Wife and I were watching "The Santa Clause", there's a first gen Taurus SHO in it. That's truly my "dream to restore and drive" car.

But she asked if I had to pick one car and drive it the rest of my life what would I pick- answer right now is Maverick....

Quote from: Submariner2 on December 17, 2023, 11:43:08 AMWhich makes sense - 99% of Silverado drivers will drive off road in any serious fashion.

Most crossovers have as much or more ground clearance... So once again not a whole lot of truck in a modern truck

Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2023, 08:28:45 AMwell, according to C&D the average Silverado 4x4 that most people buy only has 8.08" of ground clearance

That's because you apparently don't understand how they measure ground clearance. They measure it at the lowest point, which on a truck is typically the bottom of the rear pumpkin.

The real, effective ground clearance is much greater than that. Hence a Subaru with 8" of ground clearance will get stuck with it's flat bottom way before a truck with "8 inches" of ground clearance does, because it actually has a good deal more "effective" ground clearance between the ground and the frame and its other dangling bits.

Look underneath a truck some time. Might surprise you how much clearance there is...you can lay on a dolly and get under a truck without a jack...good luck doing that with an 8" Subie or similar CUV/ute/thing.

Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2023, 01:15:05 PMMost crossovers have as much or more ground clearance... So once again not a whole lot of truck in a modern truck

You have no clue what you're talking about. See above post.

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2023, 02:34:51 PMThat's because you apparently don't understand how they measure ground clearance. They measure it at the lowest point, which on a truck is typically the bottom of the rear pumpkin.

The real, effective ground clearance is much greater than that. Hence a Subaru with 8" of ground clearance will get stuck with it's flat bottom way before a truck with "8 inches" of ground clearance does, because it actually has a good deal more "effective" ground clearance between the ground and the frame and its other dangling bits.

Look underneath a truck some time. Might surprise you how much clearance there is...you can lay on a dolly and get under a truck without a jack...good luck doing that with an 8" Subie or similar CUV/ute/thing.

It's the front air dam that all non "offroad" edition trucks now come with for better fuel mileage

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2023, 02:34:51 PMThe real, effective ground clearance is much greater than that. 

Definitely

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2023, 02:34:51 PMThat's because you apparently don't understand how they measure ground clearance. They measure it at the lowest point, which on a truck is typically the bottom of the rear pumpkin.

The real, effective ground clearance is much greater than that. Hence a Subaru with 8" of ground clearance will get stuck with it's flat bottom way before a truck with "8 inches" of ground clearance does, because it actually has a good deal more "effective" ground clearance between the ground and the frame and its other dangling bits.

Look underneath a truck some time. Might surprise you how much clearance there is...you can lay on a dolly and get under a truck without a jack...good luck doing that with an 8" Subie or similar CUV/ute/thing.

When the ground clearance is 8" but the approach angle is 15%

Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2023, 02:48:29 PMIt's the front air dam that all non "offroad" edition trucks now come with for better fuel mileage

That's a big part of it, but even if you were to remove the dam you'd still be left with a truck that doesn't have much clearance.  And that is fine because that truck isn't likely going to need those 8" of ground clearance.

Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2023, 01:15:05 PMMost crossovers have as much or more ground clearance... So once again not a whole lot of truck in a modern truck

Eh...I'm old enough to remember Chevy C/K's and RAM 250's and F-series before they became F2150 sooper doodie doolies with 11" skyjacker kits.  Maybe some of them had the off road package but a lot of old work trucks were strictly for asphalt or well maintained dirt roads.  Nothing wrong with that because it's what they were built for: farms, job sites, etc.

There is a MotorWeek retro review of some mid/late 80's 2 door hardtop (could have been a Yukon or the Blazer before it downsized) and it was mentioned that it only had 8 or 9" of clearance (which John Davis seemed to think was more than enough).

Quote from: r0tor on December 17, 2023, 02:48:29 PMIt's the front air dam that all non "offroad" edition trucks now come with for better fuel mileage

Congrats on being focused on one piece of plastic. You have no clue what you're talking about.

Quote from: Submariner2 on December 17, 2023, 06:02:41 PMWhen the ground clearance is 8" but the approach angle is 15%

My god, none of you have ever driven more than a dirt road. This forum saddens me when it thinks a Subaru has as much clearance as a truck.

Quote from: Submariner2 on December 17, 2023, 06:02:41 PMWhen the ground clearance is 8" but the approach angle is 15%

Good luck in a snow storm, bud. That 8" Subie/CUV will be stuck way before the "8"" truck. lol

You guys seriously have no idea. It's kind of scary how retarded this conversation is.

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2023, 09:09:37 PMCongrats on being focused on one piece of plastic. You have no clue what you're talking about.

So your cool with a truck that is effectively a snowplow for crossovers... So rugged

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 17, 2023, 09:17:36 PMGood luck in a snow storm, bud. That 8" Subie/CUV will be stuck way before the "8"" truck. lol

You guys seriously have no idea. It's kind of scary how retarded this conversation is.

I think you and I are in agreement about ground clearance and which vehicle would perform better in the snow...I was making a joke about the horrible approach (and departure) angles on those Outbacks and Foresters.

Quote from: r0tor on December 18, 2023, 05:40:40 AMSo your cool with a truck that is effectively a snowplow for crossovers... So rugged

...yup. Because that truck won't get stuck. Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. Shift those goal posts as much as you want. You've never wheeled in your life and it is so obvious.

Hopefully to get to your goal posts the snow isn't draper than 8.1"

I also guess I missed the message when driving a truck with next to no weight on one axle was better than an SAuV with similar tires/clearances with 4 relatively evenly loaded tires ... Keep wheeling though

I literally won't even respond. The amount of mental retardation here is strong.

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 18, 2023, 06:59:21 PMI literally won't even respond. The amount of mental retardation here is strong.

I blocked him a long time ago. Better to let him just scream into the void.

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 19, 2023, 03:18:40 PM

That was the prototype from 3 years ago


https://youtu.be/BGDOKD7ZZqI?si=jPozV7R3_fuCVclx

This is the new one now.

...

I finally watched the Hagerty video.

Was Randy's kart a single gear instead of shifter kart? I saw it's a Tonykart but they offer both. A shifter kart should have been faster than what they showed.

I'm extremely skeptical of steer-by-wire. Not because of reliability or anything, I just dislike video game force feedback. I don't want my vehicle to feel like a video game. It's been a trope since the R35 GT-R came out, but steer-by-wire with FFB is 100% video game.

The lack of a rearview mirror is annoying too.

48V electronics is nice. In typical Tesla fashion, they do some things really well and then wrap it in some really unnecessary crap. I think the best vehicles will continue to be more conventional ones that get some trickle-down tech from Tesla (and better build quality)

I'm dubious about the reliability of CT's SBW. Tesla's relaxed attitude towards QA with FSD Beta makes me dubious that they'll have tested it enough before pushing it out to the public. The concept behind SBW might be established and considered "reliable", but this particular implementation of SBW is brand new. There are going to be bugs, because V1 software always has bugs.

My truck has electric steering with vibration when lane warming is turned on. Because it's Ford they went with traditional steering shaft, but it's amazing how well the power steering works and feels without being too "boosted" like some minivans etc...

I agree I wouldn't want current SBW solutions. Eventually it will get good enough.

If you have the audacity to drive 75mph with climate control on, expect 800Wh/mi. That's an XL charge session after an hour and a half of driving.

It's deep in the zone of "nonsensical truck" zone of spiraling mass and inefficiency.

https://electrek.co/2024/01/04/tesla-cybertruck-drives-254-miles-in-highway-range-test/

46 degrees. 254 mile range. The pack is 123kWh, so we're talking 2mi/kWh or 500Wh/mi. That's far better than 800Wh/mi, but the overall range still significantly underperforms versus Rivian or even the Ford F150 Lightning.

It seems to be in line with the rivals actually.  There is no answer for piss poor EV truck efficiency.  It's all a numbers game.  The EV drivetrain is super efficient, therefore friction and drag are the prime drivers of EV truck efficiency.  They are massive boxes with tires not optimized for mileage.

Nobody can solve that problem as there is literally no answer.

A coworker basically told me in his Lightening for every hour you drive on the highway, you need a half hour to charge.

They need to lighten the Lightning.