be sold in any other model?
Quotewhere were you when automotive dream died
i was sat at home drinking brake fluid when wife ring
'racecar is die'
no


Xer0

Quote from: 68_427 on April 09, 2018, 11:21:46 AM
Wait you guys really think this engine won't be sold in any other model?

:wtf: lol right.  This engine will proliferate all over GMs lineup.

Rich

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/cadillac-has-patented-an-escala-inspired-sportback-coupe



Looks great, but I don't think it'll sell well.  Why does Cadillac keep aiming so low in the market.  They should have an 8 series competitor, but this looks the size of an ATS.
2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

93JC

Looks like a Mustang too. Not that that's a bad thing in and of itself, but that's the narrative the rags will use to pooh-pooh the car.

12,000 RPM

A legit gripe IMO. Caddy has yet to fully leverage A&S in production cars.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs