Star Trek or Star Wars?

[Rupert]

Also on the Star Wars front were the spin-off TV series, which were also hit or miss (more hit than miss, IMO).  The original Droids and Ewoks animated series from the mid-80s weren't particularly good.  Both Clone Wars animated series (the mini-series of shorts by Genndy Tartakovsky and the longer running CGI series) were excellent.  The newer Rebels series hasn't been quite as good as its immediate predecessors (the best episodes are as good as anything from The Clone Wars series, but not as consistently good), but is decent.

The best Rebels episodes are better than the best Clone Wars episodes, IMO, but I agree that they vary a lot, down to being not very good pretty often.

The Tartakovsky animations were brilliant, a mile above the others, but I was a big Samurai Jack fan (for the first season) back in the day.

[Soup DeVille]

Q

Hey, nobody's perfect.

[Rupert]

Q is.

[Soup DeVille]

Q is.

Just ask him?

[Rupert]

If you can find him. I mean, why would he lie?

[GoCougs]

FWIW, the Forbidden Planet was intended as a sci-if adaptation of Shakespeare's The Tempest, and it holds up pretty well even today.

It is one of my favorite movies, and holds up today, save for some of the piloting of the ship in the beginning.

There are some parallels with The Tempest but it doesn't hold as a retelling, IMO particularly the ending, and the ultimate lesson. It is more Frankenstein, and the perils of humanity with "god" technology (and still way far away from a retelling). I think it stands alone plenty well.

I can't recommend it enough.

[GoCougs]

Q

"Q" (John de Lancie) both as the actor and the dialog given to him was leagues beyond anything in Star Wars.

[Laconian]

Why didn't he have a bigger career? I loved how he played Q to the hilt.

[GoCougs]

I'm not sure if screen acting was his primary gig/focus, but just in general, there are tons of very talented artistic types that never make it big. Plus, probably looks had something to do with it - not a typical hunk/lead but also not a quirky sideman looker like WH Macy or Steve Buscemi.

[veeman]

Star Wars.  From 1977 to 1999, nothing inspired so many kids to act out their fantasies as did the Star Wars trilogy.  Yoda and Vader quotes were instantly recognizable and often repeated.  The concept of the "Force" was even religion to some fanatics.  Every kid has played with a toy light saber.  There was so much international fervor for Phantom Menace.  It was palpable in the streets.  People waiting hours in line to watch on opening night.  People even payed money to just see the original 3 movies again in the theater with some added irrelevant digitally created creatures thrown in and brighter colors.  And then George Lucas screwed it all up with the greatest movie disappointment in history.

Star Trek and all its spin offs is niche.  It's probably better written, overall better acted, better whatever.  But Star Wars is part of the fabric of our culture that Spock's hand gesture just can't compete with. 

[93JC]

Hmm, I dunno man, I was a kid in that time frame and by the early '90s Star Wars seemed to have very little pop culture relevancy. I never played with a toy light sabre; by the late '80s they didn't exist anymore. When they re-released the original films to theatres in 1997 there was an excitement for it but it came from the adults who were old enough to have seen and vividly remembered when the first one came out 20 years prior, not the kids. There was indeed a yuuuge amount of hype in anticipation of The Phantom Menace, in no small part because of the marketing machine that Lucasfilm/20th Century Fox had become. The disappointment was palpable too, from the opening crawl's prattling about trade embargoes or some bullshit.

I think you vastly underestimate how much currency, say, Spock's hand gesture has in pop culture.

[Soup DeVille]

The success of Star Wars unleashed a entire new generation of Sci-Fi movies and franchises. From Battlestar Galactica, to Buck Rogers; even arguably to Star Trek TNG, they all existed because Star Wars showed what a succesful franchise in that genre can be.

[BimmerM3]

Hmm, I dunno man, I was a kid in that time frame and by the early '90s Star Wars seemed to have very little pop culture relevancy. I never played with a toy light sabre; by the late '80s they didn't exist anymore. When they re-released the original films to theatres in 1997 there was an excitement for it but it came from the adults who were old enough to have seen and vividly remembered when the first one came out 20 years prior, not the kids. There was indeed a yuuuge amount of hype in anticipation of The Phantom Menace, in no small part because of the marketing machine that Lucasfilm/20th Century Fox had become. The disappointment was palpable too, from the opening crawl's prattling about trade embargoes or some bullshit.

I think you vastly underestimate how much currency, say, Spock's hand gesture has in pop culture.

Prior to the prequels in the 90s, it probably had to do with parents more than anything. But I was born in '87 and I was absolutely a Star Wars fan prior to the prequels coming out since I grew up watching them thanks to my parents.

Today, it's undeniable that Star Wars is the bigger franchise. In the US, The Force Awakens grossed almost 1.5x as much as all three of the Star Trek reboots combined, and Rogue One still did twice as well as the first (and most successful) Trek reboot. It's just something that appeals to a larger audience.

[MX793]

Prior to the prequels in the 90s, it probably had to do with parents more than anything. But I was born in '87 and I was absolutely a Star Wars fan prior to the prequels coming out since I grew up watching them thanks to my parents.

Today, it's undeniable that Star Wars is the bigger franchise. In the US, The Force Awakens grossed almost 1.5x as much as all three of the Star Trek reboots combined, and Rogue One still did twice as well as the first (and most successful) Trek reboot. It's just something that appeals to a larger audience.

Bit older than you, but I was born, after the original films were in theaters.  I think I first saw the Star Wars films in the late 80s.  My parents weren't (and still aren't) much into scifi-type movies and definitely not Star Wars fans.  Not sure they'd even seen any of the Star Wars movies before we watched them as a family.  I was immediately hooked.  Most of my friends were introduced at around the same time and most of them were equally enthralled.  I remember pretending wiffle ball bats were lightsabers and have sword fights with my friends every afternoon after school.  At the same time, the marketing machine had gone cold.  It was a hugely successful movie series that had been played out and now people were on to the next new thing.  They weren't making Star Wars toys or other merchandise anymore.  It had largely fallen off the map.  I remember being really jealous of one of my friends, who had much older siblings, who had the full set of original Star Wars action figures that got handed down to him.  They had long since stopped making them by that point and the only place you could get them is if you scored some at a yard sale or at collectible toy expos (where you'd pay an arm and a leg for a mint-condition one).

[giant_mtb]

I prefer the epics like Prometheus, Alien, 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc. when it comes to the space stuff.  I get turned off by lots of sequels, prequels, and "next generations."  Usually just feels like a money grab to me. Three movies for a series is really enough, IMO.  Though it's not like I don't appreciate the depth and work that goes into things like Star Wars or Star Trek. I've honestly never watched Star Trek, so I can't knock it 'til I rock it, but it's not my cup of tea.

[Rupert]

"Q" (John de Lancie) both as the actor and the dialog given to him was leagues beyond anything in Star Wars.

You mean he isn't that annoying in person? After Wesley Crusher, Q is probably the most annoying in a bad way Trek character.

Maybe third after Neelix or fourth after Ezri Dax. Or fifth after Neelix's girlfriend in S01...

[Raza]

Prior to the prequels in the 90s, it probably had to do with parents more than anything. But I was born in '87 and I was absolutely a Star Wars fan prior to the prequels coming out since I grew up watching them thanks to my parents.

Today, it's undeniable that Star Wars is the bigger franchise. In the US, The Force Awakens grossed almost 1.5x as much as all three of the Star Trek reboots combined, and Rogue One still did twice as well as the first (and most successful) Trek reboot. It's just something that appeals to a larger audience.

You and I are about the same age, and when the remasters hit the movie theaters in the mid to late 90s, my friends and I rushed out to see them.  Seeing Empire Strikes Back with my friends Matt and Danny in 5th grade is one of my favorite childhood memories. 

[Soup DeVille]

You and I are about the same age, and when the remasters hit the movie theaters in the mid to late 90s, my friends and I rushed out to see them.  Seeing Empire Strikes Back with my friends Matt and Danny in 5th grade is one of my favorite childhood memories. 

Damn you fuckers make me feel old.

[Raza]

Prometheus, Alien

I get turned off by lots of sequels, prequels, and "next generations."

Alien, Aliens, Alien III, Alien: Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator (crossover), Alien vs. Predator Requiem (crossover), Prometheus (prequel), Alien: Covenant (prequel). 

There are as many Alien movies as there are Fast and Furious movies and Star Wars movies.  A quadrilogy, two crossovers, and two prequels.  And I bet Alien: Covenant will have a sequel too. 

[Raza]

Damn you fuckers make me feel old.

I make myself feel old.

[BimmerM3]

You and I are about the same age, and when the remasters hit the movie theaters in the mid to late 90s, my friends and I rushed out to see them.  Seeing Empire Strikes Back with my friends Matt and Danny in 5th grade is one of my favorite childhood memories. 

I think you've got a couple of years on me, but yeah, I remember my dad taking me to see Ep IV in the theater, and how awesome it was to watch the movie in a theater instead of on VHS at home (which I actually still have They're the only VHSs I've hung on to).

[Raza]

I think you've got a couple of years on me, but yeah, I remember my dad taking me to see Ep IV in the theater, and how awesome it was to watch the movie in a theater instead of on VHS at home (which I actually still have They're the only VHSs I've hung on to).

I'm only a year older than you.  Born 1986.  I just embrace my oldness.

[SJ_GTI]

Alien, Aliens, Alien III, Alien: Resurrection, Alien vs. Predator (crossover), Alien vs. Predator Requiem (crossover), Prometheus (prequel), Alien: Covenant (prequel). 

There are as many Alien movies as there are Fast and Furious movies and Star Wars movies.  A quadrilogy, two crossovers, and two prequels.  And I bet Alien: Covenant will have a sequel too.

Alien: Covenant was definitely written with a sequel in mind. It was a bit of a bust at the box office though so I am not sure if it will get made.

I think I also heard they are considering a new sequel to Aliens, which would essentially ignore Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection.

Also worth noting that Prometheus essentially wiped out the "continuity" of the Alien v Predator movies. IIRC the new Star Wars films still consider all the crappy movies (prequels) as canon.

Fun fact: Even though I am not remotely a fan of the AvP movies, the first one was actually based on a story written by the guys who created (wrote) the original Alien movie. The first AvP movie introduced Weyland (played by the same actor who played the Bishop android) and then the second movie introduced Yutani at the end.

[MX793]

There's an Easter egg in Prometheus that strongly hints at a link between Peter Wayland and Eldon Tyrell (from Blade runner).

[SJ_GTI]

There's an Easter egg in Prometheus that strongly hints at a link between Peter Wayland and Eldon Tyrell (from Blade runner).

I didn't catch that myself but I heard a reviewer mention it before. Do you know what the easter egg/hint/link actually is?

[MX793]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/moviepilot.com/posts/3889464/amp

[cawimmer430]

I used to enjoy Star Trek when I was younger, but seeing the reruns now on TV reminds me of how campy and cheesy many episodes are. I never got into Star Wars and to this day I have not seen a single Star Wars film, so I guess my answer will be Star Trek, especially helped by the great story arc of Deep Space 9 (despite having also many crap episodes!). 


By the way, for those of you who are SciFi geeks, this page reviews Star Trek, Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica etc. in detail on an episode-to-episode, season-to-season and movie style. The comments section is especially entertaining. 

http://www.jammersreviews.com/

[GoCougs]

The top 5-10 ST:TNG episodes seal the deal over which is better:

The Inner Light
The Defector
Measure of a Man
Tapestry
Cause and Effect
Darmok
Lower Decks
Yesterday's Enterprise
All Good Things...

[93JC]

Prior to the prequels in the 90s, it probably had to do with parents more than anything. But I was born in '87 and I was absolutely a Star Wars fan prior to the prequels coming out since I grew up watching them thanks to my parents.

I'm a little older than you and I was a fan of both, and grew up with Star Wars too, due entirely to home video. Like I said, by the late '80s Star Wars was in many respects passé and a fad that was seemingly over, succinctly echoed by MX793:

At the same time, the marketing machine had gone cold.  It was a hugely successful movie series that had been played out and now people were on to the next new thing.  They weren't making Star Wars toys or other merchandise anymore.  It had largely fallen off the map.  I remember being really jealous of one of my friends, who had much older siblings, who had the full set of original Star Wars action figures that got handed down to him.  They had long since stopped making them by that point and the only place you could get them is if you scored some at a yard sale or at collectible toy expos (where you'd pay an arm and a leg for a mint-condition one).

I remember finding a Yoda action figure buried in the playground at my school; it was like an archaeological find. I imagine it would be especially hard for people born post-1990ish to believe but by the turn of that decade Star Wars really had "gone cold" and was "played out". That's really all I was remarking on, veeman's assertion, "From 1977 to 1999, nothing inspired so many kids to act out their fantasies as did the Star Wars trilogy." I was there and I can say from about 1987 to 1997 that just wasn't true.

I feel 1987 and 1997 were the cut-offs because 1997 was when they re-released the "special editions" in theatres, which in no small part sold the idea of a prequel trilogy on Fox, and 1987 because that's the year Spaceballs came out. Interest in Star Wars hit a nadir when it became the punchline to a joke. (The cynical part of me thinks Lucas wanted to make the prequel trilogy for no other reason than, as 'Yogurt' would put it: "Moichandising! Moichandising!")

Today, it's undeniable that Star Wars is the bigger franchise. In the US, The Force Awakens grossed almost 1.5x as much as all three of the Star Trek reboots combined, and Rogue One still did twice as well as the first (and most successful) Trek reboot. It's just something that appeals to a larger audience.

At this point I can't deny that Star Wars makes more money, but that's not really what I was remarking on in the first place. Arguing Star Trek is culturally 'niche' is a little silly, I think. It's perhaps a little morbid but I think all the evidence one needs as proof that Star Trek is still relevant is the passing of Leonard Nimoy a couple years ago. He was 83 and had done very little acting other than Star Trek movies and guest appearances on TV since the 1980s, and there was still a huge popular outpouring of grief and sadness when it was announced that he'd died. No smaller than when Carrie Fisher died six months ago.

To say "Star Wars is part of the fabric of our culture that Spock's hand gesture just can't compete with," is, at best, naive. I don't think the "it made more money" argument holds water: Avatar and Titanic made more money (worldwide) than The Force Awakens did but I wouldn't argue those movies are more culturally relevant. Adjusted for inflation ET: The Extra-Terrestrial is still far higher grossing than The Force Awakens, and I wouldn't argue it was particularly relevant past 1985ish. Avatar too was but a passing fad.

I guess my overarching point is that there's a recency bias at work here.

[GoCougs]

The top 5-10 ST:TNG episodes seal the deal over which is better:

The Inner Light
The Defector
Measure of a Man
Tapestry
Cause and Effect
Darmok
Lower Decks
Yesterday's Enterprise
All Good Things...

For you TNG buffs, the best TNG episode, "The Inner Light," debuted on this exact day 25 years ago.