One of the few people in this country with some sense remaining.
Alpina Is Strongly Against Imposing Speed Limits On All Autobahns
Alpina has expressed its concerns about the introduction of speed limiters and the possible end of de-restricted German Autobahns.
The German car manufacturer makes some of the fastest sedans and SUVs on the planet, all of which are designed to storm down the Autobahn in supreme comfort. It's no surprise, then, that chief executive Andreas Bovensiepen believes limiting speeds of new cars across Europe could have detrimental effects on the industry.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/02/84a2142d-2020-alpina-b7-xdrive-2.jpg)
"Initially we'd expect a dip in sales (if such legislation was put in place). In the first place it will hurt every fast-car manufacturer... but I think ultimately people will still want to buy performance cars. It's like buying an expensive watch; I think people will always enjoy buying expensive, fast cars," he told Which Car.
Although Bovensiepen doesn't think such regulations would kill the industry of high-performance cars, he does stress that speed limits could discourage car manufacturers from investing heavily in new and innovative suspension and tire technologies.
"If there are speed limiters I think the majority of cars will get a much lower quality in suspension," he said. "The German manufactures will say 'oh, why should we invest so much money in suspension if there's hardly any difference if you can go no faster than 120km/h'. In that case you don't need five-link suspension etc."
"If we have lower speed limits then the focus of tire tech could shift to be entirely more on durability and not grip. So they'll make harder compounds with less rolling resistance, but with less grip on a wet surface. So maybe you have more accidents," Bovensiepen added.
Germany has been toying with the idea of abandoning de-restricted autobahns for quite some time, but no final decision has been made yet.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/08/alpina-is-strongly-against-imposing-speed-limits-on-all-autobahns/
Whats logical about unlimited speed limits with increasingly powerful cars?
Maybe Alpina should figure out how to make cars that are fun to drive below 130km/h
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 11, 2019, 12:15:44 PM
Whats logical about unlimited speed limits with increasingly powerful cars?
The idiots in charge want to saddle us with a 120 km/h speed limit. That's slow. If they must punish us with speed limits, 150-160 km/h would be better. 120 km/h is just slow, especially for consistent long trips.
Then lobby your EU representatives. You're not going to do much to negotiate with them on CarSPIN
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2019, 05:03:42 AM
Then lobby your EU representatives. You're not going to do much to negotiate with them on CarSPIN
:rolleyes:
It's almost as if we should stop talking about everything here because it's useless.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 14, 2019, 03:07:21 AM
The idiots in charge want to saddle us with a 120 km/h speed limit. That's slow. If they must punish us with speed limits, 150-160 km/h would be better. 120 km/h is just slow, especially for consistent long trips.
120km/h is definitely slow. Germany is fairly large for a European country, so 120 seems illogical, especially as more modern cars (ICE, EV, or otherwise) are very capable of reaching and sustaining higher speeds with relative efficiency (and safety).
120 kph is 74 mph. Most states in the US (particularly in the Northeast, which is the part of the US most like Germany) have a 70 mph speed limit.
I'd want to keep the limitless sections too, but 120kph speed limit is reasonable (if you are going to have one).
Quote from: SJ_GTI on August 14, 2019, 10:32:35 AM
120 kph is 74 mph. Most states in the US (particularly in the Northeast, which is the part of the US most like Germany) have a 70 mph speed limit.
I'd want to keep the limitless sections too, but 120kph speed limit is reasonable (if you are going to have one).
Oh, yeah. I guess 120 isn't bad...for some reason I was thinking 120km/h was 62mph...but that's 100km/h. Brain fart.
I'm just speculating and have never been to Germany but a change from large sections of the autobahn having no speed limit to a max 120 km/hr speed limit is forcing a fundamental change in German car culture. The silent majority may not be so silent anymore. I don't know though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2019, 05:03:42 AM
Then lobby your EU representatives. You're not going to do much to negotiate with them on CarSPIN
This is actually an internal matter. If the EU had their way we'd have been bored to death at 120-130 km/h for decades now.
What the freedom to bear arms is to Americans is our freedom to speed. And if this gets attacked by all the Greenies etc. then to me it feels like one of the few freedoms we can still enjoy in this increasingly restrictive country is on the line. I love driving fast but I don't do it all the time. I actually do tend to cruise at 130-140 km/h a lot which is a nice blend between speed and good gas mileage. But 120 km/h is just slow.
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 14, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
120km/h is definitely slow. Germany is fairly large for a European country, so 120 seems illogical, especially as more modern cars (ICE, EV, or otherwise) are very capable of reaching and sustaining higher speeds with relative efficiency (and safety).
Exactly. 120 km/h is really slow (for us). Besides, most Germans will happily cruise at 120-130 km/h; nobody is forcing them to drive faster. And the majority of drivers tend to stay in the 120-130 km/h region. In short, very few people actually speed. There is no need for a blanket 120 km/h speed limit. But since Germany is very lefty at the moment those few lefty politicians calling for speed limits want them out of ideological reasons, and probably also to annoy some motorists with powerful cars.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 14, 2019, 11:38:19 AM
What the freedom to bear arms is to Americans is our freedom to speed.
:confused: :banghead: :nutty: :facepalm:
Quote from: NomisR on August 14, 2019, 10:09:25 AM
:rolleyes:
It's almost as if we should stop talking about everything here because it's useless.
Every thread here doesn't have to be an opportunity for you to whine about the govt
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 14, 2019, 11:38:19 AM
This is actually an internal matter. If the EU had their way we'd have been bored to death at 120-130 km/h for decades now.
What the freedom to bear arms is to Americans is our freedom to speed. And if this gets attacked by all the Greenies etc. then to me it feels like one of the few freedoms we can still enjoy in this increasingly restrictive country is on the line. I love driving fast but I don't do it all the time. I actually do tend to cruise at 130-140 km/h a lot which is a nice blend between speed and good gas mileage. But 120 km/h is just slow.
That's usually my cruising speed as well. How strict are you guys on going over the speed limit?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
:confused: :banghead: :nutty: :facepalm:
Well it's true. You guys grew up with the notion that it's ok to own weapons as long as you use them responsibly.
The same is true of Germans and speeding on the Autobahn. Now this freedom is under threat thanks to greenhouse emissions hysteria, a popular Green Party and a very lefty political scene.
Quote from: NomisR on August 14, 2019, 11:46:54 AM
That's usually my cruising speed as well. How strict are you guys on going over the speed limit?
This is important to keep in mind as well.
Here in NJ, most highways are actually 65 mph (105 kph), but functionally you will not get bothered as long as you keep it under ~75 mph (~120 kph). On the turnpike (main highway between Philly and NYC) the pace of traffic is usually in the range of 80-90 mph (130-145 kph).
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 14, 2019, 11:48:39 AM
Well it's true. You guys grew up with the notion that it's ok to own weapons as long as you use them responsibly.
The same is true of Germans and speeding on the Autobahn. Now this freedom is under threat thanks to greenhouse emissions hysteria, a popular Green Party and a very lefty political scene.
IMO Germans are better at shouldering the responsibility than we are with guns. The rules of driving in Germany are strict, but you guys rise to the challenge and treat it with respect.
There are many responsible gun owners in the USA, but there are a lot of fuckups who abuse the right too, and they don't suffer consequences for it
because freedom.
Quote from: Laconian on August 14, 2019, 09:59:23 PM
IMO Germans are better at shouldering the responsibility than we are with guns. The rules of driving in Germany are strict, but you guys rise to the challenge and treat it with respect.
That is for the most part true, but as you said it takes a few to ruin a party.
We do have issues with severe speeders (even in speed-limited zones), but they are the minority. In my opinion these drivers should simply be fined and given driving bans of one or two months - and more if they are repeat offenders.
Then there are the slow pokes who on three lane highways for some reason feel the need to occupy the middle lane and ruin the flow of traffic. The rules are simple: the Autobahn is essentially one lane, the right lane. The left (or middle lane) is to be used solely for overtaking. If you're driving very fast you are still expected to use the right lane. These middle-lane drivers tend to drive very slow and also abruptly change lanes without signaling. They are dangerous. And these are the people who probably demand speed limits because their crap driving creates dangerous situations and they wonder why the guy behind them is so pissed off at them...
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 15, 2019, 03:38:41 AM
That is for the most part true, but as you said it takes a few to ruin a party.
We do have issues with severe speeders (even in speed-limited zones), but they are the minority. In my opinion these drivers should simply be fined and given driving bans of one or two months - and more if they are repeat offenders.
Then there are the slow pokes who on three lane highways for some reason feel the need to occupy the middle lane and ruin the flow of traffic. The rules are simple: the Autobahn is essentially one lane, the right lane. The left (or middle lane) is to be used solely for overtaking. If you're driving very fast you are still expected to use the right lane. These middle-lane drivers tend to drive very slow and also abruptly change lanes without signaling. They are dangerous. And these are the people who probably demand speed limits because their crap driving creates dangerous situations and they wonder why the guy behind them is so pissed off at them...
So what's the left most lane for?
Quote from: NomisR on August 15, 2019, 08:08:49 AM
So what's the left most lane for?
For overtaking a car in the middle lane that is overtaking a slower car on the right lane. ;)
Overtaking on the right is illegal and severely punished.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBKjcsSC/Untitled-1.jpg)
120 km/h is dog slow. I get bored to death driving on american highways and I usually drive at 80-85 mph. Even that is excruciating.
Here I can cruise at 180-220kph on the open highway.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on August 15, 2019, 11:25:32 AM
120 km/h is dog slow. I get bored to death driving on american highways and I usually drive at 80-85 mph. Even that is excruciating.
Here I can cruise at 180-220kph on the open highway.
#reasonstomovetomexico
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 15, 2019, 09:36:37 AM
For overtaking a car in the middle lane that is overtaking a slower car on the right lane. ;)
Overtaking on the right is illegal and severely punished.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBKjcsSC/Untitled-1.jpg)
In the US, if you don't overtake on the right, you're not passing anyone. Nobody is letting you pass, they will lane camp all day long right driving side by side with another car immediately to their right. I don't know how many one can drive like that and be comfortable that your escape route is blocked but apparently they are. They would effectively create a rolling roadblock and not give a shit.
I simply drive in the right time at all time only get into other lanes if necessary. I pass on the right because those people are driving way too slow anyways. There's no negative consequence for driving too slow in the passing lane.
Quote from: NomisR on August 15, 2019, 02:19:25 PM
In the US, if you don't overtake on the right, you're not passing anyone. Nobody is letting you pass, they will lane camp all day long right driving side by side with another car immediately to their right. I don't know how many one can drive like that and be comfortable that your escape route is blocked but apparently they are. They would effectively create a rolling roadblock and not give a shit.
I simply drive in the right time at all time only get into other lanes if necessary. I pass on the right because those people are driving way too slow anyways. There's no negative consequence for driving too slow in the passing lane.
Here there are consequences for hogging the left lane and for overtaking on the right. The left lanes are really only intended for overtaking slower right-lane traffic. Essentially the Autobahn is a "one lane highway". Of course, during traffic jams it is expected that you occupy all lanes but are ready to produce a rescue lane for ambulances etc. in case of an emergency. And that's something which people have forgotten here. I'm telling you guys the new generation of German drivers are morons.
It's not legal to left lane camp here, but nobody enforces it
I drive about 400 miles a week and maybe see 1-2 people pulled over a month
On rural freeways the lane discipline is much better - people generally stay out of the left lane or move over if you come up behind them. It's the 3+ lane urban freeways that have 0 lane discipline. Here in Utah I frequently watch people get on the freeway and immediately move all the way to the left, even if the right lanes are completely clear. :facepalm:
In Chicago and the surrounding highways about 10/15 miles out of the city there is usually way too much traffic and every lane is usually packed. As you start getting out of the city and the highways clear up, you start seeing 4 lane highways with people camping the left lanes and its just so frustrating. In general, European drivers are much better than American drivers, although they can also be much more aggressive.
Quote from: Xer0 on August 16, 2019, 09:33:26 AM
In Chicago and the surrounding highways about 10/15 miles out of the city there is usually way too much traffic and every lane is usually packed. As you start getting out of the city and the highways clear up, you start seeing 4 lane highways with people camping the left lanes and its just so frustrating. In general, European drivers are much better than American drivers, although they can also be much more aggressive.
The chaos caused by left lane camping can be really dangerous.
Quote from: Xer0 on August 16, 2019, 09:33:26 AM
In Chicago and the surrounding highways about 10/15 miles out of the city there is usually way too much traffic and every lane is usually packed. As you start getting out of the city and the highways clear up, you start seeing 4 lane highways with people camping the left lanes and its just so frustrating. In general, European drivers are much better than American drivers, although they can also be much more aggressive.
I respect European drivers' aggression as I know there is skill to back it. Europe was the only place I was nowhere near the fastest driver on the road. It was actually really relaxing
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 16, 2019, 07:14:30 AM
It's not legal to left lane camp here, but nobody enforces it
I drive about 400 miles a week and maybe see 1-2 people pulled over a month
GA had a similar law but IIRC, it was only enforceable if the offender was going under the speed limit, which is almost never the case with urban left lane campers because the speed limits are too low to begin with.
I watched a police officer here in Utah pull up behind a left lane camper and turn his lights on. The guy changed one lane to the right and waited to see if the officer was going to pass. When the officer changed lanes with him the guy gradually moved over to the far right lane at which time the police officer moved to the left and passed him. Hopefully the guy got the hint.
I wish there was a law for that in CA, because i would see people driving in the left lane while going 45 fucking MPH. I would actively honk at them while passing to show my dissatisfaction
Yea I have stopped flashing and honking left lane campers, its just not worth not making it home to my family here
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 16, 2019, 08:08:01 PM
Yea I have stopped flashing and honking left lane campers, its just not worth not making it home to my family here
Somehow, a flash of the lights or tooot of the horn results in homocidal road rage far too often. I will never understand it. Just drive.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on August 16, 2019, 09:16:38 PM
Somehow, a flash of the lights or tooot of the horn results in homocidal road rage far too often. I will never understand it. Just drive.
+1 dummies are sometimes dangerous dummies.
This is 'murica... You should feel safer when the idiot that just cut you off then points a gun at you
We have our share of left lane campers nowadays. I'm telling you the German driving schools ain't what they used to be. And the highway patrol seems to do nothing about it. :frown:
It's less the school's fault and more highway patrol's lack of enforcement.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 20, 2019, 06:53:31 AM
It's less the school's fault and more highway patrol's lack of enforcement.
Well it is the job of the driving schools to teach people the rules of the Autobahn. And the rules are clear; the Autobahn is essentially a one-lane-road, of which the left lane(s) are to only be used to overtake. It's that simple.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 20, 2019, 10:01:33 AM
Well it is the job of the driving schools to teach people the rules of the Autobahn. And the rules are clear; the Autobahn is essentially a one-lane-road, of which the left lane(s) are to only be used to overtake. It's that simple.
I get it, but i feel like this is really a German way of thinking with regard to rules I mean. :lol:
Once a certain level of traffic is reached, left lane campers are inevitable no matter how much training the drivers have. It's simply an organization problem and not solved well by individual humans.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 20, 2019, 10:56:37 AM
Once a certain level of traffic is reached, left lane campers are inevitable no matter how much training the drivers have. It's simply an organization problem and not solved well by individual humans.
Sure at some point, but I definitely see a lot of left lane campers in situations where they really are blocking traffic. And they usually seem to have no idea that what they're doing is wrong.
I think the bigger issue is that it only takes one left lane camper to screw up traffic for an entire roadway.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 20, 2019, 10:01:33 AM
Well it is the job of the driving schools to teach people the rules of the Autobahn. And the rules are clear; the Autobahn is essentially a one-lane-road, of which the left lane(s) are to only be used to overtake. It's that simple.
I'm sure people know the rules of the road. But with no enforcement they have little reason to follow them. Its on highway police. We have the same exact problem here.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on August 20, 2019, 11:39:02 AM
Sure at some point, but I definitely see a lot of left lane campers in situations where they really are blocking traffic. And they usually seem to have no idea that what they're doing is wrong.
I think the bigger issue is that it only takes one left lane camper to screw up traffic for an entire roadway.
I feel like latter is usually the case. Lane campers creating a traffic situation which compounds itself.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on August 20, 2019, 11:39:02 AM
Sure at some point, but I definitely see a lot of left lane campers in situations where they really are blocking traffic. And they usually seem to have no idea that what they're doing is wrong.
I think the bigger issue is that it only takes one left lane camper to screw up traffic for an entire roadway.
Quote from: NomisR on August 20, 2019, 11:45:15 AM
I feel like latter is usually the case. Lane campers creating a traffic situation which compounds itself.
I never see anyone going under 70 in the left lane here in Utah, which is the speed limit. I highly doubt people going the speed limit (instead of speeding) is creating traffic jams. Maybe it's different in other places, but that's my observations here.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 20, 2019, 02:54:45 PM
I never see anyone going under 70 in the left lane here in Utah, which is the speed limit. I highly doubt people going the speed limit (instead of speeding) is creating traffic jams. Maybe it's different in other places, but that's my observations here.
Definitely different in other areas. :lol:
IMO, the left lane campers who are going exactly the speed limit are usually self-righteous assholes who think they're performing some sort of public service by preventing speeders. But really they're making the road more dangerous as faster drivers have to weave around them and pass on the right.
That said, I think the people who piss me off the most are moderately fast drivers who have to pass the really slow people on the right, but then get back in the left lane to cruise even when the right lane is open. Like... you JUST had to go around someone else... why would you make other people do the same thing???????
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 20, 2019, 02:54:45 PM
I never see anyone going under 70 in the left lane here in Utah, which is the speed limit. I highly doubt people going the speed limit (instead of speeding) is creating traffic jams. Maybe it's different in other places, but that's my observations here.
If all lanes go the speed limit it is really hard to change lanes in congested traffic. Changing lanes is easier if there is a speed differential between each lane. Maybe there should be graduated speed limit difference from slow lane on the right to fast lane on the left with the speed limit increasing by 5mph from lane to lane.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 20, 2019, 02:54:45 PM
I never see anyone going under 70 in the left lane here in Utah, which is the speed limit. I highly doubt people going the speed limit (instead of speeding) is creating traffic jams. Maybe it's different in other places, but that's my observations here.
Definitely a problem in California. The freeway near where I live is a 4 lane + 1 HOV lane each way so total 10 lanes where a section of it is going up hill. On the uphill section, you would see people camping in the left lane, sometimes going significantly under 65 mph (limit) yet refuses to move over.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on August 20, 2019, 03:07:19 PM
IMO, the left lane campers who are going exactly the speed limit are usually self-righteous assholes who think they're performing some sort of public service by preventing speeders. But really they're making the road more dangerous as faster drivers have to weave around them and pass on the right.
I've also never really seen that. Most campers seem to just be oblivious. I'm not sure how you would determine they were doing it on purpose.
The biggest problem I see in Utah is people getting on the freeway and immediately merging into the 2 left-most lanes for no reason. There can be absolutely no one in front of them in the right lanes and they'll still move to the left. They don't hold people up behind them, but they're on the left when they don't need to be.
Or they'll change lanes from one middle lane to another middle lane for no reason (no one in front of them, obviously not passing anyone or needing to get off at an upcoming exit)
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 20, 2019, 04:12:30 PM
The biggest problem I see in Utah is people getting on the freeway and immediately merging into the 2 left-most lanes for no reason. There can be absolutely no one in front of them in the right lanes and they'll still move to the left. They don't hold people up behind them, but they're on the left when they don't need to be.
Or they'll change lanes from one middle lane to another middle lane for no reason (no one in front of them, obviously not passing anyone or needing to get off at an upcoming exit)
Totally fucktarded people. What the hell is going through theor heads?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on August 20, 2019, 04:07:00 PM
I've also never really seen that. Most campers seem to just be oblivious. I'm not sure how you would determine they were doing it on purpose.
After you finally pass them they chase you down and try to murder you.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 20, 2019, 11:43:04 AM
I'm sure people know the rules of the road. But with no enforcement they have little reason to follow them. Its on highway police. We have the same exact problem here.
Pretty much. In the past if the police caught you not following the driving rules you would often be forced to go back to driving school and learn about your mistake(s). It was mandatory. I have no idea if this is still done today. My guess would be no given how horrible the driving quality here has become.
Installed this game on my iPad last night. It's called Driving Zone Germany and you can have fun speeding in a "German town" or on the "Autobahn" at different times and seasons (winter etc.). Race tracks are available but you need to "pay" to drive on them.
You can only drive German cars and the only car you can drive at the beginning is a classic Volkswagen Beetle. As you make more money you can "upgrade" to a piece of crap Opel Vectra from the 1990s, and then an E30 BMW 3er. So far I've bought the Opel Vectra, BMW E30 and BMW E34 5er. Manual or automatic transmissions are available for all cars, though the controls are crap so you are better off with the automatic. You can customize your car color and you can select the drivetrain layout for your car - AWD, FWD or RWD. So you can literally make your E30 3er FWD or your classic Beetle AWD. Funny shit. :lol:
Some screenshots! There's an interior and external view. You can also look around the interior...
(https://i.postimg.cc/SKq4Px1w/0-CBB5-BC0-A61-E-4-C14-9764-CFF24-B947345.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Xq2XjymG/2914-B2-B6-E4-B5-4155-8663-6-D212-DEEF096.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zDMrrjPw/33-BE2-F80-1307-4450-B990-7647-E0-B1-BFCE.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFyvX9Lr/57-F68694-82-E4-4-C26-8-F96-B728932-DCC29.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vBHP1JD1/58-EA715-D-27-B8-432-D-9-D30-D22579834-BD1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cxnd05N5/ED45-A554-C8-CB-40-D0-98-DB-A552-AC02-DE8-F.png)