Wide traffic lanes are much less safe than narrow lanes

[Laconian]

The science is in. Narrow lanes are safer.

https://www.wri.org/blog/2016/12/bigger-isnt-always-better-narrow-traffic-lanes-make-cities-safer

[BimmerM3]

God, I hate reporting on scientific research.

• Their own graphic indicates that the most narrow lanes are more dangerous than moderately narrow lanes, so the headline is just dumb.
• This could very easily be a correlation, not causation, situation. They're comparing a handful of cities across different countries and continents. Differences in vehicle safety, driving style, pedestrian awareness, etc. could all account for pieces of this difference. It'd be much more useful to see a comparison of a single city before and after they make changes to their lane sizes, or at least compare different cities within the same country.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Mass is the safest state to drive in. Wyoming is the most dangerous. Go figger.

[CaminoRacer]

God, I hate reporting on scientific research.

• Their own graphic indicates that the most narrow lanes are more dangerous than moderately narrow lanes, so the headline is just dumb.
• This could very easily be a correlation, not causation, situation. They're comparing a handful of cities across different countries and continents. Differences in vehicle safety, driving style, pedestrian awareness, etc. could all account for pieces of this difference. It'd be much more useful to see a comparison of a single city before and after they make changes to their lane sizes, or at least compare different cities within the same country.

Narrow lanes are usually common in cities that are generally older and more pedestrian friendly in the first place.

Wider lanes are much less stressful to drive on, so this won't convince me to make them narrower. You can reduce speed limits and still have wider lanes...

[Laconian]

Wide lanes induce people to drive faster. FL has some roads which are notorious killers, because they paved huge boulevards with wide lanes straight through school zones. The predictable result was that people were hitting kids at 50mph.

Humans are stupid and are more guided by their amygdalas than road signs.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Wide lanes induce people to drive faster. FL has some roads which are notorious killers, because they paved huge boulevards with wide lanes straight through school zones. The predictable result was that people were hitting kids at 50mph.

Humans are stupid and are more guided by their amygdalas than road signs.

Counter point: road signs are stupid.

[AutobahnSHO]

Wide lanes induce people to drive faster. FL has some roads which are notorious killers, because they paved huge boulevards with wide lanes straight through school zones. The predictable result was that people were hitting kids at 50mph.

Humans are stupid and are more guided by their amygdalas than road signs.

This was what I was going to say.

Roads that are a little bit "unsafe/ predictable" cause drivers to be more cautious than ones that "feel" safer/faster. Saw some other study on it.

[FoMoJo]

It makes sense, people pay more attention when cars are closer together.  Also, with wider lanes, people tend to wander; at least around here.  Drivers often infringe on the next lane for no reason.

That they mention Delhi though as having wide lanes and being more dangerous, yeah, maybe they have wider lanes but wherever there's 3 wide lanes on a road, there's 7 lanes of traffic on it; all honking their horns and yelling at each other.  Lanes mean nothing to them.

[AutobahnSHO]

It makes sense, people pay more attention when cars are closer together.  Also, with wider lanes, people tend to wander; at least around here.  Drivers often infringe on the next lane for no reason.

That they mention Delhi though as having wide lanes and being more dangerous, yeah, maybe they have wider lanes but wherever there's 3 wide lanes on a road, there's 7 lanes of traffic on it; all honking their horns and yelling at each other.  Lanes mean nothing to them.

Craziness. My first time driving into Paris was in a rental car I was paranoid about, and the one-lane exit from one freeway to the "beltway" had 3 lanes of traffic on it.

[12,000 RPM]

Narrow lanes are usually common in cities that are generally older and more pedestrian friendly in the first place.

Wider lanes are much less stressful to drive on, so this won't convince me to make them narrower. You can reduce speed limits and still have wider lanes...

You just proved the article right lol.

Speed limits are completely irrelevant. There is no traffic law enforcement in much of the country, so people drive at whatever speed and in whatever lane they like. Narrower lanes (where feasible/logical) trick people into slowing down.

[Morris Minor]

The lane widths on some of the freeways going into Atlanta are high. Multi-lanes of traffic, billiard table-smooth, with all the visual cues for doing  triple digit speeds.  Speed limits are high too, well into the urban area.

I've long though that a ruthlessly-enforced low urban speed limit would move more traffic by reducing stop-go surging. Maybe couple that with the narrower lanes.

[Morris Minor]

This was what I was going to say.

Roads that are a little bit "unsafe/ predictable" cause drivers to be more cautious than ones that "feel" safer/faster. Saw some other study on it.

That's why I favor roundabouts; they force drivers to engage.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I like wide lanes because I can pass slow traffic without needing another lane.

[MX793]

Wide lanes induce people to drive faster. FL has some roads which are notorious killers, because they paved huge boulevards with wide lanes straight through school zones. The predictable result was that people were hitting kids at 50mph.

Humans are stupid and are more guided by their amygdalas than road signs.

The fact that Florida is flat as a board doesn't help either.  Lots of crashes because people pulled out in front of a car, often because they had difficulty gauging how far away the oncoming vehicle actually was due to roads being arrow-straight and perfectly flat.

[Eye of the Tiger]

The fact that Florida is flat as a board doesn't help either.  Lots of crashes because people pulled out in front of a car, often because they had difficulty gauging how far away the oncoming vehicle actually was due to roads being arrow-straight and perfectly flat.

That is the worst reason ever to have a crash.

[BimmerM3]

Wide lanes induce people to drive faster. FL has some roads which are notorious killers, because they paved huge boulevards with wide lanes straight through school zones. The predictable result was that people were hitting kids at 50mph.

Humans are stupid and are more guided by their amygdalas than road signs.

Sure, but it seems like there are better ways to improve pedestrian safety than to literally stress the general population into submission.

[BimmerM3]

That they mention Delhi though as having wide lanes and being more dangerous, yeah, maybe they have wider lanes but wherever there's 3 wide lanes on a road, there's 7 lanes of traffic on it; all honking their horns and yelling at each other.  Lanes mean nothing to them.

Exactly. Make the lanes whatever width you want - New Delhi will probably still be more dangerous than Copenhagen.

[CaminoRacer]

Sure, but it seems like there are better ways to improve pedestrian safety than to literally stress the general population into submission.

+1

[12,000 RPM]

Sure, but it seems like there are better ways to improve pedestrian safety than to literally stress the general population into submission.

Such as?

American drivers are increasingly disengaged, which is making the roads more dangerous. I'd rather drivers be a little more "stressed" and engaged if it means higher road safety.

[CaminoRacer]

Such as?

American drivers are increasingly disengaged, which is making the roads more dangerous. I'd rather drivers be a little more "stressed" and engaged if it means higher road safety.

Better pedestrian crossings? Especially making sure they match the size of the road and number of pedestrians.

[12,000 RPM]

Unless those crossings slow drivers down.... they're not gonna do much to slow drivers down.... which seems to be the main issue.

[CaminoRacer]

A red light? Lol

[veeman]

When there's one lane each bidirectional traffic (one lane of traffic going in one direction and an adjacent lane of traffic going in the opposite direction, without a physical lane divider or median) i sure as hell don't want more narrow lanes. Wider is better.

[FoMoJo]

When there's one lane each bidirectional traffic (one lane of traffic going in one direction and an adjacent lane of traffic going in the opposite direction, without a physical lane divider or median) i sure as hell don't want more narrow lanes. Wider is better.

Many back-country/rural roads up here are sort of one and a half lanes; you occupy about two thirds of the road until you see someone coming in the opposite direction and then you pull over until one side of the car is pretty much on the verge.  No need to slow down and you get past with no real drama.  Drivers are just more focused on what's happening.  Highways around where we live, Mississauga, you many be familiar, have lanes that are quite wide, yet people are wandering all over the place on them.  Crashes happen with no logical reason other than lack of attention.  I often get worried that someone in the other lane may just wander over and bump me in the side.

[Laconian]

Sure, but it seems like there are better ways to improve pedestrian safety than to literally stress the general population into submission.

Designing to keep people's vigilance raised in areas which demand vigilance seems like a good thing to me. And TFA bears that out with statistics?

[BimmerM3]

Such as?

Ideally pedestrian bridges/tunnels, but Boulder has a bunch of crosswalks with bright flashy lights that seem to work really well.

[FoMoJo]

Multi lane roads, I find, also confuse many drivers.  When turning onto them from a cross street, they sometimes can't seem to tell which lane the cars approaching them are in.  It's happened to me a few times, once almost being a serious collision.  I was blasting along the curb lane on a local three lane 'parkway' when a driver, a woman in this case, from a side street casually pulled out a couple of hundred feet in front of me.  As the conditions were quite damp, I came skiddering to a halt feet from her door after she had slammed on her brakes halfway into my lane.  She saw me coming, but it didn't register with her what lane I was in.  Scared the hell out of my wife.

[Morris Minor]

People don't like underpasses & tunnels because of the cover they give to bad guys.

[Laconian]

Ideally pedestrian bridges/tunnels, but Boulder has a bunch of crosswalks with bright flashy lights that seem to work really well.

Kirkland OD'd on that. Safety sign blindness is a real phenomenon. You need to put signs up where they're critical, but design to send unconscious cues for everything that's just sub-critical, because otherwise people become numb to signage and ignore the important things.

[FoMoJo]

Ideally pedestrian bridges/tunnels, but Boulder has a bunch of crosswalks with bright flashy lights that seem to work really well.

Our crosswalks here, seems most of them, have flashing amber lights when the pedestrian presses the button before crossing.