Take this for what you will as I only drove the car for about 15min.
Exterior, ho hum... LEDs under the door handles was uber neat though.
Interior is nice and to the point. Materials don't seem particularly special, but executed quite well.
Onto the drive...
I loathe automatics, but the automatic in this car was nothing short of amazing. The "DS" mode might as well have been reading my mind, and the manumatic mode was not far off of driving a manual car.
Steering feel is worth mention. Nothing particularly special once into a corner IMO, but the turn in feeling is something I've never felt before.
Overall ride and handling didn't blow me away as I expected it to, perhaps I ruined it by expecting too much. It definitely handled well, but didn't manage to also subdue bumps in the road as well as the Legacy Spec B I drove a while back.
Power was a bit of disappointment IMO. Perhaps I was fooled by the presentation, but I'm sure my RSX would give it a good run and then some if not at least up to moderately illegal speeds.
I dunno. I really did expect to be a lot more impressed by an almighty BMW especially considering its $50,000 price tag. Alas, while I found it to be a very NICE car, I didn't really walk away from it converted or anything. It would be tough to sell me a car like that for $50,000 especially since despite being catered to the enthusiast they delete the f'in dipstick. I quote the salesman "BMW owners don't check their oil", I would have walked away at that, but it was a friend of mine taking it for a day so...
Quote from: VTEC_Inside on October 20, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
I loathe automatics, but the automatic in this car was nothing short of amazing. The "DS" mode might as well have been reading my mind, and the manumatic mode was not far off of driving a manual car.
General Motors 6L45 ;)
Quote from: 93JC on October 20, 2007, 08:12:42 PM
General Motors 6L45 ;)
Actually, they dumped the GM automatics. They all run ZF six speeds, as I do recall.
335s use ZFs, but the lower ones use GMs.
BMW's use GM transmissions?
Quote from: 93JC on October 20, 2007, 08:17:00 PM
335s use ZFs, but the lower ones use GMs.
Are you sure? I could have sworn they ditched the GM automatic altogether. The GM is a five speed, right? The 328i runs a sixer.
Quote from: Raghavan on October 20, 2007, 08:22:24 PM
BMW's use GM transmissions?
And up until recently, Jaguar and Porsche used Mercedes transmissions. I know Jag's running the ZF now (in newer cars), I don't know about Porsches.
Quote from: Raza on October 20, 2007, 08:25:39 PM
Are you sure? I could have sworn they ditched the GM automatic altogether. The GM is a five speed, right? The 328i runs a sixer.
No the 6L45 is used in the 328i. In GM parlance, the number ahead of the letter refers to the number of gears in the tranny.
93JC is right.
Quote from: Raghavan on October 20, 2007, 08:22:24 PM
BMW's use GM transmissions?
The automatics in some 3 and 5 series cars from the 90's were Gm transmissions as well. GM makes a damn good automatic.
Quote from: The Pirate on October 20, 2007, 08:27:06 PM
No the 6L45 is used in the 328i. In GM parlance, the number ahead of the letter refers to the number of gears in the tranny.
93JC is right.
Why run a ZF 6 speed in every car but one, and run someone else's six speed? That can't be cost effective.
Quote from: Raza on October 20, 2007, 08:29:09 PM
Why run a ZF 6 speed in every car but one, and run someone else's six speed? That can't be cost effective.
If the 328 is the volume leader, and the GM tranny costs them significantly less per unit, it could work out. I'm not sure though, you are more of a numbers guy than me.
It might be a power output issue, but the 6L45 can handle more than 300 ft.lbs. of torque.
Quote from: The Pirate on October 20, 2007, 08:34:11 PM
If the 328 is the volume leader, and the GM tranny costs them significantly less per unit, it could work out. I'm not sure though, you are more of a numbers guy than me.
It might be a power output issue, but the 6L45 can handle more than 300 ft.lbs. of torque.
But if they run the 6L45 on the 328i and the ZF model on their V8 and turbo I6 models, what does the torque capacity of the 6L45 matter?
It isn't like the 6L45 isn't a good tranny, either. It's among the smoother out there right now. Why not use it in a 5er?
Quote from: Raza on October 20, 2007, 08:42:02 PM
But if they run the 6L45 on the 328i and the ZF model on their V8 and turbo I6 models, what does the torque capacity of the 6L45 matter?
What are the torque levels of the turbo 6 and V8? It might be above what the 6L45 can handle without self-grenading. I don't know why they do that, honestly.
Quote from: The Pirate on October 20, 2007, 08:45:02 PM
What are the torque levels of the turbo 6 and V8? It might be above what the 6L45 can handle without self-grenading. I don't know why they do that, honestly.
300 and 360. Odd that the horsepower ratings are also 300 and 360 respectively.
Quote from: Raza on October 20, 2007, 08:26:42 PM
And up until recently, Jaguar and Porsche used Mercedes transmissions. I know Jag's running the ZF now (in newer cars), I don't know about Porsches.
Porsche has used ZFs for many years. In fact, the only one I can't think of that didn't use a ZF was the 928, which was sourced somewhat from Mercedes-Benz.
Jaguar used GM three- and four-speeds for decades.
Quote from: Raza on October 20, 2007, 08:29:09 PM
Why run a ZF 6 speed in every car but one, and run someone else's six speed? That can't be cost effective.
The 6L45/50 is also used in the X3 and X5.
Quote from: 93JC on October 20, 2007, 09:12:00 PM
Porsche has used ZFs for many years. In fact, the only one I can't think of that didn't use a ZF was the 928, which was sourced somewhat from Mercedes-Benz.
Jaguar used GM three- and four-speeds for decades.
The 6L45/50 is also used in the X3 and X5.
Hehe...no wonder my parents jag had so many transmission problems. :tounge:
On a side note, the 5-speed slushie in my BMW is a great box. I wouldn't call the manumatic feature particularly brilliant, but it is smooth as can be.
Quote from: VTEC_Inside on October 20, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
Take this for what you will as I only drove the car for about 15min.
Exterior, ho hum... LEDs under the door handles was uber neat though.
Interior is nice and to the point. Materials don't seem particularly special, but executed quite well.
Onto the drive...
I loathe automatics, but the automatic in this car was nothing short of amazing. The "DS" mode might as well have been reading my mind, and the manumatic mode was not far off of driving a manual car.
Steering feel is worth mention. Nothing particularly special once into a corner IMO, but the turn in feeling is something I've never felt before.
Overall ride and handling didn't blow me away as I expected it to, perhaps I ruined it by expecting too much. It definitely handled well, but didn't manage to also subdue bumps in the road as well as the Legacy Spec B I drove a while back.
Power was a bit of disappointment IMO. Perhaps I was fooled by the presentation, but I'm sure my RSX would give it a good run and then some if not at least up to moderately illegal speeds.
I dunno. I really did expect to be a lot more impressed by an almighty BMW especially considering its $50,000 price tag. Alas, while I found it to be a very NICE car, I didn't really walk away from it converted or anything. It would be tough to sell me a car like that for $50,000 especially since despite being catered to the enthusiast they delete the f'in dipstick. I quote the salesman "BMW owners don't check their oil", I would have walked away at that, but it was a friend of mine taking it for a day so...
I feel exactly the same way. I drove a BMW 325 auto back when my friend was looking at one. I wasn't blown away. It was a nice enough car, but I didn't really feel any of the wonderful steering or the amazing ride and handling trade off. It seemed pretty much on par with it's competitors. My friend however (who incidently knows absolutely knows nothing about cars and drove a Camry) was totally smitten with it, saying now he understood what those magazines were raving about.
I definitely feel there is an Emperorer's new clothes situation with many people's impression of BMW's.
Quote from: 93JC on October 20, 2007, 09:12:00 PM
Porsche has used ZFs for many years. In fact, the only one I can't think of that didn't use a ZF was the 928, which was sourced somewhat from Mercedes-Benz.
Jaguar used GM three- and four-speeds for decades.
The 6L45/50 is also used in the X3 and X5.
The 996 used Mercedes 5 speeds, I'm almost sure of it.
Quote from: 565 on October 21, 2007, 10:00:24 AM
I feel exactly the same way. I drove a BMW 325 auto back when my friend was looking at one. I wasn't blown away. It was a nice enough car, but I didn't really feel any of the wonderful steering or the amazing ride and handling trade off. It seemed pretty much on par with it's competitors. My friend however (who incidently knows absolutely knows nothing about cars and drove a Camry) was totally smitten with it, saying now he understood what those magazines were raving about.
I definitely feel there is an Emperorer's new clothes situation with many people's impression of BMW's.
Thank goodness someone else finally sees that.
I'm pretty sure some Cadillac's use ZFs as well.
Quote from: Raza on October 21, 2007, 11:03:48 AM
The 996 used Mercedes 5 speeds, I'm almost sure of it.
ZF 5HP19HL
Quote from: JYODER240 on October 21, 2007, 11:51:23 AM
I'm pretty sure some Cadillacs use ZFs as well.
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single Cadillac that has ever used a non-GM automatic, except the BLS. I don't know what the BLS uses, but I assume it's the same as the Saab 9-3, which uses an Aisin 5-speed.
Quote from: TheIntrepid on October 21, 2007, 01:02:41 PM
ES 250HP 3.5L
:rolleyes:
That really is the transmission used in the 996.
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:08:55 PM
:rolleyes:
That really is the transmission used in the 996.
SXT 205HP 3.8L
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:00:06 PM
ZF 5HP19HL
I do remember reading that it was a Mercedes 5 speed. But it was from Car and Driver, so it was probably wrong.
Quote from: 93JC on October 21, 2007, 01:07:16 PM
Off the top of my head I can't think of a single Cadillac that has ever used a non-GM automatic, except the BLS. I don't know what the BLS uses, but I assume it's the same as the Saab 9-3, which uses an Aisin 5-speed.
Logic says it would use that Aisin, since it's just a rebody on the 9-3. Changing the transmission is again, not cost effective.
And I think Aisin is partially owned by Toyota, is it not?
Quote from: the Teuton on October 21, 2007, 02:18:06 PM
And I think Aisin is partially owned by Toyota, is it not?
It is.
Bah I was hoping this was for a 200 328i... still a good review though.
I think to fully enjoy a BMW you have to modify it a bit and take it to 10/10ths. Around town it's probably 10x more fun than a Camry, but a Camry is a Camry...
Stock for stock I think Bimmers are awesome. I need more seat time in them though. But I think once you start modifying cars the gap starts to close.
Quote from: 565 on October 21, 2007, 10:00:24 AM
I feel exactly the same way. I drove a BMW 325 auto back when my friend was looking at one. I wasn't blown away. It was a nice enough car, but I didn't really feel any of the wonderful steering or the amazing ride and handling trade off. It seemed pretty much on par with it's competitors. My friend however (who incidently knows absolutely knows nothing about cars and drove a Camry) was totally smitten with it, saying now he understood what those magazines were raving about.
I definitely feel there is an Emperorer's new clothes situation with many people's impression of BMW's.
I felt the same way when I drove an E46 sedan (325 I think) back in 2002. It was much better than what I was driving at the time, but it didn't blow me away like I expected from hearing BMW fanbois, er, mag reviews :rolleyes:
edit: OMG my 1000th post! :rockon:
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Quote from: 565 on October 21, 2007, 10:00:24 AM
My friend however (who incidently knows absolutely knows nothing about cars and drove a Camry) was totally smitten with it, saying now he understood what those magazines were raving about.
Coincidently the friend of mine that had the car for a day fits that description to a "T" as well. Him and his gf are absolutely gaga over the thing.
Quote from: VTEC_Inside on October 20, 2007, 07:34:24 PM
Alas, while I found it to be a very NICE car, I didn't really walk away from it converted or anything. It would be tough to sell me a car like that for $50,000 especially since despite being catered to the enthusiast they delete the f'in dipstick. I quote the salesman "BMW owners don't check their oil", I would have walked away at that, but it was a friend of mine taking it for a day so...
BMW's decision to eliminate dipsticks does not sit well with me. For a company that prides itself on its engineering prowess, I think it's a terrible engineering decision. What are you supposed to do if your low oil light goes on? Call BMW to tow the car to the dealer so they can determine how low the oil is and top it off? Without knowing exactly how low the oil is, you can't safely top it off. Overfilling can cause engine damage. Unless you just add oil and keep checking to see when the light turns off. Of course, that's the scenario for when the system is working correctly. There's the possibility that the light is triggered by a faulty sensor and you end up overfilling the crank case. Dipsticks are simple, inexpensive and extremely effective. The idiot light in the dash is not supposed to be the only means of monitoring oil levels. It really should be the last line of defense for warnings against running the engine low on oil. Now, had they replaced the dipstick with a readout that actually told you roughly how much oil was left in the crankcase like a fuel gauge, I'd find the elimination of the dipstick a little easier to swallow.
I agree, that is pretty ghey.
Quote from: MX793 on October 21, 2007, 07:18:42 PM
BMW's decision to eliminate dipsticks does not sit well with me. For a company that prides itself on its engineering prowess, I think it's a terrible engineering decision. What are you supposed to do if your low oil light goes on? Call BMW to tow the car to the dealer so they can determine how low the oil is and top it off? Without knowing exactly how low the oil is, you can't safely top it off. Overfilling can cause engine damage. Unless you just add oil and keep checking to see when the light turns off. Of course, that's the scenario for when the system is working correctly. There's the possibility that the light is triggered by a faulty sensor and you end up overfilling the crank case. Dipsticks are simple, inexpensive and extremely effective. The idiot light in the dash is not supposed to be the only means of monitoring oil levels. It really should be the last line of defense for warnings against running the engine low on oil. Now, had they replaced the dipstick with a readout that actually told you roughly how much oil was left in the crankcase like a fuel gauge, I'd find the elimination of the dipstick a little easier to swallow.
Couldn't agree more. I've heard that they actually have had trouble with the "low oil" sensors and people were overfilling their cars.
FYI, the "M" cars still get dipsticks.
Even the BMW techs don't know how much oil is in there unless they drain it and measure. You would think that they would leave it there if only for the technicians sake.
To make matters worse, the change intervals are apparently like 24,000kms. Sorry, I suppose I could get over leaving the oil in there that long, but I'd like to keep an eye on it.
yeah, you should see how the BMW Club magazine and it's readers are trashing BMW over the dipstick issue.
You don't just check level by looking at the dipstick, you check condition of the oil. It's simply silly not to have a dipstick.