Autonomous Cars

Started by AutobahnSHO, October 08, 2015, 08:53:13 AM

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Morris Minor on July 18, 2017, 04:34:10 AM
Drove up to a roundabout yesterday - it was well-signed, quiet rural area, & nicely laid out. A simple, uncrowded, four-way roundabout. Drove around, we were continuing straight, and there before us was a Jeep Cherokee, backing up because s/he'd missed the exit.
If autonomous vehicle systems have IQs higher than the average small plank of wood, we'll be doing better than we're doing today.

they haven't seen Chevy Chase European Vacation?....
Will

AutobahnSHO

This is what they should do for semis between cities. Have one driver driving an entire convoy.

Use rest stops right after and before cities to have the regular drivers in each truck commit to rest or drive and form a convoy, then head on their way. The rules on sleep are pretty intense, you could maximize efficiency by letting some sleep while the truck does most of the driving.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/daimler-shows-off-automated-mercedes-115254151.html
Will

Soup DeVille

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on October 18, 2017, 12:56:45 PM
This is what they should do for semis between cities. Have one driver driving an entire convoy.

Use rest stops right after and before cities to have the regular drivers in each truck commit to rest or drive and form a convoy, then head on their way. The rules on sleep are pretty intense, you could maximize efficiency by letting some sleep while the truck does most of the driving.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/daimler-shows-off-automated-mercedes-115254151.html

That's what the first talk of Automation was about. In fact, some concepts had the lead truck being a sort of mobile home that carried 3-4 drivers and no actual cargo.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

AutobahnSHO

Future keeps arriving. Waymo (subset of Alphabet/Google) has rolled out minivans with no one in the driver seat. The backseat has an 'emergency stop' button.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/waymo-rolls-autonomous-vans-without-160252868.html

Will

CaminoRacer

My brother has seen those. I think he's on some sort of list to get a ride?
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 07, 2017, 04:03:42 PM
My brother has seen those. I think he's on some sort of list to get a ride?

that's sweet!!
Will


FoMoJo

Quote from: shp4man on November 08, 2017, 05:14:37 PM
Ruh-Ro...

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/11/08/self-driving-shuttle-crashes-in-las-vegas-hours-after-launch.html
A little more information; from the 'fake news' crowd...http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-41923814

A spokesman for the City of Las Vegas told the BBC the crash was a "fender bender" - a minor collision - and that the shuttle would likely be back out on the road on Thursday after some routine diagnostics tests.

"A delivery truck was coming out of an alley," public information officer Jace Radke said.

"The shuttle did what it was supposed to do and stopped. Unfortunately the human element, the driver of the truck, didn't stop."
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

AutobahnSHO

Lol the insurance is going to get intense, and I won't be surprised if they have tons of cameras. And manual car driving gets expensive.
Will

r0tor

On the "fender bender"...

From what I read, the shuttle sensed the truck coming down the alley and stopped in front of the truck and the truck ran into it.  Wondering if a human would have simply sped up or swerved out of the way to avoid the truck?

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

shp4man

Quote from: r0tor on November 09, 2017, 09:59:49 AM
On the "fender bender"...

From what I read, the shuttle sensed the truck coming down the alley and stopped in front of the truck and the truck ran into it.  Wondering if a human would have simply sped up or swerved out of the way to avoid the truck?



No "Get the fuck out of the way" subroutine?  :lol:

FoMoJo

Quote from: r0tor on November 09, 2017, 09:59:49 AM
On the "fender bender"...

From what I read, the shuttle sensed the truck coming down the alley and stopped in front of the truck and the truck ran into it.  Wondering if a human would have simply sped up or swerved out of the way to avoid the truck?
Several possibilities to consider.  Was the AI smart enough to know that if it kept going that the truck would've broadsided the bus and risked passenger injury?  Presumably, a front sensor picked up the motion of the truck and stopped because it calculated that the truck driver would be able to drive/swerve around it or stop; not considering that it was a human and capable of being an idiot.  Had it been an AI driving the truck, it might well have either stopped so as to avoid a collision or known there was enough space to maneuver around the bus.

"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

CaminoRacer

Stopping is the best choice 99% of the time
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

giant_mtb

Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 09, 2017, 10:38:59 AM
Stopping is the best choice 99% of the time

Agreed. If you're stopped, it's hard to be at fault.

r0tor

Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 09, 2017, 10:38:59 AM
Stopping is the best choice 99% of the time

Except when you apparently end up stopping in the direct path of a moving vehicle you predicted might hit you... Thereby ensuring you will be hit
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

CaminoRacer

Quote from: r0tor on November 09, 2017, 10:45:12 AM
Except when you apparently end up stopping in the direct path of a moving vehicle you predicted might hit you... Thereby ensuring you will be hit

As Giant said, that's not the fault of the AI.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Soup DeVille

Quote from: FoMoJo on November 09, 2017, 10:24:17 AM
Several possibilities to consider.  Was the AI smart enough to know that if it kept going that the truck would've broadsided the bus and risked passenger injury?  Presumably, a front sensor picked up the motion of the truck and stopped because it calculated that the truck driver would be able to drive/swerve around it or stop; not considering that it was a human and capable of being an idiot.  Had it been an AI driving the truck, it might well have either stopped so as to avoid a collision or known there was enough space to maneuver around the bus.



Wonder if it honks a horn?
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 09, 2017, 11:06:46 AM
Wonder if it honks a horn?

+1   Probably something to add to the programming. Report said the people inside saw the accident coming.

Again the humans vs AI driver phase is going to be interesting. :popcorn:
Will

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on November 09, 2017, 10:45:12 AM
Except when you apparently end up stopping in the direct path of a moving vehicle you predicted might hit you... Thereby ensuring you will be hit

Sure, but there are other factors to consider in such a situation. Do you swerve into oncoming traffic and potentially cause an accident yourself?  What if there's somebody behind you?  Can't reverse into them.  In such a quick, panic-like situation, stopping is often your best bet...let the other party take the fall and pay for the damages.

FoMoJo

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 09, 2017, 11:06:46 AM
Wonder if it honks a horn?
Could do, but only when a human is driving the other vehicle.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Soup DeVille

Quote from: FoMoJo on November 09, 2017, 01:28:28 PM
Could do, but only when a human is driving the other vehicle.

When it's two autonomous vehicles, they'll likely have transponders and real time communication between each other.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 09, 2017, 01:32:44 PM
When it's two autonomous vehicles, they'll likely have transponders and real time communication between each other.

That's phase 3. Fully automated.

Phase 1= all humans.

Phase 2= Humans & AI. Just started. Will evolve into complete Chaos at which point phase 3 will be mandatory. :mrcool: 
Will

FoMoJo

Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 09, 2017, 01:32:44 PM
When it's two autonomous vehicles, they'll likely have transponders and real time communication between each other.
The situation would never likely have occurred, unless there was a bug or a glitch in the software.  One would slow down and the other would pass by.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

r0tor

Quote from: giant_mtb on November 09, 2017, 01:16:32 PM
Sure, but there are other factors to consider in such a situation. Do you swerve into oncoming traffic and potentially cause an accident yourself?  What if there's somebody behind you?  Can't reverse into them.  In such a quick, panic-like situation, stopping is often your best bet...let the other party take the fall and pay for the damages.

I'd rather see if there is an option that does not involve getting hit.

The sheer point that this thing came to a stop in front of something it thought was going to hit it and take a side impact (the most dangerous for occupants) shows the software is not ready for primetime.  The programming is "something is wrong" -> "stop immediately" and not go through a list of alternatives.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

AutobahnSHO

Self-driving cars are still impossible.

Oh wait, In Finland one was spotted driving on snow-covered roads.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/finnish-autonomous-car-goes-leisurely-192829434.html
Will

Morris Minor

I have absolutely NO doubt that the future lies with autonomous cars. Protocol standards will emerge for vehicle-to-vehicle and vehicle-to-infrastructure. After that we'll be off to the races. As Will says, the transition will be interesting, but my hunch is that it will start with autonomous-only lanes on limited access highways. Once people see that in action, cars in virtual trains zooming past while they sit gridlocked, the adoption rate will grow exponentially.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

12,000 RPM

I am still not seeing it. How do the autonomous cars get to/from the exits? Merging into a backed up exit lane alone will be a huge analytical undertaking. Not saying it can't be done, but there's a lot of subtlety and nuance even in the awful standard of driving that exists in America.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 17, 2017, 11:53:36 AM
I am still not seeing it. How do the autonomous cars get to/from the exits? Merging into a backed up exit lane alone will be a huge analytical undertaking. Not saying it can't be done, but there's a lot of subtlety and nuance even in the awful standard of driving that exists in America.

they just trundle along like an 80yr old grandma. Everyone will pass the computer car because it will be too polite. :)
Will

Soup DeVille

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 17, 2017, 11:53:36 AM
I am still not seeing it. How do the autonomous cars get to/from the exits? Merging into a backed up exit lane alone will be a huge analytical undertaking. Not saying it can't be done, but there's a lot of subtlety and nuance even in the awful standard of driving that exists in America.

As transition, it may be that cars need to be piloted manually until they are in a position to request to enter automated mode.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

GoCougs

IMO it may "happen" just not within the next number of decades, for it requires inordinate amount of infrastructure spending and upheaval, and government power, esp. at the local/regional level.

But this was mostly "solved" ~100 years ago, with electric trolleys and commuter trains, but that's so unsexy and plebeian.