Cadillac CT6 Flagship to Make Debut: March 31st 2015 at NYIAS / Latest Caddy Updates

Started by Atomic, February 07, 2015, 05:51:38 PM

FlatBlackCaddy

Actual performance of the bose system aside, luxury buyers are about image and brands. In that regard, bose is NOT something that stimulates the senses of a luxury buyer, imo. You can get a bose system in a compact car.

They should have teamed up with a more luxury oriented company.

68_427

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i was sat at home drinking brake fluid when wife ring
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no


giant_mtb

Yes. Let's throw 34 speakers into a space half the size of a small living room. Won't be any problems. We'll just slap "Bose" on it and people will eat that shit up and think it's the best sound system ever because we'll crank the bass on the shitty Chinese woofers.

The Wall of Sound is strong with luxury cars.

SVT666

Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 04, 2015, 11:50:01 AM
Actual performance of the bose system aside, luxury buyers are about image and brands. In that regard, bose is NOT something that stimulates the senses of a luxury buyer, imo. You can get a bose system in a compact car.

They should have teamed up with a more luxury oriented company.
Not true. To the uninitiated, the Bose name means a lot.  And most luxury car buyers don't have a clue that Bose is pretty average stuff. They believe it's high end because Bose does a great job marketing it as such. 

hotrodalex

Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 04, 2015, 11:50:01 AM
Actual performance of the bose system aside, luxury buyers are about image and brands. In that regard, bose is NOT something that stimulates the senses of a luxury buyer, imo. You can get a bose system in a compact car.

They should have teamed up with a more luxury oriented company.

Literally anything Cadillac does is the worst, huh

FlatBlackCaddy

Quote from: SVT666 on April 04, 2015, 12:44:22 PM
Not true. To the uninitiated, the Bose name means a lot.  And most luxury car buyers don't have a clue that Bose is pretty average stuff. They believe it's high end because Bose does a great job marketing it as such. 

Luxury people dont want what normal people want. Everyone has heard of bose, because anyone can get it in anything. I think that aspect alone would make the shallow, brand centric people question it's "exotic" credentials.

FlatBlackCaddy

Quote from: hotrodalex on April 04, 2015, 12:48:07 PM
Literally anything Cadillac does is the worst, huh

No, but I dont expect you to understand how someone can criticize something without coming from a position of bias.

2o6

Bang and Olfson? Mostly because I think company names with more than two words sound sophisticated

SVT666

Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 04, 2015, 01:22:12 PM
Luxury people dont want what normal people want. Everyone has heard of bose, because anyone can get it in anything. I think that aspect alone would make the shallow, brand centric people question it's "exotic" credentials.
People who don't buy in the other price ranges don't know what's available in those cars.  Besides, even if they knew you can get it in a Nissan Quest, they also know it's the "Premium" system.

FlatBlackCaddy

Quote from: SVT666 on April 04, 2015, 02:16:33 PM
People who don't buy in the other price ranges don't know what's available in those cars.  Besides, even if they knew you can get it in a Nissan Quest, they also know it's the "Premium" system.

Sorry, but your logic is a bit flawed. I dont know how else to explain it. If a image conscious luxury buyer knows a name, associates it as premium but then sees it available in none premium markets they will question its image. Not be happy that cheap car buyers get to enjoy the premium luxury options that they get in their high end cars.

Gotta-Qik-C7

Quote from: 2o6 on April 04, 2015, 02:16:27 PM
Bang and Olfson? Mostly because I think company names with more than two words sound sophisticated
Harman Kardon...
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FlatBlackCaddy

Sonus Faber or McIntosh would have been good. The later probably the better known.

hotrodalex

Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 04, 2015, 02:49:59 PM
Sonus Faber or McIntosh would have been good. The later probably the better known.

Nobody has ever heard of those brands. They have heard of Bose, who has a good reputation.

HK or B&O would have been good choices, but Bose is definitely not a negative. That's why I called you out on being biased. In no way, shape, or form will customers look down on a CT6 for having a Bose system.

Submariner

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12,000 RPM

Quote from: giant_mtb on April 04, 2015, 12:38:23 PM
Yes. Let's throw 34 speakers into a space half the size of a small living room. Won't be any problems. We'll just slap "Bose" on it and people will eat that shit up and think it's the best sound system ever because we'll crank the bass on the shitty Chinese woofers.

The Wall of Sound is strong with luxury cars.
:lol:

I know how u feel bro. Real audiophiles do 2.1 for sound quality

No V8 in an AMERICAN luxury flagship is also ridiculous.

GM's head is so far up its ass on Cadillac it turned itself inside out.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

GoCougs

V8s have fallen out of favor by quite a bit, and a turbo V8 is just about worthless. Might as well go with a turbo V6.

Gotta-Qik-C7

2014 C7 Vert, 2002 Silverado, 2005 Road Glide

MX793

Quote from: GoCougs on April 04, 2015, 06:32:53 PM
V8s have fallen out of favor by quite a bit, and a turbo V8 is just about worthless. Might as well go with a turbo V6.

M-B, Audi, Jag, Lexus and BMW all offer V8s in their flagship cars.  BMW, M-B, and Audi have 12-cylinder engines as well.
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Quote from: GoCougs on April 04, 2015, 06:32:53 PM
V8s have fallen out of favor by quite a bit, and a turbo V8 is just about worthless. Might as well go with a turbo V6.
Fallen out of favor by who :confused: V8 is still king in the class the CT6 wants to compete in; the irony of the company that pretty much mainstreamed the V8 not putting one in their flagship (and having bombed on modern ones before ;) ) is not lost on people in the know.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

hotrodalex

So what happens when the next gen flagships from the H&H kings use TTV6s instead of a V8? Because with the trend in every other segment, that seems very likely.

FlatBlackCaddy

Quote from: hotrodalex on April 04, 2015, 03:33:56 PM
Nobody has ever heard of those brands. They have heard of Bose, who has a good reputation.

HK or B&O would have been good choices, but Bose is definitely not a negative. That's why I called you out on being biased. In no way, shape, or form will customers look down on a CT6 for having a Bose system.

Sorry, you're wrong about this one. I can't debate your opinion with facts.

MX793

Quote from: hotrodalex on April 04, 2015, 07:58:51 PM
So what happens when the next gen flagships from the H&H kings use TTV6s instead of a V8? Because with the trend in every other segment, that seems very likely.

All of the H&H kings currently offer forced induction 6-cylinder engines in their flagship models... 



as their entry or mid-level engine option.
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hotrodalex

Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 04, 2015, 08:03:54 PM
Sorry, you're wrong about this one. I can't debate your opinion with facts.


It's a fact that every other segment of the industry has been downsizing engines. Thus it's statistically likely that the flagship sedan segment will follow suit. The only thing that disagrees with me is your opinion.

Quote from: MX793 on April 04, 2015, 08:06:26 PM
All of the H&H kings currently offer forced induction 6-cylinder engines in their flagship models... 



as their entry or mid-level engine option.

And their V6s are making less power - the CT6's TTV6 competes with the V8s. A little less HP than competitor's V8s, but it's also supposed to weigh more than 300 lbs less.


If you guys were smart you'd stop now before it turns into another factual ass kicking like the Corvette and Silverado threads.

FlatBlackCaddy

You quoted me and then talked about engines.

What I can't debate is your opinion that bose is in any way a high end audio company when the fact is that they aren't even present, let alone a player, in that field.

hotrodalex

Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 04, 2015, 08:18:27 PM
You quoted me and then talked about engines.

What I can't debate is your opinion that bose is in any way a high end audio company when the fact is that they aren't even present, let alone a player, in that field.

That's what I get for carspinning during March Madness. Figured you quoted my last post.

But the Bose thing is such a piddly complaint, especially considering the good reputation it has in the general public. And the 34 speaker stat will surely impress buyers.

FlatBlackCaddy

It's indicative of the whole. GM just doesn't know how to or make the right decisions when it comes to the higher end luxury market.

I've heard alot of bose car systems. 4,6,12,18 didnt matter. Packing more Chinese drivers in there never made much of a difference in thw sound (lack of) quality.

GoCougs

Quote from: MX793 on April 04, 2015, 06:51:45 PM
M-B, Audi, Jag, Lexus and BMW all offer V8s in their flagship cars.  BMW, M-B, and Audi have 12-cylinder engines as well.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 04, 2015, 07:27:05 PM
Fallen out of favor by who :confused: V8 is still king in the class the CT6 wants to compete in; the irony of the company that pretty much mainstreamed the V8 not putting one in their flagship (and having bombed on modern ones before ;) ) is not lost on people in the know.

Lots of examples of V8s recently either being de-emphasized or replaced by smaller motors: M3/M4, S4/S5, Lexus GS, Audi A6, M-B E Class, and of course, standing on its own in proving the point, the F150.

No one really cares about motors - the :facepalm: turbo-4s in the A4, C Class, 3er, TLX, and the bevy of lux cute SUVs prove that.

The small turbo V8s in the German lux cars are kinda sucky. They don't do anything better than an equivalent TTV6 and then automakers lose out big on economies of scale/scope. This is why V8s have started going away in the mid size segment (A6, E Class, GS) and IMO logic says will go away in the next cycle or two in the full size lux segment save for hi-po models.

Also, the Cadillac chief has already reported the CT6 will get a TTV8 for the -V iteration.

veeman

I don't think it matters what brand of sound system is put in a luxury car at all.  No one cares.  The same brand of stereo, Lexicon, in a Hyundai Genesis is in a Rolls Royce Phantom.  Bose makes good stuff and not so good stuff.  A true audiophile will listen to the stereo intently on a test drive and then see for themselves whether it's up to snuff.  Various web based expert reviews of high end auto stereo systems are all over the place in terms of rankings.  Bang and Olufsen, Mark Levinson, Bowers and Wilkins, ELS, Harman Kardon, are on the same plane as some of Bose's stuff.  The stereo that came with Maybach was a Bose!

Caddy probably went with Bose because GM has a history with Bose and Bose gave them a good deal.  It'll sound fine and be on par with the stereo offered on any similar priced German or Japanese saloon. 

CALL_911



2004 S2000
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MX793

Quote from: GoCougs on April 05, 2015, 07:04:12 AM

No one really cares about motors - the :facepalm: turbo-4s in the A4, C Class, 3er, TLX, and the bevy of lux cute SUVs prove that.

The A4/3-series/TSX/C-class segment are not luxury cars.  They are premium compact cars.  The class/segment has traditionally had 4-cylinder power in at least entry level models with 6-cylinders an up-level option, excluding special hi-po models (M3/RS4/AMG).

QuoteThe small turbo V8s in the German lux cars are kinda sucky. They don't do anything better than an equivalent TTV6 and then automakers lose out big on economies of scale/scope. This is why V8s have started going away in the mid size segment (A6, E Class, GS) and IMO logic says will go away in the next cycle or two in the full size lux segment save for hi-po models.

Also, the Cadillac chief has already reported the CT6 will get a TTV8 for the -V iteration.

The big luxo flagships are not about economies of scale.  The midsizers are volume models and governed to large degree by economies of scale, but the big flagships are not, at least not in their highest trim levels.  If they were, the German 3 would have ditched 12-cylinder powerplants in those models a long time ago.

I'm also not convinced that a 400 hp 3.0L is going to offer the same kind of smooth, linear power characteristics as a larger displacement, boosted V8.  My suspicion is that it will be considerably laggier than the 450 hp 4.0-4.7L turbo V8s from the Germans, and certainly laggier than Jag's supercharged 5.0.
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