MAZDA SkyActiv-R Sportscar... New RX-7?

[Cookie Monster]

I think Toyota initially agreed with you and then disagreed after a few years when people slowed theit buying of their boring ass product line.

At some point, any new car purchase is an emotional decision as it pretty much never makes financial sense.  The enthusiast side of the business bring emotion.

Nah, Toyota is only trying to make their normal cars look more exciting. That's about as "sporty" as most car buyers are willing to go.

[MX793]

Most buyers don't have an enthusiast side. You look at the top 10 selling vehicles (F-150, Silverado, RAM, Corolla, Camry, RAV-4, Accord, Rogue, CR-V, Civic), only like 2-3 have enthusiast versions (Accord Sport, Civic Si), and they all get outsold by cars with no enthusiast versions. Most Accords/Civics sold are plain Jane LX/EX/Hybrids. For like 99.999999% of the market enthusiasm is a non-factor.

Many of the vehicles on the best sellers list sell heavily to fleets.

[r0tor]

Most buyers don't have an enthusiast side. You look at the top 10 selling vehicles (F-150, Silverado, RAM, Corolla, Camry, RAV-4, Accord, Rogue, CR-V, Civic), only like 2-3 have enthusiast versions (Accord Sport, Civic Si), and they all get outsold by cars with no enthusiast versions. Most Accords/Civics sold are plain Jane LX/EX/Hybrids. For like 99.999999% of the market enthusiasm is a non-factor.

Many buyers don't buy the item that drew them into the showroom... You completely missed the point once again.

[12,000 RPM]

Many buyers don't buy the item that drew them into the showroom... You completely missed the point once again.

What "items" are drawing people into Honda/Toyota showrooms? You think the bulk of people buying Camrys and Civics came in to look at 86s and CR-Zs? Halo cars are bullshit. Nobody bought a Sentra because it shared a brand/showroom space with a GT-R.

[MrH]

For as disappointed as I am in a new RX-7 not happening, I can't be mad at Mazda.  I doubt there was a business case for it at all.  And they still make the best entry level sports car out there, despite being one of the smallest manufacturers.  They're doing more in the sports car world than most of the bigger players.

[Cookie Monster]

I would have seriously considered this car if it had come out around 2022.

Oh well, I got my dorito powered car ownership fulfilled.

[Payman]

I'd be satisfied with renewed focus on the Miata, with special editions, a Mazdaspeed version, new fucking colours, etc.

[Raza]

What "items" are drawing people into Honda/Toyota showrooms? You think the bulk of people buying Camrys and Civics came in to look at 86s and CR-Zs? Halo cars are bullshit. Nobody bought a Sentra because it shared a brand/showroom space with a GT-R.

Halo cars are for real, man.  Nick bought a Versa S because he went in to get a GT-R, but couldn't afford it. 

[SJ_GTI]

Halo cars are for real, man.  Nick bought a Versa S because he went in to get a GT-R, but couldn't afford it.

i lol'd

[r0tor]

What "items" are drawing people into Honda/Toyota showrooms? You think the bulk of people buying Camrys and Civics came in to look at 86s and CR-Zs? Halo cars are bullshit. Nobody bought a Sentra because it shared a brand/showroom space with a GT-R.

Toyota is in total desperation mode right now styling the fuck out of their cars to try and get people's attention.  Why are they doing this when an average Toyota buyer is a bland appliance shopper?  Why did they spend half a effort slapping a badge on a Subaru trying to get a sports car in their portfolio?

It's because bland will sell well and make the shareholders happy for awhile... and then after a few years of no real emotional or aspirational products, the brand starts to die on the vine and become irrevelent.

Honda?  How many Honda accords were sold because people loved the shit out of the civic si, integra type r, s2000, and NSX?  Honda had a class of car that made tons of Honda fanboys and they were able to live off of it for years... Then business started declining and now you have an actual effort into a civic type r, nsx, and reportedly a new s2000

[12,000 RPM]

Toyota is in total desperation mode right now styling the fuck out of their cars to try and get people's attention.  Why are they doing this when an average Toyota buyer is a bland appliance shopper?  Why did they spend half a effort slapping a badge on a Subaru trying to get a sports car in their portfolio?

It's because bland will sell well and make the shareholders happy for awhile... and then after a few years of no real emotional or aspirational products, the brand starts to die on the vine and become irrevelent.

Toyota in desperation mode

Toyota made styling a priority because the competition stepped up styling in a huge way. 6-10 years ago Hyundai, Kia, Ford, Chrysler and to a large degree Mazda made some pretty generic or downright hideous cars. In 1 generation all those companies leapfrogged each other to become design leaders. Plus styling still takes a back seat to practicality... Camry + Corolla still have good rear headroom at the expense of sexy profiles; RAV-4 is still a practical box and not a Macan style baseball cap etc. There's absolutely nothing "emotional" or "aspirational" about any of Toyota's mainstream engines/chassis either.

And even that is not enough. The Chrysler 200 is a gorgeous car, and it's dying. Meanwhile the comparatively bland Camry is the top selling midsizer by a wide margin. People in mainstream segments don't give a shit about "emotion" or "aspiration".

Honda?  How many Honda accords were sold because people loved the shit out of the civic si, integra type r, s2000, and NSX?  Honda had a class of car that made tons of Honda fanboys and they were able to live off of it for years... Then business started declining and now you have an actual effort into a civic type r, nsx, and reportedly a new s2000

Nobody is buying a damn Accord because they loved their CSi/ITR/S2000/NSX. They're buying used CSi/ITR/S2000/NSXs or have moved on to shit like M3s or Porsches. By this logic you would have sold your RX-8 and bought a Mazda 6.... why didn't you?

And I would argue that the revival of the CTR/NSX/S2000 are just bids for more market share and a way to recoup on R&D costs. Remember the NSX is New Sports eXperimental.... there's a lot of tech in the first NSX that trickled down and I'm sure there's a lot in this one that will do the same. If they can convince people to buy the hideous CTR that will pad the Civic's profitability and increase market share/volume. You have it all backwards.... average mainstream buyer has no idea halo cars even exist, and the two top selling mainstreamer brands (Toyota/Honda) don't even have halo cars. The whole concept is complete baseless internet teenager nonsense.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Toyota styling has only gone downhill after the 1993 Corolla.

Every Toyota with this logo on it has been a fairly disgusting visual design.

But genrally reliable with very appliancey behaviour.

The only actually good looking Toyota is the Frbreez86, and they wouldn't even put their name on it at first.

[2o6]

I like the way new modern Toyotas and Lexuses look

[12,000 RPM]

Corolla could have better proportions and less wheel gap. I was surprised how much better the Camry looked in person too.

But yea nobody is buying an Accord because they loved their old NSX. The halo car concept is laughable.

[SJ_GTI]

I bought my Golf because I assumed (and still assume!) it is based on  Porsche 911. 

[r0tor]

Corolla could have better proportions and less wheel gap. I was surprised how much better the Camry looked in person too.

But yea nobody is buying an Accord because they loved their old NSX. The halo car concept is laughable.

And your love with Honda comes from what?  You owned a beater accord because?  You bought a civic at a time when their was better choices because?

...I'm sure none of the above came from the late 90s or early 2000s import scene...

[12,000 RPM]

And your love with Honda comes from what?  You owned a beater accord because?  You bought a civic at a time when their was better choices because?

...I'm sure none of the above came from the late 90s or early 2000s import scene...

That definitely factored in it for me. Problem is I am only 1 of millions of Civic drivers. Your logic is akin to saying that because Spoon built a time attack car everyone who buys Civics buys them to do time attacks. FFS... less than 2% of the new Civics on sale are stickshift. Nobody who was into the old import scene is buying a damn CVT Civic. Of the 8th/9th gens on sale, ~10% are Sis and ~13% are stickshift. The bulk of people buying Hondas don't give a flying fuck about emotion/excitement/old Hondas/NSXs.

[r0tor]

So "nobody" buys accords based on that..  but you did...

Oh whatever.... You still miss the point -ireallydontgiveafuck shrug-

[12,000 RPM]

So "nobody" buys accords based on that..  but you did...

Oh whatever.... You still miss the point -ireallydontgiveafuck shrug-

I bought my Accords in the thick of the import craze, and they were DWB Hondas. Can't have nostalgia with the genuine article while shit is happening. This is like saying people in the 80s were dressing like MJ for nostalgia.

And LOL @ figuring out you "really don't give a fuck" after you spent 1,000+ words making zero sense. Halo cars don't work and Honda is not selling cars via nostalgia. I forgot how stubborn you can be

[GoCougs]

I like the way new modern Toyotas and Lexuses look

Lexus has it going ON with the LC 500:

[12,000 RPM]

It's too bad it doesn't drive anywhere near as good as it looks

Weighs as much as the GS-F

[2o6]

It's too bad it doesn't drive anywhere near as good as it looks

Weighs as much as the GS-F

Compare it directly to the 6 series.


They need to "gran coupe" the LC.

[12,000 RPM]

OK, that actually makes a lot of sense. And a GS GC would be kind of cool. It's definitely a looker

[r0tor]

I bought my Accords in the thick of the import craze, and they were DWB Hondas. Can't have nostalgia with the genuine article while shit is happening. This is like saying people in the 80s were dressing like MJ for nostalgia.

And LOL @ figuring out you "really don't give a fuck" after you spent 1,000+ words making zero sense. Halo cars don't work and Honda is not selling cars via nostalgia. I forgot how stubborn you can be

You became a Honda fanboy and buyer from halo type cars.  I ended up buying an RX8  because I grew up loving the FD RX7... It's all pointless to even debate this with you as your #1 character trait is believing you are a unicorn in the world where you never fall into any stereotype and your decision process is completely unique.

Halo cars are a form of advertising.  They draw media attention.  They draw people's attention to the brand.  They drive the direction of the brand.  They showcase abilities of the brand.  They can drive the public perception of the brand.

[12,000 RPM]

You became a Honda fanboy and buyer from halo type cars.  I ended up buying an RX8  because I grew up loving the FD RX7... It's all pointless to even debate this with you as your #1 character trait is believing you are a unicorn in the world where you never fall into any stereotype and your decision process is completely unique.

Halo cars are a form of advertising.  They draw media attention.  They draw people's attention to the brand.  They drive the direction of the brand.  They showcase abilities of the brand.  They can drive the public perception of the brand.

I became a Honda fanboy because my car dealer uncle found me a 93 Accord with ~87K miles for $2200. It was pure chance. If I had got the G20t he found instead I probably never would have got into Hondas in the first place. I was happy with Maximas.

I don't think I'm a special unicorn. You have the opposite problem. You think that because you bought an RX-8 from your RX-7 fandom, everyone who buys any car buys it because of some halo car. And that's just not true. Most car buyers don't even know the halo cars exist. It's a non issue. Halo cars do everything you claim but nowhere near to a degree that actually matters. Again Toyota sells the most cars with no halo car.

[r0tor]

New rotary powered concept coming this fall 

... Production car apparently still didn't get signed off by CEO BeanCounter-son though  ...
https://www.google.com/amp/www.motortrend.com/news/new-mazda-rotary-concept/amp/#ampshare=http://www.motortrend.com/news/new-mazda-rotary-concept/

[Payman]

2019 RX7 concept to be unveiled at Tokyo Motor Show.

[12,000 RPM]

I'll believe it when I see it

[r0tor]

2019 RX7 concept to be unveiled at Tokyo Motor Show.

...So much for that...

Please die Mazda

[12,000 RPM]