New RDX! New RDX! New RDX!

Started by 12,000 RPM, January 15, 2018, 10:27:14 AM

12,000 RPM

Lol what a strange trigger for MCM

Note how both are comparos against the E90... the current F30 has not been a comparo winner either, which begs the question of why he chose that metric. Dynamically the typical F30, with no sport package, is no better than the Accord the TLX is based on, let alone the TLX. Value wise, not even going to get into it... a fully loaded 6 cylinder TLX costs about as much as a lightly optioned 330i. And comparos don't matter anymore, its not the 90s. Cadillac built comparo winners and their sales tanked :lol:

I'm sure MCM would not have brought up sedan comparo tests if this thread were about BMW's new X2 crossover but nobody cares about that. $ for $ that's just a complete waste of money :lol:

Don't do this man, it's a new year, please don't let me lay out BMW's failings in great detail... I know you cannot deal
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

r0tor

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

12,000 RPM

We are talking about a crossover and he brings up sport sedans :huh:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

r0tor

...With regards to the dubious benefit of SH-AWD...
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: r0tor on January 18, 2018, 09:10:52 AM
...With regards to the dubious benefit of SH-AWD...

Exactly. But then again in this case I take back my words. SH-AWD, independently of it's handling and fun to drive characteristics, will surely be a life saver for Sporty what with his cars trying to kill him with power oversteer in daily driving.

I think it is a great choice.
Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
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'18 M3 CS
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'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

12,000 RPM

What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Laconian

Now who's triggered? Simmer down now.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

giant_mtb

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?

Subtle. lol

Submariner

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?

How do we know that the RDX will be such a home run?

Remember when the media was loosing it's mind over the 300 HP the RL's V6 made?  Remember when SH-AWD was the next revolution in automotive technology?

Fast forward ten years.  Who the hell remembers the RL?  Who sing's its virtues?  Who cares that it existed?  No one.
2010 G-550  //  2019 GLS-550

r0tor

I'd be absolutely shocked if the RDX would be dynamically better than the X3.  The latest implementation of X-Drive is a better solution... Maybe actually the best solution in a handling dynamic perspective
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

CALL_911

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?

In your profile:
"Its not that serious"


2004 S2000
2016 340xi

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 18, 2018, 11:16:22 AM
What kind of bitch made shit is this. Last time we clashed about luxury you cried foul because I accurately spoke to your badge insecurities. Since then I fell back. So what is this about? I don't think you are emotionally capable of discussing how this RDX will be better than a 4 banger X3 in pretty much every way, nor are you capable of discussing how big of a slide the 3 series made with the F30 generation. Or how you hype up BMW's mediocre product because its badge affords you instant status with people you shouldn't be looking for admiration from in the first place. So why are you doing this?

I am making fun of your SH-AWD! opening post. This is the Internet. Where discussion and trolling happens.

You troll about my BMW fanboism. I troll back about some of your hard-ons for other brands.From where I am at you contradict yourself a lot.

This is in fun. You got angry. I'll stop. Chill.
Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Submariner on January 18, 2018, 12:18:09 PM
How do we know that the RDX will be such a home run?

Remember when the media was loosing it's mind over the 300 HP the RL's V6 made?  Remember when SH-AWD was the next revolution in automotive technology?

Fast forward ten years.  Who the hell remembers the RL?  Who sing's its virtues?  Who cares that it existed?  No one.
I was just speaking to what about it is exciting for me. I don't recall saying anything about its market performance. We know how much brand matters in this segment
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

2o6

It wouldn't get me out of my Xc40

Xer0

Quote from: 2o6 on January 18, 2018, 02:54:56 PM
It wouldn't get me out of my Xc40

I imagine the CDX or whatever they name the Acura HRV will be the XC40 competitor.  This is closer to the XC60.

565

#45
I'm a big fan of SH-AWD.  My folks have an 07 MDX that I've driven around a lot (borrow it whenever I need to carry a lot of stuff or people).  The dash has a nice graphic meter that shows how much power is going to each wheel, so you can have some idea of how the system works.

When you start, the system starts at roughly 25% to each wheel.  As speeds increase, gradually the system goes to nearly completely FWD.  If you hammer the throttle, more power is shifted rearwards.  The system is anticipatory rather than reactionary, so power starts shifting before any tire spin happens.

Interestingly the system must be keeping some track of loads on each tire, because if you start on a big hill, the system will actually start putting more power to the rear wheels than the fronts.  Start on a really steep hill and really give it a lot of gas, and it looks like the system is operating like a rear wheel drive car.

When you go into a corner under power, things get really interesting.  I think what people don't realize is how aggressive this system is in sending power to the outside wheel.  If you nail the throttle in any decent corner, ALL of the power is going to the outside wheel based on the gauge.  The rear inside wheel basically gets nothing.

The feeling from behind the wheel is quite unique.  I'm currently daily driving a G37xS which has Nissan's ATTESSA system.    The ATTESSA system drives very similar to a rear wheel drive car, since the system is mostly rear wheel drive most of the time, and can send some power to the fronts when things get slippery.  Honestly I don't feel it driving much different from a rear wheel drive car (like the Z06), unless conditions are slippery and the system moves some power to the front.  Even then I feel like the ATTESSA system doesn't move that much power forwards to really change the general feeling of the G37x being a rear wheel drive vehicle.  I wish the G37xS had a similar meter to show me what the system is doing with power.

The SH-AWD feels entirely different from the ATTESSA system.  When you hammer it on dry pavement, even without any wheel spin, you can feel something is different as the system is working.  As you put on more power, you can feel a force rotating or moving the car towards the apex of the corner.  It feels entirely different from a rear wheel drive car on the verge of oversteer, and goes beyond simply correcting for the natural understeer of a front wheel drive car. I imagine it will feel disconcerting to some, but once you get used to it, it's actually quite addictive. 

Basically every time I borrow the MDX, I end up hammering it way too hard around corners.  I would definitely consider an Acura with a twin turbo V6 and SH-AWD.



EDIT:  After I wrote that I looked up some stuff on Youtube.  Apparently SH-AWD can send up to 90% of power to the rear wheels (in the older systems, less than that in the newer systems), and indeed up to 100% of that sent to just to 1 rear wheel.  This is in line with what I've seen from the gauges.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz9ol5zy5nk.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuUaqFnsb2M



GoCougs

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 17, 2018, 05:47:46 PM
Ranked dead last in both C&D and R&T Comparos.

https://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2009-infiniti-g37-vs-bmw-328i-audi-a4-and-acura-tl-comparison-test
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-comparison-tests/reviews/a15592/four-door-firepower/

But I am sure it's great. Even more so if it's based on a CR-V. Can't contain my excitement for it. OMG.

And so how often does BMW win these things these days, even against something so as a Camaro?

TLX w/SH-AWD + say a ~350-375 hp TTV6 is mega, if Honda manages to get the slushie AT right (TBD).

Laconian

Torque plus AT plus Honda equals :(
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Raza

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: GoCougs on January 19, 2018, 12:21:33 AM
And so how often does BMW win these things these days, even against something so as a Camaro?

TLX w/SH-AWD + say a ~350-375 hp TTV6 is mega, if Honda manages to get the slushie AT right (TBD).

BMW basically never wins comparos anymore in US magazines. Still wins a lot in Euro mags however.

Funnily enough the only recent wins in C&D are for crossovers:

https://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2016-audi-q3-quattro-vs-2016-bmw-x1-xdrive28i-2017-infiniti-qx30-awd-2016-lexus-nx200t-f-sport-awd-2016-mercedes-benz-gla250-4matic-comparison-test

The new X3 has been getting good reviews but not a lot of comparos out yet as far as I know.

I have no idea if it will or will not be "better" than this RDX. I just think the whole "super-handling all wheel drive" hype, starting with the name, has been and continues to be ridiculous. It is an ok AWD system. "Super handling" lol.
Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)


Laconian

That's pretty impressive. The Acura was scratching its head for a while...
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CaminoRacer

A locker doesn't scratch its head.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

MexicoCityM3

Founder, BMW Car Club de México
http://bmwclub.org.mx
'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

r0tor

SH-AWD is definitely above average.  There are competitors now though who can do the same.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Laconian

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 19, 2018, 11:31:16 AM
"Super handling" lol.

"Super handling" is a very Japanese superlative. Don't take it so seriously.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

Soup DeVille

Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 19, 2018, 12:07:56 PM
A locker doesn't scratch its head.

Lockers also like to go in straight lines regardless of where you want to go.

Given the choice, on an off-road rig, I'd choose them too; but for the kind of messes most people get in, these electronic versions work, and the drivers don't have to think about it.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

r0tor

It's sort of insanity though so much time an money is spent trying to replicate the basic functionality of fairly cheap old school tech.

A basic center diff + rear lsd is probably better then 70% of the crap awd systems on the market today
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

So the chief engineer states they have a next gen SH-AWD that can now send 40% more power to the rear than before (around 4:30).

So if they were claiming to send 90% to the rear before - WTF  :confused:

https://youtu.be/_vqhDVkAEjk
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

565

Quote from: r0tor on January 19, 2018, 07:59:55 PM
So the chief engineer states they have a next gen SH-AWD that can now send 40% more power to the rear than before (around 4:30).

So if they were claiming to send 90% to the rear before - WTF  :confused:

https://youtu.be/_vqhDVkAEjk

The video explains it. The older SH AWD system in the RL had an accelerator device that will drive the rear wheels up to 5.7% faster than the fronts allowing more rear transfer than the newer SH AWD systems.