Four-place coupe: Is it dead?

[2o6]

I was going to comment on veeman's Reply about the Lexus being useless in back, because it's a 2+2 not a "four place" coupe.


Then, I started thinking of it; when was then last time you've seen a two-door "four place" coupe? They've all been sort of usurped by these new school four door coupes!

[MX793]

I can't think of many 2-door, 2+2s that have ever had particularly usable rear seats.  2-door sedans like the Challenger and last Accord, sure.

[12,000 RPM]

I think the 4 series back seat is pretty usable. I haven't been in it but it's a big car.



The way I see it, if you're gonna have 4 seats you might as well have 4 doors. There is rarely a dynamic advantage, and for every coupe that makes you fawn (Q60) there are a good 5 or so that make you yawn (ATS, 4, A5) or recoil (RC= ReCoil). Only coupe I would look at is probably the Mustang once my kids can do front facing seats.... and with the G's size and weight turning me off more and more that doesn't look like an option

[Rich]

S class coupe

[MexicoCityM3]

4 series is good, 2 series is reasonable. I guess the C and E class coupes are ok too. Probably the A5 as well.

[12,000 RPM]

Oh yea, I spent a weekend riding in the back of a 2 series. It was not bad. Not much worse than the G to be honest. BMW has been working on the four place coupe for 50 years... they have figured it out.

[veeman]

VW Beetle

[Submariner]

The S class coupe has a very decent back seat for my 6'3" frame.  The E cabrio isn't too shabby either.  Not sure about the C though...

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

S class coupe

That's the first one that came to mind for me also.....

[MexicoCityM3]

Rolls Royce Wraith

[12,000 RPM]

Murano Crosscabriolet

Evoque Convertible

[2o6]

Murano Crosscabriolet

Evoque Convertible

[SJ_GTI]

Yeah 2-series back seats were not too bad...main problem was crawling in back (fine for someone like me or maybe kids, but I wouldn't ask a co-worker...particularly one wearing a dress...to attempt it).

I am efinitely of the mind if you are going to have a usable back seat you may as well have 4-doors. Even though I am a single guy I get enough use out of the back seats to make it worth it to have the extra doors.

[r0tor]

The lack of a 4 door 2er model in the face of all of BMWs other variants is really infuriating

Rear suicide doors like on the RX8 would be so easy

[AutobahnSHO]

The lack of a 4 door 2er model in the face of all of BMWs other variants is really infuriating

Rear suicide doors like on the RX8 would be so easy

+1

[ChrisV]

The way I see it, if you're gonna have 4 seats you might as well have 4 doors.

I disagree, and the big coupe market used to be HUGE, with everything from the classic cars and musclecars to sporty luxury coupes. Chevelle SS to Mercedes SECs... My favorite category of car:













If I could I'd build a 2 door version of my E38...

[12,000 RPM]

I mean, the market agrees. For whatever reason- IMO likely good ones- people are not looking at cars as means of personal expression anymore. I say that's a good thing, because there are far cheaper, more creative and IMO healthier ways of achieving that end.

[ChrisV]

Healthier? Your car, home, etc. ARE personal expressions. Even when you don't want them to be. Yeah, the market agrees that boring practicality is the norm UNTIL you get to ultra expensive cars and musclecars. There used to be a plethora of 2 door cars on the market, and just about every model had a 2 door version or even a couple 2 door versions (both 2 door sedans and coupes in the same model line). And inexpensive sports cars were numerous, not just one or two models. People have just gotten boring in their car choices. Add to that the ubiquitous McMansion and HOAs that demand you be conservative and conforming and you get a dearth of individuality and creativity overall.

[CaminoRacer]

Healthier? Your car, home, etc. ARE personal expressions. Even when you don't want them to be. Yeah, the market agrees that boring practicality is the norm UNTIL you get to ultra expensive cars and musclecars. There used to be a plethora of 2 door cars on the market, and just about every model had a 2 door version or even a couple 2 door versions (both 2 door sedans and coupes in the same model line). And inexpensive sports cars were numerous, not just one or two models. People have just gotten boring in their car choices. Add to that the ubiquitous McMansion and HOAs that demand you be conservative and conforming and you get a dearth of individuality and creativity overall.

Yeah but my Instagram account is full a pics of my personalized Starbucks lattes

[mzziaz]

Fuck, every time you come by, Chris, I wind up checking out E38s

[Raza]

I don't think I could bring myself to buy a fixed roof two door car unless I already had a fun open top car and a practical car. Like, I see that 6 series and I love it, but I'd never choose one as an only car or a second car.

[12,000 RPM]

Healthier? Your car, home, etc. ARE personal expressions. Even when you don't want them to be. Yeah, the market agrees that boring practicality is the norm UNTIL you get to ultra expensive cars and musclecars. There used to be a plethora of 2 door cars on the market, and just about every model had a 2 door version or even a couple 2 door versions (both 2 door sedans and coupes in the same model line). And inexpensive sports cars were numerous, not just one or two models. People have just gotten boring in their car choices. Add to that the ubiquitous McMansion and HOAs that demand you be conservative and conforming and you get a dearth of individuality and creativity overall.

I would hardly call something like a 2 door Dodge Aries or Ford Fairmont an "expressive" car choice. LEts not get carried away here. I'm pretty sure those 2 door versions were just cheaper, and every dollar counted with interest rates were like 20%. Now people don't have to compromise.

[MX793]

For all of the "lame" 2-door Tercels or Tempos, there used to be a plethora of legitimately attractive, and fun-to-drive, affordable coupes based on mainstream chassis.  MX-3, MX-6, Probe, Beretta, Daytona, Avenger, DSM (Laser/Eclipse/Talon), Celica, Prelude, CRX, Integra, NX...

[12,000 RPM]

...............all made irrelevant once it became clear an extra pair of doors did not blunt performance. The 06 GTI and Civic Si really opened the floodgates. There is good reason all those cars are gone.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

...............all made irrelevant once it became clear an extra pair of doors did not blunt performance. The 06 GTI and Civic Si really opened the floodgates. There is good reason all those cars are gone.

I think the SUV craze of the mid 90s killed them waaaay before those two were even introduced.

[2o6]

People my age used to want a cute Probe or Prelude or something.



Now people my age want an HR-V.



I feel like the debt crisis made this worse; if people are financing cars and paying high payments AND student loan payments, their car has to be more utilitarian than a two-door small coupe. An HR-V isn't very fun, but it's reasonable on gas, and seats real people at a manageable price.


Like a basic MX-3 was $16,995 in 1993. Inflation says that car would have been 27K now. 27K is a lot of car.

[giant_mtb]

People my age used to want a cute Probe or Prelude or something.

The first guy says, 'Well I''m an astronaut, so I drive a Saturn.' And the second guy says, 'Well I am a pimp so I drive a cheap Escort.' And the third guy says, 'I got you both beat. I'm a proctologist, so I drive a brown Probe.'

[MX793]

...............all made irrelevant once it became clear an extra pair of doors did not blunt performance. The 06 GTI and Civic Si really opened the floodgates. There is good reason all those cars are gone.

Last I checked, everyone's jumping onto the tall wagon cute-ute train, which certainly do not offer the same kind of driving experience as a lower-slung coupe or even sedan.

And sporty/performance-oriented cars weren't a suddenly new thing that replaced the 2-door sport compacts.  You could get the GTI with rear doors dating back to the MkIII ('91).  4-door Integras were available from the get-go ('85, '89 in the US).  If having a set of rear doors and the same performance was so desirable, why were there vastly more 2-door Tegs and GTIs sold than their 4-door variants?  In fact, Honda would eventually drop the 4-door Teg when the gen 4 (renamed to RSX) came out because it was unpopular.

[MX793]

Like a basic MX-3 was $16,995 in 1993. Inflation says that car would have been 27K now. 27K is a lot of car.

Not quite.  The basic model was like $12K in '93.  The GS, which got you the V6, started at $15K.  $12K in '93 would be just under $21K today.  Nissan NX had nearly identical pricing.

Some further perspective, a 4-banger Mustang in '93 started at just under $11K (note this was the last year of the very old Fox body, the SN95 saw a ~$3500 price jump in '94 to $14K and change for a base model).  A base V6 Camaro (1st year of the 4th gen) was just under $14K.  A Civic LX was just over $12K and the EX was $15.5K.  A base Corolla was $11.5K and a top of the line LE started at $15.5K.  A mid-level Sentra was $11.5K with the top of the line starting at $14.5K.  So, dollar-wise, something like an MX-3 or Nissan NX was priced very closely with the economy cars on which they shared platforms.

[CALL_911]

Last I checked, everyone's jumping onto the tall wagon cute-ute train, which certainly do not offer the same kind of driving experience as a lower-slung coupe or even sedan.

And sporty/performance-oriented cars weren't a suddenly new thing that replaced the 2-door sport compacts.  You could get the GTI with rear doors dating back to the MkIII ('91).  4-door Integras were available from the get-go ('85, '89 in the US).  If having a set of rear doors and the same performance was so desirable, why were there vastly more 2-door Tegs and GTIs sold than their 4-door variants?  In fact, Honda would eventually drop the 4-door Teg when the gen 4 (renamed to RSX) came out because it was unpopular.

Won't lie I didn't read the rest of your post, but I always considered the TSX a successor to the 4 door Integra