What would it take for you to give up car ownership for ride sharing?

[CaminoRacer]

There are plenty of jobs outside of major cities. And even a smaller city like Charlotte, Nashville, Cincinnati, etc. Are much less of a hassle to get around while providing a healthy job market.

[BimmerM3]

To what benefit? I get no joy from being in a city constantly. It's much nicer to live in a suburbs, work in the suburbs, and only go to the city for fun stuff. All the benefits without the drawbacks (parking, crime, COL, etc)

Commuting sucks in a lot of cities, and it's easy to say "work in the suburbs" but the reality is that most jobs (and often the best jobs) in many industries are in the city.

Crime often isn't as bad as it's made out to be (though obviously city and neighborhood dependent).

I quite enjoyed being able to walk to a lot of places, and Atlanta's not even a particularly pedestrian friendly city. I went to a music festival a few years back that was literally 1/4 mile from my apartment.

Even if I couldn't walk, taking an Uber a few miles across a city is WAY cheaper than one twenty miles from the suburbs, which lowers the cost of parking and helps to negate the COL advantage if you go into the city a lot.

There's more culture - better restaurants, more unique stores, better/easier access to quality music venues, theaters, museums, sporting arenas, and parks.

At least in my experience in the Atlanta area (super anecdotal, I know), the younger people who live in the city were generally more interesting people. Most of the young people that I've met in the Atlanta 'burbs work dead-end jobs, half of them never moved out of their parent's places, and they spend their free time hanging out at the same bar every night of the week. In the city, people generally had a purpose - even if they weren't career oriented, they were artists or musicians or something.



Don't get me wrong, it's not for everyone and I'm not necessarily suggesting that you should move to a city, but like most things in life, there are pros and cons, and different people have different opinions on how to weigh them against each other. And of course the individual cities themselves vary dramatically - I know people who hated living in NYC but love Atlanta, and vice versa.

Likewise not all suburbs are the same. One of the reasons I love Boulder is that it's kind of the best of both worlds. It's small enough that it's easy to walk or ride a bike if you want, but also doesn't have much traffic so driving isn't a chore. There are good job opportunities, motivated people with interesting hobbies, and a thriving art and music scene, so it's developed it's own unique culture and doesn't feel like a suburb.

[giant_mtb]

The one thing about cities is, yeah, there's so much available within walking distance or a quick Uber/public transport ride's distance.  But living in a city...I couldn't do.  I need a house/yard/garage/etc.  I'd feel too cooped up otherwise.  But I see why people like it.  I love visiting cities, especially with friends that live there.

[Raza]

An autonomous ride would have an optimized route that would be a lot shorter than whatever they do on the bus.

Yeah, but I was talking about buses and their cost compared to UberPool.

[Raza]

Work doesn't give you a parking space?  That whole idea seems crazy to us in the midwest.

Oh yeah, parking at my internship would have been $32 a day.  That ruled out driving pretty quickly.

[Raza]

To what benefit? I get no joy from being in a city constantly. It's much nicer to live in a suburbs, work in the suburbs, and only go to the city for fun stuff. All the benefits without the drawbacks (parking, crime, COL, etc)

Yeah, I forgot.  Most people on this forum are antisocial and view being around people and having easy access to art, culture, bars, and other amenities as a bad thing.  "I want my space and quiet and I want to live across the street from a house with a second floor that has no windows!"

[giant_mtb]

Hey now, it's a rental.

[CaminoRacer]

Yeah, I forgot.  Most people on this forum are antisocial and view being around people and having easy access to art, culture, bars, and other amenities as a bad thing.  "I want my space and quiet and I want to live across the street from a house with a second floor that has no windows!"

I've always lived <30 min outside of a medium sized city. Plenty of access to that when I want it.

Fact is that some of you think that there's living in the center of NYC and living in the middle of nowhere, with nothing in between. It's ridiculous.

[Raza]

Hey now, it's a rental.

[Raza]

I've always lived <30 min outside of a medium sized city. Plenty of access to that when I want it.

Fact is that some of you think that there's living in the center of NYC and living in the middle of nowhere, with nothing in between. It's ridiculous.

I grew up 35 minutes from Philadelphia. 

It basically is city or the middle of nowhere.  Every time I visit the suburbs, even a close one, I can't wait to get back to the city.  The second you want to do something as basic as eat a meal, you're relegated to choices that usually include something as horrible as an Olive Garden.

Furthermore, I hate people who come into the city.  They always come on big drinking days, like NYE, want to make the most of it, get sloppy drunk, rowdy as fuck, and then drive home.  It's a goddamn mess.

[Tave]

I drive too much for work for it to ever make sense for me.

[Soup DeVille]

Yeah, I forgot.  Most people on this forum are antisocial and view being around people and having easy access to art, culture, bars, and other amenities as a bad thing.  "I want my space and quiet and I want to live across the street from a house with a second floor that has no windows!"

What, you think the UP lacks for bars?

As for the arts? Well OK, you've got em, but you don't go to see them any more than your average suburbanite. In fact, usually you have to go because the suburbanite friends and relatives are visiting...

[12,000 RPM]

I grew up 35 minutes from Philadelphia. 

It basically is city or the middle of nowhere.  Every time I visit the suburbs, even a close one, I can't wait to get back to the city.  The second you want to do something as basic as eat a meal, you're relegated to choices that usually include something as horrible as an Olive Garden.

Furthermore, I hate people who come into the city.  They always come on big drinking days, like NYE, want to make the most of it, get sloppy drunk, rowdy as fuck, and then drive home.  It's a goddamn mess.

Maybe the specific suburbs you are in suck for food. I'm well outside the city core of Charlotte and am still pretty spoiled for choice. Still though, there's nothing like having Thai/French/sushi/"new American" all within ~300 feet of each other. But the suburbs aren't always terrible

[Raza]

What, you think the UP lacks for bars?

As for the arts? Well OK, you've got em, but you don't go to see them any more than your average suburbanite. In fact, usually you have to go because the suburbanite friends and relatives are visiting...

It's true that I wish I took greater advantage of the culture, but if I lived in the suburbs, I never would.

[Raza]

Maybe the specific suburbs you are in suck for food. I'm well outside the city core of Charlotte and am still pretty spoiled for choice. Still though, there's nothing like having Thai/French/sushi/"new American" all within ~300 feet of each other. But the suburbs aren't always terrible

There are a few good places, but once you run the rotation of the 5 good restaurants, you grow tired of them rather quickly.

[BimmerM3]

I've always lived <30 min outside of a medium sized city. Plenty of access to that when I want it.

Fact is that some of you think that there's living in the center of NYC and living in the middle of nowhere, with nothing in between. It's ridiculous.

It's only a little more ridiculous than saying that there are no benefits to living in the city.

People like different stuff, have different lifestyles, make different amounts of money, and have different priorities.

Even on the other end of the spectrum, I used to think that I'd HATE living in a small town. Turns out that I just don't like Southern, redneck small towns. Little mountain towns can be cool as fuck. I could absolutely see myself moving to somewhere like Salida a few years down the road.

[Soup DeVille]

Maybe the specific suburbs you are in suck for food. I'm well outside the city core of Charlotte and am still pretty spoiled for choice. Still though, there's nothing like having Thai/French/sushi/"new American" all within ~300 feet of each other. But the suburbs aren't always terrible

I find it's a matter of finding what you look for. My in-laws live in basically the same area as me. I doubt they are aware of the existence of non-chain restaurants in the area, despite the fact that there are some really good little Mexican joints right around the corner, and that there's a Korean barbecue place about half a mile away. They wouldn't care if it did either anyways, but my point is the things they see are the obvious ones, and if you look just a little closer, you can often find something worthwhile.

[MexicoCityM3]

I am about do have a huge lifestyle change. Today we live literally in the heart of the City. I shit you not, we have maybe 500 restaurants or choose from in a 2 mile radius.

We'll be moving to the suburbs of a much smaller city in a couple of months. I am keeping the apartment here for a year at least. We'll see how it goes but I am excited for the change along with my wife.

[Lebowski]

Yeah, I forgot.  Most people on this forum are antisocial and view being around people and having easy access to art, culture, bars, and other amenities as a bad thing.  "I want my space and quiet and I want to live across the street from a house with a second floor that has no windows!"

Pretty elitist pov. Art exists outside of big cities believe it or not, plus people who don't live in cities can travel to them to take those things in, by your own admission living there you don't take advantage often and I'd bet that's pretty typical (seems most of the people I know who live in NYC are such slaves to their jobs they don't get much time, plus take it for granted).

The restaurants/bars thing has narrowed considerably in the last 10 years or so.  Most areas with any population to speak of have good non-chain restaurants nowadays imo. We have way more than 5 good restaurants near me.

People who love big cities say there's more to do there, I feel like it's the opposite there is less to do.  There's more only if you define "things to do" as nightlife/bars etc, I always find after 2-3 days in a place like NYC I'm bored and ready to get out.

The antisocial thing, eh surrounding yourself with people doesn't automatically make you social (and aren't you by your own admission pretty antisocial). Witness the NYC subway stare where people pretty much are intentionally oblivious to everyone around them. If anything I think you could argue there is more sense of community in small-medium towns than big cities.

[BimmerM3]

(seems most of the people I know who live in NYC are such slaves to their jobs they don't get much time, plus take it for granted).

On the flip side, if you're that busy with your career, having quick and easy access to those things becomes more important so that you don't have to waste your valuable free time driving in and out of the city to take advantage of them when possible.

[MrH]

Houses in suburbs are generally surrounded by miles of other houses?

Lots of businesses move to the suburbs here.  Why pay more to be in a city, when all your employees live out in the suburbs anyways?

Within 2 miles of my house, there are 2 national HQs, and multiple other big company locations.

[Cookie Monster]

I work in downtown San Jose, which is essentially a big business park. There is no activity and not many restaurants here. I still pay $90/mo for parking. Granted, it's a nice parking garage, and I could pay as little as $10/mo for a parking spot farther away, but even here work doesn't pay for parking.

My work is old fashioned though. The big tech companies here have free parking garages for the most part.

Unfortunately for my line of work, I have to be in the city centers. Even the smaller cities don't have much to offer for what I do. Most job offers/listings I see are for SF, Chicago or NYC. Honestly though, I'd rather live in the suburbs because I need my garage and backyard to do shit in. I also need access to mountains and backroads without having to drive hours to get there, so I'm very picky when it comes to where I live, but what kind of work I do as well.

Back to the topic on hand, though, I think the cheapest Uber for my commute is around $12 each way. $25 a day. That more than covers gas + parking + insurance on my car, while not giving me any of the flexibility or convenience.

[BimmerM3]

Lots of businesses move to the suburbs here.  Why pay more to be in a city, when all your employees live out in the suburbs anyways?

Within 2 miles of my house, there are 2 national HQs, and multiple other big company locations.

Yeah, but compared to just about any city center, that's nothing. You'll find more than that in single buildings in a lot of places.

[giant_mtb]

Pretty elitist pov. Art exists outside of big cities believe it or not, plus people who don't live in cities can travel to them to take those things in, by your own admission living there you don't take advantage often and I'd bet that's pretty typical (seems most of the people I know who live in NYC are such slaves to their jobs they don't get much time, plus take it for granted).

Nature is art for us boonies dwellers.  I'd rather go on a hike or check out a nice view and see stuff than go to an "exhibit" of art.

[Laconian]

Nature is art for us boonies dwellers.  I'd rather go on a hike or check out a nice view and see stuff than go to an "exhibit" of art.

Not much nature to be found in suburban sprawl, except in the fanciful names of developments...

[giant_mtb]

Yeah, I forgot.  Most people on this forum are antisocial and view being around people and having easy access to art, culture, bars, and other amenities as a bad thing.  "I want my space and quiet and I want to live across the street from a house with a second floor that has no windows!"

Aren't you in Japan right now?  From what you've said, it's pretty fuckin' anti-social there, despite being surrounded by thousands and thousands of people constantly.  Come to a small town where basically everybody kinda knows who everybody is, and if you don't know who somebody is, you probably know somebody who does...it's difficult to be truly anti-social.

[CaminoRacer]

Aren't you in Japan right now?  From what you've said, it's pretty fuckin' anti-social there, despite being surrounded by thousands and thousands of people constantly.  Come to a small town where basically everybody kinda knows who everybody is, and if you don't know who somebody is, you probably know somebody who does...it's difficult to be truly anti-social.

Yes, constantly being surrounded by strangers in a "big pond" is sometimes much more lonely than being in a smaller pond where you can actually get to know your fellow pondmates.

[12,000 RPM]

Pretty elitist pov. Art exists outside of big cities believe it or not, plus people who don't live in cities can travel to them to take those things in, by your own admission living there you don't take advantage often and I'd bet that's pretty typical (seems most of the people I know who live in NYC are such slaves to their jobs they don't get much time, plus take it for granted).

The restaurants/bars thing has narrowed considerably in the last 10 years or so.  Most areas with any population to speak of have good non-chain restaurants nowadays imo. We have way more than 5 good restaurants near me.

People who love big cities say there's more to do there, I feel like it's the opposite there is less to do.  There's more only if you define "things to do" as nightlife/bars etc, I always find after 2-3 days in a place like NYC I'm bored and ready to get out.

The antisocial thing, eh surrounding yourself with people doesn't automatically make you social (and aren't you by your own admission pretty antisocial). Witness the NYC subway stare where people pretty much are intentionally oblivious to everyone around them. If anything I think you could argue there is more sense of community in small-medium towns than big cities.

An apt synopsis. I'm living proof. We do way more down here. More food, more art, more live music, more socializing. The whole "theres so much to do here" is a lie people in cities tell themselves. Its BS. I mean FWIW it's no problem for us to go up to NYC for a long weekend and take in more food and "culture" than we would have in a month living there. And with people being so much more relaxed and free with time and money it's much easier to socialize. We have more friends down here than we did in NYC.

Plus aside from having access to all the same cultural stuff (albeit obviously not as world class) I have a garage, a yard, access to lakes and pools and trails and shit as well within minutes rather than hours. It's absolutely no contest

[BimmerM3]

The whole "theres so much to do here" is a lie people in cities tell themselves. Its BS.

Speak for yourself. I definitely did more of that stuff living in midtown Atlanta than I do living in Boulder.

[Raza]

Pretty elitist pov.

I know. 

Art exists outside of big cities believe it or not, plus people who don't live in cities can travel to them to take those things in, by your own admission living there you don't take advantage often and I'd bet that's pretty typical (seems most of the people I know who live in NYC are such slaves to their jobs they don't get much time, plus take it for granted).

The restaurants/bars thing has narrowed considerably in the last 10 years or so.  Most areas with any population to speak of have good non-chain restaurants nowadays imo. We have way more than 5 good restaurants near me.

People who love big cities say there's more to do there, I feel like it's the opposite there is less to do.  There's more only if you define "things to do" as nightlife/bars etc, I always find after 2-3 days in a place like NYC I'm bored and ready to get out.

The antisocial thing, eh surrounding yourself with people doesn't automatically make you social (and aren't you by your own admission pretty antisocial). Witness the NYC subway stare where people pretty much are intentionally oblivious to everyone around them. If anything I think you could argue there is more sense of community in small-medium towns than big cities.

We can argue back and forth about specific pockets where there are up to 8 good restaurants, but the fact of the matter is that, on average, there is much, much, much more to do in a city than in a suburb.  As for there being fewer things to do that aren't the nightlife, you let me know when Hamilton comes to some random Floridian suburb.   

And I'm an ambivert, not antisocial.  And while I don't get to enjoy the arts as much as I would like, there's even less of a chance I'd be able to enjoy them at all if I lived another 30 minutes from the city and had a longer commute to contend with. 

Look, if you like the suburban life that's cool.  If city life isn't for you, that's cool too.  The suburbs have their advantages, sure.  But there's no need to take it so personally, especially when half of my post was a clear tongue-in-cheek dig at giant_mtb, who actually does live across the street from a house that has no windows on the second floor.