So I'm thinking about dumping the Subaru (2011 Outback 2.5 140k-ish miles I think, I'll check). I've always thought about it but it's getting up their milage wise. It hasn't been that reliable and seems to be a money pit & from what I've read it's just going to get worse. It's good in the ice, but not so much in the snow and the roads here a lot of times aren't plowed well. It just doesn't have the clearance and I've noticed a big difference between it and the GX I had before. I used to be able to just plow through piles of snow but can't really do it now. It also tends to 'high center' which is a pain in the ass. The gas milage is bad which is fine if it's quick but it's slower than shit. It's also loud and doesn't have the smoothest ride. My good friend/neighbor has a newer 4 runner and he loves it. I've focused on that as the replacement and seems to be a good fit.
Any thoughts on it?
Get another GX.
Quote from: BENZ BOY15 on May 31, 2020, 10:18:21 PM
So I'm thinking about dumping the Subaru (2011 Outback 2.5 140k-ish miles I think, I'll check). I've always thought about it but it's getting up their milage wise. It hasn't been that reliable and seems to be a money pit & from what I've read it's just going to get worse. It's good in the ice, but not so much in the snow and the roads here a lot of times aren't plowed well. It just doesn't have the clearance and I've noticed a big difference between it and the GX I had before. I used to be able to just plow through piles of snow but can't really do it now. It also tends to 'high center' which is a pain in the ass. The gas milage is bad which is fine if it's quick but it's slower than shit. It's also loud and doesn't have the smoothest ride. My good friend/neighbor has a newer 4 runner and he loves it. I've focused on that as the replacement and seems to be a good fit.
Any thoughts on it?
The Outback actually has really good ground clearance (8.7"). It's better than your GX's (8.1"), and Outbacks are renown for their capability in the snow. Perhaps the difference you're noticing is from the tire quality? What kind of tires do you have on the Outback?
You should get a turbo engine given your altitude. Outback XT. Yee.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 31, 2020, 10:45:56 PM
Nah he needs a G Wagon
Am I the only person who thinks they're ugly?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on May 31, 2020, 10:40:23 PM
Get another GX.
I've thought about that too....it's an amazing vehicle. I loved it.
They're sorta tough to find though.
Get a 2nd generation Escape. They never break. Cheap too.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 05:58:08 AM
Get a 2nd generation Escape. They never break. Cheap too.
4Runners never break, either, and don't suffer from terribly cheap interior syndrome...he is a realtor, after all.
Quote from: Laconian on May 31, 2020, 10:54:59 PM
The Outback actually has really good ground clearance (8.7"). It's better than your GX's (8.1"), and Outbacks are renown for their capability in the snow. Perhaps the difference you're noticing is from the tire quality? What kind of tires do you have on the Outback?
You should get a turbo engine given your altitude. Outback XT. Yee.
There's "ground clearance on paper" and "practical ground clearance." The GX almost certainly has better real world ground clearance.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 01, 2020, 06:20:16 AM
4Runners never break, either, and don't suffer from terribly cheap interior syndrome...he is a realtor, after all.
Different category besides, they sometimes catch on fire. :lol:
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 07:53:39 AM
Different category besides, they sometimes catch on fire. :lol:
No, those are Land Cruisers (the GX is a Land Cruiser Prado in other markets, what my fireball was was a Land Cruiser Amazon)
If you're running into snow mobility issues in an Outback, presumably with decent AWD tires, and you sometimes need/want to drive through unplowed roads, my feeling is you need something like a 4Runner or Jeep Grand Cherokee. 4Runner will likely be more reliable but a Grand Cherokee will maybe get you a newer less mileage example for the same price. A Toyota FJ Cruiser would also do the trick but I don't know how it's on road ride is. I think it's better than older model Jeep Wranglers.
Not sure if a Honda Pilot would fit your needs. If the Outback is giving you snow trouble, an AWD Pilot might be better but I'm not sure about that.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 01, 2020, 08:01:38 AM
No, those are Land Cruisers (the GX is a Land Cruiser Prado in other markets, what my fireball was was a Land Cruiser Amazon)
Is the Prado a CUV or SUV?
My suggestion was just a reliable but cheap alternative. Tons of them still on the road.
A Nissan Armada is going to be cheaper than a Tahoe/Yukon and will go through anything a GX would have. Expect 14 mpg though.
If you use fueleconomy.gov, you might find however that the yearly fuel cost of a 4runner vs an Armada may not be that big a difference depending on how many miles you drive a year and price of gas.
The main downside to a 4Runner is it's really overdue for an update. If you're buying used this might not matter.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 08:07:24 AM
Is the Prado a CUV or SUV?
My suggestion was just a reliable but cheap alternative. Tons of them still on the road.
It has a real frame and a real transfer case; I'd call it an SUV. Its just the smaller Land Cruiser in most markets
I'm pretty sure you might be driving clients around sometimes? So FJ would be pretty sketchy.
For real ice on hills nothing beats a real 4wd over AWD. But good tires (even snow tires!) can make AWD pretty good.
Are Foresters shorter wheelbase than Outback? Seem to have as much real seating area. I always loved the 4Runner, neighbor has one she drives into DC for work (LOL). 4door Jeep or Cherokee might be great options for your area.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 01, 2020, 08:59:30 AM
I'm pretty sure you might be driving clients around sometimes? So FJ would be pretty sketchy.
For real ice on hills nothing beats a real 4wd over AWD. But good tires (even snow tires!) can make AWD pretty good.
Are Foresters shorter wheelbase than Outback? Seem to have as much real seating area. I always loved the 4Runner, neighbor has one she drives into DC for work (LOL). 4door Jeep or Cherokee might be great options for your area.
My '01 Escape was AWD and I was able to plow through snow drifts over the front bumper going up hill. This is with the original all season tires, I replaced them with Hankook all seasons after the original wore down, and they were even better. Even in 8" wet snow, it was unstoppable. Being significantly lighter than a non unibody SUV makes a difference in snow.
I can't speak for any other manufacturer/model, but having had the '01 Escape for 15+ years without any issue other than normal wear items, I can strongly recommend it. My wife's '09 Escape, it's just FWD, has had even less wear issues, still original summer tires, with well over 200K kms. My daughter, her fiance, has been driving it for the past 3 1/2 years.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 09:27:23 AM
Being significantly lighter than a non unibody SUV makes a difference in snow.
Uhhhhhh being lighter is worse in snow......momentum. Mass*velocity. Weight adds to traction.
Off roading in the snow on 3' of snow with big tires? Yeah, you want to be light so you can float and not sink. On the road? You want weight for momentum to plow through and to get more tire bite. There's a reason people have been putting sand bags in the trunks of their RWD cars and beds of their trucks for decades.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 01, 2020, 09:46:04 AM
Uhhhhhh being lighter is worse in snow......momentum. Mass*velocity. Weight adds to traction.
Off roading in the snow on 3' of snow with big tires? Yeah, you want to be light so you can float and not sink. On the road? You want weight for momentum to plow through and to get more tire bite. There's a reason people have been putting sand bags in the trunks of their RWD cars and beds of their trucks for decades.
Not if you're stuck. Weight in the back of a RWD pickup helps because of the heavy front end.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 09:51:52 AM
Not if you're stuck. Weight in the back of a RWD pickup helps because of the heavy front end.
Ummm, no. Weight in the back of a pickup helps because of the light rear end. :nutty:
If you are stuck, you want weight so your tires can bite. Especially in that thick wet snow that turns to ice the moment your tires start spinning.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 01, 2020, 09:56:19 AM
Ummm, no. Weight in the back of a pickup helps because of the light rear end. :nutty:
If you are stuck, you want weight so your tires can bite. Especially in that thick wet snow that turns to ice the moment your tires start spinning.
Obviously Escape has some other magic then. Perhaps just good weight distribution.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 01, 2020, 09:58:50 AM
Obviously Escape has some other magic then. Perhaps just good weight distribution.
Ground clearance. Usable ground clearance. I dunno where Subuaru gets their ground clearance numbers, but I'm pretty sure it's right outta their ass.
Quote from: Lebowski on June 01, 2020, 08:14:11 AM
The main downside to a 4Runner is it's really overdue for an update. If you're buying used this might not matter.
Pretty much. They're good vehicles. Benzy, take one for a test drive and see how you like it. They'll get through any snow that your GX could.
Quote from: Lebowski on June 01, 2020, 08:14:11 AM
The main downside to a 4Runner is it's really overdue for an update. If you're buying used this might not matter.
And fuel economy. Especially in the mountains. But, that's going to be any SUV, pretty much.
I'd say check out the Nissan Armada as well. Using fuel economy.gov I got you spending $500 more a year in gas money for a 4Runner over an Outback and $1000 more a year in gas money for an Armada over an Outback. YMMV however :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 01, 2020, 10:07:11 AM
Pretty much. They're good vehicles. Benzy, take one for a test drive and see how you like it. They'll get through any snow that your GX could.
I'm going to try my neighbors out. I don't really care about the needing an update part, I like the current one a lot as it is.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 01, 2020, 10:16:10 AM
And fuel economy. Especially in the mountains. But, that's going to be any SUV, pretty much.
Yeah fuel economy sucks, I don't drive a ton of miles so don't really care (the % of my monthly budget that goes to gasoline is de minimus). But if you have a longish commute it's an issue.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 01, 2020, 08:59:30 AM
I'm pretty sure you might be driving clients around sometimes? So FJ would be pretty sketchy.
For real ice on hills nothing beats a real 4wd over AWD. But good tires (even snow tires!) can make AWD pretty good.
Are Foresters shorter wheelbase than Outback? Seem to have as much real seating area. I always loved the 4Runner, neighbor has one she drives into DC for work (LOL). 4door Jeep or Cherokee might be great options for your area.
Yeah I drive clients around (not right now due to COVID) but I will in the future. I'm not a fan of the way the FJ looks.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 01, 2020, 10:06:26 AM
No
There's this one that drives around town that's military green in color. It's so awful.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 01, 2020, 10:06:02 AM
Ground clearance. Usable ground clearance. I dunno where Subuaru gets their ground clearance numbers, but I'm pretty sure it's right outta their ass.
Yep, you're right. Subaru has been lying about it this whole time :wtf:
Quote from: MrH on June 01, 2020, 12:59:51 PM
Yep, you're right. Subaru has been lying about it this whole time :wtf:
It's definitely higher than a regular car. Doesn't seem that way when you're driving it, but does when you compare it to something else.
Even still, GX>Outback by far in winter conditions.
Aren't most solid axle ground clearance numbers measuring to the bottom of the pumpkin? The rest of the vehicle might have a lot more ground clearance and the bottom of the pumpkin is less of an issue. Whereas Subaru doesn't have solid axles so the ground clearance number is actually measuring to the bottom of the car.
Quote from: BENZ BOY15 on June 01, 2020, 12:40:51 PM
Yeah I drive clients around (not right now due to COVID) but I will in the future. I'm not a fan of the way the FJ looks.
I love them but the first time I peeked in one- I realized the backseat is okay for kids but that and the half-door would make it a hassle for clients. It's just not a real 4-person vehicle.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 01, 2020, 02:05:52 PM
Aren't most solid axle ground clearance numbers measuring to the bottom of the pumpkin? The rest of the vehicle might have a lot more ground clearance and the bottom of the pumpkin is less of an issue. Whereas Subaru doesn't have solid axles so the ground clearance number is actually measuring to the bottom of the car.
I believe that is the case, yes. I did a little Googling and the Outback's ground clearance is measured at a spot on the exhaust, which is the lowest point.
If you want the BEST vehicle for those slippery mountain roads, wait for the new Bronco...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW3sH5YVhn4
Some pretty clever looking electronics at work.