Cheap Porsche Ownership

[cawimmer430]

Certain things matter to certain audiences. This is why Chris Harris will never review something like that Mirage.

I know, I know. But if he did I'd have a feeling that he'd at least be objective!

[cawimmer430]

Sure he would.  The Mirage gets criticized not because it's simply slow or handles poorly, but because it's significantly slower and worse handling than its chief competitors (Fiesta, Yaris, Rio, Accent, Spark, Fit), none of which are particularly fast cars.  There are expectations that cars within a certain price point should deliver a certain level of content (creature comforts) and performance.  The Mirage is outside of the target.

I assume the Mirage is also the cheapest car in this class, correct? In that case the car would sell on price and most owners probably don't have any high expectations. They need or want something cheap and fuel efficient to bring them from A to B.

There is an affordable Sushi restaurant on my street and as I recently discovered the Vietnamese owners have a beat up Space Star (your Mirage) which they seem to use to drive to their suppliers, pick up the ingredients and transport them back to their restaurant. For those purposes the car seems fine. And if they use the car for private purposes it gets them from A to B.

Looks like this...




No doubt it's not a good car for us enthusiasts, but for some people out there who just want/need something cheap it's an appealing package, I suppose.

No one is going to get in a 2CV and rip it apart for being a slow car for the same reason no one would get in a Model T or original VW Type I Beetle and trash them for being slow.  They were cars designed and built for a very different time (a time when all cars were much slower than today) and cars that were, in their own ways, innovative or ground-breaking or historically significant.  There is nothing innovative, ground-breaking, or historically significant about the latest Mirage.  It's simply a cheap, slow, ill-driving economy car that is significantly worse than other cars that cost the same money.

Good points. 

It would be interesting to read up on the reasons why a Mirage/Space Star owner bought the car in the first place. My guess would be price (especially in Europe where this thing is dirt cheap).

[MX793]

I assume the Mirage is also the cheapest car in this class, correct?

Chevy Spark is the same price and the Versa sedan is ~$1000 cheaper (just comparing base trims of all cars in discussion), if it's purely a "get me the cheapest new car available" discussion.  Feature content is pretty comparable.

[BimmerM3]

I assume the Mirage is also the cheapest car in this class, correct? In that case the car would sell on price and most owners probably don't have any high expectations. They need or want something cheap and fuel efficient to bring them from A to B.

The reviewer's job is to let the consumer know what they're giving up to get that price. If the sole appeal to the consumer is price, then they'll ignore the review and buy anyway.

[2o6]

The Mirage is a dumpy car, and only sells so well in the US because Mitsubishi has easy credit and they're practically giving them away.


It looks, handles, and drives like trash. Why do you keep saying otherwise.

[MX793]

The Mirage is a dumpy car, and only sells so well in the US because Mitsubishi has easy credit and they're practically giving them away.


It looks, handles, and drives like trash. Why do you keep saying otherwise.

Cheap/Easy credit is basically the only reason Mitsu is still selling cars in the US, and it's the same practice that nearly sunk them in the late 90s when all of those people who couldn't get credit anywhere else (for good reason) defaulted on their car loans.

[dazzleman]

His videos are cheesy, but his cheerful personality has to count for something!

His videos are pretty campy but I like that type of thing sometimes.

[cawimmer430]

How did Mitsubishi end up becoming the joke that it is in the US at the moment?

When I think back to say the mid-1990s they had a pretty strong and competitive lineup. Cars like the Galant, Diamante, Montero, Eclipse and Lancer would never touch the other Japanese brands in terms of sales, but you could say these products were unique and appealing and above all competitive.

How did they fall so badly? What happened?

[12,000 RPM]

I know, I know. But if he did I'd have a feeling that he'd at least be objective!

Eh. I think you are seeking out the wrong things from these reviews. Their main purpose is largely entertainment, not objective info to help people make buying decisions.

Even the most unbiased source, Consumer Reports, has bias. They dinged my wife's car for  its infotainment system. "Too complicated!" they whined. We both like it. So everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. I think you call things "unbiased" when the reviewer's bias matches your own. Not bad to seek out similar viewpoints, but stop painting it as "objective".

[12,000 RPM]

How did Mitsubishi end up becoming the joke that it is in the US at the moment?

When I think back to say the mid-1990s they had a pretty strong and competitive lineup. Cars like the Galant, Diamante, Montero, Eclipse and Lancer would never touch the other Japanese brands in terms of sales, but you could say these products were unique and appealing and above all competitive.

How did they fall so badly? What happened?

It's one of many zombie Japanese firms (Google the term). It should have went out of business long ago, but the JApanese govt won't let it fail.

[MX793]

How did Mitsubishi end up becoming the joke that it is in the US at the moment?

When I think back to say the mid-1990s they had a pretty strong and competitive lineup. Cars like the Galant, Diamante, Montero, Eclipse and Lancer would never touch the other Japanese brands in terms of sales, but you could say these products were unique and appealing and above all competitive.

How did they fall so badly? What happened?

Lots of factors at play.  For starters, they partnered with Chrysler (and at one point Chrysler owned a sizeable portion) in the 80s through the 90s.  Chrysler is America's Fiat, so you can imagine that they didn't exactly have a positive influence.  Mitsu never had the reliability reputation of Toyota or Honda, or to a lesser extent Nissan.

The Japanese economy was completely in the toilet in the mid to late 90s.  All of the Japanese companies took a beating and it showed in their products.  Japanese cars or the very late 90s and early 00s were, IMO, worse in many respects than their immediate forebears.  There was a cheapening in terms of materials and fit and finish. 

Then you had MMNA offering their 0-0-0 (0 down payment, 0 interest, 0 payments for 12 months) financing deal in the early 00s to chase sales volume in the US.  This deal nearly sunk them.  A large number of customers who took advantage of this deal defaulted at the end of the 12 month period and stuck MMNA with a whole lot of cars for which they hadn't been paid a cent for and that were worth less than they cost to make.

Also in the early 00s, Mitsu got caught up in a huge recall cover-up scandal (mostly affected Japanese market vehicles) which further dented their finances with recalls and penalties.

Add it all together, and Mitsu's finances were in dire straights and they were badly in debt.  This showed in their products, as they stretched product cycles out longer and cheapened their cars, making them even less competitive at a time when the other major Japanese makes were starting on an upswing.  After they dropped the 0-0-0 financing deal that nearly sank them, sales volume also dropped sharply (not that those cars they basically gave away for free can count towards "sales").  At this time, Daimler-Chrysler also abruptly cut ties, which cut off funds.  As Mitsu got less competitive with the larger Japanese makes, you had the Koreans making huge strides in the value segment in the early to mid 00s, offering long warranties and a lot of value for money.  They sort of entered a death spiral.  Tanking sales, dropping revenues, aging products, and no money to overhaul their lineup and make it competitive again.

[12,000 RPM]

Ohhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeaaaa, I totally forgot about the 0-0-0-0-0-0-0 deal. I remember those commercials as a kid. Even in like middle school I thought "theres no way that can work "

[Laconian]

0-0-0 made the cars seriously declassé.

[cawimmer430]

Eh. I think you are seeking out the wrong things from these reviews. Their main purpose is largely entertainment, not objective info to help people make buying decisions.

Even the most unbiased source, Consumer Reports, has bias. They dinged my wife's car for  its infotainment system. "Too complicated!" they whined. We both like it. So everything has to be taken with a grain of salt. I think you call things "unbiased" when the reviewer's bias matches your own. Not bad to seek out similar viewpoints, but stop painting it as "objective".

Indeed, most reviews seem to have an entertainment/bias factor factored in.

I have long been wary of the way Consumer Reports rates cars for quality or reliability. For example I've read that if a car's infotainment system or a particular feature is difficult to use the car will receive poor quality or even poor reliability marks. It just seems bizarre. Once owners get used to the feature, operating it should not be a problem, so this whole "confusing to use" aspect should not be used by the organization.

[cawimmer430]

Lots of factors at play.  For starters, they partnered with Chrysler (and at one point Chrysler owned a sizeable portion) in the 80s through the 90s.  Chrysler is America's Fiat, so you can imagine that they didn't exactly have a positive influence.  Mitsu never had the reliability reputation of Toyota or Honda, or to a lesser extent Nissan.

The Japanese economy was completely in the toilet in the mid to late 90s.  All of the Japanese companies took a beating and it showed in their products.  Japanese cars or the very late 90s and early 00s were, IMO, worse in many respects than their immediate forebears.  There was a cheapening in terms of materials and fit and finish. 

Then you had MMNA offering their 0-0-0 (0 down payment, 0 interest, 0 payments for 12 months) financing deal in the early 00s to chase sales volume in the US.  This deal nearly sunk them.  A large number of customers who took advantage of this deal defaulted at the end of the 12 month period and stuck MMNA with a whole lot of cars for which they hadn't been paid a cent for and that were worth less than they cost to make.

Also in the early 00s, Mitsu got caught up in a huge recall cover-up scandal (mostly affected Japanese market vehicles) which further dented their finances with recalls and penalties.

Add it all together, and Mitsu's finances were in dire straights and they were badly in debt.  This showed in their products, as they stretched product cycles out longer and cheapened their cars, making them even less competitive at a time when the other major Japanese makes were starting on an upswing.  After they dropped the 0-0-0 financing deal that nearly sank them, sales volume also dropped sharply (not that those cars they basically gave away for free can count towards "sales").  At this time, Daimler-Chrysler also abruptly cut ties, which cut off funds.  As Mitsu got less competitive with the larger Japanese makes, you had the Koreans making huge strides in the value segment in the early to mid 00s, offering long warranties and a lot of value for money.  They sort of entered a death spiral.  Tanking sales, dropping revenues, aging products, and no money to overhaul their lineup and make it competitive again.

Interesting and thanks for the explanation. It does sound like their finance deals hurt them in the end.

During the 1990s my family was big on Mitsubishis. We had a 1989 Galant 1600 Super Saloon and a 1992 Galant GTI 2.0 DOHC 16V as well as a 1996 Pajero 2500 Intercooler Turbo[diesel]. These were great cars by all accounts. The only thing ever went wrong as the A/C system failing on all of them at 60,000 km and on the GTI the suspension gave out at 70,000 km. Other than that they were great cars that were fun to drive and left me with a positive impression of the brand.

We even had a late 1970s Mitsubishi Galant, the car I grew up in. I remember it being very reliable and good-looking (I mean check it out!).




I still have a soft spot for Mitsubishi, mostly because of my childhood memories, and of course because I genuinely liked their past designs over those of their Japanese rivals. At a time when Toyota, Nissan, Honda and Mazda were churning out dull cars, it seemed to me that Mitsubishi was the only one placing emphasis on design.

Their lineup (also in Europe) has since become dull, uncompetitive and a joke. It's sad. 

[Raza]

Lots of factors at play.  For starters, they partnered with Chrysler (and at one point Chrysler owned a sizeable portion) in the 80s through the 90s.  Chrysler is America's Fiat, so you can imagine that they didn't exactly have a positive influence.  Mitsu never had the reliability reputation of Toyota or Honda, or to a lesser extent Nissan.

The Japanese economy was completely in the toilet in the mid to late 90s.  All of the Japanese companies took a beating and it showed in their products.  Japanese cars or the very late 90s and early 00s were, IMO, worse in many respects than their immediate forebears.  There was a cheapening in terms of materials and fit and finish. 

Then you had MMNA offering their 0-0-0 (0 down payment, 0 interest, 0 payments for 12 months) financing deal in the early 00s to chase sales volume in the US.  This deal nearly sunk them.  A large number of customers who took advantage of this deal defaulted at the end of the 12 month period and stuck MMNA with a whole lot of cars for which they hadn't been paid a cent for and that were worth less than they cost to make.

Also in the early 00s, Mitsu got caught up in a huge recall cover-up scandal (mostly affected Japanese market vehicles) which further dented their finances with recalls and penalties.

Add it all together, and Mitsu's finances were in dire straights and they were badly in debt.  This showed in their products, as they stretched product cycles out longer and cheapened their cars, making them even less competitive at a time when the other major Japanese makes were starting on an upswing.  After they dropped the 0-0-0 financing deal that nearly sank them, sales volume also dropped sharply (not that those cars they basically gave away for free can count towards "sales").  At this time, Daimler-Chrysler also abruptly cut ties, which cut off funds.  As Mitsu got less competitive with the larger Japanese makes, you had the Koreans making huge strides in the value segment in the early to mid 00s, offering long warranties and a lot of value for money.  They sort of entered a death spiral.  Tanking sales, dropping revenues, aging products, and no money to overhaul their lineup and make it competitive again.

Oh man, I remember that. Even as a high schooler, I was like "How are these motherfuckers going to stay in business?" They've been on the verge of death for a while now; I can't imagine getting into one without know where I can get it serviced as time moves on and Mitsubishi pulls out of the US.

It's crazy. I've never owned a Mitsubishi product that wasn't quality. Phones, TVs, et al. Mitsubishi is one of the original zaibatsus, one of the Japanese giants. Hard to believe that they can't put together a decent and marketable car.

[AutobahnSHO]

I see a lot of Mitsus here, cheap Subaru knockoffs?...

[MX793]

I see a lot of Mitsus here, cheap Subaru knockoffs?...

Same reason Hyndai/Kia are hugely popular in economically depressed Upstate.  Cheap and/or easier to get financing.