2o6 Driving impressions - flip cars

Started by 2o6, January 16, 2017, 09:08:22 AM

Galaxy


2o6

Lol but you don't agree with anything else?

FoMoJo

Quote from: 2o6 on January 17, 2017, 12:01:02 AM
2004 Cadillac CTS 3.6L



+ I still like this design a lot. It still has held up well, and I think edgier designs are the way to go for luxury cars.

+ The steering is both Cadillac familiar, but still precise.

+ GM really does well with automatic transmissions, this car shifts smoothly and confidently.

+ It's interesting how the 3.6L "HIGH FEATURE" engine changes character depending on what it's in or which variant is used. In the FWD applications, like the Traverse and other LAMBDA crossovers, it feels borderline inappropriate in regards to how late the power/torque comes in the car. In this car, partially because of gearing and weight, the 3.6L feels a lot more free and easier. I prefer it to most BMW I6 cars.

+ The leather has a distinct GM Cadillac smell that channels my childhood.

+ Ride was compliant, but handling was still very good. It rode better than a 3 series, and felt more comfortable than a C-class, without being wafty and insubstantial like a Lexus ES.

+ automatic shifter has great weight and good feel

- Although fit and finish was better than anything GM was making at the time (Step inside an 04 Cavalier or any of the GM N-body cars), material quality was honestly about on the same level as a VW Jetta

- The 2.8L and whatever other engine that isn't the 3.6L is refried garbage

- Some of the interior design choices are stupid (THERE ARE A LOT OF BUTTONS)

- Some of the controls are kind of cryptic (Sunroof control)

- This car held up far worse than practically any other small luxury car of the day, except maybe the X-type. X-types are garbage.
I've always liked Cadillac's "Art and Science" design language, but this is a rather bland representation of it.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

TBR

Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 16, 2017, 07:16:28 PM
I love the 2017 Escape. I want my parents to replace their Mazda6 with one

On our list too.

MrH

Quote from: Laconian on January 16, 2017, 09:53:44 PM
Little...? The Edge is huge!

It is?  :confused:  It's a two row crossover.  Pretty similar to a Rav4/CRV/Escape size :huh:
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

2o6

Quote from: MrH on January 17, 2017, 08:35:19 AM
It is?  :confused:  It's a two row crossover.  Pretty similar to a Rav4/CRV/Escape size :huh:


The Edge is wide as shit. It's basically a short Explorer. Which is not a small car. Edges are huge, bigger than the already too big for the segment Equinox/Terrain.


Quote from: TBR on January 17, 2017, 08:33:03 AM
On our list too.

Look at the Lincoln MKC

TBR

Quote from: 2o6 on January 17, 2017, 08:39:35 AM

The Edge is wide as shit. It's basically a short Explorer. Which is not a small car. Edges are huge, bigger than the already too big for the segment Equinox/Terrain.


Look at the Lincoln MKC

Eric doesn't like body width tail lights. Our list is going to be..eclectic.

FoMoJo

Quote from: 2o6 on January 17, 2017, 08:39:35 AM

The Edge is wide as shit. It's basically a short Explorer. Which is not a small car. Edges are huge, bigger than the already too big for the segment Equinox/Terrain.

Look at the Lincoln MKC
Compact (C1) vs. midside (CD4) platform.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

ifcar

Quote from: MrH on January 17, 2017, 08:35:19 AM
It is?  :confused:  It's a two row crossover.  Pretty similar to a Rav4/CRV/Escape size :huh:

One size bigger, a la Nissan Murano/Subaru Outback/Jeep Grand Cherokee.

12,000 RPM

Yea I like the Edge's class. 3rd rows are vestigial at best
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

MrH

Quote from: ifcar on January 17, 2017, 11:02:50 AM
One size bigger, a la Nissan Murano/Subaru Outback/Jeep Grand Cherokee.

I don't consider any of those "huge" either really. :huh:
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

68_427

I wish we got the 3 row Edge.  Looks better than the Explorer and the styling better matches the rest of the lineup.

Quotewhere were you when automotive dream died
i was sat at home drinking brake fluid when wife ring
'racecar is die'
no


giant_mtb

That's what Edges look like now?  Holy shit.  They weren't exactly good-looking in their Gillette days.  So much gross chrome.




68_427

Quotewhere were you when automotive dream died
i was sat at home drinking brake fluid when wife ring
'racecar is die'
no


Raza

Quote from: 2o6 on January 17, 2017, 12:01:02 AM
2004 Cadillac CTS 3.6L

- Although fit and finish was better than anything GM was making at the time (Step inside an 04 Cavalier or any of the GM N-body cars), material quality was honestly about on the same level as a VW Jetta

Contemporary Jettas had better materials.  My Passat's materials (also a 2004) was head and shoulders above the CTS in the interior; both in materials and fitment. 

Quote
- This car held up far worse than practically any other small luxury car of the day, except maybe the X-type. X-types are garbage.

Aw, really?  I like those.  Manual AWD Jag!
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Raza

Quote from: MrH on January 17, 2017, 11:46:06 AM
I don't consider any of those "huge" either really. :huh:

I feel like Rav4s are pretty big.  Edge is definitely huge.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

2o6

2003 Pontiac Vibe - Purchased Late July 2016, Sold Late September 2016

2004 Pontiac Vibe -  Purchased Mid March 2016, sold Late March 2016


2005 Pontiac Vibe - Purchased Mid June 2015, Sold Late July 2016 (she still has this car and loves it)


(All 1.8L Automatic)


2004



2003



2005




+ Ride is very good for a small car

+ There's actually a lot of space in these, I moved my house in tha 2005 car, and the SUV-like rear hatch window that opens independent from the hatch door. Coupled with the front seat that folds flat (!!!), you can carry a few 2x8 pieces of wood hanging out the back of the car!

+ the 1.8L mated to the 4AT sounds like it would be a horrible combination, but the car never feels out of it's depth. Obviously, 130HP isn't a lot, but I could cruise at 75MPH with a car full of people with no real issue. I like this powertrain combo more than whatever Honda was offering in the Civic at this time.

+ Toyota could take some lessons from this car in regards to making their steering on their modern cars better. It's not super fun, but it feels secure with adequate heft and feel.

+ the 110V two-pronged household outlet is super useful and I wish more cars had them.

- the one GM piece of equipment, that AC Delco stereo, always looks and performs like crap.

- Handling is so-so

- driving position isn't for everyone. Footwell is fairly shallow, and not a hell of a lot of range in the steering wheel position

Vibes are pretty competent cars, and I recommend them for someone looking for something reliable, good on gas, and cheap to run. Just keep oil in them, otherwise I'll buy them off you when that 1.8L blows up.

12,000 RPM

I was thinking about one when we were shopping for the Rabbit. I never drove one, but I feel like a same year VW feels more substantial.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

93JC

Quote from: 2o6 on January 24, 2017, 08:36:28 AM
- driving position isn't for everyone. Footwell is fairly shallow, and not a hell of a lot of range in the steering wheel position

Truf. I hated the seating position behind the wheel of this car. When I was shopping for a new car the Vibe/Matrix was immediately crossed off the list due to how uncomfortable it was to me.

2o6

Quote from: 93JC on January 24, 2017, 09:24:15 AM
Truf. I hated the seating position behind the wheel of this car. When I was shopping for a new car the Vibe/Matrix was immediately crossed off the list due to how uncomfortable it was to me.


The 2009+ Matrix/Vibe is even worse, IMO.



Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 24, 2017, 09:23:37 AM
I was thinking about one when we were shopping for the Rabbit. I never drove one, but I feel like a same year VW feels more substantial.

Not really. I mean, a Jetta IV feels pretty solid, but I wouldn't call the Toyota tinny or tippy.

Eye of the Tiger

The Matrix/Vibe, last Corollas, and even Camrys feel built for apes - long arms, short legs. I have long legs and short arms.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 24, 2017, 09:30:30 AM
The Matrix/Vibe, last Corollas, and even Camrys feel built for apes - long arms, short legs. I have long legs and short arms.

Some Civics are like that too.

El Camino is built perfectly for you.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

giant_mtb

Quote from: Raza  on January 18, 2017, 01:21:55 AM
I feel like Rav4s are pretty big.  Edge is definitely huge.

A Suburban is huge.  An Excursion is huge.  Edge is not even close to huge.

MrH

Quote from: giant_mtb on January 24, 2017, 11:20:04 AM
A Suburban is huge.  An Excursion is huge.  Edge is not even close to huge.

Yeah.  The 4Runner is quite a bit bigger than an Edge.  Hell, half ton trucks are the best sellers here and they're waaaaaay bigger than an Edge.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

2o6

Quote from: MrH on January 24, 2017, 11:22:20 AM
Yeah.  The 4Runner is quite a bit bigger than an Edge.  Hell, half ton trucks are the best sellers here and they're waaaaaay bigger than an Edge.

Wrong.


4 runner and Edge are actually about the same size, save for height. Edges are not small cars.

93JC

Quote from: 2o6 on January 24, 2017, 09:28:29 AM
The 2009+ Matrix/Vibe is even worse, IMO.

Agreed. I had been behind the wheel of an older one, and had a seat in the second-generation car at the local auto show. Even worse.

The car was super practical otherwise, lots of smart thinking went into it, but I despised being inside it.

giant_mtb

The Fold Flat Front Seat Is Definitely A Nice Touch.

Dunno why my phone just capitalized all those words.

Cookie Monster

Quote from: giant_mtb on January 24, 2017, 03:13:54 PM
The Fold Flat Front Seat Is Definitely A Nice Touch.

Dunno why my phone just capitalized all those words.

The ghost of 2o6 past has haunted your phone!!!11!!!one!!
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

giant_mtb

Quote from: Cookie Monster on January 24, 2017, 03:23:07 PM
The ghost of 2o6 past has haunted your phone!!!11!!!one!!

:lol:

When I returned down to the next line it went back to normal. Happens every once in a while.

Tave

Dang looking back on it the PlastiClad-era might have been the coup de grĂ¢ce of Pontiac's execution.
As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.

Quote from: thecarnut on March 16, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Depending on price, that could be a good deal.