New Focus

Started by 12,000 RPM, April 10, 2018, 05:51:33 AM

2o6


Payman

That right there is the biggest improvement.  :golfclap:

12,000 RPM

It kind of looks Chinese :lol: From the grille back it could be anything

Really want to know what's happening with the ST.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

r0tor

Quote from: Rockraven on April 10, 2018, 10:19:43 AM
Make sure you get it done before the warranty is up. Got mine done a few months ago... new clutch, TCM and re-map. My '13 drives better than new.

Ours has been replaced 2x now and my in laws have one and they are on clutch pack #4 I believe.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

r0tor

So that's the sedan and not a Chinese clone?  Good grief...
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

MX793

Quote from: shp4man on April 10, 2018, 10:11:06 AM
To quote President Bush, I think you may be "misunderestimating" the effect cheap defective Chinese products have had on American's perception of quality. But then again, common sense isn't as widespread as it once was.
You are no doubt familiar with the Chinese tendency to cut corners on supplied items to make Yankee dollars.

Shoddy, "American Made" products in the 70s and 80s and early 90s already warmed us up.

Given equal levels of design competency and quality control, there is no reason a product manufactured in China can't be every bit as good as one manufactured elsewhere.  At least when we're talking about products using traditional manufacturing processes (forming, machining, molding, casting) that Chinese industry is familiar with.  Most of the "crap" from China is not just poorly made, but is often poorly designed and if not that, there is poor QC in place that fails to prevent lower quality product from going out the door (or their tolerances for what is deemed "acceptable" are more lax).  Lax QC standards aren't just limited to the Chinese.  I've heard some stories from folks who worked in the automotive supply chain (drivetrain and transmission components were produced locally up until a few years ago) that Chrysler was far and away more willing to accept and use parts that were defective or not compliant to drawing as compared with GM or Ford.  Not at all surprising considering the difference in quality ratings between Chrysler and the Big 2.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Xer0

Quote from: 68_427 on April 10, 2018, 10:25:18 AM
Yes it's just an appearance package and maybe a couple other things VW r line, Chevy rs, Audi s line etc.

The full ST model is completely different

Thats good, I hope Ford keeps the ST line going and with the new Edge ST joining, sounds like they really want to expand it.

shp4man

Quote from: MX793 on April 10, 2018, 02:45:58 PM
Shoddy, "American Made" products in the 70s and 80s and early 90s already warmed us up.

Given equal levels of design competency and quality control, there is no reason a product manufactured in China can't be every bit as good as one manufactured elsewhere.  At least when we're talking about products using traditional manufacturing processes (forming, machining, molding, casting) that Chinese industry is familiar with.  Most of the "crap" from China is not just poorly made, but is often poorly designed and if not that, there is poor QC in place that fails to prevent lower quality product from going out the door (or their tolerances for what is deemed "acceptable" are more lax).  Lax QC standards aren't just limited to the Chinese.  I've heard some stories from folks who worked in the automotive supply chain (drivetrain and transmission components were produced locally up until a few years ago) that Chrysler was far and away more willing to accept and use parts that were defective or not compliant to drawing as compared with GM or Ford.  Not at all surprising considering the difference in quality ratings between Chrysler and the Big 2.

Sometimes, providing specifications on manufacturing to the Chinese just gets swept under the table. Example: The Chinese made flooring tiles with cancer causing flame retardant, and many more examples. They just don't care- they likely take great pleasure in taking advantage of Yankee greed.

Payman

Quote from: shp4man on April 10, 2018, 03:59:27 PM
Sometimes, providing specifications on manufacturing to the Chinese just gets swept under the table. Example: The Chinese made flooring tiles with cancer causing flame retardant, and many more examples. They just don't care- they likely take great pleasure in taking advantage of Yankee greed.


You know what prevents that? Hint... begins with an R, rhymes with vegulations.

Laconian

Quote from: Rockraven on April 10, 2018, 04:22:59 PM
You know what prevents that? Hint... begins with an R, rhymes with vegulations.

There's always money to be made in the race to the bottom.

Don't deprive rich people of the chance to get more money!
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

93JC

Quote from: shp4man on April 10, 2018, 09:23:20 AM
The Focus has in effect been relegated to the same pariah/orphan child status as the Villager van, Probe, Aspire and XR4TI. Ford is just a resale agency.

That's just silly. This is one of their core products.

FYI:

- the Villager was designed in cooperation with Nissan, used a Ford-designed chassis and was made in a Ford plant in Ohio
- the Probe was designed in cooperation with Mazda, used a Ford-designed body and interior, used a Ford V6 in the first generation, and was built in a Ford-Mazda factory in Michigan
- the XR4Ti was a rebadged Ford Sierra from Europe; it was a Ford through and through

MX793

Quote from: shp4man on April 10, 2018, 03:59:27 PM
Sometimes, providing specifications on manufacturing to the Chinese just gets swept under the table. Example: The Chinese made flooring tiles with cancer causing flame retardant, and many more examples. They just don't care- they likely take great pleasure in taking advantage of Yankee greed.


So did you miss the part of my post when I said "given equal levels of design competency and quality control"?  Lack of QC oversight allows for the substitution of materials.  I've seen American companies with shit QC turn out garbage every bit as bad as what you stereotype the Chinese as making.  I'm in the midst of having to spec a new fuel sender and gauge for one of our products because the AMERICAN MADE product that was originally specified, supposedly built to a military standard, had a defective product rate of at least 10%.  Senders not putting out the correct resistance, resulting in gauges reading and 1/8th tank or more when empty.  Gauges that simply didn't work right out of the box.  We sent back 5 pieces that we still had in stock that we identified as faulty and every one had a different thing wrong with it, but all of it could be traced to piss poor QC.  Issues ranging from assemblers not tightening things right (too loose or too tight), inspectors/testers not checking parts or letting out-of-spec stuff out the door, and poor quality solder joints on wires.  Company who sold them to us was like "meh, sometimes that sort of stuff happens".  Showed zero interest in tightening their QC.  This isn't high tech stuff that's hard to make right.  Simple float-arm-type fuel sender with a rheostat, the same sort of thing you can find in a pre-WWII automobile.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

shp4man

Quote from: MX793 on April 10, 2018, 09:31:56 PM
So did you miss the part of my post when I said "given equal levels of design competency and quality control"?  Lack of QC oversight allows for the substitution of materials.  I've seen American companies with shit QC turn out garbage every bit as bad as what you stereotype the Chinese as making.  I'm in the midst of having to spec a new fuel sender and gauge for one of our products because the AMERICAN MADE product that was originally specified, supposedly built to a military standard, had a defective product rate of at least 10%.  Senders not putting out the correct resistance, resulting in gauges reading and 1/8th tank or more when empty.  Gauges that simply didn't work right out of the box.  We sent back 5 pieces that we still had in stock that we identified as faulty and every one had a different thing wrong with it, but all of it could be traced to piss poor QC.  Issues ranging from assemblers not tightening things right (too loose or too tight), inspectors/testers not checking parts or letting out-of-spec stuff out the door, and poor quality solder joints on wires.  Company who sold them to us was like "meh, sometimes that sort of stuff happens".  Showed zero interest in tightening their QC.  This isn't high tech stuff that's hard to make right.  Simple float-arm-type fuel sender with a rheostat, the same sort of thing you can find in a pre-WWII automobile.
Ya, I'm sure there are American suppliers that suck ass. BUT...
Ford at one point decided to offshore fuel pump/sender manufacturing to Thailand. Huge mistake, super high failure rate, really bad customer satisfaction rating. They ended up recalling all those shitty Thai fuel pumps. We had to install them for chump change.
See why I hate Chinese/offshore crap? It affects me personally.
Not saying anything about the average Ford owners that think Fords are US made, and blame it on union workers probably. Ford isn't telling them the garbage is made offshore, and won't.
This new Focus will be, for the first year at least, a total pile of shit. Watch it happen.

MX793

Where were the pump/sender units manufactured before and where are they made now?  Was the defect that prompted the recall a design defect or a build defect?
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

12,000 RPM

Quote from: shp4man on April 10, 2018, 11:00:04 PM
Ya, I'm sure there are American suppliers that suck ass. BUT...
They're not CHINEEEESE.

Quote from: shp4man on April 10, 2018, 11:00:04 PMSee why I hate Chinese/offshore crap? It affects me personally.
And cheaply made American crap doesn't? :confused:

In your mind, American stuff = all good, foreign stuff = all bad. Just not the case, as literally decades of American CRAP, which enabled foreigners to not only gain marketshare but set up manufacturing plants IN AMERICA have demonstrated.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

shp4man

Quote from: MX793 on April 11, 2018, 05:01:20 AM
Where were the pump/sender units manufactured before and where are they made now?  Was the defect that prompted the recall a design defect or a build defect?

Most of them were US made, previous to the Thai experiment. I don't know why they failed, but they shut down that factory. Fuel modules, as Ford calls them are from usually Mexico or USA now.
I've read they're fairly labor intensive to make.

shp4man

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 11, 2018, 05:58:28 AM
They're not CHINEEEESE.
And cheaply made American crap doesn't? :confused:

In your mind, American stuff = all good, foreign stuff = all bad. Just not the case, as literally decades of American CRAP, which enabled foreigners to not only gain marketshare but set up manufacturing plants IN AMERICA have demonstrated.

You're stuck in the 1990's.

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: shp4man on April 11, 2018, 07:43:23 AM
You're stuck in the 1990's.

LOL You're stuck in the 1950s.
Will

12,000 RPM

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 11, 2018, 08:02:25 AM
LOL You're stuck in the 1950s.
I LITERALLY was going to type this.

Also not sure what's changed since the 90s. Is the best selling car not a Toyota Camry? Did the Japanese/Koreans/Germans abandon their American manufacturing facilities?
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

shp4man

The world is changing gentlemen. There is a new industrial paradigm. It's 2018, all the rules you learned are changing.

giant_mtb

Quote from: shp4man on April 11, 2018, 10:42:58 AM
The world is changing gentlemen. There is a new industrial paradigm. It's 2018, all the rules you learned are changing.


Rich

2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

shp4man


12,000 RPM

Quote from: shp4man on April 11, 2018, 10:42:58 AM
The world is changing gentlemen. There is a new industrial paradigm. It's 2018, all the rules you learned are changing.
Yes and that means Americans buying Chinese made Fords without batting an eye
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

shp4man

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 11, 2018, 11:26:16 AM
Yes and that means Americans buying Chinese made Fords without batting an eye

Some will, no doubt. Only later will they realize the error of their ways.  :lol:

giant_mtb

Quote from: shp4man on April 11, 2018, 11:33:11 AM
Some will, no doubt. Only later will they realize the error of their ways.  :lol:

You're adorable.

shp4man

Quote from: giant_mtb on April 11, 2018, 11:44:02 AM
You're adorable.

Thanks, buddy! Just like a Teddy Bear.  :praise:

2o6

Do you really think that 1B people are so single minded and have such a lack of care, that everything they make is ass?

shp4man

Quote from: 2o6 on April 11, 2018, 12:14:12 PM
Do you really think that 1B people are so single minded and have such a lack of care, that everything they make is ass?

Of course not. They have a different government and a lot less incentive for their factory workers than a capitalist country.
They are capable of producing decent products, for sure.

MX793

Quote from: shp4man on April 11, 2018, 01:00:20 PM
Of course not. They have a different government and a lot less incentive for their factory workers than a capitalist country.
They are capable of producing decent products, for sure.

Yup, still living decades in the past. 

China isn't really communist anymore.  They've been moving away from communism since the late 70s.  Outside of some key industries like energy, most business ventures are privately owned.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5