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Auto Talk => General Automotive => Topic started by: 12,000 RPM on November 15, 2015, 06:35:15 PM

Title: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 15, 2015, 06:35:15 PM
So this video popped up in my YT subscription feed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5_K2P49hyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5_K2P49hyw)

And it got me wondering. Hmmm. OK. So GDI-T engines are prone to blow up at the precise point they are designed to run optimally. Anyone know about this?

Found an interesting site explaining GDI issues.

http://pceo.com/GDI_and_Turbocharging_Rinek (http://pceo.com/GDI_and_Turbocharging_Rinek)

(http://pceo.com/sites/default/files/engine_speed_rpm.png)

Now while it was cool as hell to surf what felt like a massive torque wave in the Golf 1.8T in low revs and still get ~30 MPG I am not sure this is worth it. Driving my Civic the same way on the same route I get the same gas mileage with a run of the mill port injected shittily geared NA motor.
Title: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: MrH on November 15, 2015, 06:36:27 PM
Didn't even watch the video, but that kid is an idiot. Why do you subscribe to him?
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 15, 2015, 08:01:12 PM
I like car reviews :huh:

I know he was a little shit on the BRZ forums or w/e.... but that shit aint got nothin to do with me :lol:
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: MX793 on November 15, 2015, 08:33:18 PM
Engine knock is a risk when lugging naturally aspirated engines in low RPM, high load situations as well.  GDI-Ts may be even more prone to it, but it's not unique to that engine configuration.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: GoCougs on November 15, 2015, 11:57:50 PM
Ha! I actually subscribed to that channel and I like it. Just a regular guy, with lots of enthusiasm, testing regular/attainable cars.

AFTERMARKET TUNES ON F/I BLOW MOTORS. ALL STOP. It has nothing to do with 6th gear or any of that other nonsense. Ford isn't responsible for failures owing to tunes.

You can't "lug" a modern engine to any great extent owing to throttle-by-wire. The ECU knows lugging conditions and won't let the throttle open much (or to the extent dictated by gas pedal position).

Also, the danger with lugging isn't detonation but not enough oil pressure to handle the loads on the rod and main bearings.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 04:45:29 AM
This is happening on stock cars too bro. Good point about oil pressure. Is it time for mechanically decoupled oil pumps?
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: Eye of the Tiger on November 16, 2015, 05:44:29 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 04:45:29 AM
This is happening on stock cars too bro. Good point about oil pressure. Is it time for mechanically decoupled oil pumps?

This is a bad idea. Maybe just a secondary pump that disengages at a 1450 RPM or so.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 07:25:07 AM
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 16, 2015, 05:44:29 AM
This is a bad idea. Maybe just a secondary pump that disengages at a 1450 RPM or so.
Yea maybe a secondary pump would to. Twin pump with intercooler. JFC when did cars get so complicated.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: Eye of the Tiger on November 16, 2015, 07:41:30 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 07:25:07 AM
Yea maybe a secondary pump would to. Twin pump with intercooler. JFC when did cars get so complicated.

Maybe a small Wankel engine could run an electric-CVT that variably charges a battery bank, and spins a secondary oil pump that pumps oil into both the Wankel engine and the primary piston engine under variable conditions.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: CaminoRacer on November 16, 2015, 07:43:36 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 07:25:07 AM
Yea maybe a secondary pump would to. Twin pump with intercooler. JFC when did cars get so complicated.

http://www.accusump.com/ (http://www.accusump.com/)
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 07:58:58 AM
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 16, 2015, 07:41:30 AM
Maybe a small Wankel engine could run an electric-CVT that variably charges a battery bank, and spins a secondary oil pump that pumps oil into both the Wankel engine and the primary piston engine under variable conditions.
The screams from the service bays are reaching a deafening crescendo
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: Eye of the Tiger on November 16, 2015, 01:40:47 PM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 07:58:58 AM
The screams from the service bays are reaching a deafening crescendo

It would be like a Ferrari, with two transmissions. The Wankel/eCVT would go in back, and the standard T-GDI engine with whatever transaxle up front. 

A series of oil lines would have to run from front-to-back for the oiling system, and it might be best to have at least two oil tanks. One primary in back for the Wankel to pump and burn through, and one up front to make sure the piston engine always has some in reserve.

There should be a seven-core radiator up front behind a Peterbuilt grille. Three pairs of coolant pipes must run from front to back in order to cool the Wankel/eCVT/batteries with the front mounted radiator. Liquid cooling is best  after all.

Everything will be coordinated and synchronized with a smartphone app to provide seemless power to all four wheels. USB cable not included.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 02:22:33 PM
I dont know if you are fucking around or not, but Peich seriously had pretty much this exact setup in mind for the next Phaeton. He wanted to get revenge on the Japanese for capitalizing on rotaries in ways the Germans couldn't (and as a fuck you for losing the war). "Your little engine is only good fahr oil pump in 200 thauusand dollar Volksvagen"
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: AutobahnSHO on November 16, 2015, 03:25:49 PM
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 16, 2015, 01:40:47 PM
It would be like a Ferrari, with two transmissions. The Wankel/eCVT would go in back, and the standard T-GDI engine with whatever transaxle up front. 

A series of oil lines would have to run from front-to-back for the oiling system, and it might be best to have at least two oil tanks. One primary in back for the Wankel to pump and burn through, and one up front to make sure the piston engine always has some in reserve.

There should be a seven-core radiator up front behind a Peterbuilt grille. Three pairs of coolant pipes must run from front to back in order to cool the Wankel/eCVT/batteries with the front mounted radiator. Liquid cooling is best  after all.

Everything will be coordinated and synchronized with a smartphone app to provide seemless power to all four wheels. USB cable not included.


don't forget hybrid stuffs. Giant batteries and generators and stuffs.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: Eye of the Tiger on November 17, 2015, 06:18:22 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 02:22:33 PM
I dont know if you are fucking around or not, but Peich seriously had pretty much this exact setup in mind for the next Phaeton. He wanted to get revenge on the Japanese for capitalizing on rotaries in ways the Germans couldn't (and as a fuck you for losing the war). "Your little engine is only good fahr oil pump in 200 thauusand dollar Volksvagen"

I was just making shit up. That VW guy sounds like a nutjob :lol:
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 17, 2015, 06:44:23 AM
He wasnt going to do that but yea Piech is the brain child behind the Phaeton and I think the Veyron too. He is like an internet auto executive come to life
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: Eye of the Tiger on November 17, 2015, 06:49:03 AM
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 17, 2015, 06:44:23 AM
He wasnt going to do that but yea Piech is the brain child behind the Phaeton and I think the Veyron too. He is like an internet auto executive come to life

I wonder if he needs an assistant... or an enabler.
Title: Re: GDI, turbocharging, and the mother of unintended consequences
Post by: 12,000 RPM on November 17, 2015, 09:41:58 AM
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 17, 2015, 06:49:03 AM
I wonder if he needs an assistant... or an enabler.
I know he has like eight baby mamas. He don't give a scheissel