another good looking car for 2013, at least from what has been exposed thus far:
full pic:
Added: 01/08/2012
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/01/2013-ford-fusion-mondeo-leak-czech.html :wub:
glimps:
From: 01/07/2012
http://jalopnik.com/5873951/2013-ford-fusion-this-is-it :popcorn:
i find it rather odd that video footage/pics of the dodge (2013 dart) and ford ('13 fusion) were accidentally leaked and within hours apart. sounds like two like PR moves from each corporation.
could it be the 2013 lincoln MKZ instead? lincoln promises a european-like grille. hmm...
The front is awful, and the rest looks like the Sonata but more boring, from what we can actually see.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2012/01/0000049419fordmondeo2012fusion2013unik01fin800600-opt.jpg)
i actually like the front, but it seems like it should be a lincoln (very austin-like). i do see the hyundai sonata lines very clearly. hopefully, this will not be a trend, with "every" midsize car looking alike.
I love it. It looks a lot like that concept from earlier last year. If that is what it looks like, then could be a contender for my wife's next car.
i would love to see the rear of the car.
Wow I like that a lot. Reminds me of a Jag front end.
Quote from: TurboDan on January 08, 2012, 09:50:22 AM
Wow I like that a lot. Reminds me of a Jag front end.
will be interesting to see if it becomes the new face of ford...
Quote from: Atomic on January 08, 2012, 09:52:04 AM
will be interesting to see if it becomes the new face of ford...
It couldn't hurt. IMO an odd, and glaring, downside to most American carmakers is that there has always been little continuity from model to model. No uniformity. You could have one car with a front fascia that looks completely and totally different from another. Dodge and Caddy are two exceptions (maybe Buick too), but generally speaking, they've been all over the place.
When I look at a BMW - whether it's a car or SUV - I know it's a BMW. I like that, and it gives the brand identity and (again, IMHO) some pride/history in design.
Quote from: TurboDan on January 08, 2012, 09:55:43 AM
It couldn't hurt. IMO an odd, and glaring, downside to most American carmakers is that there has always been little continuity from model to model. No uniformity. You could have one car with a front fascia that looks completely and totally different from another. Dodge and Caddy are two exceptions (maybe Buick too), but generally speaking, they've been all over the place.
When I look at a BMW - whether it's a car or SUV - I know it's a BMW. I like that, and it gives the brand identity and (again, IMHO) some pride/history in design.
A lot of automakers keep trying for a uniform cue, but it's continually changing -- by the time most of the line has it, the newest models have already moved on. Exhibit A: Ford, which launched horizontal chrome bars in the 2006 Fusion and dumped them when it started bringing over European models.
Quote from: ifcar on January 08, 2012, 10:01:44 AM
A lot of automakers keep trying for a uniform cue, but it's continually changing -- by the time most of the line has it, the newest models have already moved on. Exhibit A: Ford, which launched horizontal chrome bars in the 2006 Fusion and dumped them when it started bringing over European models.
Exactly. Look at Hyundail. They are not using this concept either to great success. What you want is unique, competitive models across your lineup.
What works for the Germans does not work for all.
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8408/fordmondeofotoshowimage.jpg)
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1371/fordmondeoinnenraumfoto.jpg)
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1371/fordmondeoinnenraumfoto.jpg)
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8408/fordmondeofotoshowimage.jpg)
(http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/9877/detomasomangustafotosho.jpg)
Still unsure about it. Will have to see it in the flesh. Greenhouse looks like the Mazda 6 and the taillights are strait from Maserati.
I like the outside. The interior, alas, has been MyFordTouched.
2011 Ford Mondeo:
(http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/23431/images/FordMondeo2011facelift_2.jpg)
(http://www.themotorreport.com.au/content/image/2/0/2011_ford_mondeo_update_europe_australia_unclear_01-4c27d38d7942d.jpg)
Which looks better than the Fusion IMO.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 08, 2012, 08:28:50 PM
2011 Ford Mondeo:
(http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/23431/images/FordMondeo2011facelift_2.jpg)
(http://www.themotorreport.com.au/content/image/2/0/2011_ford_mondeo_update_europe_australia_unclear_01-4c27d38d7942d.jpg)
(http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/raccoon-cage-fence-do-want-1301677106K.jpg)
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b7ff27c9-550592.jpg)
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b260f1e9-550593.jpg)
I actually really like it.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 08, 2012, 09:10:23 PM
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b7ff27c9-550592.jpg)
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b260f1e9-550593.jpg)
Oh my god. Please offer this here.
:-O
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7149/6663640239_42d3f6a79f_b.jpg)
Quote
NAIAS: 2013 Ford Fusion
DETROIT, Jan. 9, 2012 ? Ford?s all-new Fusion brings alive the next generation of more expressive vehicles from Ford and is the first sedan to offer gasoline, hybrid and plug-in hybrid versions ? each expected to deliver top fuel economy and an engaging driving experience.
Featuring a sleek silhouette and fresh face, the all-new Fusion is the latest in a series of vehicles from Ford ? following the 2011 Fiesta subcompact and 2012 Focus small cars ? developed to satisfy customers everywhere looking for leading fuel efficiency, helpful technologies and game-changing looks.
?Our vision for Fusion was clear ? deliver the very best of what ?One Ford? stands for,? said Derrick Kuzak, group vice president of Global Product Development. ?We brought our global teams together around a blank slate with the charge to develop a midsize car with ground- breaking design and jaw-dropping fuel economy ? one that featured technologies to help make our customers safer and better drivers. This car is the result.?
Fusion is revealed in North America in S, SE and range-topping Titanium series and points to the next Ford Mondeo for world markets.
For more information on the importance of the midsize car market, please follow this link: http://youtu.be/7C2ipp5A7gQ
Triple-crown fuel efficiency
New Fusion is expected to deliver best-in-class fuel economy across customers? choice of gasoline, hybrid and plug-in hybrid sub-segments, delivering on Ford?s commitment to be the fuel-efficiency leader ? or among the leaders ? with each new model brought to market. Fusion brings the broadest selection of fuel-efficient powertrains in the midsize car segment. It offers hybrid and plug-in hybrid alternatives, a pair of EcoBoost? four-cylinder engines, a normally aspirated four-cylinder engine, an automatic start stop system to shut off the engine at stationary idle, front-wheel drive and all-wheel drive applications, and a choice between automatic and manually shifted six-speed transmissions.
The 1.6-liter EcoBoost is expected to deliver best-in-class four-cylinder non-hybrid fuel efficiency of 26 mpg in the city and 37 mpg on the highway. The 2.0-liter EcoBoost engine ? paired with a paddle-shifted six-speed SelectShift Automatic? transmission, available 19-inch wheels and tires and all-wheel drive with the ability to send additional torque to the rear ? is the Fusion performance option.
The Fusion Hybrid ? 2010 North American Car of the Year ? continues to innovate and evolve with all-new lithium-ion batteries that save weight and generate more power than previous nickel-metal hydride batteries, while raising maximum speed under electric-only power from 47 mph to 62 mph.
Fusion Hybrid also features an all-new 2.0-liter Atkinson-cycle four-cylinder gasoline engine, significantly downsized from the previous 2.5-liter unit while maintaining performance standards. This innovative powertrain is anticipated to deliver best-in-class fuel economy of 47 mpg in city driving and 44 mpg on the highway.
Fusion Hybrid fuel economy stands to outperform the 2012 Toyota Camry Hybrid by 4 mpg city and 5 mpg highway and the 2011 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid by 12 mpg and 4 mpg, respectively.
Topping the fuel-efficiency ladder is the Fusion Energi plug-in hybrid, aiming to be the most fuel-efficient midsize car in the world. Arriving this fall, Fusion Energi is anticipated to deliver more than 100 MPGe, a mile per gallon equivalency metric for electrified vehicles. This is 8 MPGe more than the Chevrolet Volt and 13 MPGe more than the projected efficiency of the Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid model.
The next-generation Fusion 1.6-liter is the first automatic-transmission Ford product offered with an automatic start-stop system. It shuts off engine power smoothly when the car is stopped and seamlessly restarts as the driver releases the brake pedal, helping Fusion to reduce fuel consumption and emissions by approximately 3.5 percent.
Fusion looks out for you
The all-new Fusion offers an unprecedented portfolio of driver assistance and convenience technologies based on sensors, cameras and radar that enable the car to see and respond.
Fusion can help drivers maintain proper lane position, adjust vehicle speed to changing traffic conditions, identify suitable parking spaces and help park, even aiding drivers backing out of parking space where visibility is obstructed. Specific technologies include:
* Lane Keeping System: This class-exclusive technology consists of three elements to help a driver maintain proper lane position. Using a small, forward-facing camera behind the inside rearview mirror, the system ?looks? down the road, monitoring lane lines to determine that the car is on course. The system will alert a driver if drowsiness or erratic lane-keeping is detected. The second element warns a driver with a steering wheel vibration if the Fusion drifts too close to lane markings. Finally, lane keeping aid will actually apply pressure on the steering to help bring the car back into proper lane position.
* Adaptive cruise control: Using forward-looking radar, this system ?looks? down the road when activated, slowing the Fusion when slower traffic is detected ahead. Adaptive cruise control enables collision warning with brake support to help slow the car if the potential of a crash is detected.
* Active park assist: Employing sensors, this technology can identify a suitable parallel parking space, calculate the trajectory and steer the car to properly position it within the spot. All a driver need do is operate accelerator and brake pedals.
* Blind Spot Information System (BLIS?) with cross-traffic alert: Sensors in both Fusion rear quarter-panels are able to detect traffic in a driver?s blind spot, providing both audible and visual warnings if traffic ? unseen by the driver ? is detected. BLIS technology enables cross-traffic alert, warning the driver of oncoming traffic when backing out of a parking space with obstructed views, such as between two large vans.
* The power of voice
The all-new Fusion offers the latest iteration of Ford?s award-winning, industry-exclusive SYNC? communications and entertainment system, which enables voice-activated communication through a driver?s mobile phone and interaction with the car?s audio system.
Fusion also offers the latest version of MyFord Touch?, allowing a driver to interact with vehicle systems through voice control, a touch screen tap or a conventional button.
Both SYNC and MyFord Touch ? powered by SYNC ? help reduce the potential for driver distraction through voice-controlled functionality, allowing drivers to keep hands on the wheel and eyes on the road.
Different, by design
?The previous Fusion was an easy purchase for a customer to rationalize,? said Chris Hamilton, chief exterior designer for the next-generation model. ?Our design goal for the new car was to give the mainstream sedan buyer a top-drawer visual experience, adding some emotional appeal to an already sensible choice.?
These five elements provided direction for the design team behind the all-new Fusion:
* Silhouette innovation: Fusion?s sleek profile sets it apart from the powertrain/cabin/trunk ?three-box? designs synonymous with midsize sedans.
* Perceived efficiency: Fusion character lines sweeping to the rear and thin roof pillars suggest the car is nimble and light on its feet.
* Refined surface language: Fusion demonstrates that a tasteful, well-executed design does not require add-ons or visual clutter.
* Technical graphics: Fusion?s functional design elements such as headlamps, LED taillamps and polished exhaust tips communicate enhanced technological capability.
* New face: Fusion signals the next evolution in Ford global design language for midsize cars and smaller
Inside, the new Fusion offers a sporty, driver-oriented environment with next-generation seating that brings expanded functionality. A higher center console supports the driver-centric theme and yields clever storage for items a driver wants to keep handy.
Additional passenger space was designed-in by moving the instrument panel toward the windshield, contributing to the cabin?s airy, open environment. Thinner, lighter frames support comfortable next-generation seats trimmed with fabric using recycled sustainable yarns.
Craftsmanship plus dynamics equals feel
Fusion design delivers on the promise of high visual quality, with improved materials, elevated levels of craftsmanship and attention to detail.
Interior surfaces are softer to the touch and interior and exterior gaps are minimized, while extra care has been taken to upholster or cover each edge and every surface a customer can touch. When the trunk lid is opened, for example, a spring-loaded cover automatically conceals the trunk latch hardware.
?The holistic goal of our craftsmanship process is to see that Fusion not only delivers a superior visual experience but also feels like quality to the customer,? said Adrian Whittle, Fusion chief engineer.
Key contributors to how the Fusion feels are the ride and handling components that maximize vehicle dynamics.
?This really is a driver?s car,? said John Jraiche, program manager. ?Fusion is even more fun to drive with specially tuned electric power-assisted steering (EPAS), a MacPherson strut front suspension and an all-new premium-level multilink rear suspension ? comparable to Audi and BMW configurations.?
Careful tuning by Ford?s vehicle handling and ride team has yielded a Fusion with a dynamic character that will please a well-seasoned enthusiast while increasing the confidence level of less-experienced drivers.
Fusion interior quiet reaches a new level with acoustic underbody shields and weight-saving sound-absorption material; both minimize road and powertrain noise while boosting aerodynamic efficiency to help save fuel. The all-new model adds content such as a full-perimeter hood seal to be among the midsize sedan segment leaders in giving drivers a quiet ride.
Fusion Hybrid and Fusion Energi models also are equipped with active noise control. This feature uses the audio system to mitigate extraneous road noise while enhancing powertrain sounds.
Strength and safety
Fusion is designed with customer safety in mind. Engineers increased its body strength by 10 percent, using more high-strength steels such as boron, and added dual first-row knee airbags and adaptive front airbags that vent and tether to conform to a specific occupant?s size, position and seatbelt usage.
The Fusion safety team targeted top-of-the-line ratings in each public domain safety benchmark, including National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ratings, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety Top Safety Pick and top ratings in world markets where the car will be sold.
The most prominent example is Fusion?s front-end architecture, as the same car must face simultaneous ? and seemingly conflictive ? standards across regions. The car?s front end is equipped to meet head-on and offset barrier standards for North America while still conforming to European standards for pedestrian protection ? thanks to hours of computer modeling and 180 validating crash tests.
Fusion will be produced at Ford?s Hermosillo, Mexico, manufacturing facility, soon adding production at AutoAlliance International Plant in Flat Rock, Mich. The car will appear in Ford showrooms in North America and South America later this year. Mondeo will be introduced next year in Asia and Europe.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6664063839_4977b5570a_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6664071615_eea41f8ca7_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7145/6664074959_5bf59ba6d6_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7150/6663596489_1ffda0010f_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6663887995_83dd005d79_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6663893713_2eb4e55990_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7025/6663268369_8180eca58e_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6663266105_cb95d9cf93_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7153/6663420307_04df296592_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7006/6663417987_47a73ff4ce_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6663422169_d693a32659_b.jpg)
WOW!!! What a stunningly beautiful car!! Wait, did I just say that about a Ford? Yes, I did! :wub:
If Fuel Economy is your thing, this will probably be your mid size car. But It'll be the least powerful car in it's class.
Agenda for Monday: Buy Ford stock...
Wow. I really like that, inside and out.
Quote from: omicron on January 09, 2012, 03:44:16 AM
Wow. I really like that, inside and out.
Yeah, me too. I don't think I've ever seen side by side cup hiolders in a console before, nice touch. I'd certainly consider a 1.6l ecoboost with a manual if I needed to replace the 6.
Also, notice how far forward they've moved the fuel filler door; almost up to the left rear door. Better rear impact safety. I'd bet the fuel tank is pretty far forward as well.
And I don't see an obvious airbag panel on the passenger side.
Ford has hit the ball out of the park with this. As recent as two days ago I was criticizing Ford for their new styling direction, and now they come out with this...damn! It's beautiful. If it still drives like the current one (or better), then this could very well be my wife's next car. She saw the pictures and said, "Oooooooooooh".
An SVT version with AWD and an Ecoboost V6 would be a dream come true with this styling.
It looks like a Jag XF with Maserati taillights.
Not a bad thing.
Huge step down from the current model. It's about as ugly as the current Sonata.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2012, 09:27:19 AM
An SVT version with AWD and an Ecoboost V6 would be a dream come true with this styling.
And would be a great car nobody would buy....
I really like the Mondeo much more. Proportions go a long way. But this is a big improvement over the current one.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on January 09, 2012, 09:35:59 AM
And would be a great car nobody would buy....
I bet they would sell every one they make. SVT has never had a hard time selling any of their high performance creations.
QuoteI really like the Mondeo much more. Proportions go a long way. But this is a big improvement over the current one.
What proportions are you talking about? The headlights are weird and the front end is awfully vanilla.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=26441.msg1646054#msg1646054 date=1326126802
Huge step down from the current model. It's about as ugly as the current Sonata.
Your first impressions are always negative.
Love it :ohyeah:, especially the Aston inspired grille.
The automatic stop-start system is an excellent option and has long been absent from the NA market. It's about time.
(http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20120109&Category=AUTO01&ArtNo=201090353&Ref=V2&Profile=1148&MaxW=600&Border=0)
I'm not a fan of Ford, but wow, that's damn good looking.
Too bad about FordTouch, though. That alone ruins the entire car form me (assuming it's still in it's current, horrendous layout)
Quote from: SVT666 on January 09, 2012, 09:53:50 AM
Your first impressions are always negative.
Not always!
Quote from: Submariner on January 09, 2012, 10:54:21 AM
I'm not a fan of Ford, but wow, that's damn good looking.
Too bad about FordTouch, though. That alone ruins the entire car form me (assuming it's still in it's current, horrendous layout)
Ford is revamping the entire system, but I don't believe MyFordTouch is standard anyway...is it?
Anyone else think it looks a LOT like the XF?
People will mistake it for the Rapide all the time...oh wait, that's the Intrepid.
I like it a lot, and yeah it does have a definite Jaguar/Aston influence.
Considering J Mays is still head of design at Ford and designed several Jags/Aston Martins while he was there, I see where they got the ideas.
Ford doesn't have to worry divisional complaining now that the companies are competitors, instead of part of the same company.
I love everything but the front fascia. Still not keen on the Aston grille on the Focus electric and still unsure of it here.
The rest looks good, though.
That wagon, ohhh myyyyy. :wub:
Quote from: 68_427 on January 08, 2012, 09:10:23 PM
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b7ff27c9-550592.jpg)
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b260f1e9-550593.jpg)
Is this real? Those proportions don't look right, and the front fascia is different too. And those rear haunches are super wide (wider than the production model).
The rear fascia looks awesome, though.
Probably not.
Maybe a Mondeo render?
Quote from: 68_427 on January 09, 2012, 04:03:19 PM
Probably not.
Maybe a Mondeo render?
The Mondeo is the white car in the photos. Ford has the "Mondeo" and Fusion both on display.
Looks great; it's eye-catching without having to resort to being relatively gimmicky like the Sonata. I wonder what the hp ratings are for the new engines.
Quote from: Vinsanity on January 09, 2012, 04:15:39 PM
Looks great; it's eye-catching without having to resort to being relatively gimmicky like the Sonata. I wonder what the hp ratings are for the new engines.
Powertrains could catapult 2013 model to head of efficiency pack (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120109/AUTO01/201090353/1148/auto01/Ford-Fusion-makes-big-leap)
Quote
John Jraiche, who heads gasoline powertrains at Ford, said the four-cylinder, 1.6-liter direct-injection turbocharged EcoBoost engine should get 26 mpg in the city and 37 mpg on the highway, while putting out 179 horsepower.
The premium 2-liter direct-injection turbocharged EcoBoost engine creates 237 horsepower while achieving 25 percent better fuel economy over the outgoing V-6 model, Jraiche said.
That's why the Fusion doesn't even offer a V-6 with the new model rolling out. It has become obsolete. More carmakers will likely follow.
Quote from: Vinsanity on January 09, 2012, 04:15:39 PM
Looks great; it's eye-catching without having to resort to being relatively gimmicky like the Sonata. I wonder what the hp ratings are for the new engines.
Lower than everything else in the class.
New car has potential. I've noticed that auto makers have gone to four cylinders a lot more. The four cylinder has been around a long time. The styling will have to grow us, like fungus.
Quote from: sparkplug on January 09, 2012, 05:59:59 PM
New car has potential. I've noticed that auto makers have gone to four cylinders a lot more. The four cylinder has been around a long time. The styling will have to grow us, like fungus.
They've gone to 4 cyls because they have gov't imposed mandates to meet.
I think they're also going to four-cylinders because people are more interested in fuel economy than they were before. Four-cylinders have also come a long way, power-wise. 20 years ago a base four-cylinder mid-size sedan might have had not much over 100 hp, and a V6 was often between 150 and 200 hp. Now most base four-bangers in mid-size cars are pushing 170-190 hp. V6s still have a generous power advantage but the performance advantage isn't as big as it used to be.
Plus, I mean, who needs 300 hp from a family sedan?
I want that friggin wagon!
Quote from: Catman on January 09, 2012, 07:58:49 PM
I want that friggin wagon!
Me too. Make it AWD with 300 hp, and i'd be very happy.
Quote from: 93JC on January 09, 2012, 07:47:48 PM
I think they're also going to four-cylinders because people are more interested in fuel economy than they were before. Four-cylinders have also come a long way, power-wise. 20 years ago a base four-cylinder mid-size sedan might have had not much over 100 hp, and a V6 was often between 150 and 200 hp. Now most base four-bangers in mid-size cars are pushing 170-190 hp. V6s still have a generous power advantage but the performance advantage isn't as big as it used to be.
Plus, I mean, who needs 300 hp from a family sedan?
Me.
Looks good, but does anybody else see a bit of Mitsubishi Lancer in the nose?
Quote from: Catman on January 09, 2012, 07:58:49 PM
I want that friggin wagon!
Quote from: Rockraven on January 09, 2012, 08:06:12 PM
Me too. Make it AWD with 300 hp, and i'd be very happy.
It's not real....
Quote from: MX793 on January 09, 2012, 08:08:04 PM
Looks good, but does anybody else see a bit of Mitsubishi Lancer in the nose?
A little. And the character line has this annoying decent that really irks me.
Not bad at all. I like the front and side views. Not in love with the ass end but it's not ugly. The interior looks good too. This should be a really good car.
Man it hurts to say that!
Quote from: 93JC on January 09, 2012, 10:39:17 PM
You don't NEED it, you just WANT it. :tounge:
Need = 300 hp. Want = 500 hp.
Whatever. :rolleyes: :lol:
Quote from: omicron on January 09, 2012, 03:44:16 AM
Wow. I really like that, inside and out.
What happened?
You used to be funny, but now you are more like "Fun Bobby" without the alcohol. :huh:
Quote from: thiscarTOTALLYrockslink=topic=26441.msg1645886#msg1645886 date=1326082223
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b7ff27c9-550592.jpg)
(http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Ford-Mondeo-2013-fotoshowImage-b260f1e9-550593.jpg)
This.
I think I could have puppies in this car. :rockon:
It looks like a rapide mated with a lancer... But turned out pretty well
I can't help but notice Cougs' conspicuous absence from this thread.
As with many of Ford's recent efforts; Taurus, Focus, Explorer, Flex; trying too hard with the (sacrificial) styling.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 10, 2012, 11:24:25 PM
As with many of Ford's recent efforts; Taurus, Focus, Explorer, Flex; trying too hard with the (sacrificial) styling.
:nutty:
Quote from: GoCougs on January 10, 2012, 11:24:25 PM
As with many of Ford's recent efforts; Taurus, Focus, Explorer, Flex; trying too hard with the (sacrificial) styling.
You've been inside?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 10, 2012, 11:24:25 PM
As with many of Ford's recent efforts; Taurus, Focus, Explorer, Flex; trying too hard with the (sacrificial) styling.
Sacrificial?
(http://images.thecarconnection.com/sml/2011-honda-accord-sedan-4-door-i4-auto-lx-angular-front-exterior-view_100327674_s.jpg)
(http://www.prlog.org/11458031-2012-honda-civic.jpg)
(http://www.thetorquereport.com/assets_c/2011/08/2012_Honda_Pilot_EX_L-thumb-530x353-14733.jpg)
(http://www.lincah.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2012-Honda-Odyssey-Front-Angle-588x441.jpg)
(http://www.autostylish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2012-Ridgeline-Sport.jpg)
Quote from: GoCougs on January 10, 2012, 11:24:25 PM
As with many of Ford's recent efforts; Taurus, Focus, Explorer, Flex; trying too hard with the (sacrificial) styling.
Oh look who it is, and right on time....late. He didn't disappoint either. He brought his usual anti-Ford BS with him.
Quote from: Catman on January 08, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
(http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/raccoon-cage-fence-do-want-1301677106K.jpg)
D'awwwwwww..... he so cute.
I require an SVT Fusion with manual transes and RWD. Wait... Falcon.
Promising, but the front styling is bordering on being too agressive for a mundane midsizer.
I thought the new front on the Peugeot 407 was awesome at first too, but boy that car aged fast.
Quote from: Raza on January 09, 2012, 09:33:22 AM
Huge step down from the current model. It's about as ugly as the current Sonata.
maybe not intended, but you make another great point, raza. many think the 2013 honda accord coupe look too much like the current generation coupe. yet when copy-cat styling of the sonata (as one example) occurs, there are probably the same numbers of critics not pleased with this approach to redesigning a new vehicle. i have a love-hate feeling of the next generation after time to really study it and still appreciate honda for making a honda look like honda".
Fusion wins best production design award (http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012/01/lexus-lf-lc-ford-fusion-win-auto-show-design-awards/)
QuoteThe new Ford Fusion and the Lexus LF-LC took honors as the best production and best concept cars in the annual Eyes on Design Awards at the 2012 North American International Auto Show.
On the other hand, the Lexus LF-LC looks like a pretty nifty concept design...
(http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Lexus-front-corner-300x145.jpg)
Wait seriously only 4 bangers? What fail.
I thought this turbo 4 nonsense in family sedans would have been dead and buried after the mess Hyundai made of their Sonata turbo, combining the acceleration of a Camry Hybrid and the fuel economy of the Camry V6, what win. After the cluster fuck that is the ecoboost Explorer I thought Ford would have learned from their mistake.
Plus I find it ironic that everyone is so gah gah over what is clearly a slightly updated MK4 Ford Mondeo, a car that's been sold around the world for half a decade. The car was exciting when it was new 5 years ago. It's only exciting to us now because Ford's been screwing their domestic market over, just like they had been with the Focus until the reunification. Like I said before, it's like Ford's been out to an expensive dinner with their mistress (foreign market), and brings the half chewed left overs back to the doting wife (domestic market), and instead of being rightfully angry, she is exclaiming how wonderful husband Ford is, it's sickeningly pathetic.
Well the joke is going to be on Ford in the end, because if the new Focus proved anything, it's that in trying to combine their world and domestic markets, Ford has managed to make cars too European for the Americans, and too cheapified for the Europeans.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 07:49:57 AM
I thought this turbo 4 nonsense in family sedans would have been dead and buried after the mess Hyundai made of their Sonata turbo, combining the acceleration of a Camry Hybrid and the fuel economy of the Camry V6, what win.
Ummmm....what?
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 07:49:57 AM
Wait seriously only 4 bangers? What fail.
I thought this turbo 4 nonsense in family sedans would have been dead and buried after the mess Hyundai made of their Sonata turbo, combining the acceleration of a Camry Hybrid and the fuel economy of the Camry V6, what win. After the cluster fuck that is the ecoboost Explorer I thought Ford would have learned from their mistake.
Plus I find it ironic that everyone is so gah gah over what is clearly a slightly updated MK4 Ford Mondeo, a car that's been sold around the world for half a decade. The car was exciting when it was new 5 years ago. It's only exciting to us now because Ford's been screwing their domestic market over, just like they had been with the Focus until the reunification. Like I said before, it's like Ford's been out to an expensive dinner with their mistress (foreign market), and brings the half chewed left overs back to the doting wife (domestic market), and instead of being rightfully angry, she is exclaiming how wonderful husband Ford is, it's sickeningly pathetic.
Well the joke is going to be on Ford in the end, because if the new Focus proved anything, it's that in trying to combine their world and domestic markets, Ford has managed to make cars too European for the Americans, and too cheapified for the Europeans.
And it's still doing well in both markets.
Quote from: ifcar on January 11, 2012, 07:53:02 AM
Ummmm....what?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2011_hyundai_sonata_se_vs_2012_toyota_camry_se_vs_2012_volkswagen_passat_vr6_sel_comparison/specs.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2011_hyundai_sonata_hybrid_vs_2012_toyota_camry_hybrid_vs_2012_volkswagen_passat_tdi_comparison/specs.html
Sonata 2.0T: 23.3 mpg, 91.5 mph trap speed
Camry V6: 24.7 mpg, 100.6 mph trap speed
Camry Hybrid: 36.9mpg, 91.5 mph trap speed
I was being generous, the 2.0T has WORSE fuel economy than the Camry V6, and accelerates like the Camry Hybrid.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2012, 07:57:12 AM
And it's still doing well in both markets.
And the Taurus did very well against the Camcords back in 1996, when it was complete shit. Look at it it's sales now. If you screw up a mainstream car, you don't pay for it immediately because the momentum of consumers continue buying, you pay for it hard down the line.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 08:10:44 AM
And the Taurus did very well against the Camcords back in 1996, when it was complete shit. Look at it it's sales now. If you screw up a mainstream car, you don't pay for it immediately because the momentum of consumers continue buying, you pay for it hard down the line.
And the focus (or any Ford on sale) is by no means a bad car.
That sentence is more valid for Honda.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 07:49:57 AM
Wait seriously only 4 bangers? What fail.
I thought this turbo 4 nonsense in family sedans would have been dead and buried after the mess Hyundai made of their Sonata turbo, combining the acceleration of a Camry Hybrid and the fuel economy of the Camry V6, what win. After the cluster fuck that is the ecoboost Explorer I thought Ford would have learned from their mistake.
Plus I find it ironic that everyone is so gah gah over what is clearly a slightly updated MK4 Ford Mondeo, a car that's been sold around the world for half a decade. The car was exciting when it was new 5 years ago. It's only exciting to us now because Ford's been screwing their domestic market over, just like they had been with the Focus until the reunification. Like I said before, it's like Ford's been out to an expensive dinner with their mistress (foreign market), and brings the half chewed left overs back to the doting wife (domestic market), and instead of being rightfully angry, she is exclaiming how wonderful husband Ford is, it's sickeningly pathetic.
Well the joke is going to be on Ford in the end, because if the new Focus proved anything, it's that in trying to combine their world and domestic markets, Ford has managed to make cars too European for the Americans, and too cheapified for the Europeans.
Yeah, one bit player's ugly car with a bad engine definitely should dictate what everyone else does in the market. And 0-60 in 6.2 seconds to 60 isn't exactly slow. And it's certainly not the 8+ seconds it takes a Camry hybrid to get to 60, which is, we should note, pretty damn quick for a hybrid. It wasn't that long ago that 6 and a bit seconds to 60 was the hallmark of a car with a V8, not a four cylinder. Seriously, sometimes you guys forget how much progress we've made. A few years ago, V8 luxury sedans were doing 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, with a cost of 2-3 times as much as a new Sonata. And, 10 seconds to 60 in a hybrid was unheard of, let alone rare. 6.2 to 60 and 33mpg highway shouldn't disappoint
anyone buying a fucking midsize sedan. That's what we're talking about.
Midsize family sedans. Not sports cars. Not luxury cars. Run-of-the-mill, for-the-masses transportation
Personally, I don't know what your beef with Ford is, but you can't seem to make up your mind about why you hate them. First, you compare them to a cheating husband, saying they've been ignoring the domestic market by selling us shit cars for years (yet, still they were good enough to avoid having to be bailed out with taxpayer money), and you then criticize them for not doing that with the new Focus. So they can't win in your book. Sell a world car, it's not bad enough for us or good enough for the Europeans. Sell two different, market-focused vehicles, and they're rapists in your eyes.
Did someone in the Ford family run over your dog? And then back up over it? Then cook it and not let you have any?
IIRC, the new Malibu is four-cylinder only upon introduction, too.
Quote from: Raza on January 11, 2012, 08:15:48 AM
Yeah, one bit player's ugly car with a bad engine definitely should dictate what everyone else does in the market. And 0-60 in 6.2 seconds to 60 isn't exactly slow. And it's certainly not the 8+ seconds it takes a Camry hybrid to get to 60, which is, we should note, pretty damn quick for a hybrid. It wasn't that long ago that 6 and a bit seconds to 60 was the hallmark of a car with a V8, not a four cylinder. Seriously, sometimes you guys forget how much progress we've made. A few years ago, V8 luxury sedans were doing 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, with a cost of 2-3 times as much as a new Sonata. And, 10 seconds to 60 in a hybrid was unheard of, let alone rare. 6.2 to 60 and 33mpg highway shouldn't disappoint anyone buying a fucking midsize sedan. That's what we're talking about. Midsize family sedans. Not sports cars. Not luxury cars. Run-of-the-mill, for-the-masses transportation
Personally, I don't know what your beef with Ford is, but you can't seem to make up your mind about why you hate them. First, you compare them to a cheating husband, saying they've been ignoring the domestic market by selling us shit cars for years (yet, still they were good enough to avoid having to be bailed out with taxpayer money), and you then criticize them for not doing that with the new Focus. So they can't win in your book. Sell a world car, it's not bad enough for us or good enough for the Europeans. Sell two different, market-focused vehicles, and they're rapists in your eyes.
Did someone in the Ford family run over your dog? And then back up over it? Then cook it and not let you have any?
Go read those comparo tests, the Sonata turbo runs pretty much exactly on par with the hybrid Camry while getting worse mpg than the Camry V6. Numbers don't lie.
Maybe Ford will do better, but considering the eco-boost Explorer is one of the worst reviewed cars in recent history, I'm not holding out much hope.
The Ford fan boyism on this site is overwhelming. Everyone is exclaiming how amazing this "new" Fusion is, when it's just a refreshed MK4 Mondeo. I think a lot of the fanboyism comes from Ford not having to get bailed out, but it was at the cost of selling Volvo, Jaguar, and Land Rover, all the brands that were worth something. Recently Ford's pulled blinds over people's eyes with edgy styling to cover up the fact that their cars aren't actually that well packaged and designed these days. Everything built off the Taurus platform now has full size exteriors with midsize interiors. The last good mainstream Ford was probably the Flex. Besides the Mustangs and F series, I can't think of a Ford I would actually consider buying, especially as Lincoln is now their sole upscale brand, and is a joke.
And I've got nothing against Ford selling a world car, it's just that they didn't execute the Focus very well.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 07:49:57 AM
Wait seriously only 4 bangers? What fail.
I thought this turbo 4 nonsense in family sedans would have been dead and buried after the mess Hyundai made of their Sonata turbo, combining the acceleration of a Camry Hybrid and the fuel economy of the Camry V6, what win. After the cluster fuck that is the ecoboost Explorer I thought Ford would have learned from their mistake.
Plus I find it ironic that everyone is so gah gah over what is clearly a slightly updated MK4 Ford Mondeo, a car that's been sold around the world for half a decade. The car was exciting when it was new 5 years ago. It's only exciting to us now because Ford's been screwing their domestic market over, just like they had been with the Focus until the reunification. Like I said before, it's like Ford's been out to an expensive dinner with their mistress (foreign market), and brings the half chewed left overs back to the doting wife (domestic market), and instead of being rightfully angry, she is exclaiming how wonderful husband Ford is, it's sickeningly pathetic.
Well the joke is going to be on Ford in the end, because if the new Focus proved anything, it's that in trying to combine their world and domestic markets, Ford has managed to make cars too European for the Americans, and too cheapified for the Europeans.
Your screed is so full of wrong I don't know where to begin!
I was going to pick apart each of your points but I see Raza has already done an excellent job of doing so.
So which member of the Ford family ran over your dog, anyway? I bet it was Henry II. According to Iacocca, he was a real bastard. ;)
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 08:07:13 AM
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2011_hyundai_sonata_se_vs_2012_toyota_camry_se_vs_2012_volkswagen_passat_vr6_sel_comparison/specs.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2011_hyundai_sonata_hybrid_vs_2012_toyota_camry_hybrid_vs_2012_volkswagen_passat_tdi_comparison/specs.html
Sonata 2.0T: 23.3 mpg, 91.5 mph trap speed
Camry V6: 24.7 mpg, 100.6 mph trap speed
Camry Hybrid: 36.9mpg, 91.5 mph trap speed
I was being generous, the 2.0T has WORSE fuel economy than the Camry V6, and accelerates like the Camry Hybrid.
So because one car with a turbo in one review's acceleration track testing (which isn't in line with most others), the entire concept of a small turbocharged engine to deliver power when you want it and fuel economy when you don't doesn't work. Got it.
Quote from: ifcar on January 11, 2012, 09:07:13 AM
So because one car with a turbo in one review's acceleration track testing (which isn't in line with most others), the entire concept of a small turbocharged engine to deliver power when you want it and fuel economy when you don't doesn't work. Got it.
Find me a current example where it does work in a mainstream bread and butter Camcord type sedan. One example is pretty relevant if it's pretty much the only one.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:18:34 AM
Find me a current example where it does work in a mainstream bread and butter Camcord type sedan. One example is pretty relevant if it's pretty much the only one.
The majority of all midsizers sold are naturally aspirated 4 cylinders. I think the new Fusion will do fine.
Quote from: ifcar on January 11, 2012, 09:07:13 AM
So because one car with a turbo in one review's acceleration track testing (which isn't in line with most others), the entire concept of a small turbocharged engine to deliver power when you want it and fuel economy when you don't doesn't work. Got it.
Yes, +2.3l
I had a small four cylinder turbo; 200 hp, 250lb.ft. 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds (if I remember correctly) and ran the quarter in about 15.
The best part? 30mpg highway 22 city with 3.75:1 gearing.
Yeah, there is no way a small turbo four banger could ever be useful.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:18:34 AM
Find me a current example where it does work in a mainstream bread and butter Camcord type sedan. One example is pretty relevant if it's pretty much the only one.
Okay, Optima/Sonata.
It tends to get low mileage from the motoring press because if you're always on the boost, you don't get the mileage advantage. (I got high 20s for both the 2.0 and 2.4-liters.) It's great for someone who isn't always lead-footing it but who likes having extra power available. And you quoted the slowest time I've found in your effort to prove that it's not quick enough.
A turbo is also less expensive than a hybrid system, though the new Camry's does appear to be particularly well executed.
Quote from: Madman on January 11, 2012, 08:49:25 AM
Your screed is so full of wrong I don't know where to begin!
I was going to pick apart each of your points but I see Raza has already done an excellent job of doing so.
So which member of the Ford family ran over your dog, anyway? I bet it was Henry II. According to Iacocca, he was a real bastard. ;)
And the Ford circle jerk continues. Instead of me having to justify why I don't go gah gah over these new under engineered, over styled Fords, why don't you all tell me why you like them so much.
I suspect a lot of it (nearly all of it) has to do with how they look. Everyone on this board talks about how utterly awful the 2012 Civic is. What they don't realize is that the Ford Focus and Civic pretty much go back and forth in terms of comparison tests, with the Ford winning some and the Civic others.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1107_best_selling_compact_sedan_comparison/viewall.html
I think this statement below from the review sums up pretty much everything about the new Fords.
"The Ford's polarizing style won back a few fans, like Kiino, who lauded the in-your-face design and Vader-esque front end, but also decried the interior, which ranks dimensionally smallest. "It feels tight to me-not sure the packaging is that stellar," he opined. "A gimmicky car, at least in terms of design."
You could apply this statement to the Ford Taurus, Ford Explorer and probably this new Fusion considering how sloped that rear roof line is. I think Ford learned this lesson from Chevy's success with the Camaro. Consumers care about styling more than they care about usable space and sensible packaging. It's a good way to generate sales upfront. It's seriously hypocritical when Ford fan boys rip on the style over function of the Camaro when it has become Ford's mission objective for all their mainstream cars (high belt line, small windows, small interior space).
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:33:25 AM
And the Ford circle jerk continues. Instead of me having to justify why I don't go gah gah over these new under engineered, over styled Fords, why don't you all tell me why you like them so much.
:facepalm:
If you're going to pick on Ford powertrains, go for the transmissions, not the concept of a turbo. There's plenty of things wrong with the latest Fords without having to invent an issue.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:33:25 AM
And the Ford circle jerk continues. Instead of me having to justify why I don't go gah gah over these new under engineered, over styled Fords, why don't you all tell me why you like them so much.
I suspect a lot of it (nearly all of it) has to do with how they look. Everyone on this board talks about how utterly awful the 2012 Civic is. What they don't realize is that the Ford Focus and Civic pretty much go back and forth in terms of comparison tests, with the Ford winning some and the Civic others.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1107_best_selling_compact_sedan_comparison/viewall.html
I think this statement below from the review sums up pretty much everything about the new Fords.
"The Ford's polarizing style won back a few fans, like Kiino, who lauded the in-your-face design and Vader-esque front end, but also decried the interior, which ranks dimensionally smallest. "It feels tight to me-not sure the packaging is that stellar," he opined. "A gimmicky car, at least in terms of design."
You could apply this statement to the Ford Taurus, Ford Explorer and probably this new Fusion considering how sloped that rear roof line is. I think Ford learned this lesson from Chevy's success with the Camaro. Consumers care about styling more than they care about usable space and sensible packaging. It's a good way to generate sales upfront. It's seriously hypocritical when Ford fan boys rip on the style over function of the Camaro when it has become Ford's mission objective for all their mainstream cars (high belt line, small windows, small interior space).
None of Ford's cars are executed as poorly (in terms of packaging) as the Camaro. Not even close. The Camaro's forward visibility is even compromised and that is hard to do.
Quote from: hounddog on January 11, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
Yes, +2.3l
I had a small four cylinder turbo; 200 hp, 250lb.ft. 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds (if I remember correctly) and ran the quarter in about 15.
The best part? 30mpg highway 22 city with 3.75:1 gearing.
Yeah, there is no way a small turbo four banger could ever be useful.
So you are telling me you had a car that was significantly slower than the V6 Camry, and posted nearly identical fuel economy numbers.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2011_hyundai_sonata_se_vs_2012_toyota_camry_se_vs_2012_volkswagen_passat_vr6_sel_comparison/specs.html
Thanks for proving my point I guess.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2012, 09:37:51 AM
None of Ford's cars are executed as poorly (in terms of packaging) as the Camaro. Not even close. The Camaro's forward visibility is even compromised and that is hard to do.
The Camaro is also not a primary people mover like the Taurus, Explorer, and Focus are designed to be.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:33:25 AM
And the Ford circle jerk continues. Instead of me having to justify why I don't go gah gah over these new under engineered, over styled Fords, why don't you all tell me why you like them so much.
If you'll notice, I was critical of the new Fusion's styling as well and remain unimpressed by this new model. And yet, only one post about that; Craig mentioning that I'm always negative about new cars. Possibly true. However, the vitriolic diatribe that you went on is why you're seeing such a reaction.
I doubt the new fusion will be just a refresh of the mk4 Mondeo, which has been around quite a while here. If it is, it will probably hurt sales badly since Euro buyers generally value new engineering over a slight price advantage.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:38:20 AM
So you are telling me you had a car that was significantly slower than the V6 Camry, and posted nearly identical fuel economy numbers.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1112_2011_hyundai_sonata_se_vs_2012_toyota_camry_se_vs_2012_volkswagen_passat_vr6_sel_comparison/specs.html
Thanks for proving my point I guess.
Yes, in 1986. ;)
Sort of an anti-point for your argument.
Quote from: hounddog on January 11, 2012, 09:54:41 AM
Yes, in 1986. ;)
Sort of an anti-point for your argument.
And I bet it also weighed next to nothing.
Quote from: Raza on January 11, 2012, 09:53:35 AM
If you'll notice, I was critical of the new Fusion's styling as well and remain unimpressed by this new model. And yet, only one post about that; Craig mentioning that I'm always negative about new cars. Possibly true. However, the vitriolic diatribe that you went on is why you're seeing such a reaction.
I'm all about the vitriolic diatribes. Yes I did notice that the mob descended upon you and any dissenters to the Ford worship on this forum. That's why I was surprised you were the first to respond to my vitriolic diatribe. I figured SVT went over to your house immediately after your post and converted you at gunpoint.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:59:35 AM
And I bet it also weighed next to nothing.
3,100 and change.
1986 Ford Mustang SVO.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 10:02:38 AM
I'm all about the vitriolic diatribes. Yes I did notice that the mob descended upon you and any dissenters to the Ford worship on this forum. That's why I was surprised you were the first to respond to my vitriolic diatribe. I figured SVT went over to your house immediately after your post and converted you at gunpoint.
Perhaps it has more to do with the level of excrement you are shoveling more than the fact you dislike the car?
Quote from: hounddog on January 11, 2012, 10:02:56 AM
3,100 and change.
1986 Ford Mustang SVO.
http://mustangs.about.com/od/fuelmileagestatistics/a/1986-mileage.htm
That car was still based off of the older economy rating system. Converted to new standards, with the Turbo it was only rated at 18/24. The highway fuel economy was really no better than than the V8 at the time.
Quote from: hounddog on January 11, 2012, 10:10:05 AM
Perhaps it has more to do with the level of excrement you are shoveling more than the fact you dislike the car?
It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 10:16:18 AM
http://mustangs.about.com/od/fuelmileagestatistics/a/1986-mileage.htm
That car was still based off of the older economy rating system. Converted to new standards, with the Turbo it was only rated at 18/24. The highway fuel economy was really no better than than the V8 at the time.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Good one.
Keep chucking.....
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:33:25 AM
And the Ford circle jerk continues. Instead of me having to justify why I don't go gah gah over these new under engineered, over styled Fords, why don't you all tell me why you like them so much.
Considering that there are only about 3.5 serious Ford fans on this board, I take it as a testiment to the significant improvement in the brand over the past 5 or so years that so many are now impressed with Ford's new products. On the other hand, you seem to be looking through some pretty distorted lenses if you cannot see such improvements; especially in the mechanical technology and application thereof.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 10:02:38 AM
I'm all about the vitriolic diatribes. Yes I did notice that the mob descended upon you and any dissenters to the Ford worship on this forum. That's why I was surprised you were the first to respond to my vitriolic diatribe. I figured SVT went over to your house immediately after your post and converted you at gunpoint.
It's a shame we don't have as many people who'll correct misinformation spouted against other brands, then.
:popcorn:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 11, 2012, 10:25:52 AM
Considering that there are only about 3.5 serious Ford fans on this board, I take it as a testiment to the significant improvement in the brand over the past 5 or so years that so many are now impressed with Ford's new products. On the other hand, you seem to be looking through some pretty distorted lenses if you cannot see such improvements; especially in the mechanical technology and application thereof.
Actually I didn't really mind Fords before, when they were coming up with cars like the Freestyle, Edge, Flex, etc. They were useful cars that were decent, and under appreciated. The first Fusion was definitely better than Chrysler or GM's answer to the imports. The original Focus was a great little car.
Quote from: hounddog on January 11, 2012, 10:23:45 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Good one.
Keep chucking.....
Actually, he's right.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 10:34:03 AM
Actually I didn't really mind Fords before, when they were coming up with cars like the Freestyle, Edge, Flex, etc. They were useful cars that were decent, and under appreciated. The first Fusion was definitely better than Chrysler or GM's answer to the imports. The original Focus was a great little car.
I agree that the original Focus was a step ahead of the competition. They were making rubbish before then; as were most of the manufacturers other than certain imports. It was only then that they started to make some moves in the right direction using platform technology from Germany and small engine technology from Japan (Mazda) and Europe (Duratec). This has helped them considerably in their recovery. Now even NA are producing excellent products based on the evolution of these products. As for design, although we all a common basis of attraction, it is, somewhat, subjective.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 10:02:38 AM
I'm all about the vitriolic diatribes. Yes I did notice that the mob descended upon you and any dissenters to the Ford worship on this forum. That's why I was surprised you were the first to respond to my vitriolic diatribe. I figured SVT went over to your house immediately after your post and converted you at gunpoint.
No mob descended on him. All I said was that he always dislikes new cars and then eventually comes around on them. In fact, I have been highly critical of Ford lately for their styling direction and packaging. The Fusion happens to be damn sexy and I like it. I trashed the new Taurus after I had it for a week, the Explorer's styling is ho-hum and I am very disturbed by it being a car based crossover now, the new Escape's styling blows, no new Ranger is fucked up, and the new Focus is nice and all, but the styling is a little over the top and is nowhere near as fun as the old one. Despite all this Ford is doing extremely well right now, and it looks like they pulled their heads out of their collective asses when they styled this new Fusion. It's hot.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 10:02:38 AM
I'm all about the vitriolic diatribes. Yes I did notice that the mob descended upon you and any dissenters to the Ford worship on this forum. That's why I was surprised you were the first to respond to my vitriolic diatribe. I figured SVT went over to your house immediately after your post and converted you at gunpoint.
I also defended the Sonata, which I hate. I right wrongs, no matter my personal feelings.
And it was one guy pointing out that I'm always negative about new cars. I usually am. But that's because new cars generally suck.
Quote from: hounddog on January 11, 2012, 09:25:54 AM
Yes, +2.3l
I had a small four cylinder turbo; 200 hp, 250lb.ft. 0-60 in about 6.5 seconds (if I remember correctly) and ran the quarter in about 15.
The best part? 30mpg highway 22 city with 3.75:1 gearing.
Yeah, there is no way a small turbo four banger could ever be useful.
No.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=26441.msg1647301#msg1647301 date=1326305203
I also defended the Sonata, which I hate. I right wrongs, no matter my personal feelings.
And it was one guy pointing out that I'm always negative about new cars. I usually am. But that's because new cars generally suck.
Yeah, but you have changed your opinion on some of them, like the new Mustang.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
Yeah, but you have changed your opinion on some of them, like the new Mustang.
That's true. But the rear plastic on the Mustang still annoys me, especially in brighter colors where it's more evident.
I think we?ve been here many times ? gas turbo motors aren?t more efficient. Mag racing EPA figures doesn?t cut it ? and again also discussed countless times, that the test exists to be gamed. The Sonata is but one of many examples of gas turbo motors not outperforming their N/A competition in either efficiency or performance.
As to the Fusion, meh, the judgment stands. Ford is taking too many risks on styling and it?s not boding well ? the new Fusion is bound to go the way of the new Focus. The reliance on turbo motors ad naseum is also not a good idea ? enter the disastrous Ecoboost Explorer.
And 565 is 100% right about the Camaro. It is a well-executed (er, best executed) car for the segment and otherwise a smash success. There is no counter argument here, unless of course you just hate the Camaro and suffering from PTSD. Chevy played it right ? it saved the risky styling for when it counts (Camaro) and went more mainstream when it counts less (Impala, Malibu, Cruze).
Ford is now only reaping Mulally?s leadership efforts in full force, and based on new and recent efforts, it?s showing that Ford needs a tried-n-true product guy at the helm, or at least in charge of product development. Mullay?s a business/sales guy, and they tend to make the worst long term CEOs/business leaders for retail product companies, when left unchecked.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
only in Cougstopia!
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2012, 12:00:11 PM
I think we?ve been here many times ? gas turbo motors aren?t more efficient. Mag racing EPA figures doesn?t cut it ? and again also discussed countless times, that the test exists to be gamed. The Sonata is but one of many examples of gas turbo motors not outperforming their N/A competition in either efficiency or performance.
As to the Fusion, meh, the judgment stands. Ford is taking too many risks on styling and it?s not boding well ? the new Fusion is bound to go the way of the new Focus. The reliance on turbo motors ad naseum is also not a good idea ? enter the disastrous Ecoboost Explorer.
And 565 is 100% right about the Camaro. It is a well-executed (er, best executed) car for the segment and otherwise a smash success. There is no counter argument here, unless of course you just hate the Camaro and suffering from PTSD. Chevy played it right ? it saved the risky styling for when it counts (Camaro) and went more mainstream when it counts less (Impala, Malibu, Cruze).
Ford is now only reaping Mulally?s leadership efforts in full force, and based on new and recent efforts, it?s showing that Ford needs a tried-n-true product guy at the helm, or at least in charge of product development. Mullay?s a business/sales guy, and they tend to make the worst long term CEOs/business leaders for retail product companies, when left unchecked.
:facepalm:
Quote from: ChrisV on September 11, 2009, 06:32:57 PM
You really don't know shit. And I say that in the nicest possible way.
New Focus is a hit. New Explorer is a hit. EcoBoost F-150 is a hit. Troll. I won't even comment on the Camaro because you haven't driven it and everyone who has disagrees with you. Ford is kicking ass right now with the exception of the Flex. Personally, I don't like much of the new Ford lineup but I can't deny their success.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2012, 12:00:11 PM
As to the Fusion, meh, the judgment stands. Ford is taking too many risks on styling and it’s not boding well – the new Fusion is bound to go the way of the new Focus. The reliance on turbo motors ad naseum is also not a good idea – enter the disastrous Ecoboost Explorer.
And 565 is 100% right about the Camaro. It is a well-executed (er, best executed) car for the segment and otherwise a smash success. There is no counter argument here, unless of course you just hate the Camaro and suffering from PTSD. Chevy played it right – it saved the risky styling for when it counts (Camaro) and went more mainstream when it counts less (Impala, Malibu, Cruze).
Huh? Even if the new Fusion turns out to be a piece of crap, at least it will be an attractive piece of crap. The new Malibu looks nice, but the Fusion's styling will catch a lot of eyes from people who need a practical sedan, but want something that looks fresh. The Cruze seems like a nice car, but styling isn't its strong suit, IMO. And I'm going to pretend that you didn't introduce the Impala into the discussion.
As for the Camaro, as much as I love that car, it IS in fact a compromised design. Its underpinnings were taken from a full-size sedan, for crying out loud.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 08:39:20 AM
The Ford fan boyism on this site is overwhelming. Everyone is exclaiming how amazing this "new" Fusion is, when it's just a refreshed MK4 Mondeo.
No, it's not. No panels are shared between the two. The new car is also bigger than the old one. Stylisitcally, it's close to the Mondeo, but that's about it.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 08:39:20 AM
And I've got nothing against Ford selling a world car, it's just that they didn't execute the Focus very well.
Drive one then say that.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 09:33:25 AM
And the Ford circle jerk continues. Instead of me having to justify why I don't go gah gah over these new under engineered, over styled Fords, why don't you all tell me why you like them so much.
I suspect a lot of it (nearly all of it) has to do with how they look. Everyone on this board talks about how utterly awful the 2012 Civic is. What they don't realize is that the Ford Focus and Civic pretty much go back and forth in terms of comparison tests, with the Ford winning some and the Civic others.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1107_best_selling_compact_sedan_comparison/viewall.html
I think this statement below from the review sums up pretty much everything about the new Fords.
"The Ford's polarizing style won back a few fans, like Kiino, who lauded the in-your-face design and Vader-esque front end, but also decried the interior, which ranks dimensionally smallest. "It feels tight to me-not sure the packaging is that stellar," he opined. "A gimmicky car, at least in terms of design."
You could apply this statement to the Ford Taurus, Ford Explorer and probably this new Fusion considering how sloped that rear roof line is. I think Ford learned this lesson from Chevy's success with the Camaro. Consumers care about styling more than they care about usable space and sensible packaging. It's a good way to generate sales upfront. It's seriously hypocritical when Ford fan boys rip on the style over function of the Camaro when it has become Ford's mission objective for all their mainstream cars (high belt line, small windows, small interior space).
Why do you use Motortrend, a magazine who is notorious for schizophrenic reviews? They reviewed a 2.0T Explorer, and slammed it for having quality issues, when it was a pre-production mule. They did a comparo and named the CX9 the best CUV, but only talked about driving dynamics.
Besides, although the Focus is smaller inside than some of it's competitors, it's not as small as you make it to be. It also picks up in other areas (interior quality, and design as well as driving dynamics) where other competitors fall off.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2012, 12:00:11 PM
As to the Fusion, meh, the judgment stands. Ford is taking too many risks on styling and it?s not boding well ? the new Fusion is bound to go the way of the new Focus.
How can you say this when literally not a single member of the boards has been inside or driven the car?
Quote from: Vinsanity on January 11, 2012, 12:28:44 PM
Huh? Even if the new Fusion turns out to be a piece of crap, at least it will be an attractive piece of crap. The new Malibu looks nice, but the Fusion's styling will catch a lot of eyes from people who need a practical sedan, but want something that looks fresh. The Cruze seems like a nice car, but styling isn't its strong suit, IMO. And I'm going to pretend that you didn't introduce the Impala into the discussion.
As for the Camaro, as much as I love that car, it IS in fact a compromised design. Its underpinnings were taken from a full-size sedan, for crying out loud.
Remember, we're talking to someone who thinks this is the bees knees in regards to styling and performance.
(http://www.driving.ca/5545356.bin?size=620x400)
Quote from: Vinsanity on January 11, 2012, 12:28:44 PM
Huh? Even if the new Fusion turns out to be a piece of crap, at least it will be an attractive piece of crap. The new Malibu looks nice, but the Fusion's styling will catch a lot of eyes from people who need a practical sedan, but want something that looks fresh. The Cruze seems like a nice car, but styling isn't its strong suit, IMO. And I'm going to pretend that you didn't introduce the Impala into the discussion.
As for the Camaro, as much as I love that car, it IS in fact a compromised design. Its underpinnings were taken from a full-size sedan, for crying out loud.
It doesn't really look attractive IMO. Too much hanging below the belt line in Taurus-like fashion, especially the front end, and small looking wheels/tires. Also, the "4-door coupe" fad has passed for the most part - that is so 2008. The Sonata already milked this I think. Ford.com home screen:
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9652/fordw.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/fordw.png/)
Also look at the interior - the disastrous MyTouch and some sort of MMI interface, which has also not been received well in other vehicles (admittedly that may be an upscale option though).
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4849/ford2.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/ford2.png/)
Of course the Camaro is a compromised design, and lo and behold, it's a runaway success and best seller in class. But that's what that highly unique class needs - daring and risk. To compete with Camries and Accords? Nah, not so much. Risk taking has its advantages, but it also has its limits.
By the same token, the Malibu looks pretty bad in comparison to the Fusion, or even the old Malibu.
The design of the Fusion is not risky in the slightest. Looks like the old Mondeo but updated.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2012, 12:38:55 PM
Remember, we're talking to someone who thinks this is the bees knees in regards to styling and performance.
(http://www.driving.ca/5545356.bin?size=620x400)
I honestly like that more than the Fusion. In regards to styling.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2012, 12:38:55 PM
Remember, we're talking to someone who thinks this is the bees knees in regards to styling and performance.
(http://www.driving.ca/5545356.bin?size=620x400)
Ha, ha. There is irony in your ignorance. Do you recognize that at least?
Quote from: 68_427 on January 11, 2012, 12:48:08 PM
I honestly like that more than the Fusion. In regards to styling.
It looks pretty boring, and the proportions are whack. Stance is fairly tippy, and the profile is pretty boring.
It looks decent enough, and in person it's OK. The Camry isn't an ugly car, but there's nothing about it that makes anyone smile.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2012, 12:48:26 PM
Ha, ha. There is irony in your ignorance. Do you recognize that at least?
You really think the Camry is better looking?
Quote from: GoCougs on January 11, 2012, 12:44:45 PM
It doesn't really look attractive IMO. Too much hanging below the belt line in Taurus-like fashion, especially the front end, and small looking wheels/tires. Also, the "4-door coupe" fad has passed for the most part - that is so 2008. The Sonata already milked this I think. Ford.com home screen:
Also look at the interior - the disastrous MyTouch and some sort of MMI interface, which has also not been received well in other vehicles (admittedly that may be an upscale option though).
Of course the Camaro is a compromised design, and lo and behold, it's a runaway success and best seller in class. But that's what that highly unique class needs - daring and risk. To compete with Camries and Accords? Nah, not so much. Risk taking has its advantages, but it also has its limits.
You should stop typing because you're doing nothing but make yourself look stupid.
Ill agree the Camry is boring, but I think the fusion is ugly.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 11, 2012, 01:03:30 PM
Ill agree the Camry is boring, but I think the fusion is ugly.
In what respect? I'm curious because it has found favour with those who judge the industry.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 11, 2012, 01:03:30 PM
Ill agree the Camry is boring, but I think the fusion is ugly.
The current Fusion? It looks so good!
(http://www.2011fordfusionpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2011-Ford-Fusion-Pictures-11.jpg)
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
Drive one then say that.
Ford didn't execute the new Focus very well. (Drove two.)
Interior space and user-friendliness and the automatic transmission are at the bottom of the class, and it's expensive. It's neither consistently competent nor outstanding at a particular niche.
Up 'til now, I've found Fusion styling to be a little on the brash side but, as things go, they may have been making a statement..."look, I'm here". The style has now matured into a look that says..."I'm grown up a bit now, and I'm looking sexy".
Quote from: Raza on January 11, 2012, 01:10:46 PM
The current Fusion? It looks so good!
(http://www.2011fordfusionpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/2011-Ford-Fusion-Pictures-11.jpg)
No, the new one. I like the current one as well.
Those who have seen the 2013 Fusion in person say it's sexy as all hell. It won the design award for gawd's sake.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
Drive one then say that.
Why do you use Motortrend, a magazine who is notorious for schizophrenic reviews? They reviewed a 2.0T Explorer, and slammed it for having quality issues, when it was a pre-production mule.
I have driven a Focus. One of the med students I did an away rotation with had one as a rental for an entire month. Everyone involved with the dual clutch gearbox should be lined up against a wall and shot. Actually I was eager to try it when he got it because I heard great things about how they drove. The first thing he said to me as he handed me the keys was that he already started to hate the car after 1 week.
Also you have it wrong, the pre-production Explorer wasn't for the ecoboost, but rather the V6 model they tested before.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1108_ford_explorer_ecoboost_test/
The ecoboost failed on sheer badness even without quality issues. Also it's not like Motortrend could have gone out to buy a pre-production Explorer, it's the one that Ford provided for them. One expects automakers to put their best foot forward in a review, and Motortrend has to make do with what Ford sends them.
Quote from: 565 on January 11, 2012, 03:18:13 PM
I have driven a Focus. One of the med students I did an away rotation with had one as a rental for an entire month. Everyone involved with the dual clutch gearbox should be lined up against a wall and shot. Actually I was eager to try it when he got it because I heard great things about how they drove. The first thing he said to me as he handed me the keys was that he already started to hate the car after 1 week.
The transmission issues are all in the programming and Ford has installed/installing a new program on all new Focuses and anyone who has already bought one can go into any Ford dealer and they will provide the new programming free of charge.
QuoteAlso you have it wrong, the pre-production Explorer wasn't for the ecoboost, but rather the V6 model they tested before.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/1108_ford_explorer_ecoboost_test/
The ecoboost failed on sheer badness even without quality issues. Also it's not like Motortrend could have gone out to buy a pre-production Explorer, it's the one that Ford provided for them. One expects automakers to put their best foot forward in a review, and Motortrend has to make do with what Ford sends them.
Having driven a new Explorer, their complaints are almost completely unfounded. It might not be as roomy as it should be considering the exterior dimensions, but it is a very good car. I don't know why this guy has such a hate-on for it, but it is very good. There's a reason it's the best selling car in it's class once again. Remember that I hate the fact that it's a crossover, I don't like the styling, and I'm horrified at the sheer size of the thing compared to my Explorer.
The wagon is gorgeous. The sedan looks very good, 100x better than the Jetta/Passat.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2012, 12:51:50 PM
You really think the Camry is better looking?
Yes.
Teuton has told me the Fusion is every bit as good looking in the metal as it is in pictures...and then some. He's not exactly what I would call a Ford fanboi either.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2012, 09:14:03 AM
Teuton has told me the Fusion is every bit as good looking in the metal as it is in pictures...and then some. He's not exactly what I would call a Ford fanboi either.
Did he urge you to subsribe to MT?
Quote from: 2o6 on January 12, 2012, 11:31:45 AM
Did he urge you to subsribe to MT?
Never has. Sounds like you're jealous though.
I got a quick tour of the MT El Segundo facilities last week. It's just like any other office with regular people. These people just happen to write for and edit one of the world's biggest car magazines. It's not just MT that's based there, either. It's Truck Trend, Hot Rod, Automotive.com, and one or two others. Very cool place.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2012, 11:34:22 AM
Never has. Sounds like you're jealous though.
Nah, I'm just funnin.
Quote from: Raza on January 11, 2012, 11:59:51 AM
That's true. But the rear plastic on the Mustang still annoys me, especially in brighter colors where it's more evident.
I feel the same way with the rear plastic on the Challenger. Just looks like a hasitly applied Walmart Auto Parts accessory.
I dig.
one minute i think the 2013 fusion is hot, the next not. at times, it looks kinda boring depending on color, angle, pic, etc. this is one of those cars that i will reserve final judgement until i see one (or more) in person.
i think i am schizophrenic :cry:
Quote from: hounddog on January 10, 2012, 12:14:45 PM
What happened?
You used to be funny, but now you are more like "Fun Bobby" without the alcohol. :huh:
I have less time and wine. It's all downhill from here.
:cry:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2012, 02:09:22 PM
Those who have seen the 2013 Fusion in person say it's sexy as all hell. It won the design award for gawd's sake.
I'm on one of the largest automotive forums around, the VW Vortex Car Lounge, and over there, the new Fusion design is recieving high praise. Most are saying it looks liek a small Aston, and a lot of VW owners are thinking of switching to Ford next time around.
Perosnally, I have to agree. It's a great looking midsizer. I love the front, rear and interior. It's a tad bit slab sided but not enough to ruin the looks.
Quote from: ChrisV on January 13, 2012, 07:26:28 AM
I'm on one of the largest automotive forums around, the VW Vortex Car Lounge, and over there, the new Fusion design is recieving high praise. Most are saying it looks liek a small Aston, and a lot of VW owners are thinking of switching to Ford next time around.
Perosnally, I have to agree. It's a great looking midsizer. I love the front, rear and interior. It's a tad bit slab sided but not enough to ruin the looks.
there are times when i say "i am going to purchase that new..." when it comes out, but have always stuck to what i have been driving and am glad that i did x8. there are many factors as to why one lets emotion over ride what one has owned and trusted for years, perhaps. as much as i love the new hyundai sonata, its popularity actually turns me off. seeing them everywhere is the downside for me. as an auto enthusiast, i prefer something unique whenever possible.
Quote from: Atomic on January 13, 2012, 08:34:54 AM
there are times when i say "i am going to purchase that new..." when it comes out, but have always stuck to what i have been driving and am glad that i did x8. there are many factors as to why one lets emotion over ride what one has owned and trusted for years, perhaps. as much as i love the new hyundai sonata, its popularity actually turns me off. seeing them everywhere is the downside for me. as an auto enthusiast, i prefer something unique whenever possible.
I think the Sonata's styling is a bit much. It's like they gave the guy working the clay his tools and said "Knock yourself out" It's too sculpted for my taste.
Quote from: Atomic on January 13, 2012, 08:34:54 AM
there are times when i say "i am going to purchase that new..." when it comes out, but have always stuck to what i have been driving and am glad that i did x8. there are many factors as to why one lets emotion over ride what one has owned and trusted for years, perhaps. as much as i love the new hyundai sonata, its popularity actually turns me off. seeing them everywhere is the downside for me. as an auto enthusiast, i prefer something unique whenever possible.
Kia Optima.
Quote from: Atomic on January 13, 2012, 08:34:54 AM
i prefer something unique whenever possible.
....the Maxima?
Quote from: 2o6 on January 11, 2012, 12:38:55 PM
Remember, we're talking to someone who thinks this is the bees knees in regards to styling and performance.
(http://www.driving.ca/5545356.bin?size=620x400)
The problem is that particular Camry looks damn good. :mask:
Quote from: CJ on January 13, 2012, 11:57:33 AM
The problem is that particular Camry looks damn good. :mask:
IMHO, it doesn't look as good in person.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2012, 01:18:07 PM
IMHO, it doesn't look as good in person.
It doesn't look good in pictures, either.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=26441.msg1648944#msg1648944 date=1326487342
It doesn't look good in pictures, either.
No, but it looks worse in person. It actually has a passing resemblance to the new Acuras.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 13, 2012, 01:49:10 PM
No, but it looks worse in person. It actually has a passing resemblance to the new Acuras.
The new Acuras aren't exactly beautiful, either.
Quote from: Madman on January 13, 2012, 08:59:10 PM
The new Acuras aren't exactly beautiful, either.
Exactly my point.
This actually looks very good. Ford is on a role with their designs. Even the Aston Martinish grille looks great here. The rest of the car is basically a European Ford Mondeo body to me (which looks great).
Now all they need to do to make me happy is bring back the 1980s Ford LTD with retro design. :praise: :rockon:
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 13, 2012, 10:23:34 AM
....the Maxima?
yes. actually. in a sea of accords, camrys and other cars, it has always been the closest i could get money and size wise in a sedan that for ME, was a premium luxury-sports vehicle. my favorite was my 1990 and 2000 maxi's. i am seeing more of the new design wherever i go, but i still look twice and smile when i see one and rarely do i see one driven as one's family car.
I really don't understand why everyone likes the Maxima, hell all newer Nissans. The interiors really aren't as good as the competition.
Quote from: CJ on January 19, 2012, 11:14:16 AM
I really don't understand why everyone likes the Maxima, hell all newer Nissans. The interiors really aren't as good as the competition.
I don't either. This is NOT a good looking car:
(http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/nissan/maxima/2012/ns/2012_nissan_maxima_actf34_ns_83111_717.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on January 19, 2012, 11:19:14 AM
I don't either. This is NOT a good looking car:
(http://media.il.edmunds-media.com/nissan/maxima/2012/ns/2012_nissan_maxima_actf34_ns_83111_717.jpg)
The current Max (which I like much better than the model immediately before) is another case of good fundamentals ruined by details. I find the shape and much of the body sculpting to be quite nice. Taught with some bulging at the fenders to indicate some sporting intentions while still being pretty understated (as opposed to the rather bloated look of the previous generation). But the strange headlamps and tail lamps really ruin the package.
It's just not very attractive. And the Altima? Bland.
The headlamps, the grille, and the ridges from the A-pillars forward. I liked the ridges when I first saw pictures of the car, but in person they don't work. They raise the height of the bodywork by at least an inch and half higher then it normally would be and the cowl feels really high because of it.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 19, 2012, 11:44:47 AM
The headlamps, the grille, and the ridges from the A-pillars forward. I liked the ridges when I first saw pictures of the car, but in person they don't work. They raise the height of the bodywork by at least an inch and half higher then it normally would be and the cowl feels really high because of it.
Wouldn't surprise me if the raised cowl is a result of pedestrian safety regulations. Probably had to raise the good to get the necessary "crush space" between the hood and the top of the engine.
Quote from: MX793 on January 19, 2012, 11:48:26 AM
Wouldn't surprise me if the raised cowl is a result of pedestrian safety regulations. Probably had to raise the good to get the necessary "crush space" between the hood and the top of the engine.
If you hit the hood hard enough to crush it, you're dead anyway.
I'm not sure how does dynamically, but it's also quite quick.
i really like the design of the new maxima, but roughly $40,000 for a loaded SV is quite steep. a great car, IMO, but i would buy an infiniti "G" sedan with AWD next time if i decide to stick with nissan corporation.
I have to agree that the fascias really ruin the Maxima. The front fascia is very blocky, and the rear fascia is flat-out ugly.
I think on the road the Maxima is a good looking car, froma nywhere but the front.
(http://www.cardotcom.com/photos/cars01/2012-nissan-maxima-sv/2012maxima-08-m.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y174/Ncbuckeye/Maxima2.jpg)
And the interior is nice as well.
(http://newcarscollections.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/2012-Nissan-Maxima-interior-view.jpg)
(http://onsurga.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/2012-Nissan-Maxima-Interior-Pictures.jpg)
The bar-of-soap rear end really doesn't match the brick-like front end.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 19, 2012, 01:11:42 PM
The bar-of-soap rear end really doesn't match the brick-like front end.
Yeah, it was like the rear end had a different design team than the front end.
Is this a Maxima thread now?
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/maximase86/IMG_0702.jpg)
The Maxima's interior may look decent, but it's really not that good. Materials are subpar.
Quote from: 68_427 on January 19, 2012, 01:15:01 PM
Is this a Maxima thread now?
No.
(http://dsc.discovery.com/pdi/files/2012/01/2013-Ford-Fusion.jpg)
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o15/TLMNICK/MAX/DSC_0022.jpg)
(http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac309/nguyen8034/no.jpg)
Aw.
(http://us.tnpv.net/2006/WKA200610/WKA2006103069601_pv.jpg)
(http://forums.themustangsource.com/gallery/files/8/8/2/0/0/restoffordssema09_03.jpg)
Quote from: CJ on January 19, 2012, 11:14:16 AM
I really don't understand why everyone likes the Maxima, hell all newer Nissans. The interiors really aren't as good as the competition.
I don't understand all this love for the Maxima, either.
Then again, I still don't understand the popularity of the Camry, Accord, Altima, Civic, Corolla, etc, so what do I know?
Seems to me the only reason the Maxima fanboys consider it to be a "sports sedan" is because Nissan's marketing department told them it was. I don't see anything "sporty" about it, myself. To me, it looks more like Nissan's answer to the Avalon. Oh, and it's ugly, too.
Have you driven one? Ugly it may be, but it is no slouch. Really entertaining in the curves, and fast too.
But it's not a Volvo, so I guess it fails.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 19, 2012, 09:28:58 PM
Have you driven one? Ugly it may be, but it is no slouch. Really entertaining in the curves, and fast too.
But it's not a Volvo, so I guess it fails.
To be fair, no, I have driven one. Well, not a recent one, anyway. I did drive one back in the '90s and I wasn't impressed. And the styling of the last couple of generations is so awful it will insure that I'd never want to try a more recent one.
Quote from: Madman on January 19, 2012, 09:27:53 PM
I don't understand all this love for the Maxima, either.
Then again, I still don't understand the popularity of the Camry, Accord, Altima, Civic, Corolla, etc, so what do I know?
Seems to me the only reason the Maxima fanboys consider it to be a "sports sedan" is because Nissan's marketing department told them it was. I don't see anything "sporty" about it, myself. To me, it looks more like Nissan's answer to the Avalon. Oh, and it's ugly, too.
i would never call myself a "fanboy", merely a happy owners of 8 nissan maximas: 1987, '90, '93, '96, '00, '04, '08, '10 (2011 SV is garage for the winter)... i have always felt the car was built around me, fitting me perfectly. a lot of car for the money and thousands of happy miles. in a family of honda and acura owners, i wanted something different. after being gifted my late dad's 2006 honda accord EX 4 cylinder, i think i will go for an acura TL (with AWD) if i decide to buy another sedan, but after that horrific accident, am nearly set on a 2012 or '13 volvo XC60 R. i will keep the accord in memory of my father and the 2010 maxi, but think i have outgrown FWD cars in favor of 4WD/AWD in these parts of upstate NY.
no apologies in purchasing so many maximas, just an owner of nearly trouble free driving pleasure. the '04 is the ONLY one that gave me trouble: teething pains of a totally new design. the 2008 was flawless and saved me live in the vehicular accident, from my thoughts and the opinion of EMT personnel, state police, sheriff and area firemen.
The popularity of the Maxima comes from the early 90s models. The '92 SE was only the second sport sedan in this class (after the SHO). The '95-'99 models introduced the VQ, which was clearly the best V6 on the market at the time. Car and Driver called the '95 SE model "the poor man's 5-Series." Also, the Maxima always came with a 6-cylinder, which distinguished it from the Accord and Camry of the time.
Nissan lost their way with the Maxima when they upsized the Altima and added a V6 in 2002. They no longer knew what to do with it, and it's been floundering since. They've bounced back and forth between an Avalon competitor and a sports sedan. At this point the Nissan buyer who wants a "4 door sports car" is buying a G, not a Maxima.
The other positive thing about the Maxima is that they were very reliable cars. My family had an '87 GXE and a '95 SE, and we kept both of them until 150k+ miles. Neither had any significant problems, and that's especially impressive compared to other cars of the time.
The Maxima and the G actually sell at about the same level, and that's with the G having choices of two engines and three body styles. (The Maxima is less expensive, but not crazily less expensive.)
Quote from: afty on January 21, 2012, 02:50:27 PM
The popularity of the Maxima comes from the early 90s models. The '92 SE was only the second sport sedan in this class (after the SHO). The '95-'99 models introduced the VQ, which was clearly the best V6 on the market at the time. Car and Driver called the '95 SE model "the poor man's 5-Series." Also, the Maxima always came with a 6-cylinder, which distinguished it from the Accord and Camry of the time.
Nissan lost their way with the Maxima when they upsized the Altima and added a V6 in 2002. They no longer knew what to do with it, and it's been floundering since. They've bounced back and forth between an Avalon competitor and a sports sedan. At this point the Nissan buyer who wants a "4 door sports car" is buying a G, not a Maxima.
The other positive thing about the Maxima is that they were very reliable cars. My family had an '87 GXE and a '95 SE, and we kept both of them until 150k+ miles. Neither had any significant problems, and that's especially impressive compared to other cars of the time.
Exactly right.
I've always liked the '95-'99 Maximas a lot. Sleek, powerful and well built. IMO, the best looking Maxima made. It would've been cool if my parents bought a '99 Maxima instead of their '99 Avalon.
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/nascar/dam/assets/120124045225-2013-fusion-nosyn-story-top.jpg)
gross
Yeah, a V-8 powered, rear wheel drive, two-door "Fusion" is somehow considered a "stock" car. :rolleyes:
Just one of many reasons why anyone with half a brain considers NASCAR a joke!
I've driven the Maxima extensively. It really is an excellent car.
Quote from: Madman on January 24, 2012, 02:08:55 PM
Yeah, a V-8 powered, rear wheel drive, two-door "Fusion" is somehow considered a "stock" car. :rolleyes:
Just one of many reasons why anyone with half a brain considers NASCAR a joke!
Umm, its racing. Just because you don't like the cars doesn't mean its not real, or whatever your point is. You can't race a "stock" car around an oval and make it safe.
Quote from: Catman on January 24, 2012, 03:37:16 PM
Umm, its racing. Just because you don't like the cars doesn't mean its not real, or whatever your point is. You can't race a "stock" car around an oval and make it safe.
You can't race a "stock" car anywhere and be safe. That's why it isn't done. It's also why NASCAR started mandating changes to make things safer.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 24, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
You can't race a "stock" car anywhere and be safe. That's why it isn't done. It's also why NASCAR started mandating changes to make things safer.
That was my point. Not sure why haters always complain about the cars not being the same as the ones in the showroom. Anyone with half a brain understands the realities.
Quote from: Catman on January 24, 2012, 12:33:31 PM
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/nascar/dam/assets/120124045225-2013-fusion-nosyn-story-top.jpg)
Nice! What series?
Quote from: SVT666 on January 24, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
You can't race a "stock" car anywhere and be safe. That's why it isn't done. It's also why NASCAR started mandating changes to make things safer.
Of course it wasn't safe, but it was a lot of fun to watch :ohyeah:. 1970 was the last year that could be considered to even resemble "stock".
Quote from: SVT666 on January 24, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
You can't race a "stock" car anywhere and be safe. That's why it isn't done. It's also why NASCAR started mandating changes to make things safer.
It's done all the time.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 24, 2012, 04:19:42 PM
There are rules to be followed.
I know. When the cops come, it's every man for himself :huh:.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 24, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
I know. When the cops come, it's every man for himself :huh:.
:wtf:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 24, 2012, 04:44:50 PM
What were you thinking of? Track day?
Any racing with stock cars. I can't list them all.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 24, 2012, 04:45:41 PM
Any racing with stock cars. I can't list them all.
Most require or allow minor modifications.
Watching Nascar is still a lot more interesting than watching football.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 24, 2012, 05:45:32 PM
Watching Nascar is still a lot more interesting than watching football.
I'd rather watch golf than either.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 24, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
You can't race a "stock" car anywhere and be safe. That's why it isn't done. It's also why NASCAR started mandating changes to make things safer.
The "Next Generation Touring Car" used in the BTCC (and the Super 2000 cars used in the WTCC) starts with a body shell from an actual production car. Naturally, it is heavily modified for race applications but at least it is directly derived from a REAL "stock" car unlike NASCAR where absolutely nothing is shared in common with a production model.
And don't even get me started on the sheer mind-numbing boredom of oval track racing, but that's a subject for another thread. I guess asking the typical knuckle-dragging redneck to turn both left AND right is too much of a mental challenge? :lol:
EDIT: This is what NASCAR should be.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lj919WVSoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_hoWUmNWa8
Quote from: SVT666 on January 24, 2012, 03:42:03 PM
You can't race a "stock" car anywhere and be safe. That's why it isn't done. It's also why NASCAR started mandating changes to make things safer.
It would be nice to see some connection to the actual cars, though. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" doesn't work if what won was a shell with Ford headlights painted on it instead of Chevy.
Quote from: ifcar on January 24, 2012, 06:57:52 PM
It would be nice to see some connection to the actual cars, though. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" doesn't work if what won was a shell with Ford headlights painted on it instead of Chevy.
Yeah, but there's too much variation between real cars. NASCAR cars are all the same, specs wise, and that's what supposedly makes it fun to watch.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 24, 2012, 07:11:07 PM
Yeah, but there's too much variation between real cars. NASCAR cars are all the same, specs wise, and that's what supposedly makes it fun to watch.
The problem is aero is much more important than years ago. The cars have to be very similar to eliminate one manufacturer having an advantage over the others. NASCAR has done a good job encouraging good competition.
WTCC cars share a LOT in common with production models. Often times, drive wheels are still the same as production models.
Heck, even DTM uses car bodies mounted on racing chassis.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 24, 2012, 05:45:32 PM
Watching Nascar is still a lot more interesting than watching football.
+1. Also that Fusion looks badass. 2013 Cup car?
Quote from: ifcar on January 24, 2012, 06:57:52 PM
It would be nice to see some connection to the actual cars, though. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" doesn't work if what won was a shell with Ford headlights painted on it instead of Chevy.
That's what production based series like the Grand Am Cup (or Koni Challenge or whatever it's called now) and Rolex Sports Car series are for.
Black on is badass.
(http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/p/sp/getty/03/fullj.a335c7e23815108d10a5d7d18db00952/a335c7e23815108d10a5d7d18db00952-getty-137661350.jpg)
Quote from: Catman on January 24, 2012, 07:54:15 PM
The problem is aero is much more important than years ago. The cars have to be very similar to eliminate one manufacturer having an advantage over the others. NASCAR has done a good job encouraging good competition.
If they made production cars more aerodynamic, then maybe they'd actually be able to race "stock" cars, again.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 24, 2012, 09:57:33 PM
If they made production cars more aerodynamic, then maybe they'd actually be able to race "stock" cars, again.
Never happen. That might mean one manufacturer would gain a rel advantage. NASCAR isn't about the cars, it's about the show and the drivers. NASCAR wants close races with lots of action, that means closely matched cars, which means something close to identical cars in plastic bodies that look something like the street cars.
I'd love to see NASCAR return to stock bodies and chassis and modified manufacturer's engines with roll cages and all the other safety equipmemt.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 25, 2012, 06:19:50 AM
Never happen. That might mean one manufacturer would gain a rel advantage. NASCAR isn't about the cars, it's about the show and the drivers. NASCAR wants close races with lots of action, that means closely matched cars, which means something close to identical cars in plastic bodies that look something like the street cars.
I'd love to see NASCAR return to stock bodies and chassis and modified manufacturer's engines with roll cages and all the other safety equipmemt.
Nobody would watch it either.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 25, 2012, 11:27:47 AM
Nobody would watch it either.
Why do you say that? I think more people would want to see real cars on real racing circuits instead of identical plastic-bodied tractors driving round inside a bowl. Or is Bubba Beergut just not ready for that?
Quote from: Madman on January 25, 2012, 11:38:08 AM
Why do you say that? I think more people would want to see real cars on real racing circuits instead of identical plastic-bodied tractors driving round inside a bowl. Or is Bubba Beergut just not ready for that?
Really? Then why is NASCAR the largest spectator sport in the world? Why are there not more people watching the World Touring Car Championship, or WRC, or Grand-Am? Those are all cars that are based on real road cars and race on varying degrees of real roads or race tracks.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 25, 2012, 11:41:48 AM
Really? Then why is NASCAR the largest spectator sport in the world? Why are there not more people watching the World Touring Car Championship, or WRC, or Grand-Am? Those are all cars that are based on real road cars and race on varying degrees of real roads or race tracks.
Because stock car racing has a large base and that's all the stock car racing there is on TV. If they changed to what I wrote earlier I doubt all those fans would suddenly think "Aw hell, it's different now I'm gonna watch
Just Say Yes To The Dress instead". Believe me, there would still be the NASCAR loyal and probably a few more fans, those who now don't care for NASCAR now simple becasue it's not really stock car racing. They watched it back in the 6o's when they were based on stock metal and engines.
Those other types of racing have no where near the sponsorship or promotional efforts that NASCAR has either, nor does the typical NASCAR spectator identify with those drivers or cars. You'll never see a number form a Le Mans car with a halo above it on the back window of Bubba's pickup.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 25, 2012, 11:56:14 AM
Because stock car racing has a large base and that's all the stock car racing there is on TV. If they changed to what I wrote earlier I doubt all those fans would suddenly think "Aw hell, it's different now I'm gonna watch Just Say Yes To The Dress instead". Believe me, there would still be the NASCAR loyal and probably a few more fans, those who now don't care for NASCAR now simple becasue it's not really stock car racing. They watched it back in the 6o's when they were based on stock metal and engines.
Those other types of racing have no where near the sponsorship or promotional efforts that NASCAR has either, nor does the typical NASCAR spectator identify with those drivers or cars. You'll never see a number form a Le Mans car with a halo above it on the back window of Bubba's pickup.
The sponsorship comes from viewership, not the other way around. NASCAR would lose massive amounts of fans if they got rid of the speed and the ovals. Guaranteed.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 25, 2012, 12:39:53 PM
The sponsorship comes from viewership, not the other way around. NASCAR would lose massive amounts of fans if they got rid of the speed and the ovals. Guaranteed.
I can't speak for the current NASCAR fan but I really enjoyed NASCAR through, especially, the '60s as it was a realistic competition between the brands and each year you knew that they would each step it up a level and make it even more competitive and exciting to watch; not necessarily the skills of the drivers, moreso the endurance and speed of the cars. When it became more of a formula series, it lost that aspect, imo, and watching cars that are pretty much equal in most respects going around an oval lost its appeal. However, as an event where a family, or a bunch of guys, can sit in a giant stadium and root for their favourite team and drink beer while having a tailgate party, it seems that it would appeal to the same crowd as is drawn to any sporting event such as football or soccer; which doesn't appeal much to me. Personally, I rather watch a mud race or tractor pull where the vehicles are more unique.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 25, 2012, 12:39:53 PM
The sponsorship comes from viewership, not the other way around. NASCAR would lose massive amounts of fans if they got rid of the speed and the ovals. Guaranteed.
I never mentioned getting rid of ovals.
AI seem to recall a few years ago it was determined that the crs were going too fast and a rule was put in place that would limit the top speed. The thinking was fans didn't really care if the cars were going 215 or 101 MPH and could tell anyway; wha they wanted was an exciting event with lots of action. You can get that with sprint cars on a dirt track at far less than NASCAR speeds.
And anyway why would you lose speed if you used a stock car, heavily modified with safety cages, etc and allowed unrestricted engine development (as long as 500 of them are made with that engine)? If nothing else it would generate some fine future collectable cars.
Quote from: MiataJohn on January 25, 2012, 01:03:09 PM
I never mentioned getting rid of ovals.
Madman did.
QuoteAI seem to recall a few years ago it was determined that the crs were going too fast and a rule was put in place that would limit the top speed. The thinking was fans didn't really care if the cars were going 215 or 101 MPH and could tell anyway; wha they wanted was an exciting event with lots of action. You can get that with sprint cars on a dirt track at far less than NASCAR speeds.
They slowed them down for safety reasons. Fans can most certainly tell the difference between 215 and 101 mph, and if you put stock bodies on these cars, the speeds would drop so dramatically, that it would lose interest for people. You also can't have pieces of steel bodies flying off a car that just got into an accident at 200 mph and have other cars hitting them.
QuoteAnd anyway why would you lose speed if you used a stock car, heavily modified with safety cages, etc and allowed unrestricted engine development (as long as 500 of them are made with that engine)? If nothing else it would generate some fine future collectable cars.
There is no way cars with stock bodies would be hitting 200+ mph safely. They would be impossible to control at those speeds.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 25, 2012, 11:41:48 AM
Really? Then why is NASCAR the largest spectator sport in the world? Why are there not more people watching the World Touring Car Championship, or WRC, or Grand-Am? Those are all cars that are based on real road cars and race on varying degrees of real roads or race tracks.
NASCAR is the popular spectator sport in the world? Since when?
Here's the list, in case you're interested:
1. Football (AKA Soccer)
2. Cricket
3. Basketball
4. Tennis
5. Motor Racing (BTW, Formula 1's worldwide audience of around one billion viewers eclipses NASCAR's regional Southern US audience)
6. Horse Racing
7. Baseball
8. Athletics
9. Golf
10. Boxing
BTW Football (AKA Soccer) has around 3.5 billion viewers worldwide. NASCAR doesn't even come close.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 25, 2012, 01:16:30 PM
Madman did.
They slowed them down for safety reasons. Fans can most certainly tell the difference between 215 and 101 mph, and if you put stock bodies on these cars, the speeds would drop so dramatically, that it would lose interest for people. You also can't have pieces of steel bodies flying off a car that just got into an accident at 200 mph and have other cars hitting them.
There is no way cars with stock bodies would be hitting 200+ mph safely. They would be impossible to control at those speeds.
Typo, I meant 201. :lol:
So what's that crap that flies all over the track when there is an accident today? Current cars are made of steel. I'm not saying grab a Fusion down at the local dealer, put in a roll cage strip the interior and have at it. I'm saying take a fusion strip it out, put in a crash cage, weld the damn thing together, much like they do now and let the builder have at it with whatever engine the manufacturer puts in the car (modified of course). Of course glass would be replaced with polycarbonate, the fuel system relocated for safety with fuel cells, etc.
At one time it was said of both horse and auto racing that racing improves the breed. Perhaps a move to more stock configuations could do that. Also note Ford is claiming the 2013 Fusion is very close to the body shape of the street car so perhaps at least one manufacturer can build a car controllable at 200 MPH.
Quote from: Madman on January 24, 2012, 06:09:49 PM
EDIT: This is what NASCAR should be.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lj919WVSoo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_hoWUmNWa8
Just watch BTCC.
Quite honestly this shows a really big step into getting the cars to appear the same as the production counterpart. It'll get closer with the next generation of cars after this.
Quote from: Madman on January 25, 2012, 01:19:54 PM
NASCAR is the popular spectator sport in the world? Since when?
Here's the list, in case you're interested:
1. Football (AKA Soccer)
2. Cricket
3. Basketball
4. Tennis
5. Motor Racing (BTW, Formula 1's worldwide audience of around one billion viewers eclipses NASCAR's regional Southern US audience)
6. Horse Racing
7. Baseball
8. Athletics
9. Golf
10. Boxing
BTW Football (AKA Soccer) has around 3.5 billion viewers worldwide. NASCAR doesn't even come close.
I think he means at the event itself. He may be right too. Indianapolis has upwards of 250k people watching. I think the average attendance for NASCAR events is around 140-150k people. It's gigantic. I don't know the TV numbers though.
FWIW, I think SVT is spot on. I think there are a lot of reasons why NASCAR is in it's current form. Changing it back to regular stock cars would mess with it's business and safety model quite a bit. I know I'd likely watch vehicles in stock form quite a bit more. However, as a fan of other racing series ( WRC, Touring Car..etc ), I will readily admit that they don't have the legions of fans that NASCAR carries.