Here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82701
:ohyeah:
(http://www.m3post.com/forums/attachment.php?s=4c4503d60b4f06e50befcb097c12f244&attachmentid=98801&stc=1&d=1189284450)
Wouldn't it be nice to own a M5, M6 and a M3.
P.S. he noted he wasn't impressed with the engine below 4,000 rpm's to whoever was arguing with me about this vs. the vette for torque.
I really dislike that wheel style, both on this car and the previous M3. They look like something upsized from a half-assedly designed Hot Wheels.
Quote from: Champ on September 10, 2007, 09:44:54 AM
P.S. he noted he wasn't impressed with the engine below 4,000 rpm's to whoever was arguing with me about this vs. the vette for torque.
Which is exactly why I prefer larger displacement and lower revving engines. I hate having to wring an engine out to get any power.
Quote from: Champ on September 10, 2007, 09:44:54 AM
Wouldn't it be nice to own a M5, M6 and a M3.
P.S. he noted he wasn't impressed with the engine below 4,000 rpm's to whoever was arguing with me about this vs. the vette for torque.
Actually, not quite. He stated:
"One thing I did find, though, is that you do have to keep the revs up above 4,000 to get the best from the engine."
Quote from: GoCougs on September 10, 2007, 10:43:02 AM
Actually, not quite. He stated:
"One thing I did find, though, is that you do have to keep the revs up above 4,000 to get the best from the engine."
Which is a nice way of putting it, and also proves my point that I was getting to in whatever thread we were arguing about that.
Quote from: HEMI666 on September 10, 2007, 10:11:37 AM
Which is exactly why I prefer larger displacement and lower revving engines. I hate having to wring an engine out to get any power.
Different strokes (and bores) for different folks. I find larger displacement, low revving engines to be boring.
But that's another thread... the new M3 seems cool, still waiting on the CSL version to come out.
Why does is have to have such ackward details on a car on an otherwise good looking car :banghead:
I'm sure it's probably a great drive but unless I absolutly needed a back seat I'd get a Cayman S for the price.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on September 10, 2007, 11:01:24 AM
Different strokes (and bores) for different folks. I find larger displacement, low revving engines to be boring.
I can appreciate high revving engines, but I like putting my foot to floor at any rpm in any gear and have the car pull hard.
Quote from: HEMI666 on September 10, 2007, 11:58:39 AM
I can appreciate high revving engines, but I like putting my foot to floor at any rpm in any gear and have the car pull hard.
Do you really think a 400HP car will have any trouble pulling in any gear at any speed, regardless of redline? I thought we established that gearing eliminated all the effects of high revving engines.
Again, power is power... if there were no tach you wouldn't know the difference.
Quote from: Champ on September 10, 2007, 10:56:30 AM
Which is a nice way of putting it, and also proves my point that I was getting to in whatever thread we were arguing about that.
There's was nothing regarding disappointment.
I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but anecdotal experience is not proof.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 10, 2007, 01:09:27 PM
There's was nothing regarding disappointment.
I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but anecdotal experience is not proof.
Referring to the high revs low torque vs. low revs high torque. There was a large debate over which was better in some other thread, and the two cars compared I think were the Zo6 and this, which have similar HP but much different torque.
Some people were arguing that the M3 will have good torque and pull down low, and relatively I don't think it'll be that great.
Quote from: Champ on September 10, 2007, 01:46:07 PMSome people were arguing that the M3 will have good torque and pull down low, and relatively I don't think it'll be that great.
Compared to what... a tractor????
Quote from: sportyaccordy on September 10, 2007, 01:00:36 PM
Again, power is power... if there were no tach you wouldn't know the difference.
Except for that little thing called noise.
Take the M3 and put it against a Roush Stage 3 Mustang. Both cars have about 415hp and weigh within 100 lbs or so of each other. The Roush will walk away from the M3 if you're rolling along at 1500 rpm and mash the loud pedal if this engine doesn't produce significant power until after 4000 rpm.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on September 10, 2007, 01:50:37 PM
Compared to what... a tractor????
Are you serious or...?
Compared obviously to an engine with more torque but the same HP.
It really is all personal preference. Do you like to downshift to pass or would you rather just mash the pedal and go? Do you get a thrill by redlining and shifting often or do you like being in any gear and not get bogged down.
It's a pretty simple question, and BMW hasn't made some jesus engine that pulls super hard over all the super long rev range.
No doubts it's a great engine and will sell a lot of cars, but it isn't for everyone.
Quote from: Champ on September 10, 2007, 02:09:52 PM
Are you serious or...?
Compared obviously to an engine with more torque but the same HP.
It really is all personal preference. Do you like to downshift to pass or would you rather just mash the pedal and go? Do you get a thrill by redlining and shifting often or do you like being in any gear and not get bogged down.
It's a pretty simple question, and BMW hasn't made some jesus engine that pulls super hard over all the super long rev range. No doubts it's a great engine and will sell a lot of cars, but it isn't for everyone.
I personally think it's a great engine and I would probably have a shitload of fun with it, but I also believe there are better alternatives. Especially considering an LS3 can be bought from GM in crate form for about $7K and the BMW engine probably costs 3 or 4 times that and the LS3 gives better power, mileage, and torque.
Quote from: HEMI666 on September 10, 2007, 02:33:46 PM
I personally think it's a great engine and I would probably have a shitload of fun with it, but I also believe there are better alternatives. Especially considering an LS3 can be bought from GM in crate form for about $7K and the BMW engine probably costs 3 or 4 times that and the LS3 gives better power, mileage, and torque.
I think we should just leave it be as a difference in preferences. I have experienced the same level of power in the two forms contested here and for me, the wind up motor is just better. It's lighter on the nose, it's better gas mileage-wise (even with 60MPH "screaming" at 3K in top gear), and you get to utilize the full rev range. Why have the redline set at 6.5K when the car falls flat at 5?
And as far as low end torque... I'm cool with having a lot if I can get it while saving gas, and having it throughout the rev range... but honestly when I'm driving to work or to get groceries, I don't need 400HP off idle.
Again it's just a matter of taste really... pretty pointless to argue or debate over.
if you have a truely rev happy engine, you can't even tell what the rpms are... so keeping in the powerband is not a hassle -shrug-
Quote from: sportyaccordy on September 10, 2007, 04:28:15 PM
I think we should just leave it be as a difference in preferences. I have experienced the same level of power in the two forms contested here and for me, the wind up motor is just better. It's lighter on the nose, it's better gas mileage-wise (even with 60MPH "screaming" at 3K in top gear), and you get to utilize the full rev range. Why have the redline set at 6.5K when the car falls flat at 5?
And as far as low end torque... I'm cool with having a lot if I can get it while saving gas, and having it throughout the rev range... but honestly when I'm driving to work or to get groceries, I don't need 400HP off idle.
Again it's just a matter of taste really... pretty pointless to argue or debate over.
You think the LS3 falls flat at 5K? You think the M3 gets better mileage then the Vette? You think the M3 V8 weighs less then the LS3? LS3 weighs 443 lbs and the M3 V8 weighs 445 lbs.
damn...wish i could get a E92 M3, actually any M3 would be fine enough for me...just not the E36 *shudders*
Quote from: HEMI666 on September 10, 2007, 10:11:37 AM
Which is exactly why I prefer larger displacement and lower revving engines. I hate having to wring an engine out to get any power.
:rolleyes:
Anywho, does anyone know when (if?) the E90 M3 is coming out?
Quote from: deesea on September 10, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
damn...wish i could get a E92 M3, actually any M3 would be fine enough for me...just not the E36 *shudders*
:nono: You want a E46 M3.
Quote from: M_power on September 10, 2007, 05:23:04 PM
:nono: You want a E46 M3.
the way this thread is going, you'd have to get out and push an E46 M3 in traffic to try to keep up!!!
Quote from: r0tor on September 10, 2007, 05:28:54 PM
the way this thread is going, you'd have to get out and push an E46 M3 in traffic to try to keep up!!!
I never once said an M3 doesn't have any power down, it 's just that you have to wring it out to get it all, and that's what I don't like. I like a car that has gobs of power available down low that doesn't require 8000rpms to get it all out.
Quote from: deesea on September 10, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
damn...wish i could get a E92 M3, actually any M3 would be fine enough for me...just not the E36 *shudders*
You mean the one that was once called "The Best Handling Car Ever, at Any Price?"
You mean the first M3 widely available in the US?
The first and so far only M3 sedan?
You could wish for worse.
Quote from: HEMI666 on September 10, 2007, 02:04:01 PM
Except for that little thing called noise.
Take the M3 and put it against a Roush Stage 3 Mustang. Both cars have about 415hp and weigh within 100 lbs or so of each other. The Roush will walk away from the M3 if you're rolling along at 1500 rpm and mash the loud pedal if this engine doesn't produce significant power until after 4000 rpm.
Whats the big deal? You're never going to race someone like that to begin with and even if you are who cares if someone else's car is faster? Big deal if you have to downshift that's part of the fun. That's why we have manual trannys because it's fun to shift gears. Personaly I think it's way more fun to feel the power build as the engine just keeps reving and reving. I'd much rather do that than have an engine that makes its peak power at 2000rpms and just stays constant from there, it's far more exciting to feel the power build up.
As good of a car I know the M3 is.I'd still buy a Vette.I just prefer the low slung look of the Vette to the upright(M3,911,GT500)look of other sports cars in this class. :huh:
Quote from: deesea on September 10, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
damn...wish i could get a E92 M3, actually any M3 would be fine enough for me...just not the E36 *shudders*
You're joking right?
I haven't driven that many cars, as I'm not an automotive journalist, but I've driven some nice/expensive cars, and the E36 3-Series is the sharpest car I've ever driven. I've driven an E46 M3 and it's not as direct as the E36.
Quote from: HEMI666 on September 10, 2007, 08:04:54 PM
I never once said an M3 doesn't have any power down, it 's just that you have to wring it out to get it all, and that's what I don't like. I like a car that has gobs of power available down low that doesn't require 8000rpms to get it all out.
Dude, do you know how horsepower works? You have to rev every engine to get power, that is the nature of the internal combustion engine. No engine makes anywhere near full power off idle.
And again... gearing gearing gearing.... it's like talking to a brick wall.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on September 11, 2007, 05:34:17 AM
Dude, do you know how horsepower works? You have to rev every engine to get power, that is the nature of the internal combustion engine. No engine makes anywhere near full power off idle.
No shit, but if I can have an engine that makes the same power, more torque, beter gas mileage, weighs the same, and it does it all using 2000 less rpms, that's what I would prefer.
QuoteAnd again... gearing gearing gearing.... it's like talking to a brick wall.
Oh my god! Gearing! I forgot all about gearing. Please. Get off your high horse. It's different strokes for different folks, and if you like engines screaming to get all the power then that's what you like. I don't.
The Brits are getting their first delivered M3s and here are a couple more initial reviews from owners at M3Post:
From user Leg: "Well I got my test drive yesterday and all I can say is any doubts have gone and I confirmed I wanted to proceed with my order.
Restricted to 4500 revs and roads around Leeds (although we found a few quiet roundabouts and I 'accidently' hit 5500 revs occasionally) I cant say I pushed the car particularly but from driving into the dealers and seeing the car through to watching Richard from Leeds BMW drive it away at the end I was impressed throughout.
Ive driven quattro Audis for the last 6 years and a key factor in getting the M3 over an RS4 for me was a desire to have a more challenging car to drive. Ive built and tracked Westfields in the past and had to give that up due to time (work and family) and ever since have found Audis to be just a little too safe and predictable. Great cars (Ive had plenty as I mentioned) but they always failed to get the same adrenalin pump out of me as the Westfield could.
The M3 was everything I hoped for. Seeing it parked next to a normal 3 coupe, also in black, I just couldnt stop grinning. All concerns of it looking like a normal 3 coupe were gone instantly, this thing looks meaty with a capital 'WOW'. That bonnet bulge could house a small family! The rear arches look huge from behind and the only angle I would say it loses it a little is from the front at around 45 degrees to the car when the arches blend a bit. Still looks great though.
The interior is a great place to be too. Last year I went out and bought one of the last original 3.2 TTs before they went out of poduction as I always liked them and wanted one to modify and keep for good. I always felt the interior on that car was probably one of the nicest places to be in any car. However the M3 felt just as good if a little toned down. Chunkier and more solid as well. There are plenty of nice styling touches from the twisted door grabs to the subtle but stylish seat designs. I was impressed throughout.
I was a little concerned about the 'sitting too high' reports but found that my favoured position of steering wheel high and out and the seat as low as possible delivered a perfect driving position. Steering wheel is fine too, journos must have small hands!
Driving wise what can I say, engine sounds fantastic, handles great - just a great car all round and I look forward to parting with ?55K for mine.
If you were doubting, dont, the journalists are talking out of their arses.
The car got lots of attention too as you woudl imagine. Oh and a big up to the chap in an M3 E30 who shouted across at the lights 'BUY IT NOW, BUY IT NOW' and stuck his thumb up out of his window."
From Peppernick: "Touched based with Hexagon of Highgate to find that they have sold both their demo M3s, the latest one got locked up just this morning. Not good as I was expecting a test drive. However, one very friendly principal Paul Michaels decided to volunteer his own E92 M3 to tickle my tastebuds; but then I brought along Durgesh and he's not leaving the dealearship without wetting his pants.
Mr Michaels just picked up his car today, the odometer read 17 miles. Lovely example in Jerez Black with Fox Red interior. This car is fully optioned, the price, 6 large ones, GBP.
The E92 M3 is a big car. Probably not as wide as the 6-series, but just as long if not just slightly longer. My Zee seems dwarfted next to it.
The interior is typical BMW. However, a driver orientated dash is not all about that old-styled curvy dash that points towards the driver. In fact, such concept is all psychological and/or one refusing to depart from the days gone by. It's 2007, it's high tech age and the E92 dash is as modern and as driver orientated as it can be. Every important and regularly used adjustment button is well within reach and functions as it should be. Any adjustments that are used less frequently are held in the sub menu of the i-Drive, decluttering the dash. The i-Drive is a fantastic piece of technological advancement. Anybody who is capable of using a PC will be able to operate it. The screen is very well placed and there is no chance of reflections from the windows and windscreen obscuring your view, images and letters displayed are crystal clear. The dash is very driver orientated.
The E92 M3 is a much softer car than it's E46 predecessor. The clutch pedal is light as feather, yet there is progressiveness in it's travel giving you an idea where the bite point is, right in the middle of pedal travel. The steering wheel is very light. In fact I was rather shocked as it reminded me of the Z4, or a Merc. However, unlike the former two, you still get enough communication between the road and steering wheel. It's no Porsche, but for something that feels this light and assisted, the feedback is surprisingly good. Steering is very precise for such a large car, even with a V8 up front.
The V8 is one quick engine. We were given strict instructions not to take it above 5000RPM, but we managed to squeeze in some 6.5k in second and third. On paper the torque figure reads 295lb/ft. In reality it feels much stronger. The new M3 pulls just like the E39 M5, but unlike the older S65 lump, this V8 screams rev! It spins very similarly to the S54, but with added pull, a lot more pull. Hit the sport button and the engine really wakes up. Unlike the 'Sport' button on the E46 M3, the new 'Sport' button actually make the car more drivable around town. The new car doesn't kangaroo and jerk like the old one, it's like a fast forward button that quickens everything up, smoothly.
The E39 M5 is a very accomplished car, other than the re-circulating ball steering, it's mass and hence, it's sideway inertia, there's very little to fault it. The E92 M3 IMO is essentially the best bits of the E39 M5 but without the woolley steering and the mass effect. OK, it's not a light car at 1650kg, but it's extremely nippy for what it is and you don't feel the weight. It has a tendency to go sideways but that's because of the engine power and not weight. This new chassis is a line hugger.
Oh, that noise! You can tune the 335i anyway you like, you'll never get this feeling ....
Overall impression, the new E92 M3 is a superb everyday performance car. It's not a sports car you you can chuck round hairpins, it's not a road going race car that offers you amazing feedback. It's not better or worse than the E46 M3, it's completely different! My understanding is correct. Over the years, the M3 has evolved from a road racer to a GT. It's not cheap at ?50k for a 3-series; but if you think about it, what other new GTs can you get with a 415BHP V8, rear wheel drive, rear seats that are genuinely usable, the option of a manual gearbox or SMG, a bit of panarch, a respectable badge, for this kind of money? TBH, I can't think of any.
The traditionalist may criticise that it's a revolution instead of an evolution, but I'm glad the new M3 is what it currently represents. It's still the most versatile performance Coupe de Grace that you can comfortably enjoy everyday with your family and friends, with lots of character of a RWD chassis.
I look forward to getting mine in March."
Sounds like a very honest review.
But I wouldn't call the M3 challenging, based on some of his descriptions.
Either way, it seems like this is going to be a good car. I still wouldn't buy one.
Quote from: sandertheshark on September 10, 2007, 08:53:01 PM
You mean the one that was once called "The Best Handling Car Ever, at Any Price?"
You mean the first M3 widely available in the US?
The first and so far only M3 sedan?
You could wish for worse.
Yeah, like an E92!
The E36 M3 combines the sharpness of the E30 with a bit more power. Possibly the best BMW ever made, and now I find myself opening an Autotrader to find a sedan version....damn!
Quote from: Raza on September 11, 2007, 03:56:33 PM
Yeah, like an E92!
The E36 M3 combines the sharpness of the E30 with a bit more power. Possibly the best BMW ever made, and now I find myself opening an Autotrader to find a sedan version....damn!
Sharpness of the E30 huh...
Quote from: Raza on September 11, 2007, 03:56:33 PM
Yeah, like an E92!
The E36 M3 combines the sharpness of the E30 with a bit more power. Possibly the best BMW ever made, and now I find myself opening an Autotrader to find a sedan version....damn!
I think the E46 is actually sharper and more hard core than the E36. The E30 is sharper than either by quite a bit.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on September 11, 2007, 06:49:20 PM
I think the E46 is actually sharper and more hard core than the E36. The E30 is sharper than either by quite a bit.
:rolleyes:
Just be happy I'm saying nice things about a BMW.
:lol: :lol: