Alpina Is Strongly Against Imposing Speed Limits On All Autobahns

Started by cawimmer430, August 11, 2019, 08:28:07 AM

cawimmer430

One of the few people in this country with some sense remaining.



Alpina Is Strongly Against Imposing Speed Limits On All Autobahns

Alpina has expressed its concerns about the introduction of speed limiters and the possible end of de-restricted German Autobahns.

The German car manufacturer makes some of the fastest sedans and SUVs on the planet, all of which are designed to storm down the Autobahn in supreme comfort. It's no surprise, then, that chief executive Andreas Bovensiepen believes limiting speeds of new cars across Europe could have detrimental effects on the industry.



"Initially we'd expect a dip in sales (if such legislation was put in place). In the first place it will hurt every fast-car manufacturer... but I think ultimately people will still want to buy performance cars. It's like buying an expensive watch; I think people will always enjoy buying expensive, fast cars," he told Which Car.

Although Bovensiepen doesn't think such regulations would kill the industry of high-performance cars, he does stress that speed limits could discourage car manufacturers from investing heavily in new and innovative suspension and tire technologies.

"If there are speed limiters I think the majority of cars will get a much lower quality in suspension," he said. "The German manufactures will say 'oh, why should we invest so much money in suspension if there's hardly any difference if you can go no faster than 120km/h'. In that case you don't need five-link suspension etc."

"If we have lower speed limits then the focus of tire tech could shift to be entirely more on durability and not grip. So they'll make harder compounds with less rolling resistance, but with less grip on a wet surface. So maybe you have more accidents," Bovensiepen added.

Germany has been toying with the idea of abandoning de-restricted autobahns for quite some time, but no final decision has been made yet.



Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/08/alpina-is-strongly-against-imposing-speed-limits-on-all-autobahns/
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12,000 RPM

Whats logical about unlimited speed limits with increasingly powerful cars?

Maybe Alpina should figure out how to make cars that are fun to drive below 130km/h
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cawimmer430

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 11, 2019, 12:15:44 PM
Whats logical about unlimited speed limits with increasingly powerful cars?

The idiots in charge want to saddle us with a 120 km/h speed limit. That's slow. If they must punish us with speed limits, 150-160 km/h would be better. 120 km/h is just slow, especially for consistent long trips.
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12,000 RPM

Then lobby your EU representatives. You're not going to do much to negotiate with them on CarSPIN
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NomisR

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2019, 05:03:42 AM
Then lobby your EU representatives. You're not going to do much to negotiate with them on CarSPIN

:rolleyes:

It's almost as if we should stop talking about everything here because it's useless. 

giant_mtb

Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 14, 2019, 03:07:21 AM
The idiots in charge want to saddle us with a 120 km/h speed limit. That's slow. If they must punish us with speed limits, 150-160 km/h would be better. 120 km/h is just slow, especially for consistent long trips.

120km/h is definitely slow.  Germany is fairly large for a European country, so 120 seems illogical, especially as more modern cars (ICE, EV, or otherwise) are very capable of reaching and sustaining higher speeds with relative efficiency (and safety).

SJ_GTI

120 kph is 74 mph. Most states in the US (particularly in the Northeast, which is the part of the US most like Germany) have a 70 mph speed limit.

I'd want to keep the limitless sections too, but 120kph speed limit is reasonable (if you are going to have one).

giant_mtb

Quote from: SJ_GTI on August 14, 2019, 10:32:35 AM
120 kph is 74 mph. Most states in the US (particularly in the Northeast, which is the part of the US most like Germany) have a 70 mph speed limit.

I'd want to keep the limitless sections too, but 120kph speed limit is reasonable (if you are going to have one).

Oh, yeah.  I guess 120 isn't bad...for some reason I was thinking 120km/h was 62mph...but that's 100km/h.  Brain fart.

veeman

I'm just speculating and have never been to Germany but a change from large sections of the autobahn having no speed limit to a max 120 km/hr speed limit is forcing a fundamental change in German car culture.  The silent majority may not be so silent anymore.  I don't know though. 

cawimmer430

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2019, 05:03:42 AM
Then lobby your EU representatives. You're not going to do much to negotiate with them on CarSPIN

This is actually an internal matter. If the EU had their way we'd have been bored to death at 120-130 km/h for decades now.

What the freedom to bear arms is to Americans is our freedom to speed. And if this gets attacked by all the Greenies etc. then to me it feels like one of the few freedoms we can still enjoy in this increasingly restrictive country is on the line. I love driving fast but I don't do it all the time. I actually do tend to cruise at 130-140 km/h a lot which is a nice blend between speed and good gas mileage. But 120 km/h is just slow.
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cawimmer430

Quote from: giant_mtb on August 14, 2019, 10:27:30 AM
120km/h is definitely slow.  Germany is fairly large for a European country, so 120 seems illogical, especially as more modern cars (ICE, EV, or otherwise) are very capable of reaching and sustaining higher speeds with relative efficiency (and safety).

Exactly. 120 km/h is really slow (for us). Besides, most Germans will happily cruise at 120-130 km/h; nobody is forcing them to drive faster. And the majority of drivers tend to stay in the 120-130 km/h region. In short, very few people actually speed. There is no need for a blanket 120 km/h speed limit. But since Germany is very lefty at the moment those few lefty politicians calling for speed limits want them out of ideological reasons, and probably also to annoy some motorists with powerful cars.
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12,000 RPM

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12,000 RPM

Quote from: NomisR on August 14, 2019, 10:09:25 AM
:rolleyes:

It's almost as if we should stop talking about everything here because it's useless.
Every thread here doesn't have to be an opportunity for you to whine about the govt
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NomisR

Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 14, 2019, 11:38:19 AM
This is actually an internal matter. If the EU had their way we'd have been bored to death at 120-130 km/h for decades now.

What the freedom to bear arms is to Americans is our freedom to speed. And if this gets attacked by all the Greenies etc. then to me it feels like one of the few freedoms we can still enjoy in this increasingly restrictive country is on the line. I love driving fast but I don't do it all the time. I actually do tend to cruise at 130-140 km/h a lot which is a nice blend between speed and good gas mileage. But 120 km/h is just slow.

That's usually my cruising speed as well.  How strict are you guys on going over the speed limit? 

cawimmer430

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
:confused: :banghead: :nutty: :facepalm:

Well it's true. You guys grew up with the notion that it's ok to own weapons as long as you use them responsibly.

The same is true of Germans and speeding on the Autobahn. Now this freedom is under threat thanks to greenhouse emissions hysteria, a popular Green Party and a very lefty political scene.
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SJ_GTI

Quote from: NomisR on August 14, 2019, 11:46:54 AM
That's usually my cruising speed as well.  How strict are you guys on going over the speed limit?

This is important to keep in mind as well.

Here in NJ, most highways are actually 65 mph (105 kph), but functionally you will not get bothered as long as you keep it under ~75 mph (~120 kph). On the turnpike (main highway between Philly and NYC) the pace of traffic is usually in the range of 80-90 mph (130-145 kph).

Laconian

Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 14, 2019, 11:48:39 AM
Well it's true. You guys grew up with the notion that it's ok to own weapons as long as you use them responsibly.

The same is true of Germans and speeding on the Autobahn. Now this freedom is under threat thanks to greenhouse emissions hysteria, a popular Green Party and a very lefty political scene.

IMO Germans are better at shouldering the responsibility than we are with guns. The rules of driving in Germany are strict, but you guys rise to the challenge and treat it with respect.

There are many responsible gun owners in the USA, but there are a lot of fuckups who abuse the right too, and they don't suffer consequences for it because freedom.
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cawimmer430

Quote from: Laconian on August 14, 2019, 09:59:23 PM
IMO Germans are better at shouldering the responsibility than we are with guns. The rules of driving in Germany are strict, but you guys rise to the challenge and treat it with respect.

That is for the most part true, but as you said it takes a few to ruin a party.

We do have issues with severe speeders (even in speed-limited zones), but they are the minority. In my opinion these drivers should simply be fined and given driving bans of one or two months - and more if they are repeat offenders.

Then there are the slow pokes who on three lane highways for some reason feel the need to occupy the middle lane and ruin the flow of traffic. The rules are simple: the Autobahn is essentially one lane, the right lane. The left (or middle lane) is to be used solely for overtaking. If you're driving very fast you are still expected to use the right lane. These middle-lane drivers tend to drive very slow and also abruptly change lanes without signaling. They are dangerous. And these are the people who probably demand speed limits because their crap driving creates dangerous situations and they wonder why the guy behind them is so pissed off at them...
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NomisR

Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 15, 2019, 03:38:41 AM
That is for the most part true, but as you said it takes a few to ruin a party.

We do have issues with severe speeders (even in speed-limited zones), but they are the minority. In my opinion these drivers should simply be fined and given driving bans of one or two months - and more if they are repeat offenders.

Then there are the slow pokes who on three lane highways for some reason feel the need to occupy the middle lane and ruin the flow of traffic. The rules are simple: the Autobahn is essentially one lane, the right lane. The left (or middle lane) is to be used solely for overtaking. If you're driving very fast you are still expected to use the right lane. These middle-lane drivers tend to drive very slow and also abruptly change lanes without signaling. They are dangerous. And these are the people who probably demand speed limits because their crap driving creates dangerous situations and they wonder why the guy behind them is so pissed off at them...

So what's the left most lane for? 

cawimmer430

Quote from: NomisR on August 15, 2019, 08:08:49 AM
So what's the left most lane for? 

For overtaking a car in the middle lane that is overtaking a slower car on the right lane. ;)

Overtaking on the right is illegal and severely punished.


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MexicoCityM3

120 km/h is dog slow. I get bored to death driving on american highways and I usually drive at 80-85 mph. Even that is excruciating.

Here I can cruise at 180-220kph on the open highway.
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Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on August 15, 2019, 11:25:32 AM
120 km/h is dog slow. I get bored to death driving on american highways and I usually drive at 80-85 mph. Even that is excruciating.

Here I can cruise at 180-220kph on the open highway.

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NomisR

Quote from: cawimmer430 on August 15, 2019, 09:36:37 AM
For overtaking a car in the middle lane that is overtaking a slower car on the right lane. ;)

Overtaking on the right is illegal and severely punished.




In the US, if you don't overtake on the right, you're not passing anyone.  Nobody is letting you pass, they will lane camp all day long right driving side by side with another car immediately to their right.  I don't know how many one can drive like that and be comfortable that your escape route is blocked but apparently they are.  They would effectively create a rolling roadblock and not give a shit. 

I simply drive in the right time at all time only get into other lanes if necessary.  I pass on the right because those people are driving way too slow anyways.  There's no negative consequence for driving too slow in the passing lane.

cawimmer430

Quote from: NomisR on August 15, 2019, 02:19:25 PM
In the US, if you don't overtake on the right, you're not passing anyone.  Nobody is letting you pass, they will lane camp all day long right driving side by side with another car immediately to their right.  I don't know how many one can drive like that and be comfortable that your escape route is blocked but apparently they are.  They would effectively create a rolling roadblock and not give a shit. 

I simply drive in the right time at all time only get into other lanes if necessary.  I pass on the right because those people are driving way too slow anyways.  There's no negative consequence for driving too slow in the passing lane.

Here there are consequences for hogging the left lane and for overtaking on the right. The left lanes are really only intended for overtaking slower right-lane traffic. Essentially the Autobahn is a "one lane highway". Of course, during traffic jams it is expected that you occupy all lanes but are ready to produce a rescue lane for ambulances etc. in case of an emergency. And that's something which people have forgotten here. I'm telling you guys the new generation of German drivers are morons.
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12,000 RPM

It's not legal to left lane camp here, but nobody enforces it

I drive about 400 miles a week and maybe see 1-2 people pulled over a month
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CaminoRacer

On rural freeways the lane discipline is much better - people generally stay out of the left lane or move over if you come up behind them. It's the 3+ lane urban freeways that have 0 lane discipline. Here in Utah I frequently watch people get on the freeway and immediately move all the way to the left, even if the right lanes are completely clear. :facepalm:
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Xer0

In Chicago and the surrounding highways about 10/15 miles out of the city there is usually way too much traffic and every lane is usually packed.  As you start getting out of the city and the highways clear up, you start seeing 4 lane highways with people camping the left lanes and its just so frustrating.  In general, European drivers are much better than American drivers, although they can also be much more aggressive.

Morris Minor

Quote from: Xer0 on August 16, 2019, 09:33:26 AM
In Chicago and the surrounding highways about 10/15 miles out of the city there is usually way too much traffic and every lane is usually packed.  As you start getting out of the city and the highways clear up, you start seeing 4 lane highways with people camping the left lanes and its just so frustrating.  In general, European drivers are much better than American drivers, although they can also be much more aggressive.
The chaos caused by left lane camping can be really dangerous.
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12,000 RPM

Quote from: Xer0 on August 16, 2019, 09:33:26 AM
In Chicago and the surrounding highways about 10/15 miles out of the city there is usually way too much traffic and every lane is usually packed.  As you start getting out of the city and the highways clear up, you start seeing 4 lane highways with people camping the left lanes and its just so frustrating.  In general, European drivers are much better than American drivers, although they can also be much more aggressive.
I respect European drivers' aggression as I know there is skill to back it. Europe was the only place I was nowhere near the fastest driver on the road. It was actually really relaxing
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BimmerM3

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 16, 2019, 07:14:30 AM
It's not legal to left lane camp here, but nobody enforces it

I drive about 400 miles a week and maybe see 1-2 people pulled over a month

GA had a similar law but IIRC, it was only enforceable if the offender was going under the speed limit, which is almost never the case with urban left lane campers because the speed limits are too low to begin with.