The old Legacy after a 6-mph front-end collision:
(http://www.iihs.org/sr/sr4410/2007legacy.jpg)
The new Legacy after a 6-mph front-end collision:
(http://www.iihs.org/sr/sr4410/2010legacy.jpg)
http://www.iihs.org/sr/sr4410/default.html
I miss the understated looks of the old model, but cheaper to own and operate is always a good thing. Subaru is on a roll right now.
:confused:
That's a dramatic improvement!
I really don't see where it needs repair.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 09, 2009, 09:29:35 AM
I really don't see where it needs repair.
Probably some scuff marks and snapped bumper cover clips here and there, maybe some damage to the components underneath. The sort of thing that most people would probably only get fixed if someone else were at fault and their insurance was covering it.
Wow, that's impressive. Still ugly though.
Ugly's ugly. Don't crash.
IMO that's not why the car is a styling mess. Subaru needs to address wheel well/wheel size ratio, dump the lower body cladding and ridiculous wheel arc, and give it a bit of a forward rake.
Wow. The new car looks like the old car does after the 6 mph crash.
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 09, 2009, 11:11:34 AM
Wow. The new car looks like the old car does after the 6 mph crash.
:lol:
I have to congratulate Subaru............. from offering a car that had universal respect, with the old model, they have launched a car which I have yet to see anyone in the UK say that they like. Indeed, if you read the thread on the Autocar forum, all the current owners of the old model say that they have absolutely no intention of going anywhere the latest styling goof-up.
First they dilute the appeal of the Impreza, and now they throw away their Legacy buyers......... don't think they can survive on Forester sales alone.
At least when Peugeot beat their cars with the ugly stick more times than you could imagine, sales magically went up (god knows why!).
Doesn't the 6 mph collision test to see what happens if you run into a pickup or SUV at 6 mph? Looks like the old car's bumper was a hair too low to line up with that of a truck, which is why the grille got all bashed in. The new one's taller bumper and nose obviously aligns better. My solution would be to impose bumper height limits on pickups and SUVs. Commercial trucks have them.
Quote from: Colin on November 09, 2009, 01:02:54 PM
First they dilute the appeal of the Impreza
to be honest... no they haven't. I test drove both recently.... compared to the new cars, the old ones feel like really really cheap econotrash.
I came away with thinking that the subie fans bitching about the car are the people out there that believe the only way a car can handle good is if its stiff as a board... a ride in a RX8 or 3 series would quickly squash that myth for them
Quote from: r0tor on November 09, 2009, 04:58:43 PM
to be honest... no they haven't. I test drove both recently.... compared to the new cars, the old ones feel like really really cheap econotrash.
I came away with thinking that the subie fans bitching about the car are the people out there that believe the only way a car can handle good is if its stiff as a board... a ride in a RX8 or 3 series would quickly squash that myth for them
That plus Subaru fans tend to be absurdly anti-change. Any time Subaru redesigns a much-loved model it gets tons of hate from all the current owners about how badly they effed up, yet with time even the most ardent fanbois eventually realize that yeah, that new car sure is nice after all.
Quote from: R-inge on November 09, 2009, 05:14:11 PM
That plus Subaru fans tend to be absurdly anti-change. Any time Subaru redesigns a much-loved model it gets tons of hate from all the current owners about how badly they effed up, yet with time even the most ardent fanbois eventually realize that yeah, that new car sure is nice after all.
I'm guilty of this.
So am I.
:mask:
Quote from: r0tor on November 09, 2009, 04:58:43 PM
to be honest... no they haven't. I test drove both recently.... compared to the new cars, the old ones feel like really really cheap econotrash.
I came away with thinking that the subie fans bitching about the car are the people out there that believe the only way a car can handle good is if its stiff as a board... a ride in a RX8 or 3 series would quickly squash that myth for them
Um, the old WRX is not really very stiff...at all...
Quote from: Raza on November 09, 2009, 07:00:46 PM
Um, the old WRX is not really very stiff...at all...
I believe it was 140% stiffer than the old Impreza it replaced.
Quote from: Raza on November 09, 2009, 07:00:46 PM
Um, the old WRX is not really very stiff...at all...
I'm guessing he means spring rates and shock dampening.
Am I the only one who realized the old one was rated "poor" and the new one "acceptable"?
Other carmakers can build good looking cars that achieve that.
Oh and at least the wings from the SUbaru badge look the same on that old one after the crash and on the new one.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on November 10, 2009, 09:16:47 AM
Howso?
They and Hyundai were the only two automakers to show positive growth overall in 08, and this year they are up even further. If that helps clear things up.
Legacy sales are up like 15% with this supposedly ass-ugly redesign.
Quote from: R-inge on November 10, 2009, 03:08:26 PM
They and Hyundai were the only two automakers to show positive growth overall in 08, and this year they are up even further. If that helps clear things up.
Legacy sales are up like 15% with this supposedly ass-ugly redesign.
People buy lots of ass-ugly cars. :huh:
Quote from: TBR on November 10, 2009, 04:00:09 PM
People buy lots of ass-ugly cars. :huh:
Har har... my knee is raw from slapping it. :rolleyes:
I don't get it. It's not even ugly.
Quote from: R-inge on November 10, 2009, 04:17:55 PM
Har har... my knee is raw from slapping it. :rolleyes:
Wasn't supposed to be funny. Sales are no indication of taste.
I just like how your taste is the gold standard. ;)
Quote from: R-inge on November 11, 2009, 01:31:51 PM
I just like how your taste is the gold standard. ;)
It isn't just my taste; the consensus in the enthusiast community seems to be that this car is ugly.
Quote from: TBR on November 11, 2009, 02:02:47 PM
It isn't just my taste; the consensus in the enthusiast community seems to be that this car is ugly.
I think the word "ugly" is heavily overused in the automotive enthusiast crowd.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 09, 2009, 07:04:11 PM
I believe it was 140% stiffer than the old Impreza it replaced.
What did they use for the suspension in the old one? Pudding? Hopes and dreams?
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 11, 2009, 02:08:11 PM
I think the word "ugly" is heavily overused in the automotive enthusiast crowd.
I think it's criminally underused.
Quote from: TBR on November 11, 2009, 02:02:47 PM
It isn't just my taste; the consensus in the enthusiast community seems to be that this car is ugly.
Like that matters. And who are enthusiasts to say a car is ugly? I mean, it might be the opinion of some (I contend, the minority) but that doesn't mean that non-enthusiasts should bow before their almighty wisdom.
Quote from: R-inge on November 11, 2009, 02:23:55 PM
Like that matters. And who are enthusiasts to say a car is ugly? I mean, it might be the opinion of some (I contend, the minority) but that doesn't mean that non-enthusiasts should bow before their almighty wisdom.
Being me, my opinion is all that matters.
That's how it works.
Quote from: Raza on November 11, 2009, 02:39:10 PM
Being me, my opinion is all that matters.
That's how it works.
Well I think you're full of crap. :lol:
The Exiga's simpler front-end treatment is arguably the more successful using essentially the same dimensions:
(http://www.easycarblog.com/wp-content/gallery/21_october_2009-subaru-exiga-20gt-sti/subaru-exiga-20gt-sti-22.jpg)
The slightly-awkward upright roofline at the rear of the car is to accommodate the third-row seating, but the creaseline and sculpting around the sills and bottom of the doors helps to reduce (but not quite eliminate) the slab-sided look of the Legacy/Outback:
(http://www.easycarblog.com/wp-content/gallery/21_october_2009-subaru-exiga-20gt-sti/subaru-exiga-20gt-sti-18.jpg)
(http://www.easycarblog.com/wp-content/gallery/20_may_2009-subaru-legacy-jdm/subaru-legacy-jdm-1.jpg)
Plus, I find the Exiga's black glass D-pillar treatment to be better-looking than that of the Legacy. The less-comical wheelarches, too. The smaller cut-outs for the door-handles, for that matter. And so on.
Quote from: R-inge on November 11, 2009, 02:23:55 PM
Like that matters. And who are enthusiasts to say a car is ugly? I mean, it might be the opinion of some (I contend, the minority) but that doesn't mean that non-enthusiasts should bow before their almighty wisdom.
Reading a wide range of posts in the UK, such as on the Autocar Forum, I don't think the allegation of ugliness is a minority view. It would seem to be almost universal agreement.
I know beauty is in the eye of the proverbial beholder, but..........
....... to mind, there are plenty of other recent cars that fully deserve the same brickbat. It's about time someone told all those committees that sign off such hideous new machines (Peugeot, for instance) that their latest creation is visually unpleasant.
Quote from: Colin on November 12, 2009, 03:11:45 AM
Reading a wide range of posts in the UK, such as on the Autocar Forum, I don't think the allegation of ugliness is a minority view. It would seem to be almost universal agreement.
I know beauty is in the eye of the proverbial beholder, but..........
....... to mind, there are plenty of other recent cars that fully deserve the same brickbat. It's about time someone told all those committees that sign off such hideous new machines (Peugeot, for instance) that their latest creation is visually unpleasant.
I haven't read many reviews on the car so I'll take your word for it. Still, it's hardly ugly. Yes, I admit my first response was, "Oh dear..." but I find it grows on me. That's all. And for some twerp to insist that the only reason it's selling better is because people have crap taste is silly to me. Clearly it isn't as bad as its made out to be if sales are actually up over the supposedly better looking predecessor.
Quote from: omicron on November 11, 2009, 11:13:35 PM
The Exiga's simpler front-end treatment is arguably the more successful using essentially the same dimensions:
(http://www.easycarblog.com/wp-content/gallery/21_october_2009-subaru-exiga-20gt-sti/subaru-exiga-20gt-sti-22.jpg)
The slightly-awkward upright roofline at the rear of the car is to accommodate the third-row seating, but the creaseline and sculpting around the sills and bottom of the doors helps to reduce (but not quite eliminate) the slab-sided look of the Legacy/Outback:
(http://www.easycarblog.com/wp-content/gallery/21_october_2009-subaru-exiga-20gt-sti/subaru-exiga-20gt-sti-18.jpg)
(http://www.easycarblog.com/wp-content/gallery/20_may_2009-subaru-legacy-jdm/subaru-legacy-jdm-1.jpg)
Plus, I find the Exiga's black glass D-pillar treatment to be better-looking than that of the Legacy. The less-comical wheelarches, too. The smaller cut-outs for the door-handles, for that matter. And so on.
I like the look of this thing. A tad bland and awkward maybe, but I generally like it.
Quote from: R-inge on November 12, 2009, 08:24:21 AM
I haven't read many reviews on the car so I'll take your word for it. Still, it's hardly ugly. Yes, I admit my first response was, "Oh dear..." but I find it grows on me. That's all. And for some twerp to insist that the only reason it's selling better is because people have crap taste is silly to me. Clearly it isn't as bad as its made out to be if sales are actually up over the supposedly better looking predecessor.
Way to put words in my mouth, twerp.
To clarify, your mention of increased sales almost seemed like an implication that the car was attractive. I can agree that it might just be generic, but it sure isn't attractive. That's the same fallacy that suggests that the Camry is the best car because it has the highest sales. The argument carries no weight. Furthermore, I hardly think it is radical to suggest that the public has questionable taste in cars.
Quote from: R-inge on November 10, 2009, 03:08:26 PM
They and Hyundai were the only two automakers to show positive growth overall in 08, and this year they are up even further. If that helps clear things up.
Legacy sales are up like 15% with this supposedly ass-ugly redesign.
Interesting, thanks for enlightening me.
Quote from: TBR on November 12, 2009, 09:55:10 AM
Way to put words in my mouth, twerp.
Subtract smugness from your list of personal attributes, please. Nobody is impressed.
QuoteTo clarify, your mention of increased sales almost seemed like an implication that the car was attractive. I can agree that it might just be generic, but it sure isn't attractive. That's the same fallacy that suggests that the Camry is the best car because it has the highest sales. The argument carries no weight. Furthermore, I hardly think it is radical to suggest that the public has questionable taste in cars.
The fallacy is that you somehow have the market cornered on taste, and the fact is that people don't buy ugly cars. The one and only reason the Aztek didn't succeed long term is because it looks like crap. So the argument that it's selling better can in some way be predicated on looks, actually.
:huh:
Quote from: R-inge on November 12, 2009, 12:48:28 PM
Subtract smugness from your list of personal attributes, please. Nobody is impressed.
I am not really sure what your point is. You said I said something that I didn't say, followed by an unnecessary put-down.
Quote
The fallacy is that you somehow have the market cornered on taste, and the fact is that people don't buy ugly cars. The one and only reason the Aztek didn't succeed long term is because it looks like crap. So the argument that it's selling better can in some way be predicated on looks, actually.
:huh:
People bought the Aztek. People buy more than just styling. In fact, I think you are the one being arrogant if you think that people buy cars solely for their styling.
Quote from: TBR on November 12, 2009, 12:54:18 PM
I am not really sure what your point is. You said I said something that I didn't say, followed by an unnecessary put-down.
People bought the Aztek. People buy more than just styling.
:cry:
Quote from: R-inge on November 12, 2009, 12:55:38 PM
:cry:
Way to make yourself look even more like an asshole.
Bah, twerp was uncalled for on my part, it's just that your smug assertion that your taste is relevant to this discussion is annoying to me, sorry.
I've seen a few in the flesh, and they look better in person.
I'd like this (http://www.subarunorthwest.com/inventoryDisplay.aspx?s=new_detail&year=2010&make=Subaru&model=Legacy%202.5GT%20LIMITED&inv=26&vin=4S3BMFK62A1216106&total=18&pos=1¤t=1&size=10), but the Premium trim level (i.e., no leather) for about $28k.
Inasmuch as I'm not a fan of the styling nor boxer-4s, this is my front runner for my next car.
Quote from: TBR on November 12, 2009, 12:56:06 PM
Way to make yourself look even more like an asshole.
Hey man, chill it. Twerp was pretty mild. Asshole though? Oh boy, now you gone and done it...
Quote from: R-inge on November 12, 2009, 12:57:06 PM
Bah, twerp was uncalled for on my part, it's just that your smug assertion that your taste is relevant to this discussion is annoying to me, sorry.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=20429.msg1198617#msg1198617 date=1257787718
Ugly's ugly. Don't crash.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 09, 2009, 11:05:15 AM
IMO that's not why the car is a styling mess. Subaru needs to address wheel well/wheel size ratio, dump the lower body cladding and ridiculous wheel arc, and give it a bit of a forward rake.
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 09, 2009, 11:11:34 AM
Wow. The new car looks like the old car does after the 6 mph crash.
Quote from: Colin on November 09, 2009, 01:02:54 PM
I have to congratulate Subaru............. from offering a car that had universal respect, with the old model, they have launched a car which I have yet to see anyone in the UK say that they like. Indeed, if you read the thread on the Autocar forum, all the current owners of the old model say that they have absolutely no intention of going anywhere the latest styling goof-up.
Was their taste somehow relevant when mine wasn't it?
I don't think so.
Quote from: R-inge on November 12, 2009, 01:00:16 PM
Hey man, chill it. Twerp was pretty mild. Asshole though? Oh boy, now you gone and done it...
You provoked it, I didn't.
Quote from: TBR on November 12, 2009, 01:01:01 PM
Was their taste somehow relevant when mine wasn't it?
I don't think so.
I do. :loopy:
:popcorn:
Quote from: TBR on November 12, 2009, 01:01:38 PM
You provoked it, I didn't.
Dude, let's not get into a war of words here. If I apologize can we move on? The ongoing saga that is teh SPIN is a drag.
It's entertaining.. fight fight fight.... Share some of that popcorn Nick....
:popcorn:
:facepalm:
Volvo S80 thread part deux?
Show's over folks. :lol:
I like the new Legacy and Outback.
Quote from: CJ on November 12, 2009, 07:02:46 PM
I like the new Legacy and Outback.
Ditto, their looks have been growing on me, and they seem to be quite competent.
Still ugly.
Let's be honest, it's not that pretty, but the new Leggie is the bomb diggity.
The new one's probably selling more because it's better suited as a midsizer than the old car. The last Legacy was smaller than my Jetta on the inside (which is large for a compact, but still a compact).
I have seen a few in person. Almost as bad as the TL.
Ya, the previous generation Legacy was a compact, plus it looked a bit too Kmart fancy. Americans for the most part don't want that. They want plain jane - which is exactly what the new car is.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 13, 2009, 08:54:43 AM
Ya, the previous generation Legacy was a compact, plus it looked a bit too Kmart fancy. Americans for the most part don't want that. They want plain jane - which is exactly what the new car is.
I wouldn't call this car plain Jane...I think it's hideous. I thought the last one was quite handsome, if a bit on the plain side in lower trim.
I know you relish in hyperbole, but come on man. :facepalm:
It looks fine in person... the outback version probably looks better then the old ones
Quote from: R-inge on November 13, 2009, 09:40:52 AM
I know you relish in hyperbole, but come on man. :facepalm:
Hyperbole would be saying that I have to fight back bile every time I see one. Hideous was just pull-no-punches.
Every review I've read has been positive, but all the pages have been in the wrong order because the reviewers had to tape their eyelids shut before going near the car.
They could have applied the new front end technology to a car with similar styling and sizing of the old car
The Legacy has been Mazda6'd
Quote from: sportyaccordy on November 14, 2009, 05:02:43 PM
They could have applied the new front end technology to a car with similar styling and sizing of the old car
The Legacy has been Mazda6'd
It wouldn't make any sense to keep the car the same size; the interior was too small for the exterior.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=20429.msg1202905#msg1202905 date=1258273106
It wouldn't make any sense to keep the car the same size; the interior was too small for the exterior.
At least the interior wasn't too big for the exterior, then the car would have exploded!
Quote from: NACar on November 15, 2009, 03:34:40 AM
At least the interior wasn't too big for the exterior, then the car would have exploded!
(http://www.ttrove.com/images/Standups/881%20The%20Tardis.jpg)
The Subaru Tardis. Coming to dealers in 2010. :lol:
Cheers,
Madman of the People
After the 2008 Impreza came out, the Legacy felt like it had less usable passenger space.
I adjusted the superseded Liberty and Forester's driver's seats to my preferred position, and could hardly fit into the back seat of either without kicking all the imaginary passengers in the head and cutting off my feet. Mind you, I drive from the front seat and I don't want any passengers - acceleration and economy improve measurably without mouthy sorts cluttering up the leather seating areas.