If true, BMW has fully lost the plot

[r0tor]

There is a huge difference between keeping a manual option for an enthusiast and keeping a manual option as some way to advertise a super low new car price on a model you will probably never even find on the dealer lot...

I believe most of sportys list is the latter

[giant_mtb]

That's probably part of it.  Advertising a low starting price is one way to rope people in.

[12,000 RPM]

There is a huge difference between keeping a manual option for an enthusiast and keeping a manual option as some way to advertise a super low new car price on a model you will probably never even find on the dealer lot...

I believe most of sportys list is the latter

Manuals are lot cancer for cheapo cars. The incremental visits are not worth keeping a stick Kia Rio on the lot for 6 years

Most of my list is enthusiast focused

[2o6]

Not all manuals are lot liabilities, even in cheap cars

[68_427]

Do I count if my manual car is broken? 

[Xer0]

No.  My manual still works and I don't even count 

[12,000 RPM]

Dude, you even acknowledge that your list has a ton of duds on it—you put the Mitsubishi Mirage on it!

That was the only dud. C&D gave the stickshift Accent a pretty positive review:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-hyundai-accent-manual-test-review

And I didn't say that any of those cars don't count because they're Japanese. I did consider saying that, because Japanese cars generally drive like sardine tins and terrible ergonomics, but I wanted to keep it serious. I even acknowledged that the Accord is a very good example of the type of car I was taking about.

The only cars on my list that are bad to drive are the Nissans and the Mirage.

And no one said anything about "worth as a person". That sounds like a chip on the shoulder you've got there buddy. So much for your "take it easy, man, you can always get a Nissan Versa if you want a fun car with a manual" attitude.

Nobody has to; its obvious by how much you agonize over it. "The X1 is a perfect complement to my Z4, but I will be physically ill if I have to drive an automatic"

Seriously though, you have an odd relationship with image. You need to accept that it matters to you. You just said in another thread how much you like looking at your car. You'd never say that if you drove the new Civic.

Well, your context for what defines a healthy relationship with image is strange. The European only cars, the watches, declaring people who drive minivans have "given up on life" (I know, you were "just joking").... I definitely care about my image; I've never claimed otherwise. The difference between me and you is that you seem to assign a large piece of one's character to stupid shit like what car they drive. Most people (rightfully) care about more important things.

[AutobahnSHO]

"jalopnik specials" 

[giant_mtb]

I don't think enjoying looking at one's vehicle is necessarily a statement of image. Image would be telling other people to look at your car.  As a car forum, we should all be able to appreciate that, which is why we post pictures of vehicles we like here.

[AutobahnSHO]

Nah, everyone who buys a car thinks "what will people think if they see me in this?"

Some people don't care, some people think about it more. Others obsess. But it's always at least a little factor.

[12,000 RPM]

I don't disagree there, the douchebag college student image of the Z was part of why I sold it. Everyone else I saw in it made me wince. But I think Raza dry heaves and gets light headed at the thought of DDing something like a BRZ. "If only it had the prestige of a VW "

But yea, me liking how my car looks <> me caring about how it looks to others, even though I do.

[SJ_GTI]

Nah, everyone who buys a car thinks "what will people think if they see me in this?"

Some people don't care, some people think about it more. Others obsess. But it's always at least a little factor.

I mean, I wasn't actually thinking about it when I bought the car, but I kind of like the lower key image projection of my Golf vs the S4 I had before it. And yes I know its a Golf R but other than the larger wheels/tires it pretty much looks like your basic VW Golf.

[giant_mtb]

Nah, everyone who buys a car thinks "what will people think if they see me in this?"

Some people don't care, some people think about it more. Others obsess. But it's always at least a little factor.

I don't think you're totally off.  I mean, everybody projects a certain image of themselves in everything they do.  It's what makes you, you.  But yeah, I think across the board, people care either more or they care less.  At the end of the day, though, you're doing it wrong if you bought a vehicle for image over your own satisfaction or enjoyment of it.

[MexicoCityM3]

I´m getting a CR-V because I care what the spin thinks.

[MX793]

What on Google Earth are you on about m8

Of course enthusiasts still enjoy driving. The aftermarket for driving enhancing parts is booming. Track days are popular. Events like Grid Life  and Cars & Coffee keep growing. And as far as cars go, just from memory here are all the cars available with manuals (asterisk for manual ONLY):

Cars & Coffee caters to people who enjoy driving?  Everyone one I've ever seen involves a bunch of people milling around parked cars.  Then somebody in a Mustang attempting a burnout and ramming into pedestrians or other cars.

Our SCCA club used to recruit heavily at local C&Cs and similar car enthusiast gatherings (there's a big import tuner show/meet every summer as well and we set up a booth there), handing out flyers and discount vouchers (including free weekend memberships) to get people to go to local AutoXes.  I can count on 1 hand the number of people from said gatherings have actually shown up over the past few years.

[12,000 RPM]

Enjoying driving <> doing autocross. I enjoy driving, even competitively, and I don't want to do autocross. Maybe driving was too specific. There are still people who enjoy cars, including using a 3rd pedal. Car culture shit like C&C etc. won't work with autonomous cars. Hell, look at all the time we waste here talking about cars. And this forum isn't even active. I'm on TCL now and it feels like the early aughts with the car talk. People still care.

[12,000 RPM]

An auto AWD only 6 banger 3er. Come on guys

I have some theories.

1, Euro6 emissions regs  are really putting the pressure on European manufacturers. All the Euro manufacturers have moved away from stickshift on their performance offerings. To a degree, so have the JApanese. But Chevy/Ford/Dodge still offer stick on pretty much everything fun (sometimes only)

2, crumbling roads and increasing traffic have sapped the fun out of driving for a lot of people. If my commute was shit and I lived up where the roads were trash I would probably get a crossover too. A sporty fun car is no more fun than anything else stuck in traffic. Actually, when I drove my Z up to NYC I winced in horror as it clomped, rattled and squeaked over the shit roads. We don't have that shit down here. I'm actually thinking of going stiffer with the coils on the G

3, student debt?

4, overall trends are changing. There is a FOG at my job who used to have a stickshift Boxster. He drove like a total grandma. Any time I saw him he was under the speed limit. He recently replaced it.... any guesses? (Raza you can breathe easy, it is German )

[giant_mtb]

Not everybody goes through brake pads every 10k miles, sporty.

[Laconian]

4, overall trends are changing. There is a FOG at my job who used to have a stickshift Boxster. He drove like a total grandma. Any time I saw him he was under the speed limit. He recently replaced it.... any guesses? (Raza you can breathe easy, it is German )

Audi Q5?

[MX793]

Enjoying driving <> doing autocross. I enjoy driving, even competitively, and I don't want to do autocross. Maybe driving was too specific. There are still people who enjoy cars, including using a 3rd pedal. Car culture shit like C&C etc. won't work with autonomous cars. Hell, look at all the time we waste here talking about cars. And this forum isn't even active. I'm on TCL now and it feels like the early aughts with the car talk. People still care.

Driving enthusiasts drive.  Parking enthusiasts go to Cars and Coffee  .

[Laconian]

Dick measuring enthusiasts go to C&C.

[565]

Hmmm 380hp in the new 340.  I wonder if this is the engine that's going to be the top spec in the new Z4 and Toyota Supra,  I hope it is.

Nissan needs to drop the 30VRDETT from the Q50 400RS into the next Z car.

Then we will have a new 300zx twin turbo vs an inline 6 turbocharged Supra Turbo.  It's like 1993 all over again... sorta.

[MexicoCityM3]

Hmmm 380hp in the new 340.  I wonder if this is the engine that's going to be the top spec in the new Z4 and Toyota Supra,  I hope it is.

All info available points to that. Let's see if BMW drops an LSD in the Z4 at least in the top spec.

[12,000 RPM]

Nissan is going to have to knock the next Z out of the park. Like the rebirth of the Z32. Or it's gonna fail. VR30DETT and all

[GoCougs]

Hmmm 380hp in the new 340.  I wonder if this is the engine that's going to be the top spec in the new Z4 and Toyota Supra,  I hope it is.

Nissan needs to drop the 30VRDETT from the Q50 400RS into the next Z car.

Then we will have a new 300zx twin turbo vs an inline 6 turbocharged Supra Turbo.  It's like 1993 all over again... sorta.

Nissan's new TTV6's worth is TBD. It's not a hot vee so lag is noticeable. It also doesn't sound great and under performs WRT its numbers (though that might be due to the awful 7sp slushie AT).

[12,000 RPM]

Yea the JATCO box is awful. Same company that makes their self-destructing CVTs. Ghosn is a cheap bastard so no ZF for us

[CaminoRacer]

Cars & Coffee caters to people who enjoy driving?  Everyone one I've ever seen involves a bunch of people milling around parked cars.  Then somebody in a Mustang attempting a burnout and ramming into pedestrians or other cars.

Our SCCA club used to recruit heavily at local C&Cs and similar car enthusiast gatherings (there's a big import tuner show/meet every summer as well and we set up a booth there), handing out flyers and discount vouchers (including free weekend memberships) to get people to go to local AutoXes.  I can count on 1 hand the number of people from said gatherings have actually shown up over the past few years.

I wish I could enjoy C&C, but I just can't. Even talking to auto-x people is more enjoyable, not even counting the driving

[12,000 RPM]

I would like to go soon. Onslaught, Rich, Tave, we should meet up. Maybe kart after and have copious beer and burgers.

[Rich]

I'm in Qatar Until August. Come over and let's go karting

[AutobahnSHO]

I’m in Qatar Until August. Come over and let’s go karting

  No thanks. that country was weird.